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digitalmars.D.announce - Win a Free Learn to Tango With D Ebook

reply Mike Parker <aldacron71 yahoo.com> writes:
If you'd like a chance to *legally* get your hands on a free electronic 
copy of Learn to Tango with D, head on over to The One With D and enter 
the contest. All you need to do is post a comment on this post:

http://dblog.aldacron.net/2008/01/19/learn-to-tango-with-d-contest/

Follow the rules outlined there and you'll be eligible. Good luck :)
Jan 19 2008
next sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:48:06 +0200, Alex J. Ivasyuv
<siegerstein openlib.org.ua> wrote:
 

 http://...
 http://...


 
 That's disgusting.
 
 Вот козёл.
 


It is sad.  But why does everyone keep re-posting the link in their replies?

The odd thing is that those two links seem to be the only things on the 
site.  I thought it was some big book pirating ring, but it seems to be 
  just those two D books and nothing else.

--bb
Jan 19 2008
next sibling parent John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:


 Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:48:06 +0200, Alex J. Ivasyuv
 <siegerstein openlib.org.ua> wrote:
 

 http://...
 http://...


 
 That's disgusting.
 
 Вот козёл.
 


 
 It is sad.  But why does everyone keep re-posting the link in their
 replies?
 


Good point. I wasn't thinking. :(
Jan 19 2008
prev sibling parent reply "Vladimir Panteleev" <thecybershadow gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:36:07 +0200, Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com>
wrote:


 Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:48:06 +0200, Alex J. Ivasyuv
<siegerstein openlib.org.ua> wrote:


 http://...
 http://...


 That's disgusting.

 Вот козёл.


 It is sad.  But why does everyone keep re-posting the link in their replies?


Personally I don't mind my posts getting deleted as well when whoever's in
charge of this news server gets around to this :)


 The odd thing is that those two links seem to be the only things on the
 site.  I thought it was some big book pirating ring, but it seems to be
   just those two D books and nothing else.


Yeah - and the second book isn't even "pirated" (e-book distribution is
permitted, the PDF is linked to from digitalmars.com even).

-- 
Best regards,
 Vladimir                          mailto:thecybershadow gmail.com
Jan 19 2008
next sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:36:07 +0200, Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com>
wrote:
 

 Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:48:06 +0200, Alex J. Ivasyuv <siegerstein ...> wrote:


 http://...
 http://...


 That's disgusting.

 Вот козёл.


 It is sad.  But why does everyone keep re-posting the link in their replies?


 
 Personally I don't mind my posts getting deleted as well when whoever's in
charge of this news server gets around to this :)
 

 The odd thing is that those two links seem to be the only things on the
 site.  I thought it was some big book pirating ring, but it seems to be
   just those two D books and nothing else.


 
 Yeah - and the second book isn't even "pirated" (e-book distribution is
permitted, the PDF is linked to from digitalmars.com even).
 


Hmm.  So maybe it's a case of a slightly misguided D enthusiast just 
trying to be helpful, rather than a malicious attempt to hurt sales of 
the Tango crew's book.  If so then presumably Mr. Ivasyuv will take down 
the link when he realizes the fuss it's causing.

--bb
Jan 19 2008
parent reply John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:


 
 Hmm.  So maybe it's a case of a slightly misguided D enthusiast just
 trying to be helpful, rather than a malicious attempt to hurt sales of
 the Tango crew's book.  If so then presumably Mr. Ivasyuv will take down
 the link when he realizes the fuss it's causing.
 
 --bb



That would be the non-confrontional way of looking at it. 

But then it still doesn't explain why he would respond to Mike's thread by
posting this link. It's almost like saying:  "Don't mind Mike's offer;
here's the real deal without the bother or the price".  Hmm... yes, maybe
that's considered helpful in some places. :P

But we may not assume that the motive was malicious or helpful, of
course...because...well we aren't supposed to judge motives here ;). but I
think it's completely fair to treat it as serious so that the message is
clear that this is not acceptable.

So far, even this little discussion seems to have done little to convince
Alex to cancel his message.

-JJR
Jan 19 2008
parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron71 yahoo.com> writes:
John Reimer wrote:

 Bill Baxter wrote:
 

 Hmm.  So maybe it's a case of a slightly misguided D enthusiast just
 trying to be helpful, rather than a malicious attempt to hurt sales of
 the Tango crew's book.  If so then presumably Mr. Ivasyuv will take down
 the link when he realizes the fuss it's causing.

 --bb


 
 
 That would be the non-confrontional way of looking at it. 
 
 But then it still doesn't explain why he would respond to Mike's thread by
 posting this link. It's almost like saying:  "Don't mind Mike's offer;
 here's the real deal without the bother or the price".  Hmm... yes, maybe
 that's considered helpful in some places. :P


Someone tried to be just as 'helpful' in a blog comment when I first 
posted about the contest a few days ago. I emailed him after I deleted 
the comment and he was quite friendly in his reply. I suppose some 
people just view the world through different (copyright-filtering) glasses.
Jan 20 2008
parent reply John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Mike Parker wrote:


 John Reimer wrote:

 Bill Baxter wrote:
 

 Hmm.  So maybe it's a case of a slightly misguided D enthusiast just
 trying to be helpful, rather than a malicious attempt to hurt sales of
 the Tango crew's book.  If so then presumably Mr. Ivasyuv will take down
 the link when he realizes the fuss it's causing.

 --bb


 
 
 That would be the non-confrontional way of looking at it.
 
 But then it still doesn't explain why he would respond to Mike's thread
 by
 posting this link. It's almost like saying:  "Don't mind Mike's offer;
 here's the real deal without the bother or the price".  Hmm... yes, maybe
 that's considered helpful in some places. :P


 
 Someone tried to be just as 'helpful' in a blog comment when I first
 posted about the contest a few days ago. I emailed him after I deleted
 the comment and he was quite friendly in his reply. I suppose some
 people just view the world through different (copyright-filtering)
 glasses.



Yes, that philosophy of taking before it's given does pervade some cultures
(in some places, it used to be called "stealing")... such redefinition
of "liberty" does little good to encourage good workmanship. But the
concept seems to have disappeared in some parts of the world.

I am all for sharing hard work with others, but it's much better when the
that creation is given of freewill... not forcefully taken.  The former
creates a community of trust and appreciation, and the latter (can
engender) resentment and frustration, combined with a loss of economy and
motivation.  

The fact that you authors are donating the earnings on this book to the
Tango project has been an example of freewill contribution of sorts.  I
think that should stand as a good testimony of your intentions.  No one
should demand more.  This isn't just about copyright... this also about
respect and appreciation of another's hard work. 

-JJR
Jan 20 2008
parent reply downs <default_357-line yahoo.de> writes:
John Reimer wrote:

 Yes, that philosophy of taking before it's given does pervade some cultures
 (in some places, it used to be called "stealing")... such redefinition
 of "liberty" does little good to encourage good workmanship.


And such redefinition of "stealing" does little to help your point
in my eyes. I can actually sympathize with the Tango team; nobody likes having
his copyright infringed. But that's all that it is, infringement, and every
time you call it stealing a little part of the English language withers and
dies.

Stealing is defined as taking something without its owner's consent. The point
of this is that after it was taken, the original owner *doesn't have it any
more*.

Copyright infringement is the copying of something without the copyright
holder's
consent, the difference being that the copyright holder doesn't lose it.

So it's not stealing.

The Copyright Lobby would very much like to redefine copyright infringement as
stealing, because, well, "copyright infringement" doesn't sound very criminal
and "pirates" actually sounds cool :)

But that's purely a PR tactic - copyright infringement has, and never had,
anything to do with "stealing".

People have argued that every time you infringe the copyright of a commercial
product, you "steal" a sale from the copyright holders.

I put "steal" in quotes because it is very much in question if you can steal an
immaterial concept that hasn't even occured yet.

Nothing wrong with arguing against copyright infringement, but please call it
by its proper name.

 --downs
Jan 21 2008
parent John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
downs wrote:

 John Reimer wrote:

 Yes, that philosophy of taking before it's given does pervade some cultures
 (in some places, it used to be called "stealing")... such redefinition
 of "liberty" does little good to encourage good workmanship.


 
 And such redefinition of "stealing" does little to help your point
 in my eyes. I can actually sympathize with the Tango team; nobody likes having
 his copyright infringed. But that's all that it is, infringement, and every
 time you call it stealing a little part of the English language withers and
dies.
 
 Stealing is defined as taking something without its owner's consent. The point
 of this is that after it was taken, the original owner *doesn't have it any
more*.
 
 Copyright infringement is the copying of something without the copyright
holder's
 consent, the difference being that the copyright holder doesn't lose it.
 
 So it's not stealing.
 
 The Copyright Lobby would very much like to redefine copyright infringement as
 stealing, because, well, "copyright infringement" doesn't sound very criminal
 and "pirates" actually sounds cool :)
 
 But that's purely a PR tactic - copyright infringement has, and never had,
 anything to do with "stealing".
 
 People have argued that every time you infringe the copyright of a commercial
 product, you "steal" a sale from the copyright holders.
 
 I put "steal" in quotes because it is very much in question if you can steal an
 immaterial concept that hasn't even occured yet.
 
 Nothing wrong with arguing against copyright infringement, but please call it
 by its proper name.
 
  --downs



downs, you assume too much. :) If I say "steal", it's likely that I'm 
referring to actual property loss: in this case, assets lost as a result 
of loss sales... which classifies as a loss of property.

I'm not referring to copyright infringement (I never even mentioned 
that), which I'm sure could be debated with many arguments from both 
sides. Nor would I like to enter such a debate. My mind works a lot 
simpler than that. :)

-JJR
Jan 21 2008
prev sibling parent John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Vladimir Panteleev wrote:


 It is sad.  But why does everyone keep re-posting the link in their
 replies?


 
 Personally I don't mind my posts getting deleted as well when whoever's in
 charge of this news server gets around to this :)
 



Same here.



 The odd thing is that those two links seem to be the only things on the
 site.  I thought it was some big book pirating ring, but it seems to be
   just those two D books and nothing else.


 
 Yeah - and the second book isn't even "pirated" (e-book distribution is
 permitted, the PDF is linked to from digitalmars.com even).
 



Yes, I'm wondering how Alex got the impression that the Tango book should be
treated the same way? 

-JJR
Jan 19 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Alex J. Ivasyuv wrote:

 http://...
 http://openlib.org.ua/books/d_buch.pdf


Apparently, the first URL is not authorized by the book's copyright 
holders. So, I'm removing any posts with those url's in them. Feel free 
to discuss the issue here, but please do not quote the url's.
Jan 19 2008
parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Alex J. Ivasyuv wrote:

 http://...
 http://openlib.org.ua/books/d_buch.pdf


 
 Apparently, the first URL is not authorized by the book's copyright 
 holders. So, I'm removing any posts with those url's in them. Feel free 
 to discuss the issue here, but please do not quote the url's.


The mailing list archives have been edited to yank the url, but I left 
the posts otherwise intact.

Later,
Brad
Jan 19 2008
parent Mike Parker <aldacron71 yahoo.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:

 Alex J. Ivasyuv wrote:

 http://...
 http://openlib.org.ua/books/d_buch.pdf


 Apparently, the first URL is not authorized by the book's copyright 
 holders. So, I'm removing any posts with those url's in them. Feel 
 free to discuss the issue here, but please do not quote the url's.


 
 The mailing list archives have been edited to yank the url, but I left 
 the posts otherwise intact.
 
 Later,
 Brad


Thanks to both of you.
Jan 20 2008
prev sibling parent Clay Smith <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
Mike Parker wrote:

 If you'd like a chance to *legally* get your hands on a free electronic 
 copy of Learn to Tango with D, head on over to The One With D and enter 
 the contest. All you need to do is post a comment on this post:
 
 http://dblog.aldacron.net/2008/01/19/learn-to-tango-with-d-contest/
 
 Follow the rules outlined there and you'll be eligible. Good luck :)


Thanks, Mike. I posted my comment :)
Jan 20 2008