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digitalmars.D.learn - Why D isn't the next "big thing" already

reply llaine <darksioul6 gmail.com> writes:
Hi guys,

I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why people 
don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big thing" 
already.

Everybody is into javascript nowadays, but IMO even for doing web 
I found Vibe.d more interesting and efficient than node.js for 
example.

I agree that you have to be pragmatic and choose the right tools 
for the right jobs but I would be interested to have other 
opinion on thoses questions.
Jul 26 2016
next sibling parent phant0m <asoeifjasoi sioudfhjsiuodhf.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.

 Everybody is into javascript nowadays, but IMO even for doing 
 web I found Vibe.d more interesting and efficient than node.js 
 for example.

 I agree that you have to be pragmatic and choose the right 
 tools for the right jobs but I would be interested to have 
 other opinion on thoses questions.
As far as I know, most of the people wait when D will be used by big companies for big projects. It's the chicken-egg problem. Personally, I found that D improves my productivity a lot (comparing to C++). I gave up on opinions of other people and use what is convenient for me in my own projects. But not everybody such "brave".
Jul 26 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent tsbockman <thomas.bockman gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.
D2 is under active development. Bugs get fixed, bottlenecks get optimized, and features get added or improved constantly. These changes don't usually seem like a big deal from one release to the next, but they add up quickly. Compared to what we have now, D2 was (in my opinion) unfinished junk a few years ago. The quality has improved a lot since then, but it will take time for the bad taste left in many people's mouthes by the unstable, incomplete early builds to be forgotten. This is a common problem for open source projects: the dev team is naturally more enthusiastic about the project than others, and also feels pressure to market it in order to attract testers, contributors, and donors. The result is that the product is declared "ready" before it really is by the standards of outsiders. People get fooled by the hype, try a half-baked build, and sour on the project. As long as the dev team continues to solve D2's problems faster than they're adding new ones, I expect that adoption will continue to increase.
Jul 26 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Gorge Jingale <Frifj mail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.

 Everybody is into javascript nowadays, but IMO even for doing 
 web I found Vibe.d more interesting and efficient than node.js 
 for example.

 I agree that you have to be pragmatic and choose the right 
 tools for the right jobs but I would be interested to have 
 other opinion on thoses questions.
I think it is because D has some fundamental problems. It is a risk to use software that is not proven to be safe, effective, and easy to use. The fact there are so many bugs(and many are big blockes) in D says something about D, it matters not how fast they are fixed. It forces you in to a certain mold. All that power it has is attractive, but much of it is hot air if you can't get it off the ground in any serious professional way. The larger the project one works on the more likely one will run in to bugs, the more complex the language is the slower it understand the problems, and the more limited tools one has, the slower it is. So, D has many things going against it compared with well establish languages. Because businesses care about the $$$, it matters what they use. D covers a lot more ground than almost any other compiler out their but it doesn't cover any of it will except in a few cases(the things that make it attractive). So, you can see D as a sort of dried up waste land desert with a few nice palm trees growing here and there and a few scorpions. C++, say, is a very lush forest with many tree dwelling monkeys. Which environment would you rather use? Sure, there is potential in the desert, it has nice hot sand, so if you like that, you'll be in paradise... also if you like palm trees(and most people in the D forum like palm trees... or scorpions, they can be a tasty treat every now and then). Ok, maybe a bit exaggerated, but point is most people don't like the desert and D is like a desert, but not as extreme. To actually prove why would require about 158 MIT students, a 10M$ grant, and a time machine. Do you have any of that?
Jul 26 2016
next sibling parent llaine <darksioul6 gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 00:52:30 UTC, Gorge Jingale wrote:
 I think it is because D has some fundamental problems. It is a 
 risk to use software that is not proven to be safe, effective, 
 and easy to use. The fact there are so many bugs(and many are 
 big blockes) in D says something about D, it matters not how 
 fast they are fixed.
Which fundamental problems you refer to? I'm curious about thoses, I feel I just scratch the tip of the language so far.
Jul 27 2016
prev sibling parent ixid <adamsibson hotmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 00:52:30 UTC, Gorge Jingale wrote:
 So, you can see D as a sort of dried up waste land desert with 
 a few nice palm trees growing here and there and a few 
 scorpions. C++, say, is a very lush forest with many tree 
 dwelling monkeys. Which environment would you rather use?
You're forgetting the spiked stick pits that the lush forest is full of, and also the monkeys are rabid. =)
Jul 27 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent reply chmike <christophe meessen.net> writes:
On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.

 Everybody is into javascript nowadays, but IMO even for doing 
 web I found Vibe.d more interesting and efficient than node.js 
 for example.

 I agree that you have to be pragmatic and choose the right 
 tools for the right jobs but I would be interested to have 
 other opinion on those questions.
I've been testing D and love many features of the language. But I'm now to switching to Go for my alimentary project. But I prefer D's syntax, ranges and the easiness of generic coding. The reason I'm switching to Go is because 1. there is a much larger community and code base (it's easier to find code snippet, help or programmers) 2. go routines (fibers integrated into the language, plug & play) 3. GC performance (no stop the world hiccups) 4. Web server && IO performance (see: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks or https://github.com/nanoant/WebFrameworkBenchmark). As a computer scientist I prefer D to Go and see a lot of potential in it. But as a software developer I feel that D still needs maturation to be competitive in a production environment. I guess this is the reason why D doesn't get much traction yet.
Jul 27 2016
next sibling parent reply NX <nightmarex1337 hotmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 09:28:49 UTC, chmike wrote:
 The reason I'm switching to Go is because
 3. GC performance (no stop the world hiccups)
IIRC, there is a concurrent GC implementation used by sociomantic but it's linux only. (It uses fork() sys call)
 4. Web server && IO performance (see: 
 https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks or 
 https://github.com/nanoant/WebFrameworkBenchmark).
Please, these are terribly outdated benchmarks. There was a recent bug causing Vibe.D to not scale to multiple cores at all which has been fixed.
Jul 27 2016
parent chmike <christophe meessen.net> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:17:57 UTC, NX wrote:
 On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 09:28:49 UTC, chmike wrote:
 4. Web server && IO performance (see: 
 https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks or 
 https://github.com/nanoant/WebFrameworkBenchmark).
Please, these are terribly outdated benchmarks. There was a recent bug causing Vibe.D to not scale to multiple cores at all which has been fixed.
Yes, you are right. It's not easy to determine the version of vibe.d used for techempower. From this link it seam that version 0.7.19 of vibe.d was used Oo unless the Readme is simply outdated.   https://github.com/TechEmpower/FrameworkBenchmarks/tree/master/frameworks/D/vibed For the other one it's vibe v0.7.26 which is more recent. The performance is still low.
Jul 27 2016
prev sibling parent llaine <darksioul6 gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 09:28:49 UTC, chmike wrote:

 The reason I'm switching to Go is because
 1. there is a much larger community and code base (it's easier 
 to find code snippet, help or programmers)
I agree with you, but when I'm having trouble I always go to IRC and the guys there are always nice and help me a lot. (Don't know the GO community for that).
 2. go routines (fibers integrated into the language, plug & 
 play)
 3. GC performance (no stop the world hiccups)
 4. Web server && IO performance (see: 
 https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks or 
 https://github.com/nanoant/WebFrameworkBenchmark).
On this point I strongly disagree with you. In my company I've deployed a D app using Vibe.d for internal purposes. The app is around 4000 loc, used in average by 30 people simultanously and is deployed on heroku free (512 MB RAM │ 1 web/1 worker) and the maximum response time is around 300ms. Is way beyond every other app that we could have. Look at this benchmark it's more up to date : https://github.com/llaine/benchmarks
 As a computer scientist I prefer D to Go and see a lot of 
 potential in it. But as a software developer I feel that D 
 still needs maturation to be competitive in a production 
 environment. I guess this is the reason why D doesn't get much 
 traction yet.
Jul 27 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent reply NX <nightmarex1337 hotmail.com> writes:
Lack of production quality tools
Lack of good marketing
Lack of man power & corporate support
Lack of idiomatic D libraries

These are pretty much the core of all other negative 
consequences. Ex: GDC is few versions behind DMD because lack of 
man power.

If only we could break the vicious circle...
Jul 27 2016
parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:39:52 UTC, NX wrote:
 Lack of production quality tools
like? no, "refactoring" and other crap is not "production quality tools", they are only useful to pretend that you are doing something useful, so you will look busy for your boss.
Jul 27 2016
next sibling parent reply burjui <bytefu gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:41:54 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:39:52 UTC, NX wrote:
 Lack of production quality tools
like? no, "refactoring" and other crap is not "production quality tools", they are only useful to pretend that you are doing something useful, so you will look busy for your boss.
Why do you use D then? C++ already exists and you can do anything in it. Oh, D is more convenient and robust? Well, "Refactoring" is more convenient and robust than sed -i 's/.../.../g'.
Jul 28 2016
parent ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org> writes:
On Thursday, 28 July 2016 at 11:41:49 UTC, burjui wrote:
 Why do you use D then?
it is fun.
 Oh, D is more convenient and robust?
no, it is more fun.
 "Refactoring" is more convenient and robust than sed -i 
 's/.../.../g'.
ues, using specialised tools to do useless work can be counted as "better thing".
Jul 28 2016
prev sibling parent reply Gorge Jingale <Frifj mail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:41:54 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:39:52 UTC, NX wrote:
 Lack of production quality tools
like? no, "refactoring" and other crap is not "production quality tools", they are only useful to pretend that you are doing something useful, so you will look busy for your boss.
Do you ever get tired of your ego? You know, evolution supports that people like you are a dying breed. How does that feel? I bet it makes you feel good? I bet you live an awesome life, I don't know where you find time to stroke your ego so much though? Why don't you go live in a cave? That way you don't use any tools like a computer, or a car, or electricity... cause those all just get in the way of what's really important. Eagerly awaiting your response. P.S., I have a prediction, that you won't response intelligently.
Jul 28 2016
parent llaine <darksioul6 gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 28 July 2016 at 15:16:20 UTC, Gorge Jingale wrote:
 On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:41:54 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:39:52 UTC, NX wrote:
 Lack of production quality tools
like? no, "refactoring" and other crap is not "production quality tools", they are only useful to pretend that you are doing something useful, so you will look busy for your boss.
Guys please, I'm just trying to do something constructive here.
Jul 29 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent reply lkfsdg <lkfsdg sdfeazq.od> writes:
On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.

 Everybody is into javascript nowadays, but IMO even for doing 
 web I found Vibe.d more interesting and efficient than node.js 
 for example.

 I agree that you have to be pragmatic and choose the right 
 tools for the right jobs but I would be interested to have 
 other opinion on thoses questions.
Seriously, it could take years before D gets really popular and that's normal. Web languages have raised quickly because they were new, they weren't fighting against anything. D has C, Java and C++ plus the other "new" languages Go, Rust. Also I predict that the more it'll get popular the less it will attract hobbyist. I did't realized at the beginning (I've discovered D in 2012 then started to learn more seriously in 2014) but Alexandrescu clairly aims at a professional usage so it'll become less and less fun.
Jul 27 2016
parent reply llaine <darksioul6 gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:42:50 UTC, lkfsdg wrote:

 Also I predict that the more it'll get popular the less it will 
 attract hobbyist. I did't realized at the beginning (I've 
 discovered D in 2012 then started to learn more seriously in 
 2014) but Alexandrescu clairly aims at a professional usage so 
 it'll become less and less fun.
What do you mean by that ?
Jul 27 2016
parent lkfsdg <lkfsdg sdfeazq.od> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 11:11:56 UTC, llaine wrote:
 On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 10:42:50 UTC, lkfsdg wrote:

 Also I predict that the more it'll get popular the less it 
 will attract hobbyist. I did't realized at the beginning (I've 
 discovered D in 2012 then started to learn more seriously in 
 2014) but Alexandrescu clairly aims at a professional usage so 
 it'll become less and less fun.
What do you mean by that ?
It should be clear so let's rephrase: I think that hobbyists will be less and less attracted by D because its professionalization. But you shouldn't attach any importance to this idea. I might be wrong, it's just that if, let's say, in five years I observe that this is true, I will be able to say "I knew it" without being biased (retrospective bias) because the idea is clearly stated. ;)
Jul 27 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.
Because languages don't become big things. Good solutions to particular problems become big things, but D is a very good language and nothing more. So if that is your criteria for choosing a language, you might want to use something else. D will go the route of continual improvement and increased adoption. As more and more people use it for small projects, the ecosystem will improve, and it will begin to be adopted for bigger projects.
Jul 27 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Seb <seb wilzba.ch> writes:
On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.

 Everybody is into javascript nowadays, but IMO even for doing 
 web I found Vibe.d more interesting and efficient than node.js 
 for example.

 I agree that you have to be pragmatic and choose the right 
 tools for the right jobs but I would be interested to have 
 other opinion on thoses questions.
My personal opinion is that the two biggest problems are 1) it has no unique selling point (USP): Rust - memory-safety, Go/NodeJS - web app, Python/Julia - scientific computing, R - statistics, Matlab/Mathematica/Octave - numerical programming, Haskell - pure functional, C - kernels, controllers, embedded While the Areas of D Usage (https://dlang.org/areas-of-d-usage.html) is just a brief overview, D can compete with all of these areas. 2) It has no big player with money behind it. Rust (Mozilla), Go (Google), NodeJs (Joyent), ... - having dedicated resources helps a lot to let a project takeoff. That being said it's an awesome language that can rule them all, adoption is rising slowly, but steadily & hopefully with the D Foundation being a non-profit organization real money (http://forum.dlang.org/post/qaskprdxmshpabarahbf forum.dlang.org) flows in.
Jul 27 2016
next sibling parent dewitt <dkdewitt gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 16:26:47 UTC, Seb wrote:
 On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.

 Everybody is into javascript nowadays, but IMO even for doing 
 web I found Vibe.d more interesting and efficient than node.js 
 for example.

 I agree that you have to be pragmatic and choose the right 
 tools for the right jobs but I would be interested to have 
 other opinion on thoses questions.
My personal opinion is that the two biggest problems are 1) it has no unique selling point (USP): Rust - memory-safety, Go/NodeJS - web app, Python/Julia - scientific computing, R - statistics, Matlab/Mathematica/Octave - numerical programming, Haskell - pure functional, C - kernels, controllers, embedded While the Areas of D Usage (https://dlang.org/areas-of-d-usage.html) is just a brief overview, D can compete with all of these areas. 2) It has no big player with money behind it. Rust (Mozilla), Go (Google), NodeJs (Joyent), ... - having dedicated resources helps a lot to let a project takeoff. That being said it's an awesome language that can rule them all, adoption is rising slowly, but steadily & hopefully with the D Foundation being a non-profit organization real money (http://forum.dlang.org/post/qaskprdxmshpabarahbf forum.dlang.org) flows in.
I personally don't think having Corp sponsorship will all of sudden bring more ppl in. I think it would be good to work on getting libraries to work with vibe might be a good way to bring interest/development. I know vibe still needs work but the overall system isn't bad but its still a hassle to use w/ a DB in some instances. I also don't believe in the "next big thing" it's hard to compete w/ something like JS and node picked up mainly because its javascript. If u want D to pick up in the web arena just start some projects and post about them... Make youtube videos or whatever. ppl aren't gonna pick it up if all they do is come to the D forums and see a ton of flame fests. Need more positive examples of the language... IDK if Rust is necessarily blowing up in usage I know Go has alot of steam but I would say that Docker may be the cause more than just saying its Google. Also what about things like Hadoop or Kafka. If D had things like this it would also pick up more traction. There is a strong community and it tends to spend too much time on the forums complaining about A or B vs. doing things to improve exposure. Maybe more organization for community projects would be good. I'd say one thing that could be improved is organization within the community. Im not talking about D leadership but just community. I've seen a couple jobs around trying to use Elixir w/ Elm on the front end. There are ppl out there willing to try new things...
Jul 27 2016
prev sibling parent Meta <jared771 gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 27 July 2016 at 16:26:47 UTC, Seb wrote:
 My personal opinion is that the two biggest problems are

 1) it has no unique selling point (USP):
I don't necessarily agree. I think that D's USPs as seen externally are simplified and powerful metaprogramming abilities, and being a better or "cleaned-up" C++. Internally we all know that D has many USPs.
Jul 27 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent Guillaume Piolat <first.last gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 why it isn't the "big thing" already.
1. Less easy to explain A big selling point is that D is good in all directions, and stupidly easy to apply in many situations. That is a lot harder to explain that a simple value proposal like "let's pretend we solved multithreading!" or "let's pretend we solved bugs!". Competitors concentrate their communications on one or two problems to be solved. D is more of an enabler thing, so many people who eg. don't know what meta-programming allows don't miss it in day-to-day operations. 2. Social Proof I would wager that in large part the D community is vaccinated against taking decisions by social proof alone. But we need ever more stories like "that rich/trendy company is making loads of money with D".
Jul 27 2016
prev sibling parent reply Karabuta <karabutaworld gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.

 Everybody is into javascript nowadays, but IMO even for doing 
 web I found Vibe.d more interesting and efficient than node.js 
 for example.

 I agree that you have to be pragmatic and choose the right 
 tools for the right jobs but I would be interested to have 
 other opinion on thoses questions.
I think we need more frameworks like vibe.d to build things with them. Currently there is not much so only a class of programmers will find the language useful. Another thing is that the language is not marketed well enough. Someone need to handle marketing of the language, like real marketing. Most people are still unaware of D.
Jul 29 2016
parent reply LaTeigne <LaTeigne blabla.fr> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 01:32:50 UTC, Karabuta wrote:
 On Tuesday, 26 July 2016 at 15:11:00 UTC, llaine wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I'm using D since a few month now and I was wondering why 
 people don't jump onto it that much and why it isn't the "big 
 thing" already.

 Everybody is into javascript nowadays, but IMO even for doing 
 web I found Vibe.d more interesting and efficient than node.js 
 for example.

 I agree that you have to be pragmatic and choose the right 
 tools for the right jobs but I would be interested to have 
 other opinion on thoses questions.
I think we need more frameworks like vibe.d to build things with them. Currently there is not much so only a class of programmers will find the language useful. Another thing is that the language is not marketed well enough. Someone need to handle marketing of the language, like real marketing. Most people are still unaware of D.
The best marketing possible is pre-marketing in universities. For example in the 2000's Delphi was incredibly popular in Russia because the holder at this time (so Borland unless it was already Code Gear) sold literally **hundreds** of licenses to the russian education department. This is how it became so popular in Eastern Europe, despite of not being free. The day D will be used to teach student programmation it could get popular. Unfortunately since the students that form the main frame of workers have short formation (typically 2 years) they are taught what's really used in the industry so Java, C++ + web languages, so that they're ready to program the same shit during 10 years, until they leave and reconvert.
Jul 30 2016
parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 11:31:26 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 For example in the 2000's Delphi was incredibly popular in 
 Russia because the holder at this time (so Borland unless it 
 was already Code Gear) sold literally **hundreds** of licenses 
 to the russian education department.
actually, no. nobody ever bothers to buy licenses at all. delphi was popular due to teachers mostly know nothing except pascal, so using turbo pascal, then borland pascal, then delphi was the logical choice. believe me, it had nothing to do with licensing, you hardly ever find legal, non-pirated delphi version there.
Jul 30 2016
parent reply LaTeigne <LaTeigne blabla.fr> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 11:46:11 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 11:31:26 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 For example in the 2000's Delphi was incredibly popular in 
 Russia because the holder at this time (so Borland unless it 
 was already Code Gear) sold literally **hundreds** of licenses 
 to the russian education department.
actually, no. nobody ever bothers to buy licenses at all. delphi was popular due to teachers mostly know nothing except pascal, so using turbo pascal, then borland pascal, then delphi
Your stupid. This is a well known fact. https://www.quora.com/I-have-been-told-that-Russians-are-the-best-in-computer-programming-Why-is-that-Which-programming-language-do-they-use-Do-they-use-the-same-languages-that-we-use-or-do-they-use-something-totally-different/answer/Dmitry-Popov-6 http://delphihaters0.blogspot.com/2011/02/delphi-in-russia.html PPL using pirated copies is another story. I speak well about what was setup in the universities themselves, you know... in the computer rooms.
 was the logical choice. believe me, it had nothing to do with 
 licensing, you hardly ever find legal, non-pirated delphi 
 version there.
You remind me that an idiot has open-sourced the keygen on GitHub. Don't know if it's still there. By the way aren't you czech Ketmar ?
Jul 30 2016
parent reply ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

it you think that you know the things better than somebody who 
actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep thinking 
that. also, don't forget to teach physics to physicians, medicine 
to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure that you will have a great 
success as a stupidiest comic they ever seen in their life.

also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
Jul 30 2016
next sibling parent reply LaTeigne <LaTeigne blabla.fr> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody who 
 actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep thinking 
 that. also, don't forget to teach physics to physicians, 
 medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure that you will 
 have a great success as a stupidiest comic they ever seen in 
 their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
Fucking schyzo ;) Have you took your little pills today ?
Jul 30 2016
parent reply bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:30:55 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody who 
 actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep thinking 
 that. also, don't forget to teach physics to physicians, 
 medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure that you will 
 have a great success as a stupidiest comic they ever seen in 
 their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
Fucking schyzo ;) Have you took your little pills today ?
Well this is beautiful marketing for the language. At some point, the leadership will need to put away ideology and get realistic about what belongs on this site.
Jul 30 2016
next sibling parent reply LaTeigne <LaTeigne blabla.fr> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 22:52:23 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:30:55 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody 
 who actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep 
 thinking that. also, don't forget to teach physics to 
 physicians, medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure 
 that you will have a great success as a stupidiest comic they 
 ever seen in their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
Fucking schyzo ;) Have you took your little pills today ?
Well this is beautiful marketing for the language. At some point, the leadership will need to put away ideology and get realistic about what belongs on this site.
This has nothing to do with the language, this is a simple personnal attack. You should get that, as much as any reader that discovers D would do.
Jul 30 2016
parent reply bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 22:58:31 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 22:52:23 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:30:55 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody 
 who actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep 
 thinking that. also, don't forget to teach physics to 
 physicians, medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure 
 that you will have a great success as a stupidiest comic 
 they ever seen in their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
Fucking schyzo ;) Have you took your little pills today ?
Well this is beautiful marketing for the language. At some point, the leadership will need to put away ideology and get realistic about what belongs on this site.
This has nothing to do with the language, this is a simple personnal attack. You should get that, as much as any reader that discovers D would do.
I wasn't directing my comment at you specifically. I was talking about the direction the thread took, something I've seen with increasing frequency. It does not make a good impression, and because this is the primary place for new users to ask questions and for Google links, it is costly.
Jul 30 2016
parent ketmar <ketmar ketmar.no-ip.org> writes:
On Sunday, 31 July 2016 at 04:32:10 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
 I wasn't directing my comment at you specifically. I was 
 talking about the direction the thread took,
what do you prefer: to have a completely false information, or corrected information for the price of one or two troll-like posts? i prefer second, 'cause information must not only be free, but it must be correct too. ;-) as for the attacks and trolling itself... healthy community can go thru that without any "forum police" involved (like in this case). and actually having such things and community reaction to 'em is not such a bad thing. i believe that it is quite the contrary: it paints the community as a nice open place, not some walled garden with machine gun guards patroling the area and shooting anything resembling real-world things. ;-)
Jul 30 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Seb <seb wilzba.ch> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 22:52:23 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:30:55 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody 
 who actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep 
 thinking that. also, don't forget to teach physics to 
 physicians, medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure 
 that you will have a great success as a stupidiest comic they 
 ever seen in their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
Fucking schyzo ;) Have you took your little pills today ?
Well this is beautiful marketing for the language. At some point, the leadership will need to put away ideology and get realistic about what belongs on this site.
I would love to see the forum evolve into something similar to reddit, where everyone can judge the value of a comment/thread and off-topic threads (or threads with low-values) get down-voted very quickly. It might also help to avoid such 50 pages threads (like auto-decoding) as the most-important thread stays on top and newcomers to the discussion don't have to read everything to get the gist.
Jul 30 2016
next sibling parent reply LaTeigne <LaTeigne blabla.fr> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 23:11:23 UTC, Seb wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 22:52:23 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:30:55 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody 
 who actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep 
 thinking that. also, don't forget to teach physics to 
 physicians, medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure 
 that you will have a great success as a stupidiest comic 
 they ever seen in their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
Fucking schyzo ;) Have you took your little pills today ?
Well this is beautiful marketing for the language. At some point, the leadership will need to put away ideology and get realistic about what belongs on this site.
I would love to see the forum evolve into something similar to reddit, where everyone can judge the value of a comment/thread and off-topic threads (or threads with low-values) get down-voted very quickly. It might also help to avoid such 50 pages threads (like auto-decoding) as the most-important thread stays on top and newcomers to the discussion don't have to read everything to get the gist.
Preliminary documentation work: https://medium.com/hacking-and-gonzo/how-reddit-ranking-algorithms-work-ef111e33d0d9#.vawc5kat8 And you wan submit the result on Pantallex DFeeds. The widget on the homepage must use something similar (except for up/down) votes. So at least 10 replies + something with the age of the topic. [OT] is usally a good hint about the quality of the topic but people must remember to add it when they slide.
Jul 30 2016
parent reply Seb <seb wilzba.ch> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 23:33:27 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 23:11:23 UTC, Seb wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 22:52:23 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:30:55 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody 
 who actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep 
 thinking that. also, don't forget to teach physics to 
 physicians, medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure 
 that you will have a great success as a stupidiest comic 
 they ever seen in their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
Fucking schyzo ;) Have you took your little pills today ?
Well this is beautiful marketing for the language. At some point, the leadership will need to put away ideology and get realistic about what belongs on this site.
I would love to see the forum evolve into something similar to reddit, where everyone can judge the value of a comment/thread and off-topic threads (or threads with low-values) get down-voted very quickly. It might also help to avoid such 50 pages threads (like auto-decoding) as the most-important thread stays on top and newcomers to the discussion don't have to read everything to get the gist.
Preliminary documentation work: https://medium.com/hacking-and-gonzo/how-reddit-ranking-algorithms-work-ef111e33d0d9#.vawc5kat8 And you wan submit the result on Pantallex DFeeds. The widget on the homepage must use something similar (except for up/down) votes. So at least 10 replies + something with the age of the topic. [OT] is usally a good hint about the quality of the topic but people must remember to add it when they slide.
I am not sure whether CyberShadow has the time to add this feature, so I doubt this will come in the near future without someone volunteering and implementing it. The code is here, so if anyone wants to send him a PR: https://github.com/CyberShadow/DFeed From recent experiences one should definitely get the okay of Andrei & Walter first that such a huge change is wanted. In any case I was trying to say that we could use reddit more actively, we have our own subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/d_language), but it's not used for discussions. So maybe killing the bot & actively encouraging a discussion to move to reddit once it hits the OT barrier, might be an easy solution. I opened a thread on reddit about this, in case you are interested ;-) https://www.reddit.com/r/d_language/comments/4vel7m/can_we_kill_the_dlang_bot_and_its_ghost_threads
Jul 30 2016
parent bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 23:43:33 UTC, Seb wrote:
 In any case I was trying to say that we could use reddit more 
 actively, we have our own subreddit 
 (https://www.reddit.com/r/d_language), but it's not used for 
 discussions. So maybe killing the bot & actively encouraging a 
 discussion to move to reddit once it hits the OT barrier, might 
 be an easy solution.

 I opened a thread on reddit about this, in case you are 
 interested ;-)

 https://www.reddit.com/r/d_language/comments/4vel7m/can_we_kill_the_dlang_bot_and_its_ghost_threads
I added my thoughts to that thread. You should probably post this in general as well, as few people are going to see your announcement here. I wouldn't ask what people think though. I'd just say you've started doing it. Anyone is free to post discussions in that subreddit.
Jul 30 2016
prev sibling parent reply Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 23:11:23 UTC, Seb wrote:
 I would love to see the forum evolve into something
 similar to reddit
I have a strong dislike of reddit (and thus rarely post there), it is really hard to use and the voting system is petty. The D ng isn't perfect, but it is basically OK. I do think some of us ought to use a bit more discretion when posting, and it might help for some of us to call things out... or sometimes be quiet and not feed the trolls, but for the most part it is decent here.
Jul 30 2016
parent reply bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Sunday, 31 July 2016 at 00:04:41 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
 I have a strong dislike of reddit (and thus rarely post there), 
 it is really hard to use and the voting system is petty.
But this would be our own subreddit. I don't disagree if you're talking about r/programming.
Jul 30 2016
parent Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 31 July 2016 at 04:51:13 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
 But this would be our own subreddit. I don't disagree if you're 
 talking about r/programming.
Oh, the people are terrible, but the platform is worse - I don't like the tree view nor the voting system. It makes it really hard to follow developing discussions and judge the content for yourself. I'm someone who either reads the whole thread and tries to respond holistically or just doesn't post at all (usually), so segmenting the thread into subthreads with new stuff popping up in the middle at random where it is really hard to actually find it (sometimes I search a reddit page for "minutes ago"...) just kills it. Reddit encourages hyper fragmentation and repeating the same opinions over and over again.
Jul 31 2016
prev sibling parent Jon Degenhardt <jond noreply.com> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 22:52:23 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:30:55 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody 
 who actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep 
 thinking that. also, don't forget to teach physics to 
 physicians, medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure 
 that you will have a great success as a stupidiest comic they 
 ever seen in their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
Fucking schyzo ;) Have you took your little pills today ?
Well this is beautiful marketing for the language. At some point, the leadership will need to put away ideology and get realistic about what belongs on this site.
I agree with this sentiment. One of D's strengths is the helpful responses on the Learn forum. It is something the D community can be proud of. Participants in such personal attacks may view it as primarily as a 1-1 interchange, but they do take away from this strength. Better would be to move personal conflicts to some other venue.
Jul 31 2016
prev sibling parent reply LaTeigne <LaTeigne blabla.fr> writes:
On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody who 
 actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep thinking 
 that. also, don't forget to teach physics to physicians, 
 medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure that you will 
 have a great success as a stupidiest comic they ever seen in 
 their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?messageID=831486󊿾 Again an evidence of your super ego. You think that your own experiences stand for everybody while it's actually representing anything byt you, which is quite near from the nil.
Jul 31 2016
parent reply Gorge Jingale <Frifj mail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 31 July 2016 at 10:11:46 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody who 
 actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep thinking 
 that. also, don't forget to teach physics to physicians, 
 medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure that you will 
 have a great success as a stupidiest comic they ever seen in 
 their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?messageID=831486󊿾 Again an evidence of your super ego. You think that your own experiences stand for everybody while it's actually representing anything byt you, which is quite near from the nil.
He clearly suffers from NPD. I believe this is due to ignorance of experience. With such little real world experience one conjures up their own fabricated sense of reality that revolves around themselves. Such people lack the ability to understand others experiences and write them off because they do not coincide with their own. It's a form of the god complex, yet clearly these people are not god and generally not even that intelligent, experienced in life , etc, or happen just to be good at one thing which they treat as the only thing that matters; which is illogical and insane but very convenient for them.
Jul 31 2016
parent LaTeigne <LaTeigne blabla.fr> writes:
On Sunday, 31 July 2016 at 18:15:49 UTC, Gorge Jingale wrote:
 On Sunday, 31 July 2016 at 10:11:46 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:24:55 UTC, ketmar wrote:
 On Saturday, 30 July 2016 at 12:18:08 UTC, LaTeigne wrote:

 it you think that you know the things better than somebody 
 who actually *lived* there in those times... well, keep 
 thinking that. also, don't forget to teach physics to 
 physicians, medicine to medics, and so on. i'm pretty sure 
 that you will have a great success as a stupidiest comic they 
 ever seen in their life.

 also, don't bother answering me, i won't see it anyway.
https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?messageID=831486󊿾 Again an evidence of your super ego. You think that your own experiences stand for everybody while it's actually representing anything byt you, which is quite near from the nil.
He clearly suffers from NPD. I believe this is due to ignorance of experience. With such little real world experience one conjures up their own fabricated sense of reality that revolves around themselves. Such people lack the ability to understand others experiences and write them off because they do not coincide with their own. It's a form of the god complex, yet clearly these people are not god and generally not even that intelligent, experienced in life , etc, or happen just to be good at one thing which they treat as the only thing that matters; which is illogical and insane but very convenient for them.
No his condition is not NPD. The other day he said publicly on IRC what it's but I don't remember the exact name. But it's serious, e.g you can find it in the DSM-5, with a specific code, designation etc. Let's close this discussion for real this time. I'm sorry for the trolling but at a time i wanted to be right for this stupid story of academic license...
Aug 01 2016