digitalmars.D.ide - Why lack of good IDE doesn't peek your attention
- SC (28/28) Feb 07 2017 Hello
- Jerry (10/38) Feb 08 2017 Well it doesn't look like rust is actually supporting an ide
- singingbush (5/8) Mar 09 2017 There's a new build (v1.11) for the Intellij D Language plugin:
- Grander (17/25) Mar 10 2017 Does it still rely on DCD?
- Dmitry (3/8) Mar 13 2017 I don't think that problem is in DCD, because in Xamarin Studio
- Jolly James (2/11) Mar 13 2017 That's because it does NOT use DCD.
- Simon Timothy (9/17) Apr 05 2017 Seeing how JetBrains now created an IDE for Go ultimately shows
- Eliatto (6/28) Apr 10 2017 Is it possible to create a feature request (and vote for it)
- Dmitry (2/7) Apr 11 2017 They won't do it, because it is not commercially viable for them.
- Ervin Bosenbacher (2/9) Apr 21 2017 Should be called DRagon imho :)
- Gru (43/43) Aug 06 2017 Hi, I have also been a long time lurker of the D language. D
- Basile B. (7/35) Feb 10 2017 You're snob.
- SC (6/12) Feb 10 2017 There is 0 IDE with auto import, smart completion, refactor
- Jerry (15/20) Feb 11 2017 You pretty much need to recreate the wheel, if you strip out all
- Sergey Orlov (14/42) Mar 13 2017 I am agree with your opinion too. I just would like to start with
- Mike Parker (4/5) Mar 13 2017 With Java, I can't get by without an IDE anymore, but with D I
- SamwiseFilmore (20/25) Aug 17 2017 Amen.
- Gru (16/44) Aug 18 2017 The talk mentioned is neither pro-tooling not counter-tooling. In
- XavierAP (3/12) Mar 13 2017 I'm using the Visual D plugin on Windows. After having used
- burber (20/20) Mar 18 2017 Yeah I personally think having an IDE that holds an environment
Hello I'm a long time lurker, i always wanted to learn a system But the problem i got with D is the lack of IDE, when you program essential to be productive, and to learn new things thanks to IDE features such as inspections Even Rust have great IDE support with IntelliJ, same for Haskell, same for Go I see people creating their own ide, or rely on code editors like vs code / atom / sublime I find this really counter productive, not because they are bad or uncomplete, because people don't want to use other tools, for some people they use one IDE for all their projects (IntelliJ Guys, it's time to focus on IDE support, it's even in the road map of rust https://blog.rust-lang.org/2017/02/06/roadmap.html Good IDE support that everyone use (IntelliJ or VS, IntelliJ would be best candidate since it's crossplatform, that's why Rust and Go choosed it) will be a huge boost for the language adoption IMO I'm currently learning Rust, and having a great intellij plugin helped me a lot to learn it, and i feel comfortable with it, but i'm dropping it because i don't like the language syntax So guys i hope you'll think about this and put all effort in one IDE to make sure newbies can get their hand on D easily It's hard for me to explain since my english is really bad Thanks
Feb 07 2017
On Tuesday, 7 February 2017 at 15:48:43 UTC, SC wrote:Hello I'm a long time lurker, i always wanted to learn a system But the problem i got with D is the lack of IDE, when you support is essential to be productive, and to learn new things thanks to IDE features such as inspections Even Rust have great IDE support with IntelliJ, same for Haskell, same for Go I see people creating their own ide, or rely on code editors like vs code / atom / sublime I find this really counter productive, not because they are bad or uncomplete, because people don't want to use other tools, for some people they use one IDE for all their projects Guys, it's time to focus on IDE support, it's even in the road map of rust https://blog.rust-lang.org/2017/02/06/roadmap.html Good IDE support that everyone use (IntelliJ or VS, IntelliJ would be best candidate since it's crossplatform, that's why Rust and Go choosed it) will be a huge boost for the language adoption IMO I'm currently learning Rust, and having a great intellij plugin helped me a lot to learn it, and i feel comfortable with it, but i'm dropping it because i don't like the language syntax So guys i hope you'll think about this and put all effort in one IDE to make sure newbies can get their hand on D easily It's hard for me to explain since my english is really bad ThanksWell it doesn't look like rust is actually supporting an ide itself. It is just providing the tools that run in the background that then someone else can use to integrate with an IDE. The intellij rust plugin looks to be run by people that are just doing it in their free time. So rust didn't really choose Intellij by the looks of it. There was also someone who was working on an Intellij plugin for D but it doesn't seem like they are working on it that much anymore. https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguage
Feb 08 2017
On Wednesday, 8 February 2017 at 15:55:09 UTC, Jerry wrote:There was also someone who was working on an Intellij plugin for D but it doesn't seem like they are working on it that much anymore. https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguageThere's a new build (v1.11) for the Intellij D Language plugin: https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguage/releases which should be in the plugin repo soon: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8115-d-language?pr=idea
Mar 09 2017
On Thursday, 9 March 2017 at 21:42:05 UTC, singingbush wrote:On Wednesday, 8 February 2017 at 15:55:09 UTC, Jerry wrote:Does it still rely on DCD? If yes, then it still sucks. Shitty to set up, buggy in usage, bad and horribly slow autocompletion. Thanks Hackerpilot, you created good software that is good at what it has been made for. But unfortunately all those lazy "pro-user" abused it for simply bodging it into their favorite IDE wich caused combined with their lack of skills a total disaster of D support. Moreover, as most of those plugins are also written in D, no new user, who is searching for a good IDE, will ever be interested in contributing to those projects as they would have to write D code for creating good IDE support, but without a useful IDE. If combating the horror leads to even more horror, noone will ever do it - for comprehensible reasons. Regards, GranderThere was also someone who was working on an Intellij plugin for D but it doesn't seem like they are working on it that much anymore. https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguageThere's a new build (v1.11) for the Intellij D Language plugin: https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguage/releases which should be in the plugin repo soon: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8115-d-language?pr=idea
Mar 10 2017
On Saturday, 11 March 2017 at 01:02:44 UTC, Grander wrote:Does it still rely on DCD? If yes, then it still sucks. Shitty to set up, buggy in usage, bad and horribly slow autocompletion. Thanks Hackerpilot, you created good software that is good at what it has been made for.I don't think that problem is in DCD, because in Xamarin Studio it works instantly, without any lags.
Mar 13 2017
On Monday, 13 March 2017 at 07:02:57 UTC, Dmitry wrote:On Saturday, 11 March 2017 at 01:02:44 UTC, Grander wrote:That's because it does NOT use DCD.Does it still rely on DCD? If yes, then it still sucks. Shitty to set up, buggy in usage, bad and horribly slow autocompletion. Thanks Hackerpilot, you created good software that is good at what it has been made for.I don't think that problem is in DCD, because in Xamarin Studio it works instantly, without any lags.
Mar 13 2017
On Thursday, 9 March 2017 at 21:42:05 UTC, singingbush wrote:On Wednesday, 8 February 2017 at 15:55:09 UTC, Jerry wrote:Seeing how JetBrains now created an IDE for Go ultimately shows how D failed. D is much older. Anyway, there is no official support built into any JetBrains product (and they support almost everything, or at least build tools to enhance other IDEs). Quite sad. And now give anybody a reason to learn D. When you instead could IDEs...There was also someone who was working on an Intellij plugin for D but it doesn't seem like they are working on it that much anymore. https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguageThere's a new build (v1.11) for the Intellij D Language plugin: https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguage/releases which should be in the plugin repo soon: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8115-d-language?pr=idea
Apr 05 2017
On Wednesday, 5 April 2017 at 16:57:40 UTC, Simon Timothy wrote:On Thursday, 9 March 2017 at 21:42:05 UTC, singingbush wrote:Is it possible to create a feature request (and vote for it) concerning official D language support (in order to ask development team to start "DLion" in a couple of years)? I haven't found any topics related to dlang here https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/On Wednesday, 8 February 2017 at 15:55:09 UTC, Jerry wrote:Seeing how JetBrains now created an IDE for Go ultimately shows how D failed. D is much older. Anyway, there is no official support built into any JetBrains product (and they support almost everything, or at least build tools to enhance other IDEs). Quite sad. And now give anybody a reason to learn D. When you instead by great IDEs...There was also someone who was working on an Intellij plugin for D but it doesn't seem like they are working on it that much anymore. https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguageThere's a new build (v1.11) for the Intellij D Language plugin: https://github.com/kingsleyh/DLanguage/releases which should be in the plugin repo soon: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8115-d-language?pr=idea
Apr 10 2017
On Monday, 10 April 2017 at 17:42:26 UTC, Eliatto wrote:Is it possible to create a feature request (and vote for it) concerning official D language support (in order to ask development team to start "DLion" in a couple of years)? I haven't found any topics related to dlang here https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/They won't do it, because it is not commercially viable for them.
Apr 11 2017
On Monday, 10 April 2017 at 17:42:26 UTC, Eliatto wrote:On Wednesday, 5 April 2017 at 16:57:40 UTC, Simon Timothy wrote:Should be called DRagon imho :)[...]Is it possible to create a feature request (and vote for it) concerning official D language support (in order to ask development team to start "DLion" in a couple of years)? I haven't found any topics related to dlang here https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/
Apr 21 2017
Hi, I have also been a long time lurker of the D language. D while having worked in other C-based languages like Java and C. I also used Visual Studio for years. A couple of months ago, I tried setting up an IDE. VisualD, MonoD, This thing with IntelliJ, and VSCode plugins - none of them worked out of the box. The way I tried to install it is like a normal user. I would try installation while following the steps and if it doesn't work I quit. Yes, I could probably troubleshoot the installation but that's the core problem: if the installation is broken you will simply lose the confidence in the product as a person evaluating the product. While the OSS community "likes" these kinds of installations, they are a death for the interest of general public. As someone coming into D from the outside, I cannot state how big of a problem this is for user adoption. Go is the proof that language is not sold by its features, it is sold by the perception for the users. What's more important than being good is making a good impression and that is basics of sales. Also, you may think that a good IDE is not important. Let's put it this way, from an a lazy user point of view, if we wanted to skimp on productivity, why use a high-level language after all? tooling support is ludicrous. If the code completion does not work, forget it. People spend enough time troubleshooting their own software. Imagine a compiler that works 100%, but only 90% of the time. This simply does not cut it. The relationship of the how in LINQ you type 'from' before 'select' even though you'd expect it to be the other way around? Well, one of the reasons is so they could offer better tooling support this way, and that's an example of how the language can be influenced by the IDE. At the end of the day, it all comes down to workflows. Either we are doing stuff (such as debugging) faster and better or we are not. This is the Really important stuff, the end-to-end thinking which gets the job done and never focuses on the details at the expense of something more important down the pipeline. I believe D can be a popular language, and it can build on the C++ popularity, but it needs to have really reliable tooling. In service for an IDE needs to work extremely reliably, just like any system.
Aug 06 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 12:12:01 UTC, Gru wrote:I believe D can be a popular language, and it can build on the C++ popularity, but it needs to have really reliable tooling. language service for an IDE needs to work extremely reliably, just like any system.I agree with you. I think that community members should choose one IDE by voting and donate money to IDE developers. For example, we will choose winner in 2017 among existing crossplatform solutions (aka IDE of the year). Then we will donate to the team for some period. The most wanted feature is a refactoring server (IMHO), which can be shared among different IDEs.
Aug 08 2017
On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 12:12:01 UTC, Gru wrote:language service for an IDE needs to work extremely reliably, just like any system.When I open C++ project in visual studio, C++ language service disappears too, probably crashes too, but silenced and becomes non-functional.
Aug 25 2017
On Friday, 25 August 2017 at 13:09:16 UTC, Kagamin wrote:On Sunday, 6 August 2017 at 12:12:01 UTC, Gru wrote:The IDE i used for D is often opened during the whole daytime, even sometimes several days. It's reliable and never crashes.language service for an IDE needs to work extremely reliably, just like any system.
Aug 25 2017
On Tuesday, 7 February 2017 at 15:48:43 UTC, SC wrote:Hello I'm a long time lurker, i always wanted to learn a system But the problem i got with D is the lack of IDE, when you support is essential to be productive, and to learn new things thanks to IDE features such as inspections Even Rust have great IDE support with IntelliJ, same for Haskell, same for Go I see people creating their own ide, or rely on code editors like vs code / atom / sublime I find this really counter productive, not because they are bad or uncomplete, because people don't want to use other tools, for some people they use one IDE for all their projects Guys, it's time to focus on IDE support, it's even in the road map of rust https://blog.rust-lang.org/2017/02/06/roadmap.html Good IDE support that everyone use (IntelliJ or VS, IntelliJ would be best candidate since it's crossplatform, that's why Rust and Go choosed it) will be a huge boost for the language adoption IMO I'm currently learning Rust, and having a great intellij plugin helped me a lot to learn it, and i feel comfortable with it, but i'm dropping it because i don't like the language syntax So guys i hope you'll think about this and put all effort in one IDE to make sure newbies can get their hand on D easily It's hard for me to explain since my english is really bad ThanksYou're snob. I use daily a D IDE, it works fine. When I have something to test I make runnable, otherwise there's projects etc... When I say "daily", it's not a joke. Yesterday I had to reboot for some reason but otherwise the IDE can run in background during days...
Feb 10 2017
On Friday, 10 February 2017 at 18:03:39 UTC, Basile B. wrote:You're snob. I use daily a D IDE, it works fine. When I have something to test I make runnable, otherwise there's projects etc... When I say "daily", it's not a joke. Yesterday I had to reboot for some reason but otherwise the IDE can run in background during days...There is 0 IDE with auto import, smart completion, refactor tools, built-in VCS, code generation This is why i ask why people make their IDE instead of using from starting existing base like IntelliJ No need recreate the wheel
Feb 10 2017
On Saturday, 11 February 2017 at 00:35:45 UTC, SC wrote:There is 0 IDE with auto import, smart completion, refactor tools, built-in VCS, code generation This is why i ask why people make their IDE instead of using from starting existing base like IntelliJ No need recreate the wheelYou pretty much need to recreate the wheel, if you strip out all the language features of Intellij it becomes a shell just like any other IDE out there. You have to implement all the functionality for the specific language. There are good IDEs out there that provide enough functionality to make coding easy enough. You can look at Visual D or Mono D, both are decent. Those features aren't that easy to implement, most of the IDEs for D all use the same backend tools. Sure you like to use Intellij, but there aren't enough people for that. Most of the IDE plugins are written by a single person, whereas something like CLion is written by a whole team dedicated to working on it. It just isn't going to happen. Even then CLion is still horrible at doing things like refactoring. It's still stuck with having to use CMake as well, not everyone wants to use that.
Feb 11 2017
D lang exist for more than a decade and it still haven't got a proper IDE with decent debugging support The comunity is splitting their effort in personal IDE projects that will die at some point because lack of interest/motivation I know lot of people who prefer to learn something else because of lack of IDE/Tooling
Feb 16 2017
On Thursday, 16 February 2017 at 18:04:43 UTC, SC wrote:D lang exist for more than a decade and it still haven't got a proper IDE with decent debugging support The comunity is splitting their effort in personal IDE projects that will die at some point because lack of interest/motivation I know lot of people who prefer to learn something else because of lack of IDE/ToolingThey aren't really splitting their efforts, there isn't much to implement as they all use the same backend tools that provides all the functionality. It' just the small amount of code to integrate it. People do what they do cause they want to. I would hate the fact if everyone just got up and only developed a Intellij plugin. I don't like those IDEs, they tend to be slow and bloated. Have you even tried Mono D or Visual D? They have decent debugging support. Just cause there isn't an Intellij plugin doesn't mean there aren't decent IDEs.
Feb 16 2017
On Friday, 17 February 2017 at 05:53:41 UTC, Jerry wrote:Have you even tried Mono D or Visual D? They have decent debugging support.Mono D has no debugging support on Windows.
Feb 17 2017
On Thursday, 16 February 2017 at 18:04:43 UTC, SC wrote:D lang exist for more than a decade and it still haven't got a proper IDE with decent debugging supportTry Visual D.
Feb 17 2017
All these ones have poor auto-completion, no import suggestion, poor debugging feature, when comparing to something like Visual Stuido, QT Creator or Clion, it is far far behind, good editor = productivity boost, that's what companies want
Feb 28 2017
On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 at 00:47:23 UTC, SC wrote:All these ones have poor auto-completion, no import suggestion, poor debugging feature, when comparing to something like Visual Stuido, QT Creator or Clion, it is far far behind, good editor = productivity boost, that's what companies wantD need SDC compiler to mature to improve tooling.
Mar 01 2017
On Friday, 17 February 2017 at 09:21:10 UTC, Kagamin wrote:On Thursday, 16 February 2017 at 18:04:43 UTC, SC wrote:^ Currently my weapon of choice. Best IDE at the moment. Breakpoints are buggy with DMD for me, but work perfectly with LDC.D lang exist for more than a decade and it still haven't got a proper IDE with decent debugging supportTry Visual D.
Aug 31 2017
On Tuesday, 7 February 2017 at 15:48:43 UTC, SC wrote:Hello I'm a long time lurker, i always wanted to learn a system But the problem i got with D is the lack of IDE, when you support is essential to be productive, and to learn new things thanks to IDE features such as inspections Even Rust have great IDE support with IntelliJ, same for Haskell, same for Go I see people creating their own ide, or rely on code editors like vs code / atom / sublime I find this really counter productive, not because they are bad or uncomplete, because people don't want to use other tools, for some people they use one IDE for all their projects Guys, it's time to focus on IDE support, it's even in the road map of rust https://blog.rust-lang.org/2017/02/06/roadmap.html Good IDE support that everyone use (IntelliJ or VS, IntelliJ would be best candidate since it's crossplatform, that's why Rust and Go choosed it) will be a huge boost for the language adoption IMO I'm currently learning Rust, and having a great intellij plugin helped me a lot to learn it, and i feel comfortable with it, but i'm dropping it because i don't like the language syntax So guys i hope you'll think about this and put all effort in one IDE to make sure newbies can get their hand on D easily It's hard for me to explain since my english is really bad ThanksI am agree with your opinion too. I just would like to start with D from .NET and Java world. Two days I am searching some working IDE. So powerful language and nothing about IDE. My exp are (Windows 10, 64 bit): 1. DLangIDE - amazing, natural, simple and fast. DCD works till first start debugging (Linux Mint too) 2. VisualD - can not even build HelloWorld Enterprise :) app (path problem) 3. TextAdept - DScanner works, DCD failed to work 4. .... Just would like to ask where people write code?
Mar 13 2017
On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 01:32:30 UTC, Sergey Orlov wrote:Just would like to ask where people write code?With Java, I can't get by without an IDE anymore, but with D I just don't need one. I feel they actually get in my way. Sublime Text and Visual Studio Code do just fine.
Mar 13 2017
On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 04:27:28 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 01:32:30 UTC, Sergey Orlov wrote:Amen. I feel like IDE's like IntelliJ or Visual Studio allow the programmer to write programs TOO conveniently, besides them being quite overblown. In a lot of cases, you can autocomplete your way through the API, and end up with a large piece of source code that you don't understand, because you didn't write it. Your IDE did. I use atom with syntax highlighting and a terminal. Dub has a very nice and concise CLI that makes it really convenient to use, and it does everything I need and then some for a build system. Work is going on to get better autocomplete and inline error checking for atom, but even that makes me a tiny bit nervous about code quality. In general, I don't believe in using these huge tools because they turn an engineer into an end-user. There is a really good lecture that was given at DConf 2017 by Scott Meyers. I recommend you listen to the whole thing, but he has a section on tooling, which begins at 25:15 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT46MpK39rQ That addresses concerns about C++ mainly, but also shines some light on places where D excels and where it doesn't.Just would like to ask where people write code?With Java, I can't get by without an IDE anymore, but with D I just don't need one. I feel they actually get in my way. Sublime Text and Visual Studio Code do just fine.
Aug 17 2017
On Thursday, 17 August 2017 at 23:49:54 UTC, SamwiseFilmore wrote:On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 04:27:28 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:The talk mentioned is neither pro-tooling not counter-tooling. In fact, the takeaway can be "make your language easily tool-able so you don't have to write complex tools yourself". I simply cannot agree with a point above. Because you have autocomplete does not mean you don't understand the API. I don't even know how would you ever write code without understanding the API. My take is those archaic tools turn a programmer into a typist. If anyone is using a CLI or vim or whatever does not make him any better then someone using a GUI and an IDE. Focusing on tiring ceremony does not make one a better engineer. We are always working with software layers, and so we are end users of something. The best decision is working on the layer that is most appropriate. Sometimes it's low-level, sometimes it's high level.On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 01:32:30 UTC, Sergey Orlov wrote:Amen. I feel like IDE's like IntelliJ or Visual Studio allow the programmer to write programs TOO conveniently, besides them being quite overblown. In a lot of cases, you can autocomplete your way through the API, and end up with a large piece of source code that you don't understand, because you didn't write it. Your IDE did. I use atom with syntax highlighting and a terminal. Dub has a very nice and concise CLI that makes it really convenient to use, and it does everything I need and then some for a build system. Work is going on to get better autocomplete and inline error checking for atom, but even that makes me a tiny bit nervous about code quality. In general, I don't believe in using these huge tools because they turn an engineer into an end-user. There is a really good lecture that was given at DConf 2017 by Scott Meyers. I recommend you listen to the whole thing, but he has a section on tooling, which begins at 25:15 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT46MpK39rQ That addresses concerns about C++ mainly, but also shines some light on places where D excels and where it doesn't.Just would like to ask where people write code?With Java, I can't get by without an IDE anymore, but with D I just don't need one. I feel they actually get in my way. Sublime Text and Visual Studio Code do just fine.
Aug 18 2017
On Tuesday, 14 March 2017 at 01:32:30 UTC, Sergey Orlov wrote:My exp are (Windows 10, 64 bit): 1. DLangIDE - amazing, natural, simple and fast. DCD works till first start debugging (Linux Mint too) 2. VisualD - can not even build HelloWorld Enterprise :) app (path problem) 3. TextAdept - DScanner works, DCD failed to work 4. .... Just would like to ask where people write code?I'm using the Visual D plugin on Windows. After having used
Mar 13 2017
Yeah I personally think having an IDE that holds an environment similar to a Java IDE it would be pretty nice. Something like IntelliJ for D (the plugin is alright but it isn't as fast as writing Java in IntelliJ when I write D. Right now I use Eclipse with DDT since it has a nice auto completion feature and some other stuff. It's pretty good, but creating D files is kinda weird. You don't create a D class, you create a blank file that you have to manually set the extension type to and is in a folder rather than something like a package/module. I tried some other IDEs that were on the Wiki but they either a) didn't work or b) weren't that good. With the IntelliJ plugin (which seems pretty good in the screenshots) it crashed the IDE and produced a bunch of errors. I think if D wanted to attract more attention or appeal to the Java crowd, they could quite easily do that and gain a lot more users if they were to create an IDE that was very similar in terms of assisting the user in typing automatically like almost any popular Java IDE. I really hope an IDE is released that is what I'm describing and if their isn't I'll have to look into making one.
Mar 18 2017