Digital Mars - digitalmars.D - TDPL a bad idea?

"John D" <jdean googling.com> writes:

Did anyone watch Shark Tank on TV this week? Captain Ice Cream was 
rejected by all of the sharks and sent packing because he wanted to sell 
a franchise that wasn't. One of the sharks said to him something along 
the lines of, "a franchise offering is a package deal for a product that 
is a well-oiled machine... all the kinks worked out". Or was it the Legal 
Grind, coffee shop lawyering, franchise that they said that to? Of the 
Legal Grind, the sharks said: so you've been doing this for umpteen years 
and haven't made any real money and now you want to offer a franchise?

Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
kill trees?

"TDPL: we want money"? Msg me when it is "TDPL: the well-oiled machine". 
(Note I didn't say "the well-oiled MONEY machine).

Jan 30 2010

Bane <branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> writes:

 
 Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
 internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
 in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
 unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
 offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
 to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
 don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
 obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
 time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
 kill trees?
 


This might actually be a good point. I have a thought or 2 about it. A reason
to save trees:
 - TDPL is changing, true, and online format is much easier to update,
navigate, search, and eco friendly. TDPL would be obsolete (for current version
of language) before it is published.
 - I guess, those couple of trees destined to give its bodies to make paper for
TDPL will do more good for the world making O2.
 - and authors of it won't be corrupted by money they could earn by selling it,
so they can continue to give their knowledge and time for free 

On the other hand:
 - some people love to hold paper in ther hands and read while not in front of
computer. there are many much more comfortable and healthier places you can do
that.
 - some people will find it useful no matter it is not the latest release, same
as D1. every tool has its user. not everybody will use most current version of
language, as some are happy with old one as well.
 - 'to make money' is just as valid reason for publishing and selling TDPL as
is  'to make C++ programmers life easier' for making and giving away D language
for free for all people, including damn leeching bitching tree lovers
 - you can easily kill a tree - it doesn't kills back. try that will polar
bears.
 - TDPL wont have 3e17+ copies to print, so you can relax. amazon forests wont
disapear thanks to andrei and walter (green peace wont organize protests to
destroy D as eco hazard)
 - they can always use recycled paper for printing, like old c++ manuals  (not
to mention PHP, as it is already more used as toilet paper in its original form)

that covers the most of it...

Jan 31 2010

"Lars T. Kyllingstad" <public kyllingen.NOSPAMnet> writes:

Bane wrote:
 Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
 internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
 in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
 unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
 offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
 to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
 don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
 obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
 time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
 kill trees?


 This might actually be a good point. I have a thought or 2 about it. A reason
to save trees:
  - TDPL is changing, true, and online format is much easier to update,
navigate, search, and eco friendly. TDPL would be obsolete (for current version
of language) before it is published.


When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen.  That's the whole point.

-Lars

Jan 31 2010

Bane <branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> writes:

Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:

 Bane wrote:
 Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
 internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
 in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
 unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
 offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
 to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
 don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
 obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
 time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
 kill trees?


 This might actually be a good point. I have a thought or 2 about it. A reason
to save trees:
  - TDPL is changing, true, and online format is much easier to update,
navigate, search, and eco friendly. TDPL would be obsolete (for current version
of language) before it is published.


 When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen.  That's the whole point.
 
 -Lars


Aha! What about... D3 ? :)

Jan 31 2010

BCS <none anon.com> writes:

Hello Bane,

 Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:
 
 When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen.  That's the whole point.
 
 -Lars
 


 


TDPL 2e

And FWIW, I'm in the lets kill trees camp.

p.s. Why doesn't anyone ever bring up the power requirements for reading 
digital docs? Making a book is a one time investment, reading a file requiters 
continues power.

--

<IXOYE><

Jan 31 2010

Yigal Chripun <yigal100 gmail.com> writes:

On 01/02/2010 01:56, BCS wrote:
 Hello Bane,

 Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:

 When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen. That's the whole point.

 -Lars




 TDPL 2e

 And FWIW, I'm in the lets kill trees camp.

 p.s. Why doesn't anyone ever bring up the power requirements for reading
 digital docs? Making a book is a one time investment, reading a file
 requiters continues power.

 --

 <IXOYE><


Don't go the power requirements route. This will just bring endless 
discussion:
1) what about green power - like using solar energy?
2) what about using recycled paper for books?
3) what about the pollution caused by manufacturing the PC and batteries 
if it's a laptop?
4) what about the pollution caused by manufacturing books?
...

Personally, I prefer paper for stuff that's meant for long-term use and 
digital for one-offs. newspaper is a prime example of what not to do - 
either you pollute by printing daily on new paper or you provide a 
crappy experience with recycled paper. This is IMO a prime example where 
digital is better. YMMV

Feb 01 2010

Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:

Yigal Chripun wrote:
 Personally, I prefer paper for stuff that's meant for long-term use and 
 digital for one-offs. newspaper is a prime example of what not to do - 
 either you pollute by printing daily on new paper or you provide a 
 crappy experience with recycled paper. This is IMO a prime example where 
 digital is better. YMMV


I've made a large effort to reduce my file cabinets and boxes full of 
old papers to digital form. For me it's an issue of trying to get free 
of clutter, and have the stuff in an easily searchable form.

I'm happy to no longer have the mess that subscribing to the newspaper 
brings. I've also run huge piles of my old magazines through the scanner 
and then into the recycling.

Feb 01 2010

"Simen kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:27:39 +0100, Bane  
<branimir.milosavljevic gmail.com> wrote:

 Lars T. Kyllingstad Wrote:

 Bane wrote:
 Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on  




 internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any  




 in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and
 unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the  




 offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's  




 to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if  




 don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already
 obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from  




 time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and  




 kill trees?


 This might actually be a good point. I have a thought or 2 about it.  


  - TDPL is changing, true, and online format is much easier to  


 current version of language) before it is published.

 When TDPL is published D2 will be frozen.  That's the whole point.

 -Lars


 Aha! What about... D3 ? :)


Will probably come about eventually, but it is an expressed goal to have
a long period to stabilize and polish D2 first.

-- 
Simen

Jan 31 2010

"Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:

"John D" <jdean googling.com> wrote in message 
news:hk381s$1es1$1 digitalmars.com...
 Did anyone watch Shark Tank on TV this week? Captain Ice Cream was 
 rejected by all of the sharks and sent packing because he wanted to sell a 
 franchise that wasn't. One of the sharks said to him something along the 
 lines of, "a franchise offering is a package deal for a product that is a 
 well-oiled machine... all the kinks worked out". Or was it the Legal 
 Grind, coffee shop lawyering, franchise that they said that to? Of the 
 Legal Grind, the sharks said: so you've been doing this for umpteen years 
 and haven't made any real money and now you want to offer a franchise?

 Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on the 
 internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see any value 
 in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly changing and 
 unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz save the trees and 
 offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to pay for it? It's easy 
 to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is far from that if ever). I 
 don't see this thing selling in bookstores. A hard copy of an already 
 obsolete specification? If it's just charitable contribution from long 
 time afficionados, why not just .org and ask for contributions and not 
 kill trees?

 "TDPL: we want money"? Msg me when it is "TDPL: the well-oiled machine". 
 (Note I didn't say "the well-oiled MONEY machine).


Ordinarily I wouldn't think much of this, but considering some of this guy's 
most recent postings over in "Google's Go", I'd say it's about time to 
consider instituting a NG ban system. We were (maybe) able to chase away 
superdan, but who knows how persistent other such trolls like this one will 
prove to be.

Jan 31 2010

"John D" <jdean googling.com> writes:

"Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> wrote in message 
news:hk3kq6$268i$1 digitalmars.com...
 "John D" <jdean googling.com> wrote in message 
 news:hk381s$1es1$1 digitalmars.com...
 Did anyone watch Shark Tank on TV this week? Captain Ice Cream was 
 rejected by all of the sharks and sent packing because he wanted to 
 sell a franchise that wasn't. One of the sharks said to him something 
 along the lines of, "a franchise offering is a package deal for a 
 product that is a well-oiled machine... all the kinks worked out". Or 
 was it the Legal Grind, coffee shop lawyering, franchise that they 
 said that to? Of the Legal Grind, the sharks said: so you've been 
 doing this for umpteen years and haven't made any real money and now 
 you want to offer a franchise?

 Why a killing of trees for a manual that changes daily and can be on 
 the internet? What is the point of TDPL? To make money? I don't see 
 any value in a set of pages that are a manual for a constantly 
 changing and unestablished computer programming language. Can't yaz 
 save the trees and offer it for sale on the web to anyone who wants to 
 pay for it? It's easy to setup a PayPal website (though I think D is 
 far from that if ever). I don't see this thing selling in bookstores. 
 A hard copy of an already obsolete specification? If it's just 
 charitable contribution from long time afficionados, why not just .org 
 and ask for contributions and not kill trees?

 "TDPL: we want money"? Msg me when it is "TDPL: the well-oiled 
 machine". (Note I didn't say "the well-oiled MONEY machine).


 Ordinarily I wouldn't think much of this, but considering some of this 
 guy's most recent postings over in "Google's Go", I'd say it's about 
 time to consider instituting a NG ban system. We were (maybe) able to 
 chase away superdan, but who knows how persistent other such trolls 
 like this one will prove to be.

Jan 31 2010

=?UTF-8?B?QWxpIMOHZWhyZWxp?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:

John D wrote:

 What is your name and address? 


I was considering about commenting on your missing identity.

If you want me to take you seriously, you must show me that you are 
brave enough to use your real name. Only then you can start learning how 
empty your self-proclaimed C++ understanding is. (I promise that I will 
teach you.)

Don't hide behind acronyms either: If you are not brave enough to expand 
what you mean by "TDPL", I will not take you seriously. Go on! Do it! 
You can expand it...

Ali Çehreli
"a real name :p"

Jan 31 2010

Justin Johansson <no spam.com> writes:

Ali Çehreli wrote:
 John D wrote:
 
 What is your name and address? 


 I was considering about commenting on your missing identity.
 
 If you want me to take you seriously, you must show me that you are 
 brave enough to use your real name. Only then you can start learning how 
 empty your self-proclaimed C++ understanding is. (I promise that I will 
 teach you.)
 
 Don't hide behind acronyms either: If you are not brave enough to expand 
 what you mean by "TDPL", I will not take you seriously. Go on! Do it! 
 You can expand it...
 
 Ali Çehreli
 "a real name :p"


Speaking about undisclosed identity, readers of this NG will no doubt
have some strong views on these new, almost-first-in-the-western-world,
laws that have just come into effect in South Australia.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/02/2807584.htm

Rann Government curbs internet debate

During election periods, anyone posting (Internet) comment or blogs must 
publish their real name and postcode.

Err, umm, my name is Jo Hansson, sir.

Feb 02 2010