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digitalmars.D.announce - Tango 0.99.9 Kai released

reply Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Dear D community

A new version of Tango is now available for download, named after Kai for 
his several contributions in this cycle. The main focus of this release has 
been final cleanup and a lot of bugfixing for the upcoming v1.0 package.

This release has seen 356 tickets resolved, 932 commits, and is current with 
the latest DMD compiler (v1.056). Some new features include:

 * Safe weak references
 * Arguments module
 * RIPE-MD128, RIPE-MD160 and Whirlpool digests by Kai
 * Vector and Stack containers can now be grown
 * !HomeFolder module


For a complete list of changes please see 
http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/0_99_9_Changelog . We welcome all 
feedback and are always looking for new participants, so feel free to 
contact us via the page linked below. 

Downloads and their install instructions are found at 
http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoDmd for DMD or 
http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoLdc for LDC. 

Contact:
Need support, or wish to help? Please see 
http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/Contact .

Home: 
The Tango homepage is at http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango.

Signed,

The Tango Team
Feb 09 2010
next sibling parent Moritz Warning <moritzwarning web.de> writes:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:26:06 +0100, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Dear D community
 
 A new version of Tango is now available for download, named after Kai
 for his several contributions in this cycle. The main focus of this
 release has been final cleanup and a lot of bugfixing for the upcoming
 v1.0 package.
 
 This release has seen 356 tickets resolved, 932 commits, and is current
 with the latest DMD compiler (v1.056). Some new features include:
 
  * Safe weak references
  * Arguments module
  * RIPE-MD128, RIPE-MD160 and Whirlpool digests by Kai * Vector and
  Stack containers can now be grown * !HomeFolder module
 
 
 For a complete list of changes please see
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/0_99_9_Changelog . We welcome
 all feedback and are always looking for new participants, so feel free
 to contact us via the page linked below.
 
 Downloads and their install instructions are found at
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoDmd for DMD
 or http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoLdc for
 LDC.
 
 Contact:
 Need support, or wish to help? Please see
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/Contact .
 
 Home:
 The Tango homepage is at http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango.
 
 Signed,
 
 The Tango Team

Congratulations!
Feb 09 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Lars Ivar Igesund" <larsivar igesund.net> wrote in message 
news:hksquf$q3h$1 digitalmars.com...
 Dear D community

 A new version of Tango is now available for download,

Hooray! It's 0.99.9 at last!
Feb 09 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
What's the rationale behind a release version number that asymptotically
approaches the 1.0 value?
After V.0.99 there is V. 0.100, then V.0.101, etc. Version numbers have dots,
but those dots are not like the real number dots :-)

Bye Tango team,
bearophile
Feb 09 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> wrote in message 
news:hksv3i$117l$1 digitalmars.com...
 What's the rationale behind a release version number that asymptotically 
 approaches the 1.0 value?
 After V.0.99 there is V. 0.100, then V.0.101, etc. Version numbers have 
 dots, but those dots are not like the real number dots :-)

How do you ever get to 1.0 then?
Feb 09 2010
parent reply bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky:
 How do you ever get to 1.0 then? 

Is that a serious question? The answer: for example at release 0.275.1, that is when you want, when you think the software is good enough to be called 1.0. Bye, bearophile
Feb 10 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> wrote in message 
news:hktvfk$1i5t$1 digitalmars.com...
 Nick Sabalausky:
 How do you ever get to 1.0 then?

Is that a serious question? The answer: for example at release 0.275.1, that is when you want, when you think the software is good enough to be called 1.0.

But the tango team is ready for the next release to be 1.0. Should they wait for 0.100 or 0.101 or something before going to 1.0?
Feb 10 2010
parent reply "Lars T. Kyllingstad" <public kyllingen.NOSPAMnet> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> wrote in message 
 news:hktvfk$1i5t$1 digitalmars.com...
 Nick Sabalausky:
 How do you ever get to 1.0 then?

The answer: for example at release 0.275.1, that is when you want, when you think the software is good enough to be called 1.0.

But the tango team is ready for the next release to be 1.0. Should they wait for 0.100 or 0.101 or something before going to 1.0?

I think what he means is this: If you look at the Tango release history, the version numbers are ... 0.7 0.8 0.9 0.95 0.96 0.97 0.98 0.99 0.99.1 ... 0.99.9 and so on, asymptotically approaching 1.0, instead of the (arguably) more common 0.1 0.2 ... 0.9 0.10 0.11 ... 0.99 0.100 0.101 ... 0.whatever 1.0 The question was why they chose the scheme they did, and there really is no need for any answer other than "because they felt like it". Fun fact: TeX version numbers asymptotically approach pi, while METAFONT version numbers approach e. :) -Lars
Feb 10 2010
parent Patrick Byrne <pbyrne frontier.co.uk> writes:
On 10/02/2010 10:05, Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> wrote in message
 news:hktvfk$1i5t$1 digitalmars.com...
 Nick Sabalausky:
 How do you ever get to 1.0 then?

The answer: for example at release 0.275.1, that is when you want, when you think the software is good enough to be called 1.0.



 The question was why they chose the scheme they did, and there really is
 no need for any answer other than "because they felt like it".

 Fun fact: TeX version numbers asymptotically approach pi, while METAFONT
 version numbers approach e. :)

 -Lars

My experience of finishing large software projects is that version numbering which asymptotically approaches 1.0 is a good mapping to the way that a project gets completed!
Feb 10 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply zsxxsz <zhengshuxin hexun.com> writes:
== Quote from Lars Ivar Igesund (larsivar igesund.net)'s article
 Dear D community
 A new version of Tango is now available for download, named after Kai for
 his several contributions in this cycle. The main focus of this release has
 been final cleanup and a lot of bugfixing for the upcoming v1.0 package.
 This release has seen 356 tickets resolved, 932 commits, and is current with
 the latest DMD compiler (v1.056). Some new features include:
  * Safe weak references
  * Arguments module
  * RIPE-MD128, RIPE-MD160 and Whirlpool digests by Kai
  * Vector and Stack containers can now be grown
  * !HomeFolder module
 For a complete list of changes please see
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/0_99_9_Changelog . We welcome all
 feedback and are always looking for new participants, so feel free to
 contact us via the page linked below.
 Downloads and their install instructions are found at
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoDmd for DMD or
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoLdc for LDC.
 Contact:
 Need support, or wish to help? Please see
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/Contact .
 Home:
 The Tango homepage is at http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango.
 Signed,
 The Tango Team

Great, thanks very much. When can we see the tango for D2.0?
Feb 09 2010
parent Extrawurst <spam extrawurst.org> writes:
Yeah seriously is it intended to support D2.0 finally when TDPL is going 
to come out and make a big buzz about D ? If there is any chance 
boosting D's popularity it is then. I encourage all library writers to 
jump the train and try to support D2.0 until then.


On 10.02.2010 02:52, zsxxsz wrote:
 Great, thanks very much. When can we see the tango for D2.0?

Feb 10 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent bobef <aasd.aasdasd.asd.ad.ad.as.d.a asdasdas.das.da.d.ad.sa.d> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund Wrote:

 
 Signed,
 
 The Tango Team

Thanks for the hard work. I'm using Tango almost daily and it has really evolved over the years. IMO just as D excels other languages Tango excels phobos or even more. In this sense Tango is phobos' D lol (no offense but Tango rocks:)
Feb 10 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Godot <gd tramp.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund Wrote:

 Dear D community
 
 A new version of Tango is now available for download, named after Kai for 
 his several contributions in this cycle. The main focus of this release has 
 been final cleanup and a lot of bugfixing for the upcoming v1.0 package.
 
 This release has seen 356 tickets resolved, 932 commits, and is current with 
 the latest DMD compiler (v1.056). Some new features include:
 
  * Safe weak references
  * Arguments module
  * RIPE-MD128, RIPE-MD160 and Whirlpool digests by Kai
  * Vector and Stack containers can now be grown
  * !HomeFolder module
 
 
 For a complete list of changes please see 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/0_99_9_Changelog . We welcome all 
 feedback and are always looking for new participants, so feel free to 
 contact us via the page linked below. 
 
 Downloads and their install instructions are found at 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoDmd for DMD or 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoLdc for LDC. 
 
 Contact:
 Need support, or wish to help? Please see 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/Contact .
 
 Home: 
 The Tango homepage is at http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango.
 
 Signed,
 
 The Tango Team

About Time... ;-) Congrats on some good work - can't wait for v1.00
Feb 10 2010
parent #ponce <nospam nospam.com> writes:
Congratulations ! I wasz waiting 1.056 compatibility to switch ;).
Feb 10 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply strt <strt spam.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund Wrote:

 Dear D community
 
 A new version of Tango is now available for download, named after Kai for 
 his several contributions in this cycle. The main focus of this release has 
 been final cleanup and a lot of bugfixing for the upcoming v1.0 package.

How is the whole Tango/Phobos thing going along? I'd wish I could build all projects on dsource without having to install a different compiler package/change path :) D2 maybe? Installing Tango went bad for me in the past (dsss) and as my projects just work with the default dmd install I never really got into reading the whole tango spec and thus don't really know what I am missing out on, although I suspect the worst :)
Feb 10 2010
next sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"strt" <strt spam.com> wrote in message 
news:hku9pr$2cqe$1 digitalmars.com...
 Lars Ivar Igesund Wrote:

 Dear D community

 A new version of Tango is now available for download, named after Kai for
 his several contributions in this cycle. The main focus of this release 
 has
 been final cleanup and a lot of bugfixing for the upcoming v1.0 package.

How is the whole Tango/Phobos thing going along? I'd wish I could build all projects on dsource without having to install a different compiler package/change path :) D2 maybe?

Once Tango is ported to D2, then Tango/Phobos should get along just fine (as long as you use D2). That's largely what druntime was all about.
 Installing Tango went bad for me in the past (dsss) and as my projects 
 just work with the default dmd install I never really got into reading the 
 whole tango spec and thus don't really know what I am missing out on, 
 although I suspect the worst :)

If you grab the Tango+DMD bundle from the Tango site, then it's exactly the same as installing DMD/Phobos: Just unzip, set path, and run. Installing Tango overtop an existing DMD/Phobos can be tricky (at least from what I recall, been a long time since I attempted it), but the Tango+DMD bundles are easy and upgrading the DMD from an existing Tango+DMD bundle installation is fairly easy too.
Feb 10 2010
parent reply strtr <strt spam.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 
 Once Tango is ported to D2, then Tango/Phobos should get along just fine (as 
 long as you use D2). That's largely what druntime was all about.

 
 If you grab the Tango+DMD bundle from the Tango site, then it's exactly the 
 same as installing DMD/Phobos: Just unzip, set path, and run.

 
 Installing Tango overtop an existing DMD/Phobos can be tricky (at least from 
 what I recall, been a long time since I attempted it), but the Tango+DMD 
 bundles are easy and upgrading the DMD from an existing Tango+DMD bundle 
 installation is fairly easy too.

My monthly candy :D
Feb 10 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"strtr" <strt spam.com> wrote in message 
news:hkuc5h$2hjc$1 digitalmars.com...
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 If you grab the Tango+DMD bundle from the Tango site, then it's exactly 
 the
 same as installing DMD/Phobos: Just unzip, set path, and run.

So I shouldn't need to change anything at all in my project? All Phobos calls will by default be handled correctly? That's nice.

At the moment, no. Currently, Tango is D1-only, but druntime (the thing that is supposed to allow Tango and Phobos to play nice together on a single installation) is D2-only. So once Tango is ported to D2, I'd imagine there will probably be a Tango+DMD2 bundle that will include phobos and all your tango *and* phobos calls should work fine. But on D1, a DMD installation is either a tango one or a phobos one (unless you use some ugly hacks). This is what I'd recommend for D1. This is pretty much the way I do it and I find it very easy: 1. Grab a Phobos-based DMD from digitalmars.com and unzip it to something like "dmd-phobos". 2. Grab a Tango+DMD bundle from the Tango site and unzip it to something like "dmd-tango". 3. Set your path to "dmd/bin" (Yes, "dmd", not "dmd-phobos" or "dmd-tango", just "dmd"). 4. Windows: Create a batch script "Switch to DMD Phobos.bat" that deletes the "dmd" directory tree and then copies "dmd-phobos" to "dmd". Do the same for Tango, and then run either of those when you want to switch. Ex (Helpful because I find the appropriate rmdir and xcopy switches to be incredibly hard to remember) ---------------------- echo off echo Switching to Tango... echo Removing old dmd... rmdir /S /Q dmd echo Copying new dmd... xcopy dmd-tango dmd /E /C /I /Q /H /K /Y echo Done! ---------------------- 4. Unix: Same as windows but make "dmd" a symlink to "dmd-phobos"/"dmd-tango" instead of actually copying (I *think* that should work. If not, you can still just copy it like on Windows). And obviously use sh or bash or something instead of batch. Not sure offhand of the cmd-line to do that, but should be easy to google if you don't already know anyway.
Feb 10 2010
next sibling parent reply div0 <div0 users.sourceforge.net> writes:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Nick Sabalausky wrote:
<snip>

 4. Windows: Create a batch script "Switch to DMD Phobos.bat" that deletes 
 the "dmd" directory tree and then copies "dmd-phobos" to "dmd". Do the same 
 for Tango, and then run either of those when you want to switch.
 

Or use junction instead. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896768.aspx Rather handy. - -- My enormous talent is exceeded only by my outrageous laziness. http://www.ssTk.co.uk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iD8DBQFLcx74T9LetA9XoXwRAo43AJ41RfDaWYRb4ullu4AULwzOUGKLnwCfUXuO 0YIuA73VnUPB58ez1rG/Pew= =iCVZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Feb 10 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"div0" <div0 users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message 
news:hkv6tn$17rs$1 digitalmars.com...
 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
 Hash: SHA1

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 <snip>

 4. Windows: Create a batch script "Switch to DMD Phobos.bat" that deletes
 the "dmd" directory tree and then copies "dmd-phobos" to "dmd". Do the 
 same
 for Tango, and then run either of those when you want to switch.

Or use junction instead. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896768.aspx Rather handy.

That's awesome. Thanks. I had no idea windows could do that, and I was just thinking even the other day that I wished that it could. Too bad it's only for directories, not files, but still, that should be pretty nice to have.
Feb 10 2010
parent reply Nathan Tuggy <bugzilla nathan.tuggycomputer.com> writes:
On 2010-02-10 14:18, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "div0"<div0 users.sourceforge.net>  wrote in message
 news:hkv6tn$17rs$1 digitalmars.com...
 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
 Hash: SHA1

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 <snip>

 4. Windows: Create a batch script "Switch to DMD Phobos.bat" that deletes
 the "dmd" directory tree and then copies "dmd-phobos" to "dmd". Do the
 same
 for Tango, and then run either of those when you want to switch.

Or use junction instead. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896768.aspx Rather handy.

That's awesome. Thanks. I had no idea windows could do that, and I was just thinking even the other day that I wished that it could. Too bad it's only for directories, not files, but still, that should be pretty nice to have.

Files? You want it for files too? Have I got a command for you: fsutil hardlink create <new filename> <existing filename> (<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc788097%28WS.10%29.aspx>) You'll need administrator privileges to run it (because most of its other functionality is very low-level, journaling and MFT-sizing and stuff like that), but it looks like it works on XP and up (2000 doesn't appear to support it, but I can't tell for sure). And, of course, it only works on NTFS partitions, but that should be a given.
Feb 10 2010
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Nathan Tuggy" <bugzilla nathan.tuggycomputer.com> wrote in message 
news:hkveh8$1nu6$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 2010-02-10 14:18, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "div0"<div0 users.sourceforge.net>  wrote in message
 news:hkv6tn$17rs$1 digitalmars.com...
 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
 Hash: SHA1

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 <snip>

 4. Windows: Create a batch script "Switch to DMD Phobos.bat" that 
 deletes
 the "dmd" directory tree and then copies "dmd-phobos" to "dmd". Do the
 same
 for Tango, and then run either of those when you want to switch.

Or use junction instead. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896768.aspx Rather handy.

That's awesome. Thanks. I had no idea windows could do that, and I was just thinking even the other day that I wished that it could. Too bad it's only for directories, not files, but still, that should be pretty nice to have.

Files? You want it for files too? Have I got a command for you: fsutil hardlink create <new filename> <existing filename> (<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc788097%28WS.10%29.aspx>) You'll need administrator privileges to run it (because most of its other functionality is very low-level, journaling and MFT-sizing and stuff like that), but it looks like it works on XP and up (2000 doesn't appear to support it, but I can't tell for sure). And, of course, it only works on NTFS partitions, but that should be a given.

AIUI, that's still a little bit different from a symlink. Unix has a concept of a hardlink too (I think that's what they call it), so I'm assuming that's more like what this is. Still, good to know that it's there. BTW, after googling to check that "hardlink" is the term Unix uses for the other symlink-ish thing it has, I just stumbled across this: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/using-symlinks-in-windows-vista/ Symlinks that "don't work quite as well as they could" on Vista and up. (Not much good for me though, as I'm on XP).
Feb 10 2010
prev sibling parent reply Yigal Chripun <yigal100 gmail.com> writes:
On 11/02/2010 01:12, Nathan Tuggy wrote:
 On 2010-02-10 14:18, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "div0"<div0 users.sourceforge.net> wrote in message
 news:hkv6tn$17rs$1 digitalmars.com...
 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
 Hash: SHA1

 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 <snip>

 4. Windows: Create a batch script "Switch to DMD Phobos.bat" that
 deletes
 the "dmd" directory tree and then copies "dmd-phobos" to "dmd". Do the
 same
 for Tango, and then run either of those when you want to switch.

Or use junction instead. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896768.aspx Rather handy.

That's awesome. Thanks. I had no idea windows could do that, and I was just thinking even the other day that I wished that it could. Too bad it's only for directories, not files, but still, that should be pretty nice to have.

Files? You want it for files too? Have I got a command for you: fsutil hardlink create <new filename> <existing filename> (<http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc788097%28WS.10%29.aspx>) You'll need administrator privileges to run it (because most of its other functionality is very low-level, journaling and MFT-sizing and stuff like that), but it looks like it works on XP and up (2000 doesn't appear to support it, but I can't tell for sure). And, of course, it only works on NTFS partitions, but that should be a given.

Starting with Vista, MS exposed the ability to have symlinks and hardlinks on windows, just run "help mklink" in a cmd.exe. In reality NTFS supported this for a long time now (IIRC, since circa 2000) but the problem is that the windows shell/cmd.exe is always late at providing access to new NTFS features - they're always late by at least one version of windows so this is why you can't do that on XP even though the NTFS version that comes with XP does support it.
Feb 11 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Yigal Chripun" <yigal100 gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:hl204m$m8g$1 digitalmars.com...
 Starting with Vista, MS exposed the ability to have symlinks and hardlinks 
 on windows, just run "help mklink" in a cmd.exe.

 In reality NTFS supported this for a long time now (IIRC, since circa 
 2000) but the problem is that the windows shell/cmd.exe is always late at 
 providing access to new NTFS features - they're always late by at least 
 one version of windows so this is why you can't do that on XP even though 
 the NTFS version that comes with XP does support it.

Oh, so at least in theory, symlinks should still be possible on 2k/XP given a third-party tool to manage them and avoidance of using them on the command-line and in batch files?
Feb 11 2010
parent reply Daniel Keep <daniel.keep.lists gmail.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "Yigal Chripun" <yigal100 gmail.com> wrote in message 
 news:hl204m$m8g$1 digitalmars.com...
 Starting with Vista, MS exposed the ability to have symlinks and hardlinks 
 on windows, just run "help mklink" in a cmd.exe.

 In reality NTFS supported this for a long time now (IIRC, since circa 
 2000) but the problem is that the windows shell/cmd.exe is always late at 
 providing access to new NTFS features - they're always late by at least 
 one version of windows so this is why you can't do that on XP even though 
 the NTFS version that comes with XP does support it.

Oh, so at least in theory, symlinks should still be possible on 2k/XP given a third-party tool to manage them and avoidance of using them on the command-line and in batch files?

Given that SysInternals had a tool for doing hard links on 2000+, but no tool for doing symlinks, I doubt it. I recall reading something about how symlinks were new to Vista specifically; not simply a tool to make them, but something changed in NTFS or the system's support for it.
Feb 11 2010
parent reply Yigal Chripun <yigal100 gmail.com> writes:
On 12/02/2010 03:36, Daniel Keep wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "Yigal Chripun"<yigal100 gmail.com>  wrote in message
 news:hl204m$m8g$1 digitalmars.com...
 Starting with Vista, MS exposed the ability to have symlinks and hardlinks
 on windows, just run "help mklink" in a cmd.exe.

 In reality NTFS supported this for a long time now (IIRC, since circa
 2000) but the problem is that the windows shell/cmd.exe is always late at
 providing access to new NTFS features - they're always late by at least
 one version of windows so this is why you can't do that on XP even though
 the NTFS version that comes with XP does support it.

Oh, so at least in theory, symlinks should still be possible on 2k/XP given a third-party tool to manage them and avoidance of using them on the command-line and in batch files?

Given that SysInternals had a tool for doing hard links on 2000+, but no tool for doing symlinks, I doubt it. I recall reading something about how symlinks were new to Vista specifically; not simply a tool to make them, but something changed in NTFS or the system's support for it.

http://homepage1.nifty.com/emk/symlink.html I think this provides the ability to have symlinks on windows XP. I'm not 100% sure since it's in Japanese.
Feb 12 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Yigal Chripun" <yigal100 gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:hl33en$2p6d$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 12/02/2010 03:36, Daniel Keep wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "Yigal Chripun"<yigal100 gmail.com>  wrote in message
 news:hl204m$m8g$1 digitalmars.com...
 Starting with Vista, MS exposed the ability to have symlinks and 
 hardlinks
 on windows, just run "help mklink" in a cmd.exe.

 In reality NTFS supported this for a long time now (IIRC, since circa
 2000) but the problem is that the windows shell/cmd.exe is always late 
 at
 providing access to new NTFS features - they're always late by at least
 one version of windows so this is why you can't do that on XP even 
 though
 the NTFS version that comes with XP does support it.

Oh, so at least in theory, symlinks should still be possible on 2k/XP given a third-party tool to manage them and avoidance of using them on the command-line and in batch files?

Given that SysInternals had a tool for doing hard links on 2000+, but no tool for doing symlinks, I doubt it. I recall reading something about how symlinks were new to Vista specifically; not simply a tool to make them, but something changed in NTFS or the system's support for it.

http://homepage1.nifty.com/emk/symlink.html I think this provides the ability to have symlinks on windows XP. I'm not 100% sure since it's in Japanese.

If you run it through google translater, and (attempt to) read through the "Symbolic misconception that Windows NT/2000/XP is available in" section, it sounds like he saying that pre-vista could only do hardlinks and junctions but that some people (maybe the author?) had been inaccurately calling them "symlinks" anyway, thus causing confusion. But of course, that's assuming that the translation is accurate and that I'm actually interpreting the translation correctly.
Feb 12 2010
parent reply Yigal Chripun <yigal100 gmail.com> writes:
On 12/02/2010 11:10, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "Yigal Chripun"<yigal100 gmail.com>  wrote in message
 news:hl33en$2p6d$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 12/02/2010 03:36, Daniel Keep wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "Yigal Chripun"<yigal100 gmail.com>   wrote in message
 news:hl204m$m8g$1 digitalmars.com...
 Starting with Vista, MS exposed the ability to have symlinks and
 hardlinks
 on windows, just run "help mklink" in a cmd.exe.

 In reality NTFS supported this for a long time now (IIRC, since circa
 2000) but the problem is that the windows shell/cmd.exe is always late
 at
 providing access to new NTFS features - they're always late by at least
 one version of windows so this is why you can't do that on XP even
 though
 the NTFS version that comes with XP does support it.

Oh, so at least in theory, symlinks should still be possible on 2k/XP given a third-party tool to manage them and avoidance of using them on the command-line and in batch files?

Given that SysInternals had a tool for doing hard links on 2000+, but no tool for doing symlinks, I doubt it. I recall reading something about how symlinks were new to Vista specifically; not simply a tool to make them, but something changed in NTFS or the system's support for it.

http://homepage1.nifty.com/emk/symlink.html I think this provides the ability to have symlinks on windows XP. I'm not 100% sure since it's in Japanese.

If you run it through google translater, and (attempt to) read through the "Symbolic misconception that Windows NT/2000/XP is available in" section, it sounds like he saying that pre-vista could only do hardlinks and junctions but that some people (maybe the author?) had been inaccurately calling them "symlinks" anyway, thus causing confusion. But of course, that's assuming that the translation is accurate and that I'm actually interpreting the translation correctly.

that this utility does provide for some sort of symlinks for files. Anyway, I'm not that interested in support for a decade old and deprecated OS - I've upgraded long time ago and currently use both Vista and Win7. I'll be upgrading my Vista to Win7 as soon as I get some free time. My 4 y/o laptop that I already upgraded runs faster with Win7 compared to XP tablet edition it had before.
Feb 12 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Yigal Chripun" <yigal100 gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:hl3j9e$nlm$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 12/02/2010 11:10, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 My 4 y/o laptop that I already upgraded runs faster with Win7 compared to 
 XP tablet edition it had before.

Really? You know, I've heard a *lot* about Win7 being better than Vista, with one of those improvements being speed, but this is the first I've seen *any* direct comparison of Win7 to XP. And I have to say I'm very surprised to hear that it runs faster...Although...What kind of hardware do you have in that laptop? Probably 64-bit multi-core, I'm guessing, right? I wouldn't be totally surprised if something like that does runs faster on Win7, but with hardware like that it still would have been super-fast anyway - like getting an extra 10 horsepower out of a porche (And if all the car dealerships stop selling everything except porches...well, they'd still be porches, period). And I think I heard somewhere that Win7 required a minimum of 4GB ram (or was that just Vista?). If so, anythng less than that would certainly make Win7 run vastly slower than XP, if even at all.
Feb 12 2010
parent reply Yigal Chripun <yigal100 gmail.com> writes:
On 12/02/2010 22:20, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "Yigal Chripun"<yigal100 gmail.com>  wrote in message
 news:hl3j9e$nlm$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 12/02/2010 11:10, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 My 4 y/o laptop that I already upgraded runs faster with Win7 compared to
 XP tablet edition it had before.

Really? You know, I've heard a *lot* about Win7 being better than Vista, with one of those improvements being speed, but this is the first I've seen *any* direct comparison of Win7 to XP. And I have to say I'm very surprised to hear that it runs faster...Although...What kind of hardware do you have in that laptop? Probably 64-bit multi-core, I'm guessing, right? I wouldn't be totally surprised if something like that does runs faster on Win7, but with hardware like that it still would have been super-fast anyway - like getting an extra 10 horsepower out of a porche (And if all the car dealerships stop selling everything except porches...well, they'd still be porches, period). And I think I heard somewhere that Win7 required a minimum of 4GB ram (or was that just Vista?). If so, anythng less than that would certainly make Win7 run vastly slower than XP, if even at all.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I have a ThinkPad x41-tablet (almost 4 years old) which came with win XP tablet edition which I hated to reboot since it took 10 minutes or so. I kept putting it in hibernate instead. I wouldn't even consider putting Vista on it cause it won't boot at all with that. Since I installed a fresh Win7 copy on it it runs much better and boots almost immediately. I also read online similar reports by other owners of the X41-tablet. you can find the spec online but in short it's a pentium-m with a 1.5gb ram (I added 1gb long time ago to make the XP work better). 32bit, no multi-core. I don't like MS software in general (they do make wicked hardware though - best keyboards and mice) but this time they managed to do a decent job. Of course Ubuntu will run 5 times faster on similar hardware with only 256mb ram. Unfortunately that's not really the best option for a tablet PC.
Feb 13 2010
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Yigal Chripun" <yigal100 gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:hl6g40$85d$1 digitalmars.com...
 I have no idea what you're talking about.
 I have a ThinkPad x41-tablet (almost 4 years old) which came with win XP 
 tablet edition which I hated to reboot since it took 10 minutes or so. I 
 kept putting it in hibernate instead. I wouldn't even consider putting 
 Vista on it cause it won't boot at all with that.

 Since I installed a fresh Win7 copy on it it runs much better and boots 
 almost immediately. I also read online similar reports by other owners of 
 the X41-tablet.

 you can find the spec online but in short it's a pentium-m with a 1.5gb 
 ram (I added 1gb long time ago to make the XP work better). 32bit, no 
 multi-core.

Well, in that case, I admit I'm very surprised and quite impressed (Not totally unprecedented, though, I was quite surprised and impressed with XP back in the day). (Also from what I had been hearing from other people even as far back as four year ago, *allegedly* such "low-end" hardware couldn't be bought at the stores. Guess that was a load of hooey after all.) I've heard that for Win7, MS put a lot of effort into customizability/configurability. Do you have any idea if it can be adjusted to the look & feel of XP (with Luna turned off, obviously)? For example, open/save dialogs without all the space-wasting junk they added in Vista, have "All Programs" as popups instead of being in-set, maybe a Win Explorer location bar that stays as a normal text entry field, and the old taskbar in case I end up not liking new one. I'm very set in my ways ;) If so, then I might actually switch after all. (Otherwise I'll wait for my sister's new laptop to arrive and play around with that, and see what I think.)
 I don't like MS software in general (they do make wicked hardware though - 
 best keyboards and mice)

They do have great keyboards and mice (although I find their trackballs uncomfortable, I like my Logitech trackball much better), but I've had terrible experience with every other piece of MS hardware I've dealt with. The D-Pads on their game controllers have been garbage as far back as the old SideWinders (I think that was the name of them). My XBox 1 developed a broken trace on the motherboard that I had to fix, and some motor has been making far more noise than it should for the last few years, and a few units were known to catch fire because the power port was connected to the MB by nothing more than notably crappy solder joint. The 360's are notorious for being the #1 least reliable console in video game history (noticeable by anyone who isn't deluded by fanboyism). At one point the 360 failure rate was literally about 1 in 3, and most replacement systems were DOA ("360" may as well have referred to the support cycle). I had a Zune 1 (greatest UI on a portable music player by far, IMO, but only on the first-generation Zune, and obviously, connecting it to a computer is all kinds of hell, that's why I now use Rockbox on a Toshiba Gigabeat even though Rockbox is kinda screwy and ugly and the directional "buttons" are crap.) but as soon as I tried to use the TV-out, the IC that drives the analog-out port fried killing both the TV-out and right audio channel, and MS wouldn't do a thing about it. Although to be perfectly fair, Apple seems to be no better with hardware reliability. My brother, sister and I have all had one Mac each, and my uncle has been using them exclusively since the beginning of time. Well, my brother's, sister's and my Macs have all had hardware problems. Mine, for example, had the IDE controller go bad and take the HDD with it - only HDD I've ever had go bad on me (knock on wood...)...and it still went downhill even from there: now it won't even power up, let alone initiate the start of the boot sequence (All those boot-time keyboard combos are useless because it never actually gets that far. And keep in mind, this Mac is the *newest* computer I own.) And every time I talk to my uncle he's having a big battle with Apple about some major hardware component going bad and them not being able to get their act together about it (And yet he still swears by them, go figure). And my brother's first iPod died after two days.
 but this time they managed to do a decent job. Of course Ubuntu will run 5 
 times faster on similar hardware with only 256mb ram. Unfortunately that's 
 not really the best option for a tablet PC.

Unless I end up going to Win7 and being happier with it than I always thought I would be, I could totally imagine myself switching to Ubuntu sometime in the next few years...Well...*IF* I could ever find a file manager I actually liked (I've tried them all, I don't like any of them)...and if they ever stop treating Kubuntu like the proverbial red-headded stepchild...and if they ever decide to actually *fix* the problem where it defaults to 640x480 (or was it 800x600?) when you boot with the monitor turned off instead of constantly passng the buck on that issue ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/12301 )...and if the KDE and Gnome people ever get their acts together enough to provide users with a *common* set of configuration settings.
Feb 13 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Daniel Keep <daniel.keep.lists gmail.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "strtr" <strt spam.com> wrote in message 
 news:hkuc5h$2hjc$1 digitalmars.com...
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 If you grab the Tango+DMD bundle from the Tango site, then it's exactly 
 the
 same as installing DMD/Phobos: Just unzip, set path, and run.

calls will by default be handled correctly? That's nice.

... This is what I'd recommend for D1. This is pretty much the way I do it and I find it very easy: ...

In F:\Programs\DigitalMars, I have: - dmd-1.035-tango-0.99.8 - dmd-1.051 - dmd-1.051-tango-trunk Then there's dmdenv.cmd on the PATH: ECHO OFF IF "%1"=="" GOTO DEFAULT IF "%1"=="?" GOTO LIST set DMDVER=%1 GOTO DOIT :LIST echo List of available DMD versions: pushd F:\Programs\DigitalMars dir /ad /b dmd-* popd goto END :DEFAULT SET DMDVER=default :DOIT echo Adding dmd-%DMDVER% to PATH... PUSHD F:\Programs\DigitalMars SET PATH=%CD%\dmd-%DMDVER%\bin;%PATH% POPD :END Prior to compiling anything, I just run `dmdenv BLAH` to get the correct compiler on the path. No messing around with junctions or deleting or copying.
Feb 10 2010
prev sibling parent reply strtr <strtr spam.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 
 At the moment, no. Currently, Tango is D1-only, but druntime (the thing that 
 is supposed to allow Tango and Phobos to play nice together on a single 
 installation) is D2-only. So once Tango is ported to D2, I'd imagine there 
 will probably be a Tango+DMD2 bundle that will include phobos and all your 
 tango *and* phobos calls should work fine. But on D1, a DMD installation is 
 either a tango one or a phobos one (unless you use some ugly hacks).
 

I thought Tangobos was packaged in and would handle all Phobos calls without much hassle.
Feb 10 2010
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"strtr" <strtr spam.com> wrote in message 
news:hl03h5$2tn8$1 digitalmars.com...
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 At the moment, no. Currently, Tango is D1-only, but druntime (the thing 
 that
 is supposed to allow Tango and Phobos to play nice together on a single
 installation) is D2-only. So once Tango is ported to D2, I'd imagine 
 there
 will probably be a Tango+DMD2 bundle that will include phobos and all 
 your
 tango *and* phobos calls should work fine. But on D1, a DMD installation 
 is
 either a tango one or a phobos one (unless you use some ugly hacks).

I thought Tangobos was packaged in and would handle all Phobos calls without much hassle.

Oh, maybe. I'd completely forgotten about tangobos (and never really used it myself). You could try it.
Feb 10 2010
prev sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2/11/10 06:11, strtr wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 At the moment, no. Currently, Tango is D1-only, but druntime (the thing that
 is supposed to allow Tango and Phobos to play nice together on a single
 installation) is D2-only. So once Tango is ported to D2, I'd imagine there
 will probably be a Tango+DMD2 bundle that will include phobos and all your
 tango *and* phobos calls should work fine. But on D1, a DMD installation is
 either a tango one or a phobos one (unless you use some ugly hacks).

I thought Tangobos was packaged in and would handle all Phobos calls without much hassle.

Does it still work? Is it up to date ?
Feb 11 2010
parent Eric Poggel <dnewsgroup yage3d.net> writes:
On 2/11/2010 9:14 AM, Moritz Warning wrote:
 On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:07:29 +0100, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2/11/10 06:11, strtr wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 At the moment, no. Currently, Tango is D1-only, but druntime (the
 thing that is supposed to allow Tango and Phobos to play nice together
 on a single installation) is D2-only. So once Tango is ported to D2,
 I'd imagine there will probably be a Tango+DMD2 bundle that will
 include phobos and all your tango *and* phobos calls should work fine.
 But on D1, a DMD installation is either a tango one or a phobos one
 (unless you use some ugly hacks).

without much hassle.


Afaik, it's far from being up-to-date.

Several months ago I got it up to date to work with the DMD + Tango 0.99.8 bundle (and committed my changes), and I'll check and fix it against Tango 0.99.9 when I get a chance, but I've been very busy lately so it may be weeks until I get to it. I'm not sure how it fares with GDC.
Feb 11 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Moritz Warning <moritzwarning web.de> writes:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:07:29 +0100, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2/11/10 06:11, strtr wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 At the moment, no. Currently, Tango is D1-only, but druntime (the
 thing that is supposed to allow Tango and Phobos to play nice together
 on a single installation) is D2-only. So once Tango is ported to D2,
 I'd imagine there will probably be a Tango+DMD2 bundle that will
 include phobos and all your tango *and* phobos calls should work fine.
 But on D1, a DMD installation is either a tango one or a phobos one
 (unless you use some ugly hacks).

without much hassle.


Afaik, it's far from being up-to-date.
Feb 11 2010
prev sibling parent Fawzi Mohamed <fawzi gmx.ch> writes:
On 11-feb-10, at 15:14, Moritz Warning wrote:

 On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:07:29 +0100, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

 On 2/11/10 06:11, strtr wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 At the moment, no. Currently, Tango is D1-only, but druntime (the
 thing that is supposed to allow Tango and Phobos to play nice  
 together
 on a single installation) is D2-only. So once Tango is ported to  
 D2,
 I'd imagine there will probably be a Tango+DMD2 bundle that will
 include phobos and all your tango *and* phobos calls should work  
 fine.
 But on D1, a DMD installation is either a tango one or a phobos one
 (unless you use some ugly hacks).

without much hassle.


Afaik, it's far from being up-to-date.

yes, I had made it worka long time ago with gdc and dmd, but since then tango changed a lot and ldc was never kept into account, so I think that tangobos is not really an option. Fawzi
Feb 11 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply downs <default_357-line yahoo.de> writes:
</obscure nerd culture joke>
Feb 10 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"downs" <default_357-line yahoo.de> wrote in message 
news:hkusr4$hob$1 digitalmars.com...
 </obscure nerd culture joke>

Neon Genesis? (I haven't seen enough of that show to recognize any 0.99.99 in it though, or maybe I'm just guessing wrong - or overthinking it ;) )
Feb 10 2010
next sibling parent reply Richard Webb <richard.webb boldonjames.com> writes:
Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

 "downs" <default_357-line yahoo.de> wrote in message 
 news:hkusr4$hob$1 digitalmars.com...
 </obscure nerd culture joke>

Neon Genesis?

Higurashi?
Feb 10 2010
parent reply downs <default_357-line yahoo.de> writes:
On 10.02.2010 22:10, Richard Webb wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
 
 "downs" <default_357-line yahoo.de> wrote in message 
 news:hkusr4$hob$1 digitalmars.com...
 </obscure nerd culture joke>

Neon Genesis?

Higurashi?

Ayup ;) (Recently watched it. It rules. )
Feb 11 2010
parent Chad J <chadjoan __spam.is.bad__gmail.com> writes:
downs wrote:
 On 10.02.2010 22:10, Richard Webb wrote:
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

 "downs" <default_357-line yahoo.de> wrote in message 
 news:hkusr4$hob$1 digitalmars.com...
 </obscure nerd culture joke>



Ayup ;) (Recently watched it. It rules. )

Also going to have to recommend it. So adorable and disturbing on multiple levels. Just watched up through ep 11 in Kai.
Feb 13 2010
prev sibling parent reply Ary Borenszweig <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:
Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "downs" <default_357-line yahoo.de> wrote in message 
 news:hkusr4$hob$1 digitalmars.com...
 </obscure nerd culture joke>

Neon Genesis? (I haven't seen enough of that show to recognize any 0.99.99 in it though, or maybe I'm just guessing wrong - or overthinking it ;) )

Maybe because they workers in nerv would say 0.000000000000000000000001... but that's the opposite of 0.999999999999999999999999... maybe...
Feb 10 2010
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Ary Borenszweig" <ary esperanto.org.ar> wrote in message 
news:hkvc5l$1hr8$1 digitalmars.com...
 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "downs" <default_357-line yahoo.de> wrote in message 
 news:hkusr4$hob$1 digitalmars.com...
 </obscure nerd culture joke>

Neon Genesis? (I haven't seen enough of that show to recognize any 0.99.99 in it though, or maybe I'm just guessing wrong - or overthinking it ;) )

Maybe because they workers in nerv would say 0.000000000000000000000001... but that's the opposite of 0.999999999999999999999999... maybe...

(Courtesy of my 8th grade math teacher): [ identity ] 1 == 1 [ / 3 ] 1/3 == 0.333... [ * 3 ] 3/3 == 0.999... [ simplify ] 1 == 0.999... Also: 1 - 0.000000000000000000000001 = 0.999999999999999999999990
Feb 10 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Clay Smith <clay.smith.r gmail.com> writes:
Tango is my standard library of choice, a true and beautiful effort by 
volunteers. Thanks Lars + Co.
- Clay

Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 Dear D community
 
 A new version of Tango is now available for download, named after Kai for 
 his several contributions in this cycle. The main focus of this release has 
 been final cleanup and a lot of bugfixing for the upcoming v1.0 package.
 
 This release has seen 356 tickets resolved, 932 commits, and is current with 
 the latest DMD compiler (v1.056). Some new features include:
 
  * Safe weak references
  * Arguments module
  * RIPE-MD128, RIPE-MD160 and Whirlpool digests by Kai
  * Vector and Stack containers can now be grown
  * !HomeFolder module
 
 
 For a complete list of changes please see 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/0_99_9_Changelog . We welcome all 
 feedback and are always looking for new participants, so feel free to 
 contact us via the page linked below. 
 
 Downloads and their install instructions are found at 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoDmd for DMD or 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TopicInstallTangoLdc for LDC. 
 
 Contact:
 Need support, or wish to help? Please see 
 http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/Contact .
 
 Home: 
 The Tango homepage is at http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango.
 
 Signed,
 
 The Tango Team

Feb 12 2010
prev sibling parent BLS <windevguy hotmail.de> writes:
On 10/02/2010 00:26, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 * !HomeFolder module

What de heck is * !HomeFolder module Thanks for enlightenment.. Like Bobef already said we need D2 support de..s..pera..te......ly I think we have a good idea against 3 times constness.. NO ?
Feb 14 2010