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digitalmars.D.announce - Walter charms the audience at Sioux

reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
Voted hot!

http://sioux.eu/en/hot-or-not/d-programming-language.html

Andrei
Aug 23 2012
next sibling parent reply "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu:


 http://sioux.eu/en/hot-or-not/d-programming-language.html



At page 90 of the slides there is:


 Coming Soon
...
 Classic example: NonNull!(T)



We'll use it to see if it's good enough (and if for it some 
shorter syntax sugar is needed).



 Validated data: Validated!(T)



What's this?

Maybe someone of the D community is willing to prettify Walter 
slides before he does the talks. I think this will help give D 
endavour and community a bit more professional/refined look.

Bye,
bearophile
Aug 23 2012
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 8/23/2012 2:54 PM, bearophile wrote:

 Maybe someone of the D community is willing to prettify Walter slides before he
 does the talks. I think this will help give D endavour and community a bit more
 professional/refined look.



I like the plain jane look, and do not think it is unprofessional.
Aug 23 2012
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 8/24/12 12:35 AM, bearophile wrote:

 Walter Bright:


 I like the plain jane look, and do not think it is unprofessional.



 A part of me thinks the outlook of those slides is not
 "shiny-professional", just compare your slides with the first and last
 slides in that Pdf probably added by the conference organizers, with
 refined graphics, etc:
 http://sioux.eu/en/hot-or-not/downloads/doc_download/80-walter-bright-d-programming-language.html



Slide design is greatly variable across speakers, and is poorly 
correlated with the quality of the talk. That being said, Walter's 
slides are well done and (knowing the talk) very adequate for supporting 
the points made. I wouldn't change a thing.


 On the other hand I like that plain look myself :-) I love simple
 readable things, my slides look equally plain and simple.



I'd initially let it go, but now that you insist - then why would you 
write this?


 Maybe someone of the D community is willing to prettify Walter slides
 before he does the talks. I think this will help give D endavour and
 community a bit more professional/refined look.



In one shot you gratuitously belittle quality work and arrogate to 
yourself authority in judging it. I honestly don't understand why you'd 
post that (and, unfortunately, many like it), unless your express 
purpose is to piss people off.


Andrei
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:45:03 -0400
Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:


 Voted hot!
 
 http://sioux.eu/en/hot-or-not/d-programming-language.html
 
 Andrei



That's an excellent set of slides. It'll be great to pass along
next time I want to point out to someone what's great about D.
Aug 23 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "F i L" <witte2008 gmail.com> writes:
I thought default was  safe, but the slides say it's  system... 
is that a typo or have I been mistaken this entire time?
Aug 23 2012
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 8/23/12 9:27 PM, F i L wrote:

 Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 You've been mistaken.  system is the default.

 If we could go back in time and redo things, we'd probably do stuff
 like make
 pure and  safe the default, but it's far too late now.



 Okay, thanks for the info. I have a feeling that D3 will truly be the
 "golden age" and point of mass adoption of the D programming language.



If it's not D2, it'll never be.

Andrei
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jonathan M Davis" <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Friday, August 24, 2012 02:40:51 F i L wrote:

 I thought default was  safe, but the slides say it's  system...
 is that a typo or have I been mistaken this entire time?



You've been mistaken.  system is the default.

If we could go back in time and redo things, we'd probably do stuff like make 
pure and  safe the default, but it's far too late now.

- Jonathan M Davis
Aug 23 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "F i L" <witte2008 gmail.com> writes:
Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 You've been mistaken.  system is the default.

 If we could go back in time and redo things, we'd probably do 
 stuff like make
 pure and  safe the default, but it's far too late now.



Okay, thanks for the info. I have a feeling that D3 will truly be 
the "golden age" and point of mass adoption of the D programming 
language.
Aug 23 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jonathan M Davis" <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Friday, August 24, 2012 03:27:47 F i L wrote:

 Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 You've been mistaken.  system is the default.
 
 If we could go back in time and redo things, we'd probably do
 stuff like make
 pure and  safe the default, but it's far too late now.



 Okay, thanks for the info. I have a feeling that D3 will truly be
 the "golden age" and point of mass adoption of the D programming
 language.



Well, since it'll be years before we even consider creating D3, we're in 
trouble if we need D3 for D to be successful. D2 isn't perfect, but it's still 
a very solid language and outshines more entrenched languages on a number of 
levels. I'd expect that its lack of adoption is primarily a marketing issue.

- Jonathan M Davis
Aug 23 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Jonathan M Davis:


 I'd expect that its lack of adoption is primarily a marketing 
 issue.



For people to adopt D there are factors more important than 
marketing: lack of tools, vendors support, libraries, schools and 
courses, the presence of competing languages, people that don't 
want to learn another language, unwillingness in betting in a 
language created by a little group of people, frequency of bugs 
in D/compiler, unfinished feel of some part of the language, lack 
of lot of stuff in Phobos, etc.

Bye,
bearophile
Aug 23 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "F i L" <witte2008 gmail.com> writes:
Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 Well, since it'll be years before we even consider creating D3, 
 we're in
 trouble if we need D3 for D to be successful. D2 isn't perfect, 
 but it's still
 a very solid language and outshines more entrenched languages 
 on a number of
 levels. I'd expect that its lack of adoption is primarily a 
 marketing issue.



I think you misunderstand my intent. D2 will carry D to far 
reaches, and is a very usable, and now stable language; and I 
know D3 won't come for years. That said, there are language 
issues that, as you put, simply can't be addressed in D2 because 
they're not worth the effort required to fix them. I only meant 
that I think once D3 does come around, and it's *perfect*, that 
others simply wont be able to resist it and it will truly be 
adopted on a mass scale.
Aug 23 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 8/23/2012 1:45 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 Voted hot!

 http://sioux.eu/en/hot-or-not/d-programming-language.html



They charmed me, too. I have rarely been treated so nicely as I was by the
folks 
at Sioux who put on the show, and the wonderful people who attended.
Aug 23 2012
next sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-08-24 06:11, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 8/23/2012 1:45 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 Voted hot!

 http://sioux.eu/en/hot-or-not/d-programming-language.html



 They charmed me, too. I have rarely been treated so nicely as I was by
 the folks at Sioux who put on the show, and the wonderful people who
 attended.



Will there be a video posted?

-- 
/Jacob Carlborg
Aug 23 2012
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 8/23/2012 11:34 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 Will there be a video posted?



If not by now, probably not.
Aug 23 2012
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 8/24/2012 12:00 AM, Bernard Helyer wrote:

 On Friday, 24 August 2012 at 06:46:10 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 8/23/2012 11:34 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 Will there be a video posted?



 If not by now, probably not.



 Was the talk mostly the same as the other one you gave
 with the same slides? (forget where that was)



Yes.
Aug 24 2012
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 8/24/12 4:09 AM, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 8/24/2012 12:00 AM, Bernard Helyer wrote:

 On Friday, 24 August 2012 at 06:46:10 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 8/23/2012 11:34 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 Will there be a video posted?



 If not by now, probably not.



 Was the talk mostly the same as the other one you gave
 with the same slides? (forget where that was)



 Yes.



Slides look good, I'm sure the talk went great, loved the shirt. What 
didn't float the boat of those two fellas in the front row on slide 94?

Andrei
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling parent "Bernard Helyer" <b.helyer gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 24 August 2012 at 06:46:10 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 8/23/2012 11:34 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 Will there be a video posted?



 If not by now, probably not.



Was the talk mostly the same as the other one you gave
with the same slides? (forget where that was)
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Walter Bright:


 I like the plain jane look, and do not think it is 
 unprofessional.



A part of me thinks the outlook of those slides is not 
"shiny-professional", just compare your slides with the first and 
last slides in that Pdf probably added by the conference 
organizers, with refined graphics, etc:
http://sioux.eu/en/hot-or-not/downloads/doc_download/80-walter-bright-d-programming-language.html

On the other hand I like that plain look myself :-) I love simple 
readable things, my slides look equally plain and simple.

Bye,
bearophile
Aug 23 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Peter Alexander" <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 24 August 2012 at 02:23:04 UTC, F i L wrote:

 Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 Well, since it'll be years before we even consider creating 
 D3, we're in
 trouble if we need D3 for D to be successful. D2 isn't 
 perfect, but it's still
 a very solid language and outshines more entrenched languages 
 on a number of
 levels. I'd expect that its lack of adoption is primarily a 
 marketing issue.



 I think you misunderstand my intent. D2 will carry D to far 
 reaches, and is a very usable, and now stable language; and I 
 know D3 won't come for years. That said, there are language 
 issues that, as you put, simply can't be addressed in D2 
 because they're not worth the effort required to fix them. I 
 only meant that I think once D3 does come around, and it's 
 *perfect*, that others simply wont be able to resist it and it 
 will truly be adopted on a mass scale.



There's no such thing as a perfect language.
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:
Le 23/08/2012 22:45, Andrei Alexandrescu a écrit :

 Voted hot!

 http://sioux.eu/en/hot-or-not/d-programming-language.html

 Andrei



Should I mention that thing about segfault ?
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "F i L" <witte2008 gmail.com> writes:
Peter Alexander wrote:

 There's no such thing as a perfect language.



Note the asterisks.
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Simen Kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:
On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 13:52:04 +0200, F i L <witte2008 gmail.com> wrote:


 Peter Alexander wrote:

 There's no such thing as a perfect language.



 Note the asterisks.



What I'm used to, *this* means bold. *Perfect* thus means absolutely
perfect.

Perfect*, on the other hand, would mean either 'more information below'
or 'piece of crap', depending on whether it's in a technical text or an ad.

-- 
Simen
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> writes:
On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 13:44:55 +0100, Simen Kjaeraas  
<simen.kjaras gmail.com> wrote:


 On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 13:52:04 +0200, F i L <witte2008 gmail.com> wrote:


 Peter Alexander wrote:

 There's no such thing as a perfect language.



 Note the asterisks.



 What I'm used to, *this* means bold. *Perfect* thus means absolutely
 perfect.

 Perfect*, on the other hand, would mean either 'more information below'
 or 'piece of crap', depending on whether it's in a technical text or an  
 ad.



And "perfect" might mean "depends who you ask" :p

R

-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:49:02 +0200
"Peter Alexander" <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> wrote:

 
 There's no such thing as a perfect language.



Well of course there isn't: D3 isn't made yet! ;)
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Minas Mina" <minas_mina1990 hotmail.co.uk> writes:
Really nice (and fun) presentation! I wish I could've been there!

And what's the deal with D3(?) guys?
Aren't you satisfied with D2? I think it rox baby!!
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 23:18:45 +0200
"Minas Mina" <minas_mina1990 hotmail.co.uk> wrote:


 Really nice (and fun) presentation! I wish I could've been there!
 
 And what's the deal with D3(?) guys?



Purely hypothetical talk right now. No real plans for a D3 ATM.


 Aren't you satisfied with D2?



One can never be satisfied :)


 I think it rox baby!!
 



Indeed it does!
Aug 24 2012
prev sibling parent "F i L" <witte2008 gmail.com> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 On 8/23/12 9:27 PM, F i L wrote:

 Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 You've been mistaken.  system is the default.

 If we could go back in time and redo things, we'd probably do 
 stuff
 like make
 pure and  safe the default, but it's far too late now.



 Okay, thanks for the info. I have a feeling that D3 will truly 
 be the
 "golden age" and point of mass adoption of the D programming 
 language.



 If it's not D2, it'll never be.



I'm not sure what so hard to understand about the term "golden 
age" but I get the impression people here think I was dishing out 
an insult to D2. I'm not. I'm just being realistic. Johnathan 
mentions that D3 won't even be considered for years and that's 
the amount of time I think it'll take before D2 fixes all it's 
problems keeping it from becoming widely adopted: shared objects, 
IDE tools, ARM (Android/iOS), third party libraries, etc.. thus 
me saying that D3 will bring the _golden age_ of D. Meaning it's 
the age where all the university and programming jobs are focused 
on D.

I'm not being pessimistic here, I'm being optimistic.
Aug 24 2012