digitalmars.D - Is it too late to change the name of this language?
- Benjamin Lindley (5/5) Jun 17 2011 I'm new to this language, and so far, I really like it. But that name
- bearophile (4/5) Jun 17 2011 Google gives me only 93000 hits for the "dmars" word :-)
- eles (5/6) Jun 17 2011 I think that would be a bad change. The main point of D is that it
- Jesse Phillips (4/9) Jun 17 2011 Yes.
- Simon (6/15) Jun 17 2011 And there's all the libraries which start or end w/ d would need
- Andrej Mitrovic (2/2) Jun 17 2011 The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a
- Benjamin Lindley (3/5) Jun 17 2011 But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily
- Mike James (3/8) Jun 17 2011 Drainfuck it is then...
- Simon (5/14) Jun 17 2011 Sounds like a plumbing service.
- Caligo (1/1) Jun 17 2011 We could call it Caligo. I always wanted a programming language named a...
- Walter Bright (2/7) Jun 17 2011 Searching for "D programming" works just fine. Use the quotes.
- alphabeta (8/17) Jun 18 2011 Just about nobody understands (web) searching with "'s.
- Daniel Gibson (5/28) Jun 18 2011 Won't help at all, non-alphabetic chars like + are usually ignored in
- alphabeta (7/35) Jun 18 2011 Any maybe an exception for .Net's C# as well?
- Daniel Gibson (10/53) Jun 18 2011 there may be special cases for some well know terms like C++, C#, ...
- Andrej Mitrovic (2/7) Jun 18 2011 What exactly are the searching problems you have with D?
- Benjamin Lindley (7/16) Jun 18 2011 As one simple example, try searching for "D http client library". None
- Benjamin Lindley (4/21) Jun 18 2011 You'll also notice that it occasionally matches on words that end in 'd,...
- Nick Sabalausky (3/24) Jun 18 2011 Sounds like more of a Google problem.
- Manfred Hansen (9/14) Jun 18 2011 Yes, i think it is a good idear.
- Jonathan M Davis (26/44) Jun 18 2011 It was originally the Mars language, but because it was effectively C+++...
- Daniel Gibson (17/21) Jun 18 2011 I agree for C, but not for Java, Python etc. (And C was already big
- Walter Bright (3/7) Jun 18 2011 I also regularly harangue people who write about D to use the phrase "D
- Mike James (4/9) Jun 20 2011 You could call it Symbol...
- Nick Sabalausky (4/13) Jun 20 2011 I'm detecting a reference to "The artist formerly known as 'the artist
I'm new to this language, and so far, I really like it. But that name is unsearchable. Don't you guys think that hinders the language from catching on? Yes, you can search for D Programming Language, but that doesn't help find pages where the author only calls it D. Is it too late to change the name? Possibly deprecate it?
Jun 17 2011
Benjamin Lindley:Is it too late to change the name? Possibly deprecate it?Google gives me only 93000 hits for the "dmars" word :-) Bye, bearophile
Jun 17 2011
== Quote from Benjamin Lindley (benjameslindley gmail.com)'s articleIs it too late to change the name? Possibly deprecate it?I think that would be a bad change. The main point of D is that it positions itself in the B/C(C++) line. Yes, searching for "d programming language" is a bit tricky, but what about "c programming language"?
Jun 17 2011
Benjamin Lindley Wrote:I'm new to this language, and so far, I really like it. But that name is unsearchable. Don't you guys think that hinders the language from catching on? Yes, you can search for D Programming Language, but that doesn't help find pages where the author only calls it D. Is it too late to change the name? Possibly deprecate it?Yes. Also D Programming Language does work well even for those that just call it D since usually the page will also mention programming or languages. Must people will use the full description at least once. D has already made a name for itself, both good and bad. And if we did change the name it would become 100% more difficult to find because everything would be referencing the D programming language and not blah blah.
Jun 17 2011
On 17/06/2011 21:27, Jesse Phillips wrote:Benjamin Lindley Wrote:And there's all the libraries which start or end w/ d would need renaming! :) -- My enormous talent is exceeded only by my outrageous laziness. http://www.ssTk.co.ukI'm new to this language, and so far, I really like it. But that name is unsearchable. Don't you guys think that hinders the language from catching on? Yes, you can search for D Programming Language, but that doesn't help find pages where the author only calls it D. Is it too late to change the name? Possibly deprecate it?Yes. Also D Programming Language does work well even for those that just call it D since usually the page will also mention programming or languages. Must people will use the full description at least once. D has already made a name for itself, both good and bad. And if we did change the name it would become 100% more difficult to find because everything would be referencing the D programming language and not blah blah.
Jun 17 2011
The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.
Jun 17 2011
On 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 17 2011
"Benjamin Lindley" <benjameslindley gmail.com> wrote in message news:itgemj$2p61$1 digitalmars.com...On 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:Drainfuck it is then...The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 17 2011
On 17/06/2011 21:51, Mike James wrote:"Benjamin Lindley"<benjameslindley gmail.com> wrote in message news:itgemj$2p61$1 digitalmars.com...Sounds like a plumbing service. -- My enormous talent is exceeded only by my outrageous laziness. http://www.ssTk.co.ukOn 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:Drainfuck it is then...The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 17 2011
We could call it Caligo. I always wanted a programming language named after me.
Jun 17 2011
On 6/17/2011 1:45 PM, Benjamin Lindley wrote:On 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:Searching for "D programming" works just fine. Use the quotes.The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 17 2011
On 18/06/11 1:26 PM, Walter Bright wrote:On 6/17/2011 1:45 PM, Benjamin Lindley wrote:Just about nobody understands (web) searching with "'s. Of course the advanced (web) searcher knows that the use of "'s are often indispensible and dammed if you don't. It was a boon when Google started to recognize non alpha characters such as '+' so it is now easy to search for C++ material. So here's an idea, call D2 D++. :-) abOn 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:Searching for "D programming" works just fine. Use the quotes.The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 18 2011
Am 18.06.2011 16:47, schrieb alphabeta:On 18/06/11 1:26 PM, Walter Bright wrote:Won't help at all, non-alphabetic chars like + are usually ignored in the search index (maybe there's an explicit exception for "c++"). Cheers, - DanielOn 6/17/2011 1:45 PM, Benjamin Lindley wrote:Just about nobody understands (web) searching with "'s. Of course the advanced (web) searcher knows that the use of "'s are often indispensible and dammed if you don't. It was a boon when Google started to recognize non alpha characters such as '+' so it is now easy to search for C++ material. So here's an idea, call D2 D++. :-) abOn 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:Searching for "D programming" works just fine. Use the quotes.The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 18 2011
On 19/06/11 12:21 AM, Daniel Gibson wrote:Am 18.06.2011 16:47, schrieb alphabeta:About 188,000,000 results (0.11 seconds) ... with first dozen pages of results all about C Sharp PL. dunno abOn 18/06/11 1:26 PM, Walter Bright wrote:Won't help at all, non-alphabetic chars like + are usually ignored in the search index (maybe there's an explicit exception for "c++"). Cheers, - DanielOn 6/17/2011 1:45 PM, Benjamin Lindley wrote:Just about nobody understands (web) searching with"'s. Of course the advanced (web) searcher knows that the use of "'s are often indispensible and dammed if you don't. It was a boon when Google started to recognize non alpha characters such as '+' so it is now easy to search for C++ material. So here's an idea, call D2 D++. :-) abOn 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:Searching for "D programming" works just fine. Use the quotes.The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 18 2011
Am 18.06.2011 17:05, schrieb alphabeta:On 19/06/11 12:21 AM, Daniel Gibson wrote:if you search with source code snippets (or error messages containing a lot of non alphabetical characters) on normal google, you often get results that don't contain the non-alpha chars at all, because they are stripped. hmm I just realized that google does *not* ignore ++ (even though itAm 18.06.2011 16:47, schrieb alphabeta:About 188,000,000 results (0.11 seconds) ... with first dozen pages of results all about C Sharp PL. dunno abOn 18/06/11 1:26 PM, Walter Bright wrote:Won't help at all, non-alphabetic chars like + are usually ignored in the search index (maybe there's an explicit exception for "c++"). Cheers, - DanielOn 6/17/2011 1:45 PM, Benjamin Lindley wrote:Just about nobody understands (web) searching with"'s. Of course the advanced (web) searcher knows that the use of "'s are often indispensible and dammed if you don't. It was a boon when Google started to recognize non alpha characters such as '+' so it is now easy to search for C++ material. So here's an idea, call D2 D++. :-) abOn 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:Searching for "D programming" works just fine. Use the quotes.The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 18 2011
On 6/17/11, Benjamin Lindley <benjameslindley gmail.com> wrote:On 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:What exactly are the searching problems you have with D?The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 18 2011
On 6/18/2011 5:45 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:On 6/17/11, Benjamin Lindley<benjameslindley gmail.com> wrote:As one simple example, try searching for "D http client library". None of the hits have anything to do with D. It may not be a huge problem, but I think small things like this will contribute to people deciding that it's too hard to get help on things and just give up on the language instead. I don't really think the language can afford those losses.On 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:What exactly are the searching problems you have with D?The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 18 2011
On 6/18/2011 12:24 PM, Benjamin Lindley wrote:On 6/18/2011 5:45 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:You'll also notice that it occasionally matches on words that end in 'd, like you'd, we'd, etc... C and C++ do not share that problem.On 6/17/11, Benjamin Lindley<benjameslindley gmail.com> wrote:As one simple example, try searching for "D http client library". None of the hits have anything to do with D. It may not be a huge problem, but I think small things like this will contribute to people deciding that it's too hard to get help on things and just give up on the language instead. I don't really think the language can afford those losses.On 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:What exactly are the searching problems you have with D?The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 18 2011
"Benjamin Lindley" <benjameslindley gmail.com> wrote in message news:itinl7$12u9$2 digitalmars.com...On 6/18/2011 12:24 PM, Benjamin Lindley wrote:Sounds like more of a Google problem.On 6/18/2011 5:45 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:You'll also notice that it occasionally matches on words that end in 'd, like you'd, we'd, etc...On 6/17/11, Benjamin Lindley<benjameslindley gmail.com> wrote:As one simple example, try searching for "D http client library". None of the hits have anything to do with D. It may not be a huge problem, but I think small things like this will contribute to people deciding that it's too hard to get help on things and just give up on the language instead. I don't really think the language can afford those losses.On 6/17/2011 3:33 PM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:What exactly are the searching problems you have with D?The reason D is not as "searchable" as C or C++ is because D is a small community. It has absolutely nothing to do with the name.But if D had a name like Brainfuck, it would be even more easily searchable than C or C++, regardless of the size of it's community.
Jun 18 2011
Benjamin Lindley wrote:I'm new to this language, and so far, I really like it. But that name is unsearchable. Don't you guys think that hinders the language from catching on? Yes, you can search for D Programming Language, but that doesn't help find pages where the author only calls it D. Is it too late to change the name? Possibly deprecate it?Yes, i think it is a good idear. This questions pop up sometimes earlier, i read this newsgroup since 2003. My feeling is that renaming the langauge would be better for publicity, but Walter didn't do that. I think the language should at least 3 character. Maybe we should vote to keep the old or for an new language name. Manfred
Jun 18 2011
On 2011-06-18 01:49, Manfred Hansen wrote:Benjamin Lindley wrote:It was originally the Mars language, but because it was effectively C+++, people kept calling it D, and the name stuck. There have been 2 books published on the D programming language. Lots of people have heard about D. The fact that its name is D does indicate to people that it's related to C and/or C++. It's a known and recognized name even if not all that many people have really tried the language out. Yes, the name sucks for searching, but changing it at this point would be lose a _ton_ of name recognition, and it's quite possible to search for "d programming" or "d programming language." Perhaps the language really should have stayed as Mars, or maybe it should have had a more unique name than that, but at this point, it's far too late. We'd lose _far_ more than we'd gain at this point by changing the name. That ship has long since sailed. However, if you really think about it, how many successful programming languages have particularly unique names, and for how many programming languages was their success at all tied in with their name? I mean C, Java, Python, Perl, Ruby, etc. These are all names which would be horrible to search for if it weren't for the fact that their so big at this point a large portion of the hits is for them instead of the words that their names come from. As D grows, it will eventually be in the same category as them, and even searching for plain "D" will give many more hits. It just takes time. And we'd do far better to stabilize the language and libraries and make them fantastic so that people will _want_ to search for it and use it than we would to go and change the name. Ultimately, the name doesn't mean all that much. What matters is what the language can do and how much people use it. - Jonathan M DavisI'm new to this language, and so far, I really like it. But that name is unsearchable. Don't you guys think that hinders the language from catching on? Yes, you can search for D Programming Language, but that doesn't help find pages where the author only calls it D. Is it too late to change the name? Possibly deprecate it?Yes, i think it is a good idear. This questions pop up sometimes earlier, i read this newsgroup since 2003. My feeling is that renaming the langauge would be better for publicity, but Walter didn't do that. I think the language should at least 3 character. Maybe we should vote to keep the old or for an new language name.
Jun 18 2011
Am 18.06.2011 11:52, schrieb Jonathan M Davis:I mean C, Java, Python, Perl, Ruby, etc. These are all names which would be horrible to search for if it weren't for the fact that their so big at this point a large portion of the hits is for them instead of the words that their names come from.I agree for C, but not for Java, Python etc. (And C was already big enough when the internet started, so it's not that much of a problem) Their name is not unique (like Brainfuck probably is), but if you search for it in the context of programming you probably won't get results about coffee, snakes, ... If you search for D in the context of programming, it's not that great - many pages that have nothing to do with D contain Ds. But if you search for "foobar d programming language" you get pretty good results - even though some may be missing because some people may only mention D on their homepage and not "D programming language" or "programing language D". I'd have preferred another name (like mars - "phobos" makes much more sense when the language is called "mars"), but I think we can live with it and it's definitely to late to change. Cheers, - Daniel
Jun 18 2011
On 6/18/2011 7:33 AM, Daniel Gibson wrote:But if you search for "foobar d programming language" you get pretty good results - even though some may be missing because some people may only mention D on their homepage and not "D programming language" or "programing language D".I also regularly harangue people who write about D to use the phrase "D programming language" somewhere in their article.
Jun 18 2011
"Benjamin Lindley" <benjameslindley gmail.com> wrote in message news:itgcgc$2lnk$1 digitalmars.com...I'm new to this language, and so far, I really like it. But that name is unsearchable. Don't you guys think that hinders the language from catching on? Yes, you can search for D Programming Language, but that doesn't help find pages where the author only calls it D. Is it too late to change the name? Possibly deprecate it?You could call it Symbol... The Language Formally Known As D.
Jun 20 2011
"Mike James" <foo bar.com> wrote in message news:itn6h2$3og$1 digitalmars.com..."Benjamin Lindley" <benjameslindley gmail.com> wrote in message news:itgcgc$2lnk$1 digitalmars.com...I'm detecting a reference to "The artist formerly known as 'the artist formerly known as Prince'". That's a long name, but he earned it ;)I'm new to this language, and so far, I really like it. But that name is unsearchable. Don't you guys think that hinders the language from catching on? Yes, you can search for D Programming Language, but that doesn't help find pages where the author only calls it D. Is it too late to change the name? Possibly deprecate it?You could call it Symbol... The Language Formally Known As D.
Jun 20 2011