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reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
I wonder how accurate this language popularity index is.

Andrei
Apr 10 2011
next sibling parent reply Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
I was browsing through that D filter on google, and found this:
http://theinf2.informatik.uni-jena.de/For+Students/Lectures/D+Programming.html

This must be the second school to teach D that I know of, after I've
heard about Utah Valley University. It looks like D is catching up!
Apr 10 2011
next sibling parent reply bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Andrej Mitrovic:

 I was browsing through that D filter on google, and found this:
 http://theinf2.informatik.uni-jena.de/For+Students/Lectures/D+Programming.html
 
 This must be the second school to teach D that I know of, after I've
 heard about Utah Valley University. It looks like D is catching up!

From my experience teaching is _much_ better when it's bidirectional. This means that I'd encourage those teachers to collect some statistics, anecdotes, student comments and everything else potentially useful about D, to later feed back that information to this newsgroups and to Walter. Do you know the name or email address of those teachers? Insights from students are for example invaluable to find the harder to understand parts of the D language, or the most bug-prone for newbies, or the harder to teach. D2 language design is mostly done, but many design details can be improved still thanks to students/teachers feedback. One part of the D design that has not received an overhaul during the D1->D2 transition is the is() syntax. A syntax like this one shown in the D docs is *bad*: is(int[10] W : W[V], int V) This is almost worse than C++ template metaprogramming :-) Bye, bearophile
Apr 10 2011
parent FeepingCreature <default_357-line yahoo.de> writes:
On 11.04.2011 12:58, Trass3r wrote:
 Am 11.04.2011, 10:52 Uhr, schrieb Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de>:
 http://theinf2.informatik.uni-jena.de/For+Students/Lectures/D+Programming.html

see how it goes. Especially I'm interested in the students feedback. What do they find difficult? What do they find easy?

Nice idea. We need something like that in Ilmenau too ;)

Hey, we go to the same university! Neat!
Apr 11 2011
prev sibling parent spir <denis.spir gmail.com> writes:
On 04/11/2011 08:05 AM, bearophile wrote:
 Andrej Mitrovic:

  I was browsing through that D filter on google, and found this:
  http://theinf2.informatik.uni-jena.de/For+Students/Lectures/D+Programming.html

  This must be the second school to teach D that I know of, after I've
  heard about Utah Valley University. It looks like D is catching up!


Insights from students are for example invaluable to find the harder to understand parts of the D language, or the most bug-prone for newbies, or the harder to teach. D2 language design is mostly done, but many design details can be improved still thanks to students/teachers feedback.

Very true! Also: try to teach a language (or imagine you do) and consciously note every aspect that makes you feel uneasy --> list of probable design errors.
 One part of the D design that has not received an overhaul during the D1->D2
transition is the is() syntax. A syntax like this one shown in the D docs is
*bad*:
 is(int[10] W : W[V], int V)
 This is almost worse than C++ template metaprogramming :-)

is() may be the worst part of D2; simply obscure, cryptic Denis -- _________________ vita es estrany spir.wikidot.com
Apr 11 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Andrei:

 I wonder how accurate this language popularity index is.

It's grossly inaccurate, of course (Popularity? What's that? Is popularity more important than the hundreds or thousands of millions of lines of Cobol that are in use?), but it's a bit better than the ridiculous Tiobe Index. Bye, bearophile
Apr 10 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Francisco Almeida <francisco.m.almeida gmail.com> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:

 I wonder how accurate this language popularity index is.
 
 Andrei

Not only is popularity not well defined, some interesting oddities are present. Delphi and Pascal? "Both" more popular than D or even Go? Seriously?
Apr 10 2011
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Francisco Almeida" <francisco.m.almeida gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:inu0sq$235f$1 digitalmars.com...
 Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:

 I wonder how accurate this language popularity index is.

 Andrei

Not only is popularity not well defined, some interesting oddities are present. Delphi and Pascal? "Both" more popular than D or even Go? Seriously?

D and Go definitely have more buzz lately, but I wouldn't be surprised if Delphi and Pascal have still had more total usage overall. And there's probably more people (particularly rank-and-file programmers) who have heard of Delphi and Pascal. So that, too, just gets back to whatever their definition of "popularity" is.
Apr 11 2011
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 4/11/2011 1:00 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 D and Go definitely have more buzz lately, but I wouldn't be surprised if
 Delphi and Pascal have still had more total usage overall. And there's
 probably more people (particularly rank-and-file programmers) who have heard
 of Delphi and Pascal. So that, too, just gets back to whatever their
 definition of "popularity" is.

Pascal died 20 years ago. C++ utterly routed it. Delphi about 10 years ago when Borland sank.
Apr 11 2011
parent Piotr Szturmaj <bncrbme jadamspam.pl> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 On 4/11/2011 1:00 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 D and Go definitely have more buzz lately, but I wouldn't be surprised if
 Delphi and Pascal have still had more total usage overall. And there's
 probably more people (particularly rank-and-file programmers) who have
 heard
 of Delphi and Pascal. So that, too, just gets back to whatever their
 definition of "popularity" is.

Pascal died 20 years ago. C++ utterly routed it. Delphi about 10 years ago when Borland sank.

Well, I've just finished one project written with Delphi 2007. It was a component that should work on Delphi 2010. And there's also Delphi XE (aka 2011) and Delphi Prism for .NET. Not that I like to write in it.
Apr 11 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de> writes:
bearophile wrote:
 Andrej Mitrovic:
 
 I was browsing through that D filter on google, and found this:
 http://theinf2.informatik.uni-jena.de/For+Students/Lectures/D+Programming.html
 
 This must be the second school to teach D that I know of, after I've
 heard about Utah Valley University. It looks like D is catching up!

From my experience teaching is _much_ better when it's bidirectional. This means that I'd encourage those teachers to collect some statistics, anecdotes, student comments and everything else potentially useful about D, to later feed back that information to this newsgroups and to Walter. Do you know the name or email address of those teachers?

It's my PhD advisor and me. I'm looking forward to the seminar. Let's see how it goes. Especially I'm interested in the students feedback. What do they find difficult? What do they find easy?
 Insights from students are for example invaluable to find the harder
 to understand parts of the D language, or the most bug-prone for
 newbies, or the harder to teach. D2 language design is mostly done,
 but many design details can be improved still thanks to
 students/teachers feedback.

Andrei has done a great job with his book. Even though it is not an introductory text to programming. It is not meant to be that. But I suppose there are some pitfalls or less obvious things that will come up during the seminar. Jens
Apr 11 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
Am 11.04.2011, 10:52 Uhr, schrieb Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de>:
 http://theinf2.informatik.uni-jena.de/For+Students/Lectures/D+Programming.html

see how it goes. Especially I'm interested in the students feedback. What do they find difficult? What do they find easy?

Nice idea. We need something like that in Ilmenau too ;)
Apr 11 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
I highly doubt that Delphi can be considered dead.

If Embarcadero/Borland/Codegear is managing to sell a commercial IDE,
that's already more than D has to offer (commercially speaking). It
has some great GUI features, and there's also that one popular
commercial application built with Delphi - FL Studio. And who hasn't
heard of that? Very few people.

So if you were to compare that to D, you could say D is dead. But it's
not, and neither is Delphi or Pascal. I'd say Pascal/Delphi have a
solid ground, but D has rapid growth. E.g. neither delphi or pascal
are gaining grounds, compared to D (that's just my opinion).
Apr 11 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Caligo <iteronvexor gmail.com> writes:
Another good metric is stackoverflow.com

There are currently 301 D questions.
Apr 12 2011
prev sibling parent Emil Madsen <sovende gmail.com> writes:
--001636ed678274bdc204a0cd3a23
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 11 April 2011 03:22, Andrei Alexandrescu
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>wrote:

 I wonder how accurate this language popularity index is.

 Andrei

I wouldn't belive it; 1<http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%2B%22C%2B%2B%20programming%22> result on youtube? - atleast according to the table, but I'm getting 1410, thats 1409 new youtube movies about C++ in 13days ;) - I guess C++ is on its way back! -- // Yours sincerely // Emil 'Skeen' Madsen --001636ed678274bdc204a0cd3a23 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 April 2011 03:22, Andrei Alexandrescu <spa= n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org">SeeWebsi= teForEmail erdani.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e= x;"> I wonder how accurate this language popularity index is.<br><font color=3D"= #888888"> <br> Andrei<br> </font></blockquote></div><br>I wouldn&#39;t belive it;=A0<span class=3D"Ap= ple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Tahoma, Arial; -webkit-borde= r-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; font-size:= medium; "><a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/results?sear= ch_query=3D%2B%22C%2B%2B%20programming%22">1</a>=A0result on youtube?</span=
<div>

al; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing= : 2px; font-size: medium; ">- atleast according to the table, but I&#39;m g= etting 1410, thats 1409 new youtube movies about C++ in 13days ;)</span></d= iv> <div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Tahoma= , Arial; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-sp= acing: 2px; font-size: medium; ">- I guess C++ is on its way back!</span><d= iv> <br>-- <br>// Yours sincerely<br>// Emil &#39;Skeen&#39; Madsen<br> </div></div> --001636ed678274bdc204a0cd3a23--
Apr 13 2011