www.digitalmars.com         C & C++   DMDScript  

digitalmars.D.announce - From the D Blog: A Pattern for Head-mutable Structures

reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
Simen Kjærås outlines an approach to supporting head-mutable 
types in D without the need for compiler or language changes.

The blog:
https://dlang.org/blog/2020/06/25/a-pattern-for-head-mutable-structures/

Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hfkq5e/a_pattern_for_headmutable_structures_in_d/

I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

https://news.ycombinator.com/newest
Jun 25 2020
next sibling parent FeepingCreature <feepingcreature gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 Simen Kjærås outlines an approach to supporting head-mutable 
 types in D without the need for compiler or language changes.

 The blog:
 https://dlang.org/blog/2020/06/25/a-pattern-for-head-mutable-structures/

 Reddit:
 https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hfkq5e/a_pattern_for_headmutable_structures_in_d/

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


What about immutable structs? There is no possible head-mutable 
type for them.

Deprecate?
Jun 25 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent reply jmh530 <john.michael.hall gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 Simen Kjærås outlines an approach to supporting head-mutable 
 types in D without the need for compiler or language changes.

 [snip]


Good piece. I've been following the recent thread, but this 
really helped make some things clear.
Jun 25 2020
parent reply Nick Treleaven <nick geany.org> writes:
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 13:17:55 UTC, jmh530 wrote:

 Good piece. I've been following the recent thread, but this 
 really helped make some things clear.


Do you have a link to that thread (or title) please?
Jul 03 2020
parent Simen =?UTF-8?B?S2rDpnLDpXM=?= <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 3 July 2020 at 07:58:31 UTC, Nick Treleaven wrote:

 On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 13:17:55 UTC, jmh530 wrote:

 Good piece. I've been following the recent thread, but this 
 really helped make some things clear.


 Do you have a link to that thread (or title) please?


Pretty sure it's the stuff in std.v2020.algorithm 
(https://forum.dlang.org/post/rcqk4f$1dou$1 digitalmars.com). 
That discussion was part of the reason I got the post published 
right now. (the other reasons being I'd had it lying about for a 
long while, and a DConf 2020 presentation just wasn't going to 
happen)

--
   Simen
Jul 03 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Arun Chandrasekaran <aruncxy gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is 
clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. 
Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes 
down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at 
all.
Jun 25 2020
next sibling parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
wrote:


 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is 
 clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. 
 Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes 
 down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing 
 at all.


Upvotes aren't counted when you follow a direct link. So no, I 
won't be posting direct links.
Jun 25 2020
parent reply Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 06:14:48 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
 wrote:


 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is 
 clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. 
 Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking 
 goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than 
 nothing at all.


 Upvotes aren't counted when you follow a direct link. So no, I 
 won't be posting direct links.


Isn't it possible to just paste to the search results? 
https://hn.algolia.com/?q=A+pattern+for+head+mutable

Then presumably after clicking on comments you would be allowed 
to upvote.
Jun 25 2020
parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 06:52:58 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:


 Isn't it possible to just paste to the search results? 
 https://hn.algolia.com/?q=A+pattern+for+head+mutable

 Then presumably after clicking on comments you would be allowed 
 to upvote.


I wouldn't be so sure. See the "Anti-Voting Manipulation" section 
here:

https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented

"One popular "trick" for obfuscating voting manipulation on 
Hacker News is to link to the Hacker News's /newest page of new 
submissions (instead of a direct link which would otherwise make 
voting manipulation obvious), and asking friends to upvote the 
submission from that page. This trick doesn't actually work."

I suspect they track HTTP referrers and red flag multiple hits to 
the same link from the same referrer. However they do it, I would 
expect linking directly to search results is something they 
account for.
Jun 26 2020
next sibling parent reply Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 08:36:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I wouldn't be so sure. See the "Anti-Voting Manipulation" 
 section here:


you telling us to vote in a specific way is already gaming the 
system.

stop trying to manipulate their idiotic algorithm and just focus 
on delivering value to the community.

if the HN crowd likes it, there will be plenty of organic votes 
from their front page and the tiny handful you get from the D 
forum who actually manage to find the thing will be irrelevantly 
small.

if the HN crowd doesn't like it, our tiny handful isn't going to 
change anything.

Either way, the value of our manipulated votes is massively 
smaller than the value of us being able to participate in the 
comments in the event people there do say something.
Jun 26 2020
parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:04:27 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 08:36:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I wouldn't be so sure. See the "Anti-Voting Manipulation" 
 section here:


 you telling us to vote in a specific way is already gaming the 
 system.

 stop trying to manipulate their idiotic algorithm and just 
 focus on delivering value to the community.


I'm not telling you to vote a specific way. But if you do want to 
vote, I'd like your vote to count. I always type the blog post 
title in the search bar. Is it really that difficult?
Jun 26 2020
parent reply Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 14:02:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 But if you do want to vote, I'd like your vote to count.


I've seen no evidence that this strategy actually works. Appears 
totally random if a D post sticks around or not. And in a great 
many of these posts, people complain that they can't find the 
post at all which definitely doesn't help anything.

Are you sure it is worth it?
Jun 26 2020
parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 03:27:14 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 14:02:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 But if you do want to vote, I'd like your vote to count.


 I've seen no evidence that this strategy actually works. 
 Appears totally random if a D post sticks around or not. And in 
 a great many of these posts, people complain that they can't 
 find the post at all which definitely doesn't help anything.


I haven't seen anyone complaining they can't find the posts, just 
that I don't provide the links.

It's three steps (two on a 4k monitor):

1. Go to https://news.ycombinator.com
2. Hit the 'End' key to get to the search box at the bottom of 
the page
3. Enter all or part of the blog post title in the search box

After that, it's in the browser history. I have never not been 
able to find the post doing this.


 Are you sure it is worth it?


Like I said above, there are other factors that determine a 
post's success on HN and it's always hit or miss. So far, I 
haven't been able to turn up any foolproof advice. But those who 
have attempted to crack the secret all say that if people are 
following direct links, it will definitely hinder the post's 
performance and a miss is pretty much guaranteed. The FAQ says 
clearly:

"Can I ask people to upvote my submission?

No. Users should vote for a story because they personally find it 
intellectually interesting, not because someone has content to 
promote.

HN's software penalizes submissions, accounts, and sites that 
break this rule, so please don't."

Obviously, HN isn't going to scrape referring sites to check for 
people explicitly asking for upvotes. We know for certain that 
direct links disqualify upvotes, there's evidence to suggest that 
they account for indirect hits to a post from direct links to 
other parts of the site, and I can't find any information on if 
any of this is factored into the ranking algorithm in another way.

So yes, if people from this community want to monitor the 
comments on a HN site, I think it's worth it to ask them to take 
a couple of extra steps to do so in the interest of avoiding a 
negative impact on the post's ranking. If the post turns out to 
be a miss, it wasn't because of anything we did. If we do get 
lucky and hit the front page, then we've got more eyes on the 
post, our community members have more opportunity to share their 
experience, and we get (hopefully) a good PR day for D.
Jun 26 2020
prev sibling parent Johannes Pfau <nospam example.com> writes:
Am Fri, 26 Jun 2020 08:36:06 +0000 schrieb Mike Parker:


 I suspect they track HTTP referrers and red flag multiple hits to the
 same link from the same referrer. However they do it, I would expect
 linking directly to search results is something they account for.


Can't we just set Referrer-Policy: no-referrer in the web interface? 
Mailing list and newsgroup shouldn't be affected anyway.



-- 
Johannes
Jul 01 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent reply JN <666total wp.pl> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
wrote:

 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is 
 clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. 
 Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes 
 down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing 
 at all.


To be honest... I use D and don't really understand what the blog 
post is about (I don't really care much for const and such). I 
just glance through it and nothing catches my eye. I imagine any 
non-D user would completely ignore this blog post. It's a nice 
blog post for D users who are into this topic, but it's not 
something that would grab general attention. Also the premise of 
"D's const is hard to use, here's a way to deal with it" is not 
very optimistic. People here might think "wow, that's a nifty 
trick", but most outsiders would just think "wow that const thing 
is pain in the ass".

Here's some examples of blog posts that got popular on reddit 
last week. They're short enough and can be understood without 
deep understanding of the language:

https://jvns.ca/blog/2020/06/19/a-little-bit-of-plain-javascript-can-do-a-lot/
https://kristoff.it/blog/zig-colorblind-async-await/
Jun 26 2020
next sibling parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 07:35:17 UTC, JN wrote:

 Here's some examples of blog posts that got popular on reddit 
 last week. They're short enough and can be understood without 
 deep understanding of the language:


We've had long, D-specific posts be successful on reddit on more 
than one occasion. On HN as well. Sometimes they catch on, 
sometimes they don't. I always aim for an optimal window on 
reddit [1] and sometimes use an alternative, catchier title if it 
fits (I learned a valuable lesson with Liran's interview when I 
didn't include "the World's Fastest File System" in the reddit 
post -- I used it on HN and it hit big).

But I've noticed these days that most of our successful blog 
posts have a slow burn on reddit. They stay in the low teens for 
a day or so and then start to tick up. More interesting to me is 
the upvote *rate*. Anything over 75% makes me happy. As I write, 
Simen's post has 14 upvotes and an 82% upvote rate. And no D 
bashing in the comments. In my book, that's a successful post.

HN is always hit or miss. Unlike /r/programming, the HN front 
page changes rapidly. When a post catches on, it's always big. 
Otherwise it fades away quickly. From what I can tell it's mostly 
a matter of timing there. Also, if I don't share a post on HN, 
someone else inevitably will. And it's the same story: big or 
nothing.

[1] 
https://dashboard.laterforreddit.com/analysis/?subreddit=%2Fr%2Fprogramming&threshold=5
Jun 26 2020
prev sibling parent reply aberba <karabutaworld gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 07:35:17 UTC, JN wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
 wrote:

 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is 
 clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. 
 Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking 
 goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than 
 nothing at all.


 To be honest... I use D and don't really understand what the 
 blog post is about (I don't really care much for const and 
 such). I just glance through it and nothing catches my eye. I 
 imagine any non-D user would completely ignore this blog post. 
 It's a nice blog post for D users who are into this topic, but 
 it's not something that would grab general attention. Also the 
 premise of "D's const is hard to use, here's a way to deal with 
 it" is not very optimistic. People here might think "wow, 
 that's a nifty trick", but most outsiders would just think "wow 
 that const thing is pain in the ass".

 Here's some examples of blog posts that got popular on reddit 
 last week. They're short enough and can be understood without 
 deep understanding of the language:

 https://jvns.ca/blog/2020/06/19/a-little-bit-of-plain-javascript-can-do-a-lot/
 https://kristoff.it/blog/zig-colorblind-async-await/


For a while I thought it was just me but the D blog posts 
addressing D specific nifty tricks mostly don't interest me. 
Benchmarks, const, etc... :(. Probably it's just because of my 
area of interest or how they're articulated.

But stuff about a companies using D for this and that or a 
community member sharing their thing comes out very interesting.

I myself will be interested in doing some less technical but more 
practical posts. Probably comparing and contrasting packages, 
tools, community and stuff.

I'm curious what's happening in those D meetups. Are they still 
happening (online)?
Jun 26 2020
next sibling parent Johannes Loher <johannes.loher fg4f.de> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 09:30:47 UTC, aberba wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 07:35:17 UTC, JN wrote:

 [...]


 For a while I thought it was just me but the D blog posts 
 addressing D specific nifty tricks mostly don't interest me. 
 Benchmarks, const, etc... :(. Probably it's just because of my 
 area of interest or how they're articulated.

 But stuff about a companies using D for this and that or a 
 community member sharing their thing comes out very interesting.

 I myself will be interested in doing some less technical but 
 more practical posts. Probably comparing and contrasting 
 packages, tools, community and stuff.

 I'm curious what's happening in those D meetups. Are they still 
 happening (online)?


The Munich D meetup has been quite inactive during recent times. 
The last event was on 16.07.2019, almost a year ago. To be 
honest, I think the problem is that it’s a bit difficult to find 
topics that we have presenters for and that enough people are 
interested in.
Jun 26 2020
prev sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=c3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
On 6/26/20 2:30 AM, aberba wrote:


 I'm curious what's happening in those D meetups. Are they still
 happening (online)?


Our Silicon Valley meetups are still going on:

   https://www.meetup.com/D-Lang-Silicon-Valley/events/kmqcvqybcjbxb/

However, without dedicated effort to line up speakers, it dwindled to a 
social gathering of very few people.

Ali
Jul 06 2020
parent aberba <karabutaworld gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 6 July 2020 at 12:22:56 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:

 On 6/26/20 2:30 AM, aberba wrote:


 I'm curious what's happening in those D meetups. Are they


 still

 happening (online)?


 Our Silicon Valley meetups are still going on:

   
 https://www.meetup.com/D-Lang-Silicon-Valley/events/kmqcvqybcjbxb/

 However, without dedicated effort to line up speakers, it 
 dwindled to a social gathering of very few people.

 Ali



I wish the BeerConf things really takes up to become a regular 
thing.
Jul 06 2020
prev sibling parent reply Avrina <avrina12309412342 gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
wrote:

 On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is 
 clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. 
 Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes 
 down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing 
 at all.


Here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552

It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a 
simple link, community comes last.
Jun 26 2020
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.com> writes:
On 6/26/20 9:03 AM, Avrina wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote:

 On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is clearly 
 not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please paste the 
 direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after a few hours. 
 Some publicity is better than nothing at all.


 
 Here.
 
 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552
 
 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple 
 link, community comes last.


 From https://wiredcraft.com/blog/how-to-post-on-hacker-news/:

"Direct links to the post don’t allow people to vote. The link we have 
at the bottom of the post for example 
(http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5200847) won’t work for upvoting. 
We need upvotes to be made from the newest page or the front page."
Jun 26 2020
parent reply Avrina <avrina12309412342 gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:35:20 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 6/26/20 9:03 AM, Avrina wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
 wrote:

 On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is 
 clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. 
 Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking 
 goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than 
 nothing at all.


 
 Here.
 
 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552
 
 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a 
 simple link, community comes last.


 From https://wiredcraft.com/blog/how-to-post-on-hacker-news/:

 "Direct links to the post don’t allow people to vote. The link 
 we have at the bottom of the post for example 
 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5200847) won’t work for 
 upvoting. We need upvotes to be made from the newest page or 
 the front page."


"It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a 
simple link, community comes last."
Jun 26 2020
next sibling parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 17:02:05 UTC, Avrina wrote:


 "It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a 
 simple link, community comes last."


If the community came last for me, I wouldn't be doing the work I 
do. I'd be focusing on my own projects. So try again.
Jun 26 2020
parent aberba <karabutaworld gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 17:05:40 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 17:02:05 UTC, Avrina wrote:


 "It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a 
 simple link, community comes last."


 If the community came last for me, I wouldn't be doing the work 
 I do. I'd be focusing on my own projects. So try again.


What kind of posts are you willing to accept?
Jun 26 2020
prev sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 6/26/20 1:02 PM, Avrina wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:35:20 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 6/26/20 9:03 AM, Avrina wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran wrote:

 On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is 
 clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. Please 
 paste the direct link in future even if the ranking goes down after 
 a few hours. Some publicity is better than nothing at all.


 Here.

 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552

 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple 
 link, community comes last.


 From https://wiredcraft.com/blog/how-to-post-on-hacker-news/:

 "Direct links to the post don’t allow people to vote. The link we have 
 at the bottom of the post for example 
 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5200847) won’t work for upvoting. 
 We need upvotes to be made from the newest page or the front page."


 
 "It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a simple 
 link, community comes last."


There's some massive misunderstanding here. Do you understand the reason 
he did not a post a simple link?
Jun 26 2020
parent reply Avrina <avrina12309412342 gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 02:42:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 6/26/20 1:02 PM, Avrina wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:35:20 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 On 6/26/20 9:03 AM, Avrina wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
 wrote:

 On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker 
 wrote:

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN 
 is clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 
 comments. Please paste the direct link in future even if 
 the ranking goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is 
 better than nothing at all.


 Here.

 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552

 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a 
 simple link, community comes last.


 From https://wiredcraft.com/blog/how-to-post-on-hacker-news/:

 "Direct links to the post don’t allow people to vote. The 
 link we have at the bottom of the post for example 
 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5200847) won’t work for 
 upvoting. We need upvotes to be made from the newest page or 
 the front page."


 
 "It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a 
 simple link, community comes last."


 There's some massive misunderstanding here. Do you understand 
 the reason he did not a post a simple link?


Do you understand what prioritizing is? Fake internet points are 
being prioritized over ease of access to the community.
Jun 27 2020
next sibling parent reply Paul Backus <snarwin gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 15:06:12 UTC, Avrina wrote:

 Do you understand what prioritizing is? Fake internet points 
 are being prioritized over ease of access to the community.


Another way to frame it is that "respecting the rules of another 
community (HN) is being prioritized over a minor convenience for 
the D community."

If we would like others to treat the D community with respect, I 
think it is only fair that we treat their communities with 
respect as well.
Jun 27 2020
next sibling parent Arun Chandrasekaran <aruncxy gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 16:02:53 UTC, Paul Backus wrote:

 On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 15:06:12 UTC, Avrina wrote:

 Do you understand what prioritizing is? Fake internet points 
 are being prioritized over ease of access to the community.


 Another way to frame it is that "respecting the rules of 
 another community (HN) is being prioritized over a minor 
 convenience for the D community."

 If we would like others to treat the D community with respect, 
 I think it is only fair that we treat their communities with 
 respect as well.


+Paro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_large_numbers
Jun 27 2020
prev sibling parent reply Avrina <avrina12309412342 gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 16:02:53 UTC, Paul Backus wrote:

 On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 15:06:12 UTC, Avrina wrote:

 Do you understand what prioritizing is? Fake internet points 
 are being prioritized over ease of access to the community.


 Another way to frame it is that "respecting the rules of 
 another community (HN) is being prioritized over a minor 
 convenience for the D community."

 If we would like others to treat the D community with respect, 
 I think it is only fair that we treat their communities with 
 respect as well.


They are actually going against their rules and are actively 
trying to game their algorithm by telling D's community to search 
for the article instead of providing.

So actually, I'd they also wanted to follow tand respect the 
rules of another community, then they would be providing a direct 
link. What they are doing now is going against their rules by 
trying to bypass their algorithm for more fake internet points.
Jun 27 2020
parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 17:58:50 UTC, Avrina wrote:


 They are actually going against their rules and are actively 
 trying to game their algorithm by telling D's community to 
 search for the article instead of providing.

 So actually, I'd they also wanted to follow tand respect the 
 rules of another community, then they would be providing a 
 direct link. What they are doing now is going against their 
 rules by trying to bypass their algorithm for more fake 
 internet points.


I don't know why you're so worked up about this, but please 
scroll up and read what I wrote. Nowhere have I asked for anyone 
to upvote the post. I want people to know it's there so that 
those who would like to do so can head over and comment. Whether 
you upvote or not is up to you, but if you do so I would like it 
to count. I also don't want direct links harming our ranking. 
That gets more eyes on the post and helps us all in the long run.

If that's not good enough for you, then I have nothing else to 
say on the matter.
Jun 27 2020
parent reply Avrina <avrina12309412342 gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 28 June 2020 at 02:52:03 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 17:58:50 UTC, Avrina wrote:


 They are actually going against their rules and are actively 
 trying to game their algorithm by telling D's community to 
 search for the article instead of providing.

 So actually, I'd they also wanted to follow tand respect the 
 rules of another community, then they would be providing a 
 direct link. What they are doing now is going against their 
 rules by trying to bypass their algorithm for more fake 
 internet points.


 I don't know why you're so worked up about this, but please 
 scroll up and read what I wrote. Nowhere have I asked for 
 anyone to upvote the post. I want people to know it's there so 
 that those who would like to do so can head over and comment. 
 Whether you upvote or not is up to you, but if you do so I 
 would like it to count. I also don't want direct links harming 
 our ranking. That gets more eyes on the post and helps us all 
 in the long run.

 If that's not good enough for you, then I have nothing else to 
 say on the matter.


Replies like this one and andrei are why.

You are directing a community around a topic to an article about 
that topic. What do you think they are going to do? There's a 
reason why votes don't count when an article is linked directly. 
They didn't do it by mistake.

No worries, I'll post the direct link for you in the future. I 
got you covered.
Jun 28 2020
parent Tove <tove fransson.se> writes:
On Sunday, 28 June 2020 at 16:31:35 UTC, Avrina wrote:

 On Sunday, 28 June 2020 at 02:52:03 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 If that's not good enough for you, then I have nothing else to 
 say on the matter.


 Replies like this one and andrei are why.

 You are directing a community around a topic to an article 
 about that topic. What do you think they are going to do? 
 There's a reason why votes don't count when an article is 
 linked directly. They didn't do it by mistake.

 No worries, I'll post the direct link for you in the future. I 
 got you covered.


I have a feature request to the forum engine, automatically 
delete all posts with hn deeplinks, problem solved.
Jun 28 2020
prev sibling parent Arun Chandrasekaran <aruncxy gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 15:06:12 UTC, Avrina wrote:

 On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 02:42:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 On 6/26/20 1:02 PM, Avrina wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:35:20 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 wrote:

 On 6/26/20 9:03 AM, Avrina wrote:

 [...]


 From https://wiredcraft.com/blog/how-to-post-on-hacker-news/:

 "Direct links to the post don’t allow people to vote. The 
 link we have at the bottom of the post for example 
 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5200847) won’t work for 
 upvoting. We need upvotes to be made from the newest page or 
 the front page."


 
 "It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a 
 simple link, community comes last."


 There's some massive misunderstanding here. Do you understand 
 the reason he did not a post a simple link?


 Do you understand what prioritizing is? Fake internet points 
 are being prioritized over ease of access to the community.


Words are powerful, they kindle emotions. Saying for everyone 
here.

Async communication gives an opportunity for everyone to throw in 
sharp words. We wouldn't be saying such words when we meet them 
in person.

I regret being the person to start this. Now this thread is going 
in a different direction.

Let the bitterness end here please!!
Jun 27 2020
prev sibling parent reply Arun Chandrasekaran <aruncxy gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 13:03:01 UTC, Avrina wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 05:37:13 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
 wrote:

 On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


 This is a very interesting post. But this strategy with HN is 
 clearly not working. 5 upvotes after 17 hours and 0 comments. 
 Please paste the direct link in future even if the ranking 
 goes down after a few hours. Some publicity is better than 
 nothing at all.


 Here.

 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23639552

 It says a lot about the priorities when you can't even get a 
 simple link, community comes last.


No, that's not right to say just for a hyperlink! Show some 
appreciation and kindness please. If we don't have anything nice 
to say, it's better not to say anything at all.
Jun 26 2020
parent reply Dennis <dkorpel gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 19:57:36 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
wrote:

 No, that's not right to say just for a hyperlink! Show some 
 appreciation and kindness please. If we don't have anything 
 nice to say, it's better not to say anything at all.


True that! Mike has been doing many thankless jobs such as:
- running the D blog
- being in charge of the DIP process
- maintaining BindBC C bindings
- organizing DConf
- managing bug bounties
- helping people on the Learn forum and Discord
- probably more I'm not aware of

Instead of worrying about whether he should or shouldn't directly 
link to the HackerNews submission, let's take a moment to thank 
Mike for his work.
Jun 26 2020
parent reply Clarice <cl ar.ice> writes:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 23:25:00 UTC, Dennis wrote:

 On Friday, 26 June 2020 at 19:57:36 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
 wrote:

 No, that's not right to say just for a hyperlink! Show some 
 appreciation and kindness please. If we don't have anything 
 nice to say, it's better not to say anything at all.


 True that! Mike has been doing many thankless jobs such as:
 - running the D blog
 - being in charge of the DIP process
 - maintaining BindBC C bindings
 - organizing DConf
 - managing bug bounties
 - helping people on the Learn forum and Discord
 - probably more I'm not aware of

 Instead of worrying about whether he should or shouldn't 
 directly link to the HackerNews submission, let's take a moment 
 to thank Mike for his work.


Don't forget moderating the newsgroups! Heck, managing DIPs and 
their discussions alone is worthy of gratitude. So thank you, 
Mike.
Jun 26 2020
parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 at 03:56:58 UTC, Clarice wrote:


 Don't forget moderating the newsgroups! Heck, managing DIPs and 
 their discussions alone is worthy of gratitude. So thank you, 
 Mike.


Thanks Clarice! And Dennis!
Jun 26 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent Per =?UTF-8?B?Tm9yZGzDtnc=?= <per.nordlow gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 Simen Kjærås outlines an approach to supporting head-mutable 
 types in D without the need for compiler or language changes.

 The blog:
 https://dlang.org/blog/2020/06/25/a-pattern-for-head-mutable-structures/


This is a brilliant potential improvement to D that's gonna make 
it even more usable especially for newcomers. What about adding 
and using headMutable in Phobos ranges?
Jun 26 2020
prev sibling next sibling parent Per =?UTF-8?B?Tm9yZGzDtnc=?= <per.nordlow gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 Simen Kjærås outlines an approach to supporting head-mutable 
 types in D without the need for compiler or language changes.

 The blog:
 https://dlang.org/blog/2020/06/25/a-pattern-for-head-mutable-structures/

 Reddit:
 https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hfkq5e/a_pattern_for_headmutable_structures_in_d/

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


What's so problematic about adding compiler support for implicit 
cast to head mutable for range-style structs?
Jun 26 2020
prev sibling parent 9il <ilyayaroshenko gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 at 11:55:14 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:

 Simen Kjærås outlines an approach to supporting head-mutable 
 types in D without the need for compiler or language changes.

 The blog:
 https://dlang.org/blog/2020/06/25/a-pattern-for-head-mutable-structures/

 Reddit:
 https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hfkq5e/a_pattern_for_headmutable_structures_in_d/

 I've also submitted it to HN (please use the search box):

 https://news.ycombinator.com/newest


Good stuff. If this pattern will be accepted to language design 
the same way as Ranges API then Mir will adopt it to extend the 
current lightConst/lightImmutable features.

Ilya
Jun 27 2020