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digitalmars.D - phobos is failure

reply dolive <dolive89 sina.com> writes:
1, Little practical content
2, templat + range subversion use habit,  Lost the popularization base

sorry!
Oct 05 2010
next sibling parent reply "Yao G." <yao.gomez spam.gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 04:11:18 -0500, dolive <dolive89 sina.com> wrote:

 2, templat + range subversion use habit,  Lost the popularization base

 sorry!

I don't understand this last point. sorry! -- Yao G.
Oct 05 2010
next sibling parent dolive <dolive89 sina.com> writes:
Yao G. д:

 On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 04:11:18 -0500, dolive <dolive89 sina.com> wrote:
 
 2, templat + range subversion use habit,  Lost the popularization base

 sorry!

I don't understand this last point. sorry! -- Yao G.

Don't read understand for templat + range for most people (Including me), Lost the popular base .
Oct 05 2010
prev sibling parent dolive <dolive89 sina.com> writes:
Yao G. д:

 On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 04:11:18 -0500, dolive <dolive89 sina.com> wrote:
 
 2, templat + range subversion use habit,  Lost the popularization base

 sorry!

I don't understand this last point. sorry! -- Yao G.

Don't read understand for templat + range for most people (Including me), Lost the popular base .
Oct 05 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Darth Tango <darth death-to-phobos.org> writes:
On 5/10/2010 8:11 PM, dolive wrote:
 1, Little practical content
 2, templat + range subversion use habit,  Lost the popularization base

 sorry!

Exackaly. Tango rulez. May the meta-force be beside you. :-) Darth
Oct 05 2010
next sibling parent reply Juanjo Alvarez <fake fakeemail.com> writes:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:59:20 +1100, Darth Tango 
<darth death-to-phobos.org> wrote:
 Exackaly.  Tango rulez.

 May the meta-force be beside you.

 :-) Darth

My Lord, how is the migration of Tango to D2 going? The last commit I saw on the experimental branch was pretty old.
Oct 05 2010
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2010-10-05 21:41, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
 On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:10:33 -0400, Juanjo Alvarez <fake fakeemail.com>
 wrote:

 On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:59:20 +1100, Darth Tango
 <darth death-to-phobos.org> wrote:
 Exackaly. Tango rulez.

 May the meta-force be beside you.

 :-) Darth

My Lord, how is the migration of Tango to D2 going? The last commit I saw on the experimental branch was pretty old.

Look at who did it :) I think it's safe to say D2 for tango isn't going to happen any time soon, if at all. -Steve

I think someone else has started to work on this in a different repository, I don't recall who it was though. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Oct 06 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:op.vj5htul8eav7ka localhost.localdomain...
 On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 03:31:19 -0400, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> wrote:

 On 2010-10-05 21:41, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
 On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:10:33 -0400, Juanjo Alvarez <fake fakeemail.com>
 wrote:
 My Lord, how is the migration of Tango to D2 going? The last commit I
 saw on the experimental branch was pretty old.

Look at who did it :) I think it's safe to say D2 for tango isn't going to happen any time soon, if at all. -Steve

I think someone else has started to work on this in a different repository, I don't recall who it was though.

Hm... there's nothing newer than a year in the branch directory of Tango, and googling for D2 and Tango just comes up with newsgroup posts. I have reason to believe anyways that despite any effort, Tango won't ever be D2 compatible. This comes from experience of trying to port it.

IMHO, the primary reason for Tango has been eroding (at least for D2). As I always saw it, the whole point of Tango was that Phobos was basically early-alpha-level with practically no features, and no one actively working on it (just a little bit of occasional attention from Walter). In those days, Tango mage *perfect* sense. But Phobos2 has come such a long way, and has the added bonus of not leaving you lost in epic package/class hierarchies. I don't mean to bash Tango, I used it and loved it for a long time. I'm just not sure it's really needed on D2. What I *do* think could be useful is a "Phobango" of sorts to help in porting D1/Tango to D2/Phobos. Thinks like mapping locate/locatePrior's interface to Phobos2, or Stdout.formatln("{}") to writefln("%s"), etc.
Oct 06 2010
parent reply crap <tastic yesit.is> writes:
Steven Schveighoffer Wrote:

 On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 17:51:33 -0400, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:
 IMHO, the primary reason for Tango has been eroding (at least for D2).  
 As I
 always saw it, the whole point of Tango was that Phobos was basically
 early-alpha-level with practically no features, and no one actively  
 working
 on it (just a little bit of occasional attention from Walter). In those
 days, Tango mage *perfect* sense. But Phobos2 has come such a long way,  
 and
 has the added bonus of not leaving you lost in epic package/class
 hierarchies. I don't mean to bash Tango, I used it and loved it for a  
 long
 time. I'm just not sure it's really needed on D2.

As a library, I loved and used Tango for quite a while. It's still a very good library. I don't think the reasons it won't be ported are technical.

Some traitors left the development team. 50% bullshit FUD claims about the attribution clause and other shit talk wrt the complexity of package hierarchies were necessary to Boost (pun intended) the adoption of the horrible template abusing bloat library (see the big executable OMG! threads). A Phobos oriented book (again with no attribution to Tango development in D's history) was written to bash Tango. Now we are wondering how this all happened. Exciting times!
Oct 07 2010
next sibling parent reply dsimcha <dsimcha yahoo.com> writes:
== Quote from crap (tastic yesit.is)'s article
 the horrible template abusing bloat library

I'm sorry, but this is what I **like** about Phobos. I really hate nominative typing and traditional Java/C++-style OO for most things. It's verbose, requires too much design to be set in stone upfront, and is not all that flexible. In my own programs I tend to only use it when I really need flexibility at runtime, not just at design/development or compile time, which is a minority of cases. Furthermore, for most things a few megabytes of executable size bloat is **not a practical issue**. For the types of programs I tend to write at least, the disk and memory space the code takes up (100s of KB to a few MB) is negligible compared to the size of the data the at the code operates on (100s of MB).
Oct 07 2010
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 10/7/10 9:37 CDT, dsimcha wrote:
 == Quote from crap (tastic yesit.is)'s article
 the horrible template abusing bloat library

I'm sorry, but this is what I **like** about Phobos. I really hate nominative typing and traditional Java/C++-style OO for most things. It's verbose, requires too much design to be set in stone upfront, and is not all that flexible. In my own programs I tend to only use it when I really need flexibility at runtime, not just at design/development or compile time, which is a minority of cases. Furthermore, for most things a few megabytes of executable size bloat is **not a practical issue**. For the types of programs I tend to write at least, the disk and memory space the code takes up (100s of KB to a few MB) is negligible compared to the size of the data the at the code operates on (100s of MB).

One other thing is that it's very easy to build traditional designs on top of highly configurable ones (like Phobos tries to offer), whereas the reverse is not possible (or at least not efficiently). I noticed that some tend to think that if they see Phobos going the extra length to define a really general, flexible, and adaptive algorithm or structure, they're forced to write application code all the same. If we align our ducks right, Phobos should be a compelling offering to a large range of designs. Andrei
Oct 07 2010
prev sibling parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
crap schrieb:
 
 A Phobos oriented book (...) was written to bash Tango. 

?
Oct 07 2010
parent dolive <dolive89 sina.com> writes:
Daniel Gibson д:

 crap schrieb:
 
 A Phobos oriented book (...) was written to bash Tango. 

?

Oct 07 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:10:33 -0400, Juanjo Alvarez <fake fakeemail.com>  
wrote:

 On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:59:20 +1100, Darth Tango  
 <darth death-to-phobos.org> wrote:
 Exackaly.  Tango rulez.

 May the meta-force be beside you.

 :-) Darth

My Lord, how is the migration of Tango to D2 going? The last commit I saw on the experimental branch was pretty old.

Look at who did it :) I think it's safe to say D2 for tango isn't going to happen any time soon, if at all. -Steve
Oct 05 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 03:31:19 -0400, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> wrote:

 On 2010-10-05 21:41, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
 On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:10:33 -0400, Juanjo Alvarez <fake fakeemail.com>
 wrote:

 On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 23:59:20 +1100, Darth Tango
 <darth death-to-phobos.org> wrote:
 Exackaly. Tango rulez.

 May the meta-force be beside you.

 :-) Darth

My Lord, how is the migration of Tango to D2 going? The last commit I saw on the experimental branch was pretty old.

Look at who did it :) I think it's safe to say D2 for tango isn't going to happen any time soon, if at all. -Steve

I think someone else has started to work on this in a different repository, I don't recall who it was though.

Hm... there's nothing newer than a year in the branch directory of Tango, and googling for D2 and Tango just comes up with newsgroup posts. I have reason to believe anyways that despite any effort, Tango won't ever be D2 compatible. This comes from experience of trying to port it. -Steve
Oct 06 2010
prev sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Wed, 06 Oct 2010 17:51:33 -0400, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:
 IMHO, the primary reason for Tango has been eroding (at least for D2).  
 As I
 always saw it, the whole point of Tango was that Phobos was basically
 early-alpha-level with practically no features, and no one actively  
 working
 on it (just a little bit of occasional attention from Walter). In those
 days, Tango mage *perfect* sense. But Phobos2 has come such a long way,  
 and
 has the added bonus of not leaving you lost in epic package/class
 hierarchies. I don't mean to bash Tango, I used it and loved it for a  
 long
 time. I'm just not sure it's really needed on D2.

As a library, I loved and used Tango for quite a while. It's still a very good library. I don't think the reasons it won't be ported are technical. -Steve
Oct 07 2010
prev sibling parent Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> writes:
--000e0cd1fb9ef7cbee0491e74501
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Are you using a translator to translate from Chinese to English?
"Read-understand=E2=80=9C doesn't mean "understand" in English, only in Chi=
nese :).

Phobos2 is being worked on right now.  I think it's getting better.


On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 5:11 AM, dolive <dolive89 sina.com> wrote:

 Yao G. =E5=86=99=E5=88=B0:

 On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 04:11:18 -0500, dolive <dolive89 sina.com> wrote:

 2, templat + range subversion use habit,  Lost the popularization bas=



 sorry!

I don't understand this last point. sorry! -- Yao G.

Don't read understand for templat + range for most people (Including me)=

 Lost the popular base .

--000e0cd1fb9ef7cbee0491e74501 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are you using a translator to translate from Chinese to English?<div>&quot;= Read-understand=E2=80=9C=C2=A0doesn&#39;t mean &quot;understand&quot; in En= glish, only in Chinese :).</div><div><br></div><div>Phobos2 is being worked= on right now. =C2=A0I think it&#39;s getting better.</div> <div><br></div><div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 5, 2010= at 5:11 AM, dolive <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dolive89 sina.c= om">dolive89 sina.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e= x;"> Yao G. =E5=86=99=E5=88=B0:<br> <div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br> &gt; On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 04:11:18 -0500, dolive &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:doliv= e89 sina.com">dolive89 sina.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br> &gt;<br> &gt; &gt; 2, templat + range subversion use habit, =C2=A0Lost the populariz= ation base<br> &gt; &gt;<br> &gt; &gt; sorry!<br> &gt;<br> &gt; I don&#39;t understand this last point.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; sorry!<br> &gt;<br> &gt; --<br> &gt; Yao G.<br> <br> </div></div>Don&#39;t read understand for templat + range =C2=A0for most pe= ople (Including me), Lost the popular base .<br> <br> </blockquote></div><br></div></div> --000e0cd1fb9ef7cbee0491e74501--
Oct 05 2010