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digitalmars.D - Newbie to D initial suggestion

reply Edward Diener <eddielee_no_spam_here tropicsoft.com> writes:
I am an experienced C++ programmer who became interested in D only after 
the recent discussion on comp.lang.c++ between Walter Bright and various 
C++ experts regarding undefined or implementation defined areas of C++. 
I realized during reading that discussion that while I would not stop 
programming in C++ I was sympathetic to many of Mr. Bright's points 
regarding C++.

I have a basic initial suggestion, as I am persuing the D pdf dcument I 
downloaded in order to understand of what the language consisted. The 
basic suggestion regards documentation for D itself. I believe the most 
important thing for getting others to be interested in a new programming 
language is the unglamorous chore of presenting the documentation for 
that language to others. While the pdf documentation I am reading is 
adequately thorough, I have a few suggestions:

1) A link to the downloaded documentation for D should be almost the 
first thing a viewer should see when they click on the D portion of the 
Digital Mars web site. It should be front and center. I realize there is 
a separate Language link on the left hand side which takes me to an 
online set of pages which explain D and I realize that somewhere down on 
the initial page there is a line which reads "This document is available 
as a pdf" with a link on that final word, but I think this is still too 
indirect. The normal reaction to any new language is to download the 
documentation detailing that language so that it can be read and/or 
printed at the end-user's leisure.

2) Since D is highly related to C++ there should be a document for C++ 
programmers detailing the differences between D and C++, which again is 
downloadable almost immediately from the main web page of D. I did not 
find any such document although there is occasional mention of these 
diferences in the pdf document I downloaded.

3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not 
meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just 
attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any 
documentation which I could find about this version and/or its 
difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.

The pdf document I am reading is a good technical document but I would 
rather, as an experienced C++ programmer, have read a downloadable 
document detailing the differences between D and C++ than having to wade 
through each section of the pdf document attempting to see what they are.

I realize that writing documentation is the chore which nearly every 
programmer hates but when one is creating a new computer language it is 
almost an absolute necessity if one wants to get others to try what one 
has created. So I hope the mild suggestions mentioned here will help the 
D community in their efforts to tell other interested programmers, 
especially C++ programmers, why they might consider using D.

Now I will continue to read on about D at my leisure, and see if I am 
interested in pursuing my initial interest in it. If I have any general 
suggestions about the language I hope they will be taken in the spirit 
of things intended to improve things rather than as an antagonism to the 
ideas presented there.
Jan 27 2008
next sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Edward Diener wrote:

 I am an experienced C++ programmer who became interested in D only after 
 the recent discussion on comp.lang.c++ between Walter Bright and various 
 C++ experts regarding undefined or implementation defined areas of C++. 
 I realized during reading that discussion that while I would not stop 
 programming in C++ I was sympathetic to many of Mr. Bright's points 
 regarding C++.


Welcome!


 2) Since D is highly related to C++ there should be a document for C++ 
 programmers detailing the differences between D and C++, which again is 
 downloadable almost immediately from the main web page of D. I did not 
 find any such document although there is occasional mention of these 
 diferences in the pdf document I downloaded.


I started putting together a porting document, which might give you some 
hints.  But it's definitely not the user friendly intro document you're 
after. It assumes you basically know how both C++ and D work.  But it 
might give some hints as to what the most painful differences are:
   http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?PortingFromCxx

I also just noticed this:
   http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/cpptod.html


 
 3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not 
 meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just 
 attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any 
 documentation which I could find about this version and/or its 
 difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.


We keep telling Walter this, but I suppose he's too busy to fix it. 
Congrats to you for figuring out what was going on!  Yes, 2.0 is still 
in flux.  Go that way only if you want bleeding edge, and don't mind 
your code breaking from time to time on updates.

--bb
Jan 27 2008
parent Edward Diener <eddielee_no_spam_here tropicsoft.com> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Edward Diener wrote:

 I am an experienced C++ programmer who became interested in D only 
 after the recent discussion on comp.lang.c++ between Walter Bright and 
 various C++ experts regarding undefined or implementation defined 
 areas of C++. I realized during reading that discussion that while I 
 would not stop programming in C++ I was sympathetic to many of Mr. 
 Bright's points regarding C++.


 
 Welcome!
 

 2) Since D is highly related to C++ there should be a document for C++ 
 programmers detailing the differences between D and C++, which again 
 is downloadable almost immediately from the main web page of D. I did 
 not find any such document although there is occasional mention of 
 these diferences in the pdf document I downloaded.


 
 I started putting together a porting document, which might give you some 
 hints.  But it's definitely not the user friendly intro document you're 
 after. It assumes you basically know how both C++ and D work.  But it 
 might give some hints as to what the most painful differences are:
   http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?PortingFromCxx
 
 I also just noticed this:
   http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/cpptod.html


I see now that one should click on the Comparisons... menu item to get 
what I want regarding the information a C++ programmer would need to 
understand D. Thanks for pointing this out.


 

 3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not 
 meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just 
 attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any 
 documentation which I could find about this version and/or its 
 difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.


 
 We keep telling Walter this, but I suppose he's too busy to fix it. 
 Congrats to you for figuring out what was going on!  Yes, 2.0 is still 
 in flux.  Go that way only if you want bleeding edge, and don't mind 
 your code breaking from time to time on updates.


I will ignore 2.0 for now.
Jan 27 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Larry <lawrence.hemsley gmail.vom> writes:
I will second Edward's suggestions. It also goes for the Tango site. I have
spent time on both sites looking for documentation. I remember how happy I was
when I finally discovered the link to the pdf reference material it was very
well hidden but should be at the top of the very first page.

I have not been able to find any downloadable reference material in the D 2.0
section that is in pdf format. It would be very big help in finally switching
to the 2.0 version although I know it is still in alpha or beta testing.

When visiting the Tango site, I had to download the reference manual (which was
incomplete, can someone finish it please) in text format. I have been inserting
the text files into my word processor and using copy and paste to get the
graphics back in. And then I am also reformating it and will hopefully have a
document I can convert to pdf.

I do know how boring and mind numbing documenting specification and reference's
is since I have it in the clinical laboratory field in another life in my first
career. But getting the reference material for both D and Tango in to a pdf
format and in a place on the web sites that is easily accessible would go along
way to help get others to adopt D as their language of choice. 

Edward Diener Wrote:


 I am an experienced C++ programmer who became interested in D only after 
 the recent discussion on comp.lang.c++ between Walter Bright and various 
 C++ experts regarding undefined or implementation defined areas of C++. 
 I realized during reading that discussion that while I would not stop 
 programming in C++ I was sympathetic to many of Mr. Bright's points 
 regarding C++.
 
 I have a basic initial suggestion, as I am persuing the D pdf dcument I 
 downloaded in order to understand of what the language consisted. The 
 basic suggestion regards documentation for D itself. I believe the most 
 important thing for getting others to be interested in a new programming 
 language is the unglamorous chore of presenting the documentation for 
 that language to others. While the pdf documentation I am reading is 
 adequately thorough, I have a few suggestions:
 
 1) A link to the downloaded documentation for D should be almost the 
 first thing a viewer should see when they click on the D portion of the 
 Digital Mars web site. It should be front and center. I realize there is 
 a separate Language link on the left hand side which takes me to an 
 online set of pages which explain D and I realize that somewhere down on 
 the initial page there is a line which reads "This document is available 
 as a pdf" with a link on that final word, but I think this is still too 
 indirect. The normal reaction to any new language is to download the 
 documentation detailing that language so that it can be read and/or 
 printed at the end-user's leisure.
 
 2) Since D is highly related to C++ there should be a document for C++ 
 programmers detailing the differences between D and C++, which again is 
 downloadable almost immediately from the main web page of D. I did not 
 find any such document although there is occasional mention of these 
 diferences in the pdf document I downloaded.
 
 3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not 
 meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just 
 attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any 
 documentation which I could find about this version and/or its 
 difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.
 
 The pdf document I am reading is a good technical document but I would 
 rather, as an experienced C++ programmer, have read a downloadable 
 document detailing the differences between D and C++ than having to wade 
 through each section of the pdf document attempting to see what they are.
 
 I realize that writing documentation is the chore which nearly every 
 programmer hates but when one is creating a new computer language it is 
 almost an absolute necessity if one wants to get others to try what one 
 has created. So I hope the mild suggestions mentioned here will help the 
 D community in their efforts to tell other interested programmers, 
 especially C++ programmers, why they might consider using D.
 
 Now I will continue to read on about D at my leisure, and see if I am 
 interested in pursuing my initial interest in it. If I have any general 
 suggestions about the language I hope they will be taken in the spirit 
 of things intended to improve things rather than as an antagonism to the 
 ideas presented there.
Jan 27 2008
next sibling parent John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Larry wrote:

 I will second Edward's suggestions. It also goes for the Tango site. I have
spent time on both sites looking for documentation. I remember how happy I was
when I finally discovered the link to the pdf reference material it was very
well hidden but should be at the top of the very first page.
 
 I have not been able to find any downloadable reference material in the D 2.0
section that is in pdf format. It would be very big help in finally switching
to the 2.0 version although I know it is still in alpha or beta testing.
 
 When visiting the Tango site, I had to download the reference manual (which
was incomplete, can someone finish it please) in text format. I have been
inserting the text files into my word processor and using copy and paste to get
the graphics back in. And then I am also reformating it and will hopefully have
a document I can convert to pdf.
 
 I do know how boring and mind numbing documenting specification and
reference's is since I have it in the clinical laboratory field in another life
in my first career. But getting the reference material for both D and Tango in
to a pdf format and in a place on the web sites that is easily accessible would
go along way to help get others to adopt D as their language of choice. 
 
 Edward Diener Wrote:
 



Yes, the Tango Reference manual really, really needs to be completed.  I 
am supposed to be contributing towards that goal but have been juggling 
several time consuming projects here and there.  Time to get back on 
track. :(

I've also been interested in making it into a chm and pdf file in the 
past.  This would be an important next step.  I think there have been a 
few requests for that.

-JJR
Jan 27 2008
prev sibling parent reply "Kris" <foo bar.com> writes:
"Larry" <lawrence.hemsley gmail.vom> wrote in message 
news:fnijfv$6go$1 digitalmars.com...

I will second Edward's suggestions. It also goes for the Tango site. I have 
spent time on both sites looking for documentation. I remember how happy I 
was when I finally discovered the link to the pdf reference material it was 
very well hidden but should be at the top of the very first page.

 I have not been able to find any downloadable reference material in the D 
 2.0 section that is in pdf format. It would be very big help in finally 
 switching to the 2.0 version although I know it is still in alpha or beta 
 testing.

 When visiting the Tango site, I had to download the reference manual 
 (which was incomplete, can someone finish it please) in text format. I 
 have been inserting the text files into my word processor and using copy 
 and paste to get the graphics back in. And then I am also reformating it 
 and will hopefully have a document I can convert to pdf.

 I do know how boring and mind numbing documenting specification and 
 reference's is since I have it in the clinical laboratory field in another 
 life in my first career. But getting the reference material for both D and 
 Tango in to a pdf format and in a place on the web sites that is easily 
 accessible would go along way to help get others to adopt D as their 
 language of choice.



I agree :)

Please forgive this indugence, but there is a book available on both D and 
Tango (also available as ebook PDF): 
http://dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/LearnToTangoWithD
Jan 27 2008
next sibling parent reply John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Kris wrote:

 "Larry" <lawrence.hemsley gmail.vom> wrote in message 
 news:fnijfv$6go$1 digitalmars.com...

 I will second Edward's suggestions. It also goes for the Tango site. I have 
 spent time on both sites looking for documentation. I remember how happy I 
 was when I finally discovered the link to the pdf reference material it was 
 very well hidden but should be at the top of the very first page.

 I have not been able to find any downloadable reference material in the D 
 2.0 section that is in pdf format. It would be very big help in finally 
 switching to the 2.0 version although I know it is still in alpha or beta 
 testing.

 When visiting the Tango site, I had to download the reference manual 
 (which was incomplete, can someone finish it please) in text format. I 
 have been inserting the text files into my word processor and using copy 
 and paste to get the graphics back in. And then I am also reformating it 
 and will hopefully have a document I can convert to pdf.

 I do know how boring and mind numbing documenting specification and 
 reference's is since I have it in the clinical laboratory field in another 
 life in my first career. But getting the reference material for both D and 
 Tango in to a pdf format and in a place on the web sites that is easily 
 accessible would go along way to help get others to adopt D as their 
 language of choice.


 
 
 I agree :)
 
 Please forgive this indugence, but there is a book available on both D and 
 Tango (also available as ebook PDF): 
 http://dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/LearnToTangoWithD
 
 



Never!  We could never forgive such an indulgence! :D
Jan 27 2008
next sibling parent reply "Kris" <foo bar.com> writes:
"John Reimer" <terminal.node gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:fnipuf$knd$1 digitalmars.com...

 Kris wrote:

 Please forgive this indugence, but there is a book available on both D 
 and Tango (also available as ebook PDF): 
 http://dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/LearnToTangoWithD






 Never!  We could never forgive such an indulgence! :D



Well, in that case I might as well add that the book is almost dirt cheap, 
especially for those in Europe; less than 9 quid in the UK ;)

It's the only English language book on D, and worth parting with a few bucks 
for. Even just to get the two chapters written by Mike <G>  All proceeds 
from the book will be channeled into the Tango project, to the benefit of 
both Tango and the D community.

(Amazon USA notes that they're now in stock -- see link above)
Jan 27 2008
parent John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Kris wrote:


 Never!  We could never forgive such an indulgence! :D


 
 
 Well, in that case I might as well add that the book is almost dirt cheap, 
 especially for those in Europe; less than 9 quid in the UK ;)
 
 It's the only English language book on D, and worth parting with a few bucks 
 for. Even just to get the two chapters written by Mike <G>  All proceeds 
 from the book will be channeled into the Tango project, to the benefit of 
 both Tango and the D community.
 
 (Amazon USA notes that they're now in stock -- see link above) 
 
 



Lol!  That's better. :D

The hard-copies are now available? Great!

-JJR
Jan 27 2008
prev sibling parent reply Larry <lawrence.hemsley gmail.com> writes:
John Reimer Wrote:


 Kris wrote:

 "Larry" <lawrence.hemsley gmail.vom> wrote in message 
 news:fnijfv$6go$1 digitalmars.com...

 I will second Edward's suggestions. It also goes for the Tango site. I have 
 spent time on both sites looking for documentation. I remember how happy I 
 was when I finally discovered the link to the pdf reference material it was 
 very well hidden but should be at the top of the very first page.

 I have not been able to find any downloadable reference material in the D 
 2.0 section that is in pdf format. It would be very big help in finally 
 switching to the 2.0 version although I know it is still in alpha or beta 
 testing.

 When visiting the Tango site, I had to download the reference manual 
 (which was incomplete, can someone finish it please) in text format. I 
 have been inserting the text files into my word processor and using copy 
 and paste to get the graphics back in. And then I am also reformating it 
 and will hopefully have a document I can convert to pdf.

 I do know how boring and mind numbing documenting specification and 
 reference's is since I have it in the clinical laboratory field in another 
 life in my first career. But getting the reference material for both D and 
 Tango in to a pdf format and in a place on the web sites that is easily 
 accessible would go along way to help get others to adopt D as their 
 language of choice.


 
 
 I agree :)
 
 Please forgive this indugence, but there is a book available on both D and 
 Tango (also available as ebook PDF): 
 http://dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/LearnToTangoWithD
 
 


 
 
 Never!  We could never forgive such an indulgence! :D


I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
(shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango reference
manual.

Larry
Jan 28 2008
next sibling parent reply John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Larry wrote:


 Never!  We could never forgive such an indulgence! :D


 
 I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
 (shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango reference
manual.
 
 Larry
 


Ouch! :(

I'm pretty sure it is, though.  :)

-JJR
Jan 28 2008
parent reply Larry <lawrence.hemsey gmaill.com> writes:
John Reimer Wrote:


 Larry wrote:
 

 Never!  We could never forgive such an indulgence! :D


 
 I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
 (shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango reference
manual.
 
 Larry
 


 
 Ouch! :(
 
 I'm pretty sure it is, though.  :)
 
 -JJR


I am sorry, I didn't mean to be mean.
Poorly written reference material is one of many pet peeves of mine.
When I review the book I will keep in mind that it is a first edition and that
dmd and tango are still in flux sort of.

Larry
Jan 29 2008
parent John Reimer <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
Larry wrote:

 John Reimer Wrote:
 

 Larry wrote:


 Never!  We could never forgive such an indulgence! :D


 I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
 (shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango reference
manual.

 Larry


 Ouch! :(

 I'm pretty sure it is, though.  :)

 -JJR


 
 I am sorry, I didn't mean to be mean.
 Poorly written reference material is one of many pet peeves of mine.
 When I review the book I will keep in mind that it is a first edition and that
 dmd and tango are still in flux sort of.
 
 Larry
 


Hey, no problem... It would be great if you could help make it better 
written or offer some suggestions on how to do so. :)

-JJR
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling parent reply "Kris" <foo bar.com> writes:
"Larry" <lawrence.hemsley gmail.com> wrote in


 I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
 (shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango 
 reference manual.


:-)

Would you be willing to improve the ref manual?

- Kris
Jan 28 2008
parent reply Larry <lawrence.hemsey gmaill.com> writes:
Kris Wrote:


 
 "Larry" <lawrence.hemsley gmail.com> wrote in
 

 I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
 (shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango 
 reference manual.


 
 :-)
 
 Would you be willing to improve the ref manual?
 
 - Kris
 
 
 


I am willing to try.
I can probably write the installation part if it is still missing. However I do
think I have used it enough to be of much help since I am still trying
to learn to tango.

Larry
Jan 29 2008
parent Kris <foo bar.com> writes:
Larry Wrote:


 Kris Wrote:
 

 
 "Larry" <lawrence.hemsley gmail.com> wrote in
 

 I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
 (shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango 
 reference manual.


 
 :-)
 
 Would you be willing to improve the ref manual?
 
 - Kris
 
 
 


 
 I am willing to try.
 I can probably write the installation part if it is still missing. However I do
 think I have used it enough to be of much help since I am still trying
 to learn to tango.
 
 Larry



any and all assistance would be much appreciated
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling parent Larry <lawrence.hemsley gmail.com> writes:
Kris Wrote:


 "Larry" <lawrence.hemsley gmail.vom> wrote in message 
 news:fnijfv$6go$1 digitalmars.com...

I will second Edward's suggestions. It also goes for the Tango site. I have 
spent time on both sites looking for documentation. I remember how happy I 
was when I finally discovered the link to the pdf reference material it was 
very well hidden but should be at the top of the very first page.

 I have not been able to find any downloadable reference material in the D 
 2.0 section that is in pdf format. It would be very big help in finally 
 switching to the 2.0 version although I know it is still in alpha or beta 
 testing.

 When visiting the Tango site, I had to download the reference manual 
 (which was incomplete, can someone finish it please) in text format. I 
 have been inserting the text files into my word processor and using copy 
 and paste to get the graphics back in. And then I am also reformating it 
 and will hopefully have a document I can convert to pdf.

 I do know how boring and mind numbing documenting specification and 
 reference's is since I have it in the clinical laboratory field in another 
 life in my first career. But getting the reference material for both D and 
 Tango in to a pdf format and in a place on the web sites that is easily 
 accessible would go along way to help get others to adopt D as their 
 language of choice.


 
 
 I agree :)
 
 Please forgive this indugence, but there is a book available on both D and 
 Tango (also available as ebook PDF): 
 http://dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/LearnToTangoWithD
 
 


Sorry I am never quit sure which thread to reply to do this is a duplicate
reply. I have ordered the book. It shipped from Amazon yesterday. It has
not arrived yet.

Larry
Jan 28 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Edward,

 I have a basic initial suggestion, as I am persuing the D pdf dcument
 I downloaded


forgive my ignorance: What PDF? (I just found it, but until now I didn't 
know there was one)

BTW, the zip file with DMD include the full HTML docs.
Jan 27 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Edward Diener wrote:

 I have a basic initial suggestion, as I am persuing the D pdf dcument I 
 downloaded in order to understand of what the language consisted. The 
 basic suggestion regards documentation for D itself. I believe the most 
 important thing for getting others to be interested in a new programming 
 language is the unglamorous chore of presenting the documentation for 
 that language to others. While the pdf documentation I am reading is 
 adequately thorough, I have a few suggestions:


I agree with you, but the current problem is that the pdf files need to 
be manually created, and they fall further and further out of date. What 
needs to be done is to be able to automatically generate a pdf from the 
web site source material.


 1) A link to the downloaded documentation for D should be almost the 
 first thing a viewer should see when they click on the D portion of the 
 Digital Mars web site. It should be front and center. I realize there is 
 a separate Language link on the left hand side which takes me to an 
 online set of pages which explain D and I realize that somewhere down on 
 the initial page there is a line which reads "This document is available 
 as a pdf" with a link on that final word, but I think this is still too 
 indirect. The normal reaction to any new language is to download the 
 documentation detailing that language so that it can be read and/or 
 printed at the end-user's leisure.


I agree, the front page needs to be revamped.


 2) Since D is highly related to C++ there should be a document for C++ 
 programmers detailing the differences between D and C++, which again is 
 downloadable almost immediately from the main web page of D. I did not 
 find any such document although there is occasional mention of these 
 diferences in the pdf document I downloaded.


http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/cpptod.html
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/ctod.html
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/pretod.html


 3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not 
 meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just 
 attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any 
 documentation which I could find about this version and/or its 
 difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.


I agree, but for now, http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html 
has the information.



 Now I will continue to read on about D at my leisure, and see if I am 
 interested in pursuing my initial interest in it. If I have any general 
 suggestions about the language I hope they will be taken in the spirit 
 of things intended to improve things rather than as an antagonism to the 
 ideas presented there.


No problem. It's good feedback.
Jan 28 2008
parent Edward Diener <eddielee_no_spam_here tropicsoft.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Edward Diener wrote:

 I have a basic initial suggestion, as I am persuing the D pdf dcument 
 I downloaded in order to understand of what the language consisted. 
 The basic suggestion regards documentation for D itself. I believe the 
 most important thing for getting others to be interested in a new 
 programming language is the unglamorous chore of presenting the 
 documentation for that language to others. While the pdf documentation 
 I am reading is adequately thorough, I have a few suggestions:


 
 I agree with you, but the current problem is that the pdf files need to 
 be manually created, and they fall further and further out of date. What 
 needs to be done is to be able to automatically generate a pdf from the 
 web site source material.


Perhaps some intermediate format like Docbook will allow both HTML and 
PDF to be generated from the same basic source. Boost uses a BoostBook 
or better even a QuickBook, although I have encountered endless problems 
as an end-user building Boost documentation form the SVN latest source 
tree, but I think this has much more to do with their impenetrable bjam 
Boost build system than the failings of the Docbook inherited document 
style.

Just a suggestion to make it easier to generate pdf files for 
downloading and offline reading.


 

 1) A link to the downloaded documentation for D should be almost the 
 first thing a viewer should see when they click on the D portion of 
 the Digital Mars web site. It should be front and center. I realize 
 there is a separate Language link on the left hand side which takes me 
 to an online set of pages which explain D and I realize that somewhere 
 down on the initial page there is a line which reads "This document is 
 available as a pdf" with a link on that final word, but I think this 
 is still too indirect. The normal reaction to any new language is to 
 download the documentation detailing that language so that it can be 
 read and/or printed at the end-user's leisure.


 
 I agree, the front page needs to be revamped.
 

 2) Since D is highly related to C++ there should be a document for C++ 
 programmers detailing the differences between D and C++, which again 
 is downloadable almost immediately from the main web page of D. I did 
 not find any such document although there is occasional mention of 
 these diferences in the pdf document I downloaded.


 
 http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/cpptod.html
 http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/ctod.html
 http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/pretod.html


Thanks, others have pointed out to me these links.

I know it is extra work for you but if the main documentation just had 
an appendix which linked back to places in each section where C++ and D 
differed ( and in some places I realize it would just say the entire 
section ) that would be a great boon for C++ programmers interested in 
D. In your links just above you are not really covering all of the 
differences and an experienced C++ programmer coming to D would 
naturally like to skip all of the same areas of the two languages and 
just learn the differences from the main documentation source.


 

 3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not 
 meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just 
 attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any 
 documentation which I could find about this version and/or its 
 difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.


 
 I agree, but for now, http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/changelog.html 
 has the information.


OK, I see it. Hopefully you can piece together something better once 2.0 
is ready for prime time.


 
 

 Now I will continue to read on about D at my leisure, and see if I am 
 interested in pursuing my initial interest in it. If I have any 
 general suggestions about the language I hope they will be taken in 
 the spirit of things intended to improve things rather than as an 
 antagonism to the ideas presented there.


 
 No problem. It's good feedback.


There is some more to come, based on specific items, but D is 
interesting and I sympathize with your goals in creating it.
Jan 28 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Edward Diener wrote:

 3) There is evidently a version 2.0 and above of D. Perhaps it is not 
 meant for anybody to become interested in this version who is just 
 attempting to learn what D is about, but the complete lack of any 
 documentation which I could find about this version and/or its 
 difference from the 1.0 version is not a good thing.


You're right, this is sorely needed. I put up a first crude cut of one at:

http://www.digitalmars.com/2.0/features2.html
Jan 28 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Correct link:

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/features2.html
Jan 28 2008
next sibling parent reply Leandro Lucarella <llucax gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright, el 28 de enero a las 14:31 me escribiste:

 Correct link:
 
 http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/features2.html


There is a broken link there, where it says "changes that were also made
to D 1.0" point to http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.d that get a
404, maybe it should be changelog.html?

-- 
Leandro Lucarella (luca) | Blog colectivo: http://www.mazziblog.com.ar/blog/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey you, dont help them to bury the light
Don't give in without a fight.
Jan 29 2008
next sibling parent jcc7 <technocrat7 gmail.com> writes:
== Quote from Leandro Lucarella (llucax gmail.com)'s article

 Walter Bright, el 28 de enero a las 14:31 me escribiste:

 Correct link:

 http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/features2.html


 There is a broken link there, where it says "changes that were also
 made to D 1.0" point to http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.d
 that get a 404, maybe it should be changelog.html?


Also, there's a link to a file that doesn't seem to exist (yet?):
std.hiddenfunc: new module
http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/phobos/std_hiddenfunc.html
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Leandro Lucarella wrote:

 There is a broken link there, where it says "changes that were also made
 to D 1.0" point to http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog.d that get a
 404, maybe it should be changelog.html?


Yes. Good catch.
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling parent torhu <no spam.invalid> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Correct link:
 
 http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/features2.html


__traits is missing, that's an important one. :)
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling parent Larry <lawrence.hemsley gmail.com> writes:
Kris Wrote:


 Larry Wrote:
 

 Kris Wrote:
 

 
 "Larry" <lawrence.hemsley gmail.com> wrote in
 

 I already ordered the book, it just has not arrived from Amazon yet
 (shipped yesterday) I do hope it is better written than the Tango 
 reference manual.


 
 :-)
 
 Would you be willing to improve the ref manual?
 
 - Kris
 
 
 


 
 I am willing to try.
 I can probably write the installation part if it is still missing. However I do
 think I have used it enough to be of much help since I am still trying
 to learn to tango.
 
 Larry


 
 
 any and all assistance would be much appreciated
 


OK, I just printed the WikiFormatting page (wouldn't it be nice if all wiki's
used the same formatting). I will give it a try and see.
Jan 30 2008