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digitalmars.D - Dlang forum: some feature requests

reply biocyberman <biocyberman gmail.com> writes:
 Admins: Please move to the right place for me if this is not the 
right one.

1. Code formatting seems to be support in all other parts of 
dlang.org, but not in the forum. It would be nice to be able to 
format code for readability.

2. Automatic exclude ones own text to avoid 'overquoting'. So 
when user replies some post, just quote the text of the user who 
one is replying.

3. Show previous posts below the reply editing area so user can 
scroll, re-read or copy some texts from there.

Thanks!
Apr 08 2017
parent reply Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow.lists gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 8 April 2017 at 12:15:45 UTC, biocyberman wrote:

  Admins: Please move to the right place for me if this is not 
 the right one.

 1. Code formatting seems to be support in all other parts of 
 dlang.org, but not in the forum. It would be nice to be able to 
 format code for readability.


This is planned in a future update, as part of Markdown support.


 2. Automatic exclude ones own text to avoid 'overquoting'. So 
 when user replies some post, just quote the text of the user 
 who one is replying.


The forum software will already detect overquoting, and offer to 
trim down quoted text automatically.

Sometimes, more than one level of context is required, when the 
parent's post provides no context, such as replies like "What do 
you mean?" or "I don't think this is true".


 3. Show previous posts below the reply editing area so user can 
 scroll, re-read or copy some texts from there.


I will keep this suggestion in mind; however, copying text from 
multiple posts for the purpose of replying to several posts at 
once goes against the threaded nature of the underlying medium 
(newsgroup/email messages), and the forum will warn against this 
if it detects such an attempt.


 Thanks!


Thanks for the feedback.
Apr 08 2017
next sibling parent reply biocyberman <biocyberman gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 8 April 2017 at 12:34:56 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

 On Saturday, 8 April 2017 at 12:15:45 UTC, biocyberman wrote:



 This is planned in a future update, as part of Markdown support.


So it is coming. This is great.


 The forum software will already detect overquoting, and offer 
 to trim down quoted text automatically.

 Sometimes, more than one level of context is required, when the 
 parent's post provides no context, such as replies like "What 
 do you mean?" or "I don't think this is true".


Yes, quoting only "I don't think this is true" does not make 
sense. However, as the way the forum is doing now: 100% of the 
third posts - like the one I am posting now - prompt manual 
delete (i.e. user A post, user B reply, user A reply user B post, 
and here he faces overquoting filter, and have to manually delete 
quote text.) I would not use the force overquoting option. So the 
gain for avoiding 'sometimes' silly post does not weigh over the 
third post cases, which happens much more frequently. And after 
all, users does have interest to make there posts meaningful, so 
he/she will copy and quote the relevant parts.


 however, copying text from multiple posts for the purpose of 
 replying to several posts at once goes against the threaded 
 nature of the underlying medium (newsgroup/email messages),


Here it depends how the forum developers envision the core 
functionality. In my opinion, making a forum to fit 
newsgroup/email threads conventions will limit its online 
interaction features (i.e. text format, multimedia, user 
interaction, etc). Mailing list is one thing, forum is another 
thing; so making the current forum act as both will be difficult. 
If the interface of a normal forum software is too convoluted, 
the Quest and Answer interface like that of StackOverflow may be 
a good alternative.


and the forum will warn against
 this if it detects such an attempt.


Again, it is user best interests to make the post convey what 
they want to say. A mechanistic enforcement requires much work to 
make sense to human users. Maybe someday a advanced AI forum 
engine can do a good job =)


 Thanks for the feedback.


That's my pleasure. I hope dlang.org is a lively showcase of what 
D can offer.
Apr 09 2017
parent reply Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow.lists gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 9 April 2017 at 12:45:58 UTC, biocyberman wrote:

 and here he faces overquoting filter, and have to manually 
 delete quote text


Snipping irrelevant quoted parts when replying is part of the 
normal way to use e-mail and newsgroups, so I don't see a problem 
here.

When the forum software detects overquoting, it will offer to 
remove excessive quoting automatically (with an undo option).


 so he/she will copy and quote the relevant parts.


If part of the expected workflow of any system involves copying 
and pasting, it's a good indicator there is something wrong with 
the design.


 Mailing list is one thing, forum is another thing; so making 
 the current forum act as both will be difficult.


This has already been done.


 If the interface of a normal forum software is too convoluted, 
 the Quest and Answer interface like that of StackOverflow may 
 be a good alternative.


The D tag on StackOverflow is monitored by many regulars of these 
forums as well, and D-tagged questions get announced to the IRC 
channel, so if you prefer that interface, there's no reason to 
not simply use StackOverflow.


and the forum will warn against
 this if it detects such an attempt.


 Again, it is user best interests to make the post convey what 
 they want to say. A mechanistic enforcement requires much work 
 to make sense to human users.


This warning will only be displayed if the user attempts to fight 
against the forum software's UI and intentionally uses it in a 
way it was not designed to be used. Using it in the proper way 
(multiple replies to each post the user wants to reply to) is 
easier, and will make the thread easier to read for people 
reading the forums by email, a newsgroup client, or using the web 
interface in its alternative view modes 
(http://forum.dlang.org/help#view-modes).
Apr 09 2017
parent reply biocyberman <biocyberman gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 9 April 2017 at 12:56:48 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:


 Mailing list is one thing, forum is another thing; so making 
 the current forum act as both will be difficult.


 This has already been done.


If you decide it is done. It is hard to say anything further. 
Respect your choice but I am not with you.


 The D tag on StackOverflow is monitored by many regulars of 
 these forums as well, and D-tagged questions get announced to 
 the IRC channel, so if you prefer that interface, there's no 
 reason to not simply use StackOverflow.


Well, does this mean that dlang.org does not have strong 
intention to keep this forum as the main gathering point for D 
community? Because if you guys do, it is good idea to make it a 
feature-rich forum, not a minimalist to keep the output 
compatible with that of a mail thread. For example: I can't edit 
my post, this is because a mail thread does not allow that (i.e. 
one can't edit the sent messages)?

I've given the feedback. I will head over SO for now.
Apr 11 2017
parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 12:12:05 UTC, biocyberman wrote:


 Well, does this mean that dlang.org does not have strong 
 intention to keep this forum as the main gathering point for D 
 community? Because if you guys do, it is good idea to make it a 
 feature-rich forum, not a minimalist to keep the output 
 compatible with that of a mail thread. For example: I can't 
 edit my post, this is because a mail thread does not allow that 
 (i.e. one can't edit the sent messages)?

 I've given the feedback. I will head over SO for now.


The forum is a web interface to an existing newsgroup server that 
has been the backbone of D community discussions since the 
beginning. The web interface (I've always found the usage of 
"forum" in this case to raise false expectations) does not 
maintain the authoritative database. Any features that are added 
to the web interface need to take into consideration all of the 
users who access it via newsreaders and mail clients.
Apr 11 2017
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Marco Leise <Marco.Leise gmx.de> writes:
Am Sat, 08 Apr 2017 12:34:56 +0000
schrieb Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow.lists gmail.com>:


 This is planned in a future update, as part of Markdown support.


That will be a web front-end rendering feature only, I guess.
_Someone_ should write Markdown rendering plugins for popular
news readers. What mime type will the Markdown enhanced
messages use? text/plain or text/markdown as per
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown ?

-- 
Marco
Apr 09 2017
parent reply Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow.lists gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 9 April 2017 at 12:55:57 UTC, Marco Leise wrote:

 Am Sat, 08 Apr 2017 12:34:56 +0000
 schrieb Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow.lists gmail.com>:


 This is planned in a future update, as part of Markdown 
 support.


 That will be a web front-end rendering feature only, I guess. 
 _Someone_ should write Markdown rendering plugins for popular 
 news readers. What mime type will the Markdown enhanced 
 messages use? text/plain or text/markdown as per 
 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown ?


text/plain because text/markdown will appear as an unreadable 
attachment for most clients (not least Gmail).
Apr 09 2017
parent reply crimaniak <crimaniak gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 9 April 2017 at 12:58:30 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 _Someone_ should write Markdown rendering plugins for popular 
 news readers. What mime type will the Markdown enhanced 
 messages use? text/plain or text/markdown as per 
 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown ?


 text/plain because text/markdown will appear as an unreadable 
 attachment for most clients (not least Gmail).


  IMHO, it's better to do the same as with HTML letters: 
text/markdown body + text/plain body for clients not supporting 
markdown.
Apr 10 2017
next sibling parent reply Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow.lists gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 10 April 2017 at 09:35:30 UTC, crimaniak wrote:

  IMHO, it's better to do the same as with HTML letters: 
 text/markdown body + text/plain body for clients not supporting 
 markdown.


Multipart messages have their issues.

Are there any clients which will render a text/markdown part as 
Markdown? I'm not aware of any.
Apr 10 2017
parent reply Marco Leise <Marco.Leise gmx.de> writes:
Am Mon, 10 Apr 2017 12:24:15 +0000
schrieb Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow.lists gmail.com>:


 On Monday, 10 April 2017 at 09:35:30 UTC, crimaniak wrote:

  IMHO, it's better to do the same as with HTML letters: 
 text/markdown body + text/plain body for clients not supporting 
 markdown.  


 
 Multipart messages have their issues.
 
 Are there any clients which will render a text/markdown part as 
 Markdown? I'm not aware of any.


Claws Mail renders it the same as text/plain. I don't know
what other news clients do, but the idea to render all text/*
as text/plain goes a long way until a proper plugin is
available. (text/html without a plugin is really
horrible though)
I think once a big player starts to support Markdown the rest
will follow, but it makes no sense for the Dlang news groups
to try and get the ball rolling.
(A problem with HTML mail is the great flexibility. Some mails
are unreadable on a dark color scheme or the different fonts
and sizes drive you mad.)

-- 
Marco
Apr 11 2017
parent Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow.lists gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 16:23:15 UTC, Marco Leise wrote:

 (A problem with HTML mail is the great flexibility. Some mails
 are unreadable on a dark color scheme or the different fonts
 and sizes drive you mad.)


We could do what GitHub does and send Markdown in text/plain and 
Markdown-rendered-to-HTML in text/html.
Apr 11 2017
prev sibling parent Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow.lists gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 10 April 2017 at 09:35:30 UTC, crimaniak wrote:

  IMHO, it's better to do the same as with HTML letters: 
 text/markdown body + text/plain body for clients not supporting 
 markdown.


BTW, this would mean sending exactly the same text twice, just 
with a different Content-Type.
Apr 10 2017
prev sibling parent XavierAP <n3minis-git yahoo.es> writes:
On Saturday, 8 April 2017 at 12:34:56 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev 
wrote:

 Thanks for the feedback.


What I miss most is to split the General board, as everything 
gets buried too quick because it's too messy with different topic 
categories together:

- Development (of projects not internal to D)
- Suggestions
- Discussion about news, links to articles, Youtube etc.
- Etc.

I miss too the ability to edit posts for typos etc. But this is 
incompatible with email/NNTP, I can live without it.
Apr 10 2017