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digitalmars.D.ide - Status/future of the DDT project?

reply Samuel Lampa <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se> writes:
Hi,

I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to develop att 
UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux, that 
supports debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code completion.

I found out about the DDT project, after seeing that Descent is dead 
[1], and just wanted to hear what is the current status for the project 
(etc for the very technical status, I can try to figure out myself), is 
it going to be actively maintained in the foreseeable future etc?

I tried also the Code::Blocks editor, but while it seems to work, I tend 
to like working in the rock-solid base platform of Eclipse, so I really 
hope DDT will be actively developed!

(What IDE are you other linux people using for development btw? )

Best
// Samuel

-- 
System Expert / Bioinformatician
SNIC-UPPMAX HPC Center
Uppsala University, Sweden
--------------------------------------
E-mail: samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se
Phone: +46 (0)18 - 471 1060
WWW: http://www.uppmax.uu.se
Uppnex: https://www.uppnex.uu.se
Aug 01 2011
next sibling parent reply Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
Am 01.08.2011, 13:39 Uhr, schrieb Samuel Lampa  
<samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se>:

 Hi,

 I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to develop att  
 UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux, that  
 supports debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code completion.
I think DDT doesn't support debugging yet. But unfortunately there's no real alternative (I know of).
Aug 01 2011
next sibling parent Robert McGinley <mcginley.robert gmail.com> writes:
	charset=us-ascii

I put a request into JetBrains to have intellij idea or a stand alone =
product support D =
http://youtrack.jetbrains.net/issue/IDEA-72124?query=3DD+Programming+langu=
age =20
I don't know if anyone here is a fan of their IDE's but I find their =
tools to be quite good.  =20

Rob

On Aug 1, 2011, at 1:16 PM, Trass3r wrote:

 Am 01.08.2011, 13:39 Uhr, schrieb Samuel Lampa =
<samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se>:
=20
 Hi,
=20
 I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to develop =
att UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux, that = supports debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code completion.
=20
 I think DDT doesn't support debugging yet.
 But unfortunately there's no real alternative (I know of).
Aug 01 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Ary Manzana <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:
On 8/1/11 2:16 PM, Trass3r wrote:
 Am 01.08.2011, 13:39 Uhr, schrieb Samuel Lampa
 <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se>:

 Hi,

 I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to develop att
 UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux, that
 supports debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code completion.
I think DDT doesn't support debugging yet. But unfortunately there's no real alternative (I know of).
Someone could try to contribute to DDT by extracting Descent's debugger from it (the code is totally separated from other IDE features so it's should be straight forward). Though Descent's debugger only worked with ddbg (dead, I think) and gdb (which kind of understands D, but not that much).
Aug 01 2011
parent reply Andrew Wiley <wiley.andrew.j gmail.com> writes:
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Ary Manzana <ary esperanto.org.ar> wrote:

 On 8/1/11 2:16 PM, Trass3r wrote:

 Am 01.08.2011, 13:39 Uhr, schrieb Samuel Lampa
 <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se**>:

  Hi,
 I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to develop att
 UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux, that
 supports debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code completion.
I think DDT doesn't support debugging yet. But unfortunately there's no real alternative (I know of).
Someone could try to contribute to DDT by extracting Descent's debugger from it (the code is totally separated from other IDE features so it's should be straight forward). Though Descent's debugger only worked with ddbg (dead, I think) and gdb (which kind of understands D, but not that much).
That's the trick. I don't know about the rest of you, but I haven't had any luck figuring out how to debug code compiled by DMD with any sort of efficiency, so I've just been using GDC for everything. The problem is that integrating gdb would require the IDE to know the difference between the two, which is non-trivial. And if I can't even find the symbol I want in an executable compiled by DMD, how would I code an IDE that could?
Aug 01 2011
parent reply Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 01/08/2011 20:14, Andrew Wiley wrote:
 On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Ary Manzana <ary esperanto.org.ar
 <mailto:ary esperanto.org.ar>> wrote:

     On 8/1/11 2:16 PM, Trass3r wrote:

         Am 01.08.2011, 13:39 Uhr, schrieb Samuel Lampa
         <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se
         <mailto:samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se>__>:

             Hi,

             I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to
             develop att
             UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux,
             that
             supports debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code
             completion.


         I think DDT doesn't support debugging yet.
         But unfortunately there's no real alternative (I know of).


     Someone could try to contribute to DDT by extracting Descent's
     debugger from it (the code is totally separated from other IDE
     features so it's should be straight forward). Though Descent's
     debugger only worked with ddbg (dead, I think) and gdb (which kind
     of understands D, but not that much).


 That's the trick. I don't know about the rest of you, but I haven't had
 any luck figuring out how to debug code compiled by DMD with any sort of
 efficiency, so I've just been using GDC for everything. The problem is
 that integrating gdb would require the IDE to know the difference
 between the two, which is non-trivial.
 And if I can't even find the symbol I want in an executable compiled by
 DMD, how would I code an IDE that could?
The next DDT release should have support for the GDC compiler, as it has for DMD now. This is precursor step to actually supporting debugging with GDB. The question remains on what to do with regards to DMD debugging. It may easy enough to add support in Eclipse to an existing debugger, but if the debugger doesn't exist or is unsupported, it's a crappy situation. What's the status with ddbg btw? I know the project is dead, but the debugger itself, is it still fairly usable, or has it a lot of issues? I couldn't tell myself from just a quick look at it. -- Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Aug 03 2011
parent reply Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 03/08/2011 17:46, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
 The question remains on what to do with regards to DMD debugging. It may
 easy enough to add support in Eclipse to an existing debugger, but if
 the debugger doesn't exist or is unsupported, it's a crappy situation.
Clarification: I meant DMD debugging on Windows. I assume DMD works fairly well on Linux, since it generates debug info (DWARF on ELF?) that GDB understands. Is this correct? -- Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Aug 03 2011
next sibling parent Andrew Wiley <wiley.andrew.j gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Bruno Medeiros
<brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> wrote:

 On 03/08/2011 17:46, Bruno Medeiros wrote:

 The question remains on what to do with regards to DMD debugging. It may
 easy enough to add support in Eclipse to an existing debugger, but if
 the debugger doesn't exist or is unsupported, it's a crappy situation.
Clarification: I meant DMD debugging on Windows. I assume DMD works fairly well on Linux, since it generates debug info (DWARF on ELF?) that GDB understands. Is this correct? -- Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
With -g, it crashes GDB. With -gc, there's debug info, but all the symbol names seem to be mangled. Maybe I was just looking in the wrong place, but the few times I've tried to debug things compiled with -gc, I've rarely been able to find the symbol I wanted. I'm not sure why. As a note, you can currently build using GDC if you modify the arguments in the response file and use xargs to invoke GDC using the response file.
Aug 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Wednesday, August 03, 2011 10:26:19 AM, Andrew Wiley wrote:
 With -g, it crashes GDB. With -gc, there's debug info, but all the symbol
names seem to be mangled. Maybe I was just
 looking in the wrong place, but the few times I've tried to debug things
compiled with -gc, I've rarely been able to
 find the symbol I wanted. I'm not sure why.
 
 As a note, you can currently build using GDC if you modify the arguments in
the response file and use xargs to invoke
 GDC using the response file.
To get demangled symbols a very recent gdb release is required (something around 7.2). But there's still lots of not quite right issues between dmd and gdb. On 64 bit it's even worse than 32 bit. Somone with either a lot of time or a good bit of dwarf experience needs to do some more deep diving. The situation right now is better than it was a year ago, but it's still far from great. -gc really needs to become the default, and -g dropped into the waste basket of time, unle ss someone is going to invest sufficient time to get the D extensions actually supported in all the mainstream debuggers. It's just not a good experience for the most obvious debug flag to not work. Anyway, my 2 cents, Brad
Aug 03 2011
parent Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
 -gc really needs to become the default, and -g dropped into the waste
 basket of time, unless someone is going to invest sufficient time to
 get the D extensions actually supported in all the mainstream
 debuggers.  It's just not a good experience for the most obvious debug
 flag to not work.
-g + cv2pdb works well on Windows.
Aug 03 2011
prev sibling parent Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
Am 03.08.2011, 19:00 Uhr, schrieb Bruno Medeiros  
<brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail>:

 On 03/08/2011 17:46, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
 The question remains on what to do with regards to DMD debugging. It may
 easy enough to add support in Eclipse to an existing debugger, but if
 the debugger doesn't exist or is unsupported, it's a crappy situation.
Clarification: I meant DMD debugging on Windows. I assume DMD works fairly well on Linux, since it generates debug info (DWARF on ELF?) that GDB understands. Is this correct?
It's the other way around. Development and debugging is quite nice on Windows due to Visual D + cv2pdb.
Aug 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Samuel Lampa <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se> writes:
On 08/01/2011 07:16 PM, Trass3r wrote:
 Am 01.08.2011, 13:39 Uhr, schrieb Samuel Lampa 
 <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se>:

 Hi,

 I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to develop 
 att UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux, that 
 supports debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code completion.
I think DDT doesn't support debugging yet. But unfortunately there's no real alternative (I know of).
Thanks for all this input and hints, everybody! I think I'll keep an eye on DDT, and see if there is anything I can help with (at least submitting bugs, I guess). // Samuel -- System Expert / Bioinformatician SNIC-UPPMAX HPC Center Uppsala University, Sweden -------------------------------------- E-mail: samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se Phone: +46 (0)18 - 471 1060 WWW: http://www.uppmax.uu.se Uppnex: https://www.uppnex.uu.se
Aug 01 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Andrew Wiley <wiley.andrew.j gmail.com> writes:
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Samuel Lampa
<samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se>wrote:

 On 08/01/2011 07:16 PM, Trass3r wrote:

 Am 01.08.2011, 13:39 Uhr, schrieb Samuel Lampa <
 samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se**>:

  Hi,
 I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to develop att
 UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux, that supports
 debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code completion.
I think DDT doesn't support debugging yet. But unfortunately there's no real alternative (I know of).
Thanks for all this input and hints, everybody! I think I'll keep an eye on DDT, and see if there is anything I can help with (at least submitting bugs, I guess).
Bruno Medeiros pretty much does DDT these days, although his time is limited and he seems to check the mailing lists about once a month and send out a whole bunch of emails. He'll probably chime in at some point in the near future.
Aug 01 2011
parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 01/08/2011 21:47, Andrew Wiley wrote:
 Bruno Medeiros pretty much does DDT these days, although his time is
 limited and he seems to check the mailing lists about once a month and
 send out a whole bunch of emails. He'll probably chime in at some point
 in the near future.
For the most D newsgroups, yes, but I usually am up to date with D.announce and D.ide as they are much lower traffic (and more relevant) :) -- Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Aug 03 2011
prev sibling parent Samuel Lampa <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se> writes:
On 08/01/2011 10:47 PM, Andrew Wiley wrote:
 On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Samuel Lampa 
 <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se <mailto:samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se>> 
 wrote:

     On 08/01/2011 07:16 PM, Trass3r wrote:

         Am 01.08.2011, 13:39 Uhr, schrieb Samuel Lampa
         <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se
         <mailto:samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se>>:

             Hi,

             I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to
             develop att UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for
             use on Linux, that supports debugging (step/go-into etc)
             debugging and code completion.


         I think DDT doesn't support debugging yet.
         But unfortunately there's no real alternative (I know of).


     Thanks for all this input and hints, everybody!
     I think I'll keep an eye on DDT, and see if there is anything I
     can help with (at least submitting bugs, I guess).



 Bruno Medeiros pretty much does DDT these days, although his time is 
 limited and he seems to check the mailing lists about once a month and 
 send out a whole bunch of emails. He'll probably chime in at some 
 point in the near future.
Ok :) ... I'll keep an eye on the thread ... // Samuel -- System Expert / Bioinformatician SNIC-UPPMAX HPC Center Uppsala University, Sweden -------------------------------------- E-mail: samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se Phone: +46 (0)18 - 471 1060 WWW: http://www.uppmax.uu.se Uppnex: https://www.uppnex.uu.se
Aug 01 2011
prev sibling parent reply Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 01/08/2011 12:39, Samuel Lampa wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to develop att
 UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux, that
 supports debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code completion.

 I found out about the DDT project, after seeing that Descent is dead
 [1], and just wanted to hear what is the current status for the project
 (etc for the very technical status, I can try to figure out myself), is
 it going to be actively maintained in the foreseeable future etc?
At the moment it is just me working on DDT in any significant way (although Gyula Gubacsi aka progician has submitted some code). But I do plan and expect to work on it at least until the 1.0 milestone, which I consider to be a highly stable and usable state: Concretely, this means having debugger support, and updating/reimplementing the parser so that it is stable, recognizes the newer D2 language features, and is easy to modify (see http://code.google.com/a/eclipselabs.org/p/ddt/issues/list?can=2&q=parser ) I really can't quite say how long it will take until this point is reached. -- Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Aug 03 2011
parent Samuel Lampa <samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se> writes:
On 08/03/2011 06:35 PM, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
 On 01/08/2011 12:39, Samuel Lampa wrote:
 Hi,

 I'm looking into using D for some sysadmin tools I need to develop att
 UPPMAX, and thus is looking for a good IDE for use on Linux, that
 supports debugging (step/go-into etc) debugging and code completion.

 I found out about the DDT project, after seeing that Descent is dead
 [1], and just wanted to hear what is the current status for the project
 (etc for the very technical status, I can try to figure out myself), is
 it going to be actively maintained in the foreseeable future etc?
At the moment it is just me working on DDT in any significant way (although Gyula Gubacsi aka progician has submitted some code). But I do plan and expect to work on it at least until the 1.0 milestone, which I consider to be a highly stable and usable state: Concretely, this means having debugger support, and updating/reimplementing the parser so that it is stable, recognizes the newer D2 language features, and is easy to modify (see http://code.google.com/a/eclipselabs.org/p/ddt/issues/list?can=2&q=parser ) I really can't quite say how long it will take until this point is reached.
Ok, big thanks for the update! Very much looking forward to that :) (happened to mention my hopes for DDT in threads such as [1]). Also, though I don't know if my little bit of Eclipse RCP experience (from developing Bioclipse plugins) will really be enough for any more demanding stuff, I hope to find time for at least some testing/submitting bugs. // Samuel [1] http://biostar.stackexchange.com/questions/10785/what-bioinformatics-software-is-there-written-in-d/10793#10793 -- System Expert / Bioinformatician SNIC-UPPMAX HPC Center Uppsala University, Sweden -------------------------------------- E-mail: samuel.lampa scilifelab.uu.se Phone: +46 (0)18 - 471 1060 WWW: http://www.uppmax.uu.se Uppnex: https://www.uppnex.uu.se
Aug 03 2011