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digitalmars.D - Why not including async/await ?

reply zoujiaqing <zoujiaqing gmail.com> writes:
Swift 5.5 including async/await.

TypeScript support it.
Kotlin support it.
Sep 23
next sibling parent reply jfondren <julian.fondren gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 24 September 2021 at 03:16:36 UTC, zoujiaqing wrote:
 Swift 5.5 including async/await.

 TypeScript support it.
 Kotlin support it.
And Nim, and Rust, and Zig. I think of it as a lot like garbage collection: 1. deadlocks (memory errors) are too hard to deal with! Why can't software handle this instead of us poor programmers? 2. async funcs (GC-using functions) are cleaner and easier to write. Don't mind the invisible extra work. 3. huh, this new cure-all comes with surprising downsides like 'colored functions' (GC-assuming APIs) that are annoying to expose to the C ABI, and that want other functions to share their 'color' (also use/avoid GC), and extra overhead, and-- Past the trivial client-side examples and synchronous callback hell, you start caring about the actual concurrent architecture of your program, but you no longer have any control to architect anything with. That's my limited experience, anyway. If you know of a good salespitch, "Erlang devs! Stop letting mailboxes hold you back! Join the new order!", I'll watch it. Meanwhile: https://code.dlang.org/packages/dawait That's using core.thread.fiber directly, but by removing that you could make it compatible with a simple `import vibe.core.concurrency;` and then `setConcurrencyPrimitive(ConcurrencyPrimitive.workerTask);` to use vibe-core's fiber scheduler.
Sep 23
parent reply russhy <russhy gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 24 September 2021 at 06:00:30 UTC, jfondren wrote:
 On Friday, 24 September 2021 at 03:16:36 UTC, zoujiaqing wrote:
 Swift 5.5 including async/await.

 TypeScript support it.
 Kotlin support it.
And Nim, and Rust, and Zig. I think of it as a lot like garbage collection: 1. deadlocks (memory errors) are too hard to deal with! Why can't software handle this instead of us poor programmers? 2. async funcs (GC-using functions) are cleaner and easier to write. Don't mind the invisible extra work. 3. huh, this new cure-all comes with surprising downsides like 'colored functions' (GC-assuming APIs) that are annoying to expose to the C ABI, and that want other functions to share their 'color' (also use/avoid GC), and extra overhead, and-- Past the trivial client-side examples and synchronous callback hell, you start caring about the actual concurrent architecture of your program, but you no longer have any control to architect anything with. That's my limited experience, anyway. If you know of a good salespitch, "Erlang devs! Stop letting mailboxes hold you back! Join the new order!", I'll watch it. Meanwhile: https://code.dlang.org/packages/dawait That's using core.thread.fiber directly, but by removing that you could make it compatible with a simple `import vibe.core.concurrency;` and then `setConcurrencyPrimitive(ConcurrencyPrimitive.workerTask);` to use vibe-core's fiber scheduler.
adding vibe as dependency = make your project much much slower to compile dependencies are bad by design, you don't want to depend on 3rd party, you want use language to empower your project dependencies should serve to play nice with services, for ex: postgresql driver, gpu abstraction, aws api etc etc if people define language constructs as "dependencies", consuming them feels bad, because there will not be a common denominator between "dependencies" you'll end up like Rust, where certain io operation will require different paradigms because it is implemented as crate then you have crates that depends on crates that depends on crates etc you end up watching crates downloads for 5 minutes when you want to "try the language" same story for typescript and NPM, even though they have async support already, other aspects are affected Go doesn't have this problem, because goroutine is a language feature One must watch other languages and learn from their successes and avoid mistakes of others If your language can't do X, ask why it can't, if it could be doable with language, and then, and only then you can start to workaround the problem by consuming a dependency, but even then, one must always remember that it'll feel bad to depend on a dependency
Sep 24
next sibling parent jfondren <julian.fondren gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 24 September 2021 at 12:53:40 UTC, russhy wrote:
 adding vibe as dependency = make your project much much slower 
 to compile
...
 If your language can't do X, ask why it can't,
The X that I'd like is faster compilation of vibe and std.regex and such :) VibedScheduler is just a much better fiber scheduler than the deliberate placeholder implementation in Phobos. There's still language support, with `shared`, `immutable`, thread-local storage, etc. I keep looking for this information in the spec but https://tour.dlang.org/ shows it off in the Multithreading drop-down.
Sep 24
prev sibling parent reply Paul Backus <snarwin gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 24 September 2021 at 12:53:40 UTC, russhy wrote:
 if people define language constructs as "dependencies", 
 consuming them feels bad, because there will not be a common 
 denominator between "dependencies"
It seems like this problem (dependencies leading to ecosystem fragmentation) could be solved by a good standard library module, without necessarily requiring a new language construct.
Sep 24
parent SealabJaster <sealabjaster gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 24 September 2021 at 15:30:19 UTC, Paul Backus wrote:
 ...
Let's call it `std.experimental.xxx` where for some reason it goes there only to die.
Sep 24
prev sibling parent Tobias Pankrath <tobias pankrath.net> writes:
On Friday, 24 September 2021 at 03:16:36 UTC, zoujiaqing wrote:
 Swift 5.5 including async/await.

 TypeScript support it.
 Kotlin support it.
compiler can automatically rewrite your code to state machines async becomes a runtime feature. That rewriting (ala C++ coroutines?) is the useful/enabling thing I'd see usefull for D. Would wonderfully interop with ranges as well.
Sep 24