digitalmars.D - start on SIMD documentation

https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/blob/master/simd.dd

and core.simd:

https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/simd.d

Jan 13 2012

Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:

On 13/01/12 8:39 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/blob/master/simd.dd


 and core.simd:

 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/simd.d


Nice!

Although...

import core.simd;
void main()
{
     float4 a = void; // float a; doesn't work either
     a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a);
}

*** Internal error: backend/cgcod.c 2048 ***

Are all those instructions implemented? I seem to get the same for all 
instructions.

Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like 
int4 for vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit 
integer, or int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for 
vectors may be confusing.

As for what to change it to, I don't really care. int4v, vec_int4, 
int_vector4, anything. It doesn't matter.

Jan 13 2012

Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:

On 13/01/12 7:06 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:39 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/blob/master/simd.dd



 and core.simd:

 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/simd.d


 Nice!

 Although...

 import core.simd;
 void main()
 {
 float4 a = void; // float a; doesn't work either
 a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a);
 }

 *** Internal error: backend/cgcod.c 2048 ***

 Are all those instructions implemented? I seem to get the same for all
 instructions.

 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like
 int4 for vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit
 integer, or int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for
 vectors may be confusing.

 As for what to change it to, I don't really care. int4v, vec_int4,
 int_vector4, anything. It doesn't matter.


Sorry, the code was meant to be:

import core.simd;
void main()
{
     float4 a = void;
     a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a, a);
}

The error was for this code.

Jan 13 2012

bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:

Peter Alexander:

 I'm not so sure on using names like 
 int4 for vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit 
 integer, or int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for 
 vectors may be confusing.
 
 As for what to change it to, I don't really care. int4v, vec_int4, 
 int_vector4, anything. It doesn't matter.


It's not confusing for D programmers. But if you want to be on the safe side
then int4v or vint4 sound acceptable.

Bye,
bearophile

Jan 13 2012

Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> writes:

On 13 January 2012 19:18, Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> wrote:
 On 13 January 2012 19:06, Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> =


 On 13/01/12 8:39 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/bl=






 and core.simd:


 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core=








 Nice!

 Although...

 import core.simd;
 void main()
 {
 =A0 =A0float4 a =3D void; // float a; doesn't work either
 =A0 =A0a =3D simd(XMM.PXOR, a);
 }

 *** Internal error: backend/cgcod.c 2048 ***

 Are all those instructions implemented? I seem to get the same for all
 instructions.

 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like int=




 for vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit integer, o=




 int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for vectors may be
 confusing.

 As for what to change it to, I don't really care. int4v, vec_int4,
 int_vector4, anything. It doesn't matter.


 This is probably intelligable, but makes sense to me.

 Change =A0 int4 =A0-> =A0v4si

 Vector names that reflect the MODE they represent, rather than the TYPE.


Unintelligible, even...


--=20
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) =3D (c & 0x0f) + '0';

Jan 13 2012

Mehrdad <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 11:06 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:39 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org
blob/master/simd.dd 



 and core.simd:

 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/simd.d 


 Nice!

 Although...

 import core.simd;
 void main()
 {
     float4 a = void; // float a; doesn't work either
     a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a);
 }


Er... is there any reason why we're using such a cryptic PXOR value 
instead of operator overloading?

Jan 13 2012

Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:

On 13/01/12 8:02 PM, Mehrdad wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 11:06 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:39 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/blob/master/simd.dd



 and core.simd:

 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/simd.d


 Nice!

 Although...

 import core.simd;
 void main()
 {
 float4 a = void; // float a; doesn't work either
 a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a);
 }


 Er... is there any reason why we're using such a cryptic PXOR value
 instead of operator overloading?


I imagine Walter will add the operator overloads later.

The simd(op, ...) syntax is more flexible though because it allows you 
to select instructions that don't directly map to any standard operator 
(e.g. shuffles).

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 12:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:02 PM, Mehrdad wrote:
 Er... is there any reason why we're using such a cryptic PXOR value
 instead of operator overloading?


 I imagine Walter will add the operator overloads later.


Right. simd() is just the bottom layer building block. It's a compiler 
intrinsic, and I don't want to make every overload a compiler intrinsic.


 The simd(op, ...) syntax is more flexible though because it allows you to
select
 instructions that don't directly map to any standard operator (e.g. shuffles).


What's our vector, Victor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y

Jan 13 2012

Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:

On 1/13/12 2:41 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 12:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:02 PM, Mehrdad wrote:
 Er... is there any reason why we're using such a cryptic PXOR value
 instead of operator overloading?


 I imagine Walter will add the operator overloads later.


 Right. simd() is just the bottom layer building block. It's a compiler
 intrinsic, and I don't want to make every overload a compiler intrinsic.


People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?

Andrei

Jan 13 2012

Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:

On 13/01/12 10:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 2:41 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 12:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:02 PM, Mehrdad wrote:
 Er... is there any reason why we're using such a cryptic PXOR value
 instead of operator overloading?


 I imagine Walter will add the operator overloads later.


 Right. simd() is just the bottom layer building block. It's a compiler
 intrinsic, and I don't want to make every overload a compiler intrinsic.


 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?


Why would people want to do that?

Also, no, it can't possibly work. It just makes no sense.

Jan 13 2012

Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:

On 1/13/12 5:06 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 10:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 2:41 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 12:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:02 PM, Mehrdad wrote:
 Er... is there any reason why we're using such a cryptic PXOR value
 instead of operator overloading?


 I imagine Walter will add the operator overloads later.


 Right. simd() is just the bottom layer building block. It's a compiler
 intrinsic, and I don't want to make every overload a compiler intrinsic.


 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?


 Why would people want to do that?

 Also, no, it can't possibly work. It just makes no sense.


My point exactly. The chosen syntax must be fixed.

Andrei

Jan 13 2012

Mehrdad <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 3:51 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 5:06 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 10:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 2:41 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 12:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:02 PM, Mehrdad wrote:
 Er... is there any reason why we're using such a cryptic PXOR value
 instead of operator overloading?


 I imagine Walter will add the operator overloads later.


 Right. simd() is just the bottom layer building block. It's a compiler
 intrinsic, and I don't want to make every overload a compiler 
 intrinsic.


 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?


 Why would people want to do that?

 Also, no, it can't possibly work. It just makes no sense.


 My point exactly. The chosen syntax must be fixed.

 Andrei


instead...

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 11:30 PM, Mehrdad wrote:
 Still don't understand why we're not doing it with operator overloading
instead...


1. will not match the C ABI for vector types

2. will not generate correct vector symbolic debug info

3. will not match vector parameter name mangling

4. cannot do constant folding, or any optimizations which require semantic 
knowledge of the vector types

5. cannot optimize across inline asm blocks

6. cannot enregister the simd variables


You'll be worse off than using the existing array vector syntax.

Jan 14 2012

Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:

On 14/01/12 7:30 AM, Mehrdad wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 3:51 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 5:06 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 10:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 2:41 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 12:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:02 PM, Mehrdad wrote:
 Er... is there any reason why we're using such a cryptic PXOR value
 instead of operator overloading?


 I imagine Walter will add the operator overloads later.


 Right. simd() is just the bottom layer building block. It's a compiler
 intrinsic, and I don't want to make every overload a compiler
 intrinsic.


 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?


 Why would people want to do that?

 Also, no, it can't possibly work. It just makes no sense.


 My point exactly. The chosen syntax must be fixed.

 Andrei


 instead...


How do you do a vector shuffle with operator overloading?

Jan 14 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 2:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?


It'll currently fail miserably - it has to be a constant. Otherwise, we have 
runtime code generation. While not impossible, it is a large increase in scope.

Jan 13 2012

Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:

On 1/13/12 4:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 2:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?


 It'll currently fail miserably - it has to be a constant. Otherwise, we
 have runtime code generation. While not impossible, it is a large
 increase in scope.


Then probably the operation should be simd!opcode(arguments). If a 
function is intrinsic it shouldn't have special syntactic rights.

Andrei

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 3:51 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 4:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 2:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?


 It'll currently fail miserably - it has to be a constant. Otherwise, we
 have runtime code generation. While not impossible, it is a large
 increase in scope.


 Then probably the operation should be simd!opcode(arguments). If a function is
 intrinsic it shouldn't have special syntactic rights.


You're right, I'm just not too thrilled about generating hundreds of template 
instantiations.

Jan 13 2012

Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:

On 1/13/12 7:42 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 3:51 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 4:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 2:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?


 It'll currently fail miserably - it has to be a constant. Otherwise, we
 have runtime code generation. While not impossible, it is a large
 increase in scope.


 Then probably the operation should be simd!opcode(arguments). If a
 function is
 intrinsic it shouldn't have special syntactic rights.


 You're right, I'm just not too thrilled about generating hundreds of
 template instantiations.


How is that possibly different from what you have now?

Andrei

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 7:03 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 How is that possibly different from what you have now?


Intrinsic functions are today just a table lookup in the compiler. Template 
intrinsics currently do not exist, so more code needs to be written for them.

Jan 13 2012

Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:

On 1/13/12 10:03 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 7:03 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 How is that possibly different from what you have now?


 Intrinsic functions are today just a table lookup in the compiler.


They're a table lookup if the operation is a compile-time constant. So 
this argument does not apply.

 Template intrinsics currently do not exist, so more code needs to be
 written for them.


The same table lookup could be done, except in this case it would be 
more principled.


Andrei

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 8:52 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 10:03 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 7:03 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 How is that possibly different from what you have now?


 Intrinsic functions are today just a table lookup in the compiler.


 They're a table lookup if the operation is a compile-time constant. So this
 argument does not apply.

 Template intrinsics currently do not exist, so more code needs to be
 written for them.


 The same table lookup could be done, except in this case it would be more
 principled.


You and I are talking about different things.

The current compiler looks for intrinsics after all template functions are 
converted into real functions. The mangled name is looked up in a table to see
if:

1. it is an intrinsic function

2. what is the corresponding expression node operator

Doing it for intrinsic functions would require either:

1. adding hundreds of function signatures to the table

2. moving the intrinsic detection to the template instantiation logic

Jan 13 2012

Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:

On 1/13/12 11:02 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 8:52 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 10:03 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 7:03 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 How is that possibly different from what you have now?


 Intrinsic functions are today just a table lookup in the compiler.


 They're a table lookup if the operation is a compile-time constant. So
 this
 argument does not apply.

 Template intrinsics currently do not exist, so more code needs to be
 written for them.


 The same table lookup could be done, except in this case it would be more
 principled.


 You and I are talking about different things.


No. Please hear me out.

 The current compiler looks for intrinsics after all template functions
 are converted into real functions. The mangled name is looked up in a
 table to see if:

 1. it is an intrinsic function

 2. what is the corresponding expression node operator

 Doing it for intrinsic functions would require either:

 1. adding hundreds of function signatures to the table

 2. moving the intrinsic detection to the template instantiation logic


So this is an implementation issue that has nothing to do with doing the 
right thing. That's no reason to do the wrong thing. The real problem 
with the current approach is as follows.

Defining an intrinsic function is cheating. It means the language's 
facilities are unable to expose computation to the compiler in a manner 
that makes it able to translate it to efficient code. This in turn 
points to problems in either the language or the compiler technology.

To a good extent these are known issues of the state of the art. There 
are advantages to e.g. making integers intrinsic types and imbuing the 
compiler with understanding of basic arithmetic identities. Or it makes 
sense to define integral rotation as an intrinsic function (or devise a 
peephole optimization that detects the pattern) because it's one 
assembler operation deriving from a rather involved algorithm. So 
intrinsics are a necessary evil.

On to your implementation of simd, which is

simd(opcode, op1, op2)

This is a lie - it's cheating twice. The expression looks like a 
function but does not feel like a function. The first argument, the 
opcode, is NOT a function parameter. It's part of the function. Passing 
a variable in there does not work as a matter of design - the generated 
code depends on that so opcode must be known during compilation.

So what do we have to integrate the cheating operation within the 
current language semantics? I can think of two. First, make the operand 
part of the function name:

simdOPCODE(op1, op2)

This is reasonable because it acknowledges what really happens - each 
function has its identity and its generated code.

The second, spaceship-era approach (and closer to the current 
implementation) is to make the first argument a template parameter. This 
is because template parameters must be known during compilation, which 
is exactly opcode's requirement:

simd!opcode(op1, op2)

Either approach should work perfectly fine; it "cheats in style" by 
using an existing language construct that exactly matches the 
special-cased capability. The current approach cheats badly - it messes 
with the language's fabric by defining a construct that's not a function 
but looks like one.

I'd be in your debt if you could at least do the right thing when 
defining new intrinsics.


Thanks,

Andrei

Jan 16 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/16/2012 8:38 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 Either approach should work perfectly fine; it "cheats in style" by using an
 existing language construct that exactly matches the special-cased capability.
 The current approach cheats badly - it messes with the language's fabric by
 defining a construct that's not a function but looks like one.


You're right, it is cheating.

 I'd be in your debt if you could at least do the right thing when defining new
 intrinsics.


We can talk about that some more. At some point, there's going to have to be 
some compiler magic going on.

Jan 16 2012

Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:

On 1/16/12 1:32 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/16/2012 8:38 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 Either approach should work perfectly fine; it "cheats in style" by
 using an
 existing language construct that exactly matches the special-cased
 capability.
 The current approach cheats badly - it messes with the language's
 fabric by
 defining a construct that's not a function but looks like one.


 You're right, it is cheating.

 I'd be in your debt if you could at least do the right thing when
 defining new
 intrinsics.


 We can talk about that some more. At some point, there's going to have
 to be some compiler magic going on.


OK. The overarching point is that the magic should be virtually 
indistinguishable from using the regular constructs. It's an 
optimization, and just like with any other optimization, you don't 
expect it to change the meaning of a construct.

Andrei

Jan 16 2012

Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:

On 13/01/12 7:49 PM, Manu wrote:
 On 13 January 2012 21:06, Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com
 <mailto:peter.alexander.au gmail.com>> wrote:

     Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like
     int4 for vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit
     integer, or int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for
     vectors may be confusing.


 I had the same feeling.
 short8 really made me instanytly uncomfortable. I'm so used to seeing a
 number on the end of a trivial type as being the width in bits. Even
 though I knew exactly what I was looking at, I still unconsciously
 assumed this was an 8bit type...

 It makes perfect sense for float4, since it's completely absurd to
 imagine a 4bit float, and it's also conventional from Cg and HLSL.
 I wonder if there's a nice naming convention to mitigate this problem?
 Perhaps vshort8? Or some other small prefix/suffix?


Honestly, I be happy with any name as long as it was unambiguous.

vshort8
short8v
short8_v
vec_short8
vec8_short
short_vec8
short_v8
...

Anything will do. Just stick a v, vec, or vector somewhere and I'll be 
happy.

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 11:06 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 import core.simd;
 void main()
 {
 float4 a = void; // float a; doesn't work either
 a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a);
 }

 *** Internal error: backend/cgcod.c 2048 ***

 Are all those instructions implemented? I seem to get the same for all
 instructions.


The instructions are implemented, it's the initialization that isn't and is
failing.


 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like int4 for
 vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit integer, or int8 to
 mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for vectors may be confusing.

 As for what to change it to, I don't really care. int4v, vec_int4, int_vector4,
 anything. It doesn't matter.


If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.

Jan 13 2012

Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:

On 13/01/12 8:37 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 11:06 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 import core.simd;
 void main()
 {
 float4 a = void; // float a; doesn't work either
 a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a);
 }

 *** Internal error: backend/cgcod.c 2048 ***

 Are all those instructions implemented? I seem to get the same for all
 instructions.


 The instructions are implemented, it's the initialization that isn't and
 is failing.


Oh ok.

So is there any way to use them at the moment? None of these work:

float4 a = void;
float4 b;
float4 c = [.0f, .0f, .0f, .0f];
float[4] v = [.0f, .0f, .0f, .0f];
float4 d = v;

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 12:59 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 So is there any way to use them at the moment?


Not unless you want to use inline asm to initialize them :-)

I wouldn't bother, though, I hope to get initializing working shortly.

Jan 13 2012

bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:

Walter:

 What's our vector, Victor?
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y


Thank you Walter :-)


 If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.


Current names:

void16
double2
float4
byte16
ubyte16
short8
ushort8
int4
uint4
long2

Your suggestion:

vvoid16
vdouble2
vfloat4
vbyte16
vubyte16
vshort8
vushort8
vint4
vuint4
vlong2


My suggestion:

void16v
double2v
float4v
byte16v
ubyte16v
short8v
ushort8v
int4v
uint4v
long2v

Bye,
bearophile

Jan 13 2012

Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:

On 1/13/12 3:08 PM, Manu wrote:
 On 13 January 2012 22:57, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com
 <mailto:bearophileHUGS lycos.com>> wrote:

     Walter:

      > What's our vector, Victor?
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y

     Thank you Walter :-)

      > If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.

     Current names:

     void16
     double2
     float4
     byte16
     ubyte16
     short8
     ushort8
     int4
     uint4
     long2

     Your suggestion:

     vvoid16
     vdouble2
     vfloat4
     vbyte16
     vubyte16
     vshort8
     vushort8
     vint4
     vuint4
     vlong2

     My suggestion:

     void16v
     double2v
     float4v
     byte16v
     ubyte16v
     short8v
     ushort8v
     int4v
     uint4v
     long2v

     Bye,
     bearophile

 I think I'd vote for leaving it as it is, swayed by the fact that the
 more ambiguous types are super-rarely used. float4/int4 has a nice
 familiarity with HLSL/Cg.

All names should have a __ prepended, and then the library defines names 
for them such as vec!(int, 4) that obey module lookup and all. Dumping a 
wheelbarrow of confusable new keywords doesn't sound right at all.

Andrei

Jan 13 2012

Timon Gehr <timon.gehr gmx.ch> writes:

On 01/13/2012 11:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 3:08 PM, Manu wrote:
 On 13 January 2012 22:57, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com
 <mailto:bearophileHUGS lycos.com>> wrote:

 Walter:

 What's our vector, Victor?
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y


 Thank you Walter :-)


 If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.


 Current names:

 void16
 double2
 float4
 byte16
 ubyte16
 short8
 ushort8
 int4
 uint4
 long2

 Your suggestion:

 vvoid16
 vdouble2
 vfloat4
 vbyte16
 vubyte16
 vshort8
 vushort8
 vint4
 vuint4
 vlong2


 My suggestion:

 void16v
 double2v
 float4v
 byte16v
 ubyte16v
 short8v
 ushort8v
 int4v
 uint4v
 long2v

 Bye,
 bearophile


 I think I'd vote for leaving it as it is, swayed by the fact that the
 more ambiguous types are super-rarely used. float4/int4 has a nice
 familiarity with HLSL/Cg.


 All names should have a __ prepended, and then the library defines names
 for them such as vec!(int, 4) that obey module lookup and all. Dumping a
 wheelbarrow of confusable new keywords doesn't sound right at all.

 Andrei


All of those are library types defined in core.simd.

For example, float4 is declared as

alias Vector!(float[4]) float4

And Vector simply hides what is built-in.

template Vector(T){
     alias __vector(T) Vector;
}

I think this is a very clean design.

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 2:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 All names should have a __ prepended, and then the library defines names for
 them such as vec!(int, 4) that obey module lookup and all. Dumping a
wheelbarrow
 of confusable new keywords doesn't sound right at all.


They're not keywords, they are (literally) simple aliases:

    alias Vector!(int[4]) int4;

As aliases, they obey all scoping and disambiguation rules, which I think is 
superior to using __ prefixes.

You could use Vector!(int[4]) everywhere instead, but I submit it's a bit
klunky 
to do that and might as well provide a set of aliases (or else people will 
produce their own aliases and they'll all have different spellings).

Jan 13 2012

sclytrack <sclytrack fake.com> writes:

On 01/14/2012 12:00 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 2:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 All names should have a __ prepended, and then the library defines
 names for
 them such as vec!(int, 4) that obey module lookup and all. Dumping a
 wheelbarrow
 of confusable new keywords doesn't sound right at all.


 They're not keywords, they are (literally) simple aliases:

 alias Vector!(int[4]) int4;




v4int



 As aliases, they obey all scoping and disambiguation rules, which I
 think is superior to using __ prefixes.

 You could use Vector!(int[4]) everywhere instead, but I submit it's a
 bit klunky to do that and might as well provide a set of aliases (or
 else people will produce their own aliases and they'll all have
 different spellings).

Jan 14 2012

Sean Cavanaugh <WorksOnMyMachine gmail.com> writes:

What about the 256 bit types that are already present in AVX instruction 
set?

I've written a several C++ based SIMD math libraries (for SSE2 up 
through AVX), and PPC's VMX instruction sets that you can find on game 
consoles.

The variable type naming is probably the most annoying thing to work out.

For HLSL they use float, float1, float2, float3, float4 and int, uint 
and double versions, and this convention works out quite well until you 
start having to deal with smaller integer types or FP16 half floats.

However on the CPU side of things there are signed and unsigned 8, 16, 
32, 64 and 128 bit values.  It gets even more complicated in that not 
all the math operations or comparisons are supported on the non-32 bit 
types.  The hardware is really designed for you to pack and unpack the 
smaller types to 32 bit do the work and pack the results back, and the 
64 bit integer support is also a bit spotty (esp wrt multiply and divide).

On 1/13/2012 2:57 PM, bearophile wrote:
 Walter:

 What's our vector, Victor?
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y


 Thank you Walter :-)


 If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.


 Current names:

 void16
 double2
 float4
 byte16
 ubyte16
 short8
 ushort8
 int4
 uint4
 long2

 Your suggestion:

 vvoid16
 vdouble2
 vfloat4
 vbyte16
 vubyte16
 vshort8
 vushort8
 vint4
 vuint4
 vlong2


 My suggestion:

 void16v
 double2v
 float4v
 byte16v
 ubyte16v
 short8v
 ushort8v
 int4v
 uint4v
 long2v

 Bye,
 bearophile

Jan 14 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/14/2012 9:15 PM, Sean Cavanaugh wrote:
 What about the 256 bit types that are already present in AVX instruction set?


Eventually, I'd like to do them, too.

 I've written a several C++ based SIMD math libraries (for SSE2 up through AVX),
 and PPC's VMX instruction sets that you can find on game consoles.

 The variable type naming is probably the most annoying thing to work out.

 For HLSL they use float, float1, float2, float3, float4 and int, uint and
double
 versions, and this convention works out quite well until you start having to
 deal with smaller integer types or FP16 half floats.

 However on the CPU side of things there are signed and unsigned 8, 16, 32, 64
 and 128 bit values.


I'm not sure why the convention used in std.simd fails here.

 It gets even more complicated in that not all the math
 operations or comparisons are supported on the non-32 bit types.


Right. D is designed to give an error for operations that are not supported, 
rather than downgrade to emulation like gcc does.

Jan 14 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/14/2012 9:52 PM, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 06:21:22 +0100, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com>
 wrote:

 On 1/14/2012 9:15 PM, Sean Cavanaugh wrote:
 What about the 256 bit types that are already present in AVX instruction set?


 Eventually, I'd like to do them, too.


 https://github.com/dawgfoto/dmd/commits/AVXSupport


Nice, how about a pull request?

Jan 14 2012

Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:

On 1/13/12 2:37 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.


Something short must compensate its potential for confusion with 
frequent usage and well-established convention. Arguably neither applies 
here.

Andrei

Jan 13 2012

Timon Gehr <timon.gehr gmx.ch> writes:

On 01/13/2012 11:29 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 1/13/12 2:37 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.


 Something short must compensate its potential for confusion with
 frequent usage and well-established convention. Arguably neither applies
 here.

 Andrei


Both apply.

Frequent usage: Under the precondition that core.simd is imported, of 
course.
Well-Established convention: See GLSL/HLSL/OpenCL/...

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 11:18 AM, Iain Buclaw wrote:
 This is probably intelligable, but makes sense to me.

 Change   int4  ->   v4si


please, no!

 Vector names that reflect the MODE they represent, rather than the TYPE.


??

Jan 13 2012

Manu <turkeyman gmail.com> writes:

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On 13 January 2012 22:37, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like int4
 for
 vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit integer, or
 int8 to
 mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for vectors may be confusing.

 As for what to change it to, I don't really care. int4v, vec_int4,
 int_vector4,
 anything. It doesn't matter.


 If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.


It's a hard call. I like float4/int4, and like the similarity to Cg/HLSL
personally. And these are the types that will be used 99% of the time.
short8 is very rare by comparison... I'm quite apprehensive about making a
compromise for the significantly less frequently used type.
That said, it did make me a little uncomfortable the moment I read it...

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 January 2012 22:37, Walter Bright <span di=
r=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:newshound2 digitalmars.com">newshound2 digi=
talmars.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>Also, slight bikeshedd=
ing issue: I&#39;m not so sure on using names like int4 for<br>
vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit integer, or int8 =
to<br>
mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for vectors may be confusing.<br=


As for what to change it to, I don&#39;t really care. int4v, vec_int4, int_=
vector4,<br>
anything. It doesn&#39;t matter.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
If int4 is out, I&#39;d prefer something like vint4. Something short.<br></=
blockquote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s a hard call. I like float4/int4, an=
d like the similarity to Cg/HLSL personally. And these are the types that w=
ill be used 99% of the time.</div>
<div>short8 is very rare by comparison... I&#39;m quite apprehensive about =
making a compromise for the significantly less frequently used type.</div><=
div>That said, it did make me a little uncomfortable the moment I read it..=
.</div>
</div>

--20cf3074b440cf03bb04b66f0772--

Jan 13 2012

Manu <turkeyman gmail.com> writes:

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On 13 January 2012 22:57, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> wrote:

 Walter:

 What's our vector, Victor?
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y


 Thank you Walter :-)


 If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.


 Current names:

 void16
 double2
 float4
 byte16
 ubyte16
 short8
 ushort8
 int4
 uint4
 long2

 Your suggestion:

 vvoid16
 vdouble2
 vfloat4
 vbyte16
 vubyte16
 vshort8
 vushort8
 vint4
 vuint4
 vlong2


 My suggestion:

 void16v
 double2v
 float4v
 byte16v
 ubyte16v
 short8v
 ushort8v
 int4v
 uint4v
 long2v

 Bye,
 bearophile


I think I'd vote for leaving it as it is, swayed by the fact that the more
ambiguous types are super-rarely used. float4/int4 has a nice familiarity
with HLSL/Cg.

--20cf3074b44002095a04b66f45b3
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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 January 2012 22:57, bearophile <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bearophileHUGS lycos.com">bearophileHUGS lyc=
os.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Walter:<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
&gt; What&#39;s our vector, Victor?<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DfVq4_HhBK8Y" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DfVq4_HhBK8Y</a><br>
<br>
</div>Thank you Walter :-)<br>
<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
&gt; If int4 is out, I&#39;d prefer something like vint4. Something short.<=
br>
<br>
</div>Current names:<br>
<br>
void16<br>
double2<br>
float4<br>
byte16<br>
ubyte16<br>
short8<br>
ushort8<br>
int4<br>
uint4<br>
long2<br>
<br>
Your suggestion:<br>
<br>
vvoid16<br>
vdouble2<br>
vfloat4<br>
vbyte16<br>
vubyte16<br>
vshort8<br>
vushort8<br>
vint4<br>
vuint4<br>
vlong2<br>
<br>
<br>
My suggestion:<br>
<br>
void16v<br>
double2v<br>
float4v<br>
byte16v<br>
ubyte16v<br>
short8v<br>
ushort8v<br>
int4v<br>
uint4v<br>
long2v<br>
<br>
Bye,<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">bearophile<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><div>I think I&#39;d vote for leaving =
it as it is, swayed by the fact that the more ambiguous types are super-rar=
ely used. float4/int4 has a nice familiarity with HLSL/Cg.</div>

--20cf3074b44002095a04b66f45b3--

Jan 13 2012

Manu <turkeyman gmail.com> writes:

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On 14 January 2012 00:31, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org
 wrote:


 On 1/13/12 2:41 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 1/13/2012 12:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:

 On 13/01/12 8:02 PM, Mehrdad wrote:

 Er... is there any reason why we're using such a cryptic PXOR value
 instead of operator overloading?


 I imagine Walter will add the operator overloads later.


 Right. simd() is just the bottom layer building block. It's a compiler
 intrinsic, and I don't want to make every overload a compiler intrinsic.


 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?



...I really don't think they will.
and most people would never dive this deep if the standard lib does its job
properly.

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 14 January 2012 00:31, Andrei Alexandrescu <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org">SeeWeb=
siteForEmail erdani.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">
<div class=3D"im">On 1/13/12 2:41 PM, Walter Bright wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 1/13/2012 12:27 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 13/01/12 8:02 PM, Mehrdad wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Er... is there any reason why we&#39;re using such a cryptic PXOR value<br>
instead of operator overloading?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I imagine Walter will add the operator overloads later.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Right. simd() is just the bottom layer building block. It&#39;s a compiler<=
br>
intrinsic, and I don&#39;t want to make every overload a compiler intrinsic=
.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?</blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>...I really don&#39;t think they will.</div><div>and most=
 people would never dive this deep if the standard lib does its job properl=
y.</div>
</div>

--002354470e0ce5920e04b6708393--

Jan 13 2012

Manu <turkeyman gmail.com> writes:

--20cf3005dee25eec9b04b670c182
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 14 January 2012 00:36, Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org
 wrote:


 On 1/13/12 3:08 PM, Manu wrote:

 On 13 January 2012 22:57, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com
 <mailto:bearophileHUGS lycos.**com <bearophileHUGS lycos.com>>> wrote:

    Walter:

     > What's our vector, Victor?
     > http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=fVq4_HhBK8Y<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y>

    Thank you Walter :-)


     > If int4 is out, I'd prefer something like vint4. Something short.

    Current names:

    void16
    double2
    float4
    byte16
    ubyte16
    short8
    ushort8
    int4
    uint4
    long2

    Your suggestion:

    vvoid16
    vdouble2
    vfloat4
    vbyte16
    vubyte16
    vshort8
    vushort8
    vint4
    vuint4
    vlong2


    My suggestion:

    void16v
    double2v
    float4v
    byte16v
    ubyte16v
    short8v
    ushort8v
    int4v
    uint4v
    long2v

    Bye,
    bearophile


 I think I'd vote for leaving it as it is, swayed by the fact that the
 more ambiguous types are super-rarely used. float4/int4 has a nice
 familiarity with HLSL/Cg.


 All names should have a __ prepended, and then the library defines names
 for them such as vec!(int, 4) that obey module lookup and all. Dumping a
 wheelbarrow of confusable new keywords doesn't sound right at all.



These ARE the library defined types we're talking about, defined in simd.d

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<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 14 January 2012 00:36, Andrei Alexandrescu <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org">SeeWeb=
siteForEmail erdani.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">
<div class=3D"im">On 1/13/12 3:08 PM, Manu wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im">
On 13 January 2012 22:57, bearophile &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bearophileHUGS l=
ycos.com" target=3D"_blank">bearophileHUGS lycos.com</a><br></div><div><div=
 class=3D"h5">
&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bearophileHUGS lycos.com" target=3D"_blank">be=
arophileHUGS lycos.<u></u>com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Walter:<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; What&#39;s our vector, Victor?<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; <a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DfVq4_HhBK8Y=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?<u></u>v=3DfVq4_HhBK8Y</a>=
<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thank you Walter :-)<br>
<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; If int4 is out, I&#39;d prefer something like vint4. So=
mething short.<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Current names:<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0void16<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0double2<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0float4<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0byte16<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ubyte16<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0short8<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ushort8<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0int4<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0uint4<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0long2<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Your suggestion:<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vvoid16<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vdouble2<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vfloat4<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vbyte16<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vubyte16<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vshort8<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vushort8<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vint4<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vuint4<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0vlong2<br>
<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0My suggestion:<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0void16v<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0double2v<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0float4v<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0byte16v<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ubyte16v<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0short8v<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ushort8v<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0int4v<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0uint4v<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0long2v<br>
<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bye,<br>
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bearophile<br>
<br>
<br></div></div><div class=3D"im">
I think I&#39;d vote for leaving it as it is, swayed by the fact that the<b=
r>
more ambiguous types are super-rarely used. float4/int4 has a nice<br>
familiarity with HLSL/Cg.<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
All names should have a __ prepended, and then the library defines names fo=
r them such as vec!(int, 4) that obey module lookup and all. Dumping a whee=
lbarrow of confusable new keywords doesn&#39;t sound right at all.</blockqu=
ote>
<div><br></div><div>These ARE the library defined types we&#39;re talking a=
bout, defined in simd.d</div></div>

--20cf3005dee25eec9b04b670c182--

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 11:06 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like int4 for
 vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit integer, or int8 to
 mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for vectors may be confusing.


Consider also that the int8 is an alias, not a keyword. This means that the 
compiler will inform you of any ambiguities, as well as allow:

    core.simd.int8

to disambiguate.

Jan 13 2012

Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:

On 13/01/12 10:55 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 11:06 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like
 int4 for
 vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit integer, or
 int8 to
 mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for vectors may be confusing.


 Consider also that the int8 is an alias, not a keyword. This means that
 the compiler will inform you of any ambiguities, as well as allow:

 core.simd.int8

 to disambiguate.


I realize that. It's just that I mentally associate the identifier int8 
with an 8-bit integer as it is something I regularly see in C++ code.

However, I'm willing to drop my position. After a quick Google, I 
discovered that it's not as common as I thought. I'm happy to keep 
float4 etc. since it is simple and is already used in a couple of shader 
languages.

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 3:15 PM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 I realize that. It's just that I mentally associate the identifier int8 with an
 8-bit integer as it is something I regularly see in C++ code.

 However, I'm willing to drop my position. After a quick Google, I discovered
 that it's not as common as I thought. I'm happy to keep float4 etc. since it is
 simple and is already used in a couple of shader languages.


I know you agree with me but I'm not done arguing :-)

Making an int8 type in D would be execrable style, as 'byte' is (unlike in C) 
*defined* to be an 8 bit signed integer.

Jan 13 2012

"F i L" <witte2008 gmail.com> writes:

Dope! Great starting place.

I think the syntax is great as-is. 'short' means a 16 bit integer 
type, so I don't see why short8 would conflict anywhere (in D). 
Plus, like Manu pointed out, float4/int4 is really what'll be 
most used and is identical to HLSL.

...to bad size_t wasn't intz like in Crack... ;-P

Jan 13 2012

"Robert Jacques" <sandford jhu.edu> writes:

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:06:28 -0600, Peter Alexander
<peter.alexander.au gmail.com> wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:39 AM, Walter Bright wrote:



 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like
 int4 for vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit
 integer, or int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for
 vectors may be confusing.

 As for what to change it to, I don't really care. int4v, vec_int4,
 int_vector4, anything. It doesn't matter.


Well, in my experience (graphics/GPU), float4 is the standard nomenclature.

Jan 13 2012

Manu <turkeyman gmail.com> writes:

--0016e6dedde649e19904b67327e9
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On 14 January 2012 03:42, Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 On 1/13/2012 3:51 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 1/13/12 4:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 1/13/2012 2:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?


 It'll currently fail miserably - it has to be a constant. Otherwise, we
 have runtime code generation. While not impossible, it is a large
 increase in scope.


 Then probably the operation should be simd!opcode(arguments). If a
 function is
 intrinsic it shouldn't have special syntactic rights.


 You're right, I'm just not too thrilled about generating hundreds of
 template instantiations.


Is that expensive somehow?
Surely they all just boil down to a call to the intrinsic anyway?

--0016e6dedde649e19904b67327e9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 14 January 2012 03:42, Walter Bright <span di=
r=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:newshound2 digitalmars.com">newshound2 digi=
talmars.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">On 1/13/2012 3:51 PM, Andrei Alexan=
drescu wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 1/13/12 4:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 1/13/2012 2:31 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
People will want to pass a variable for op. Would that work?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
It&#39;ll currently fail miserably - it has to be a constant. Otherwise, we=
<br>
have runtime code generation. While not impossible, it is a large<br>
increase in scope.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Then probably the operation should be simd!opcode(arguments). If a function=
 is<br>
intrinsic it shouldn&#39;t have special syntactic rights.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>
You&#39;re right, I&#39;m just not too thrilled about generating hundreds o=
f template instantiations.<br>
</blockquote></div><br><div>Is that expensive somehow?<br>Surely they all j=
ust boil down to a call to the intrinsic anyway?</div>

--0016e6dedde649e19904b67327e9--

Jan 13 2012

Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:

On 1/13/2012 11:06 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 *** Internal error: backend/cgcod.c 2048 ***

 Are all those instructions implemented? I seem to get the same for all
 instructions.


Things have gotten much better with the latest checkin.

Jan 14 2012

Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:

On 14/01/12 8:27 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 1/13/2012 11:06 AM, Peter Alexander wrote:
 *** Internal error: backend/cgcod.c 2048 ***

 Are all those instructions implemented? I seem to get the same for all
 instructions.


 Things have gotten much better with the latest checkin.


Ok, just got latest:

float4 a = void; // this works now
float4 b; // this doesn't (backend/cod2.c 2630)

a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a, a); // this doesn't (backend/cgcod.c 2048)
a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a, b); // this works
a = simd(XMM.PXOR, b, a); // this works
b = simd(XMM.PXOR, a, a); // this doesn't (backend/cgcod.c 2048)

Seems to not like it when the two args are the same.

This doesn't work either:

asm { movaps a, b; } // (bad type/size of operands 'movaps')

So, I can load all zeroes into a register using this:

float4 a = void, b = void;
b = a;
a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a, b);

But can't really do anything else.

Also, is there any way to extract the information from a vector type? 
Using a union, or taking address and casting to float* didn't work. 
Presumably it isn't writing back into memory appropriately (or has no 
memory associated).

Jan 14 2012

"Martin Nowak" <dawg dawgfoto.de> writes:

 void16v
 double2v
 float4v
 byte16v
 ubyte16v
 short8v
 ushort8v
 int4v
 uint4v
 long2v

Jan 14 2012

Shahid <govellius gmail.com> writes:

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:08:42 +0200, Manu wrote:

 I think I'd vote for leaving it as it is, swayed by the fact that the
 more ambiguous types are super-rarely used. float4/int4 has a nice
 familiarity with HLSL/Cg.


I like the current name scheme, and would like to keep them too.

Jan 14 2012

Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:

On 2012-01-13 20:06, Peter Alexander wrote:
 On 13/01/12 8:39 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/blob/master/simd.dd



 and core.simd:

 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/simd.d


 Nice!

 Although...

 import core.simd;
 void main()
 {
 float4 a = void; // float a; doesn't work either
 a = simd(XMM.PXOR, a);
 }

 *** Internal error: backend/cgcod.c 2048 ***

 Are all those instructions implemented? I seem to get the same for all
 instructions.

 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like
 int4 for vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit
 integer, or int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for
 vectors may be confusing.


Doesn't some C libraries use these names for fixed size types?

 As for what to change it to, I don't really care. int4v, vec_int4,
 int_vector4, anything. It doesn't matter.




-- 
/Jacob Carlborg

Jan 14 2012

"Martin Nowak" <dawg dawgfoto.de> writes:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 06:21:22 +0100, Walter Bright  
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 On 1/14/2012 9:15 PM, Sean Cavanaugh wrote:
 What about the 256 bit types that are already present in AVX  
 instruction set?


 Eventually, I'd like to do them, too.


https://github.com/dawgfoto/dmd/commits/AVXSupport

Jan 14 2012

"Martin Nowak" <dawg dawgfoto.de> writes:

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 07:07:03 +0100, Walter Bright  
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 On 1/14/2012 9:52 PM, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 06:21:22 +0100, Walter Bright  
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com>
 wrote:

 On 1/14/2012 9:15 PM, Sean Cavanaugh wrote:
 What about the 256 bit types that are already present in AVX  
 instruction set?


 Eventually, I'd like to do them, too.


 https://github.com/dawgfoto/dmd/commits/AVXSupport


 Nice, how about a pull request?


It's still some instructions to go.

Jan 14 2012

Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> writes:

On 13 January 2012 19:06, Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> wr=
ote:
 On 13/01/12 8:39 AM, Walter Bright wrote:
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/blo=




 and core.simd:


 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/=






 Nice!

 Although...

 import core.simd;
 void main()
 {
 =A0 =A0float4 a =3D void; // float a; doesn't work either
 =A0 =A0a =3D simd(XMM.PXOR, a);
 }

 *** Internal error: backend/cgcod.c 2048 ***

 Are all those instructions implemented? I seem to get the same for all
 instructions.

 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like int4
 for vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit integer, or
 int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for vectors may be
 confusing.

 As for what to change it to, I don't really care. int4v, vec_int4,
 int_vector4, anything. It doesn't matter.


This is probably intelligable, but makes sense to me.

Change   int4  ->  v4si

Vector names that reflect the MODE they represent, rather than the TYPE.


Regards
--=20
Iain Buclaw

*(p < e ? p++ : p) =3D (c & 0x0f) + '0';

Jan 13 2012

Manu <turkeyman gmail.com> writes:

--bcaec51b175fd8c85704b66e2978
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 13 January 2012 21:06, Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com>wrote:

 Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I'm not so sure on using names like int4
 for vectors. You see things like int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit integer, or
 int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Using this notation for vectors may be
 confusing.


I had the same feeling.
short8 really made me instanytly uncomfortable. I'm so used to seeing a
number on the end of a trivial type as being the width in bits. Even though
I knew exactly what I was looking at, I still unconsciously assumed this
was an 8bit type...

It makes perfect sense for float4, since it's completely absurd to imagine
a 4bit float, and it's also conventional from Cg and HLSL.
I wonder if there's a nice naming convention to mitigate this problem?
Perhaps vshort8? Or some other small prefix/suffix?

--bcaec51b175fd8c85704b66e2978
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 January 2012 21:06, Peter Alexander <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter.alexander.au gmail.com">peter.alexa=
nder.au gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">Also, slight bikeshedding issue: I&=
#39;m not so sure on using names like int4 for vectors. You see things like=
 int32 a lot to mean a 32-bit integer, or int8 to mean an 8-bit integer. Us=
ing this notation for vectors may be confusing.</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br><div>I had the same feeling.</div><div>short8 really=
 made me instanytly uncomfortable. I&#39;m so used to seeing a number on th=
e end of a trivial type as being the width in bits. Even though I knew exac=
tly what I was looking at, I still unconsciously assumed this was an 8bit t=
ype...</div>
<div><br></div><div>It makes perfect sense for float4, since it&#39;s compl=
etely absurd to imagine a 4bit float, and it&#39;s also conventional from C=
g and HLSL.</div><div>I wonder if there&#39;s a nice naming convention to m=
itigate this problem?</div>
<div>Perhaps vshort8? Or some other small prefix/suffix?</div>

--bcaec51b175fd8c85704b66e2978--

Jan 13 2012

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

Le 13/01/2012 09:39, Walter Bright a �crit :
 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/d-programming-language.org/blob/master/simd.dd


 and core.simd:

 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/druntime/blob/master/src/core/simd.d


Let me propose something that solve this problem and many other. I never 
had time to explain it properly, but this is definitively interesting 
for this conversation, so I'll give a quick draft.

The idea is to add a new ASM instruction to add an alias to a register 
choosen by the compiler and ensure it represent some existing variable. 
Thus, the compiler could ensure not to use a register already used and 
avoid stack manipulation when possible. This would also help ASM to get 
more readable.

As register are not equal one to another, we need to specify which type 
of register we want to use. For that, we just replace the � variable � 
part of the register name by N. For exemple XMMN is any SSE register. 
RNX represent a general purpose register on x86_64.

Now we define the false alias ASM instruction. Here is a (dumb) exemple :

long toto = 42;
long tata = 1337;

asm {
     alias toto RNX;
     alias tata RNX;
     add toto tata; // Now toto is 1379.
}

If tot and tata are already in some register, the compiler can simply 
map. If they are in memory, the the compiler must choose a register and 
mov the right data into it.

Jan 14 2012

D Programming

C/C++ Programming

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digitalmars.D - start on SIMD documentation