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digitalmars.D.announce - TDPL is an Amazon Kindle bestseller

reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
I'm very happy to announce that TDPL has entered the Amazon Kindle 
bestsellers list for Computer Programming, starting at position 94: 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/156140011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kinc_1_5_last

Andrei
Jun 18 2011
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/18/2011 5:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 I'm very happy to announce that TDPL has entered the Amazon Kindle bestsellers
 list for Computer Programming, starting at position 94:
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/156140011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kinc_1_5_last

Congrats!
Jun 19 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On 2011-06-18 17:36, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 I'm very happy to announce that TDPL has entered the Amazon Kindle
 bestsellers list for Computer Programming, starting at position 94:
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/156140011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_
 kinc_1_5_last

Well, I'm still not buying a Kindle. Death to e-books! ;) Definitely good news. Now if we could only finish getting the issues where the compiler is behind TDPL fixed... - Jonathan M Davis
Jun 19 2011
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/19/2011 12:29 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 Well, I'm still not buying a Kindle. Death to e-books! ;)

I just bought a Kindle and I'm running my unread paperbacks through the scanner and then trashing them!
Jun 19 2011
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/19/2011 2:18 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 On 2011-06-19 13:26, Walter Bright wrote:
 I just bought a Kindle and I'm running my unread paperbacks through the
 scanner and then trashing them!

I _much_ prefer reading actual, solid, paper books. I don't particularly like reading books in electronic form at all. It works well for documentation and searchability, but beyond that, I don't see it as an advantage at all. And in those cases, I'd be reading them on the computer, not an e-book reader. And of course, then there's the issue of DRM and all that.... So, I don't own an e-book reader and I hope that e-books never become so prominent that I'm forced to.

Your last sentence is interesting. I've read many accounts by people who had such a sentiment, and then skeptically thought they'd give an ebook a fair try. After a year, they completely changed their minds. Anyhow, I hear you. I've been buying books my whole life. I have shelves creaking with them, boxes of books in the basement, etc. They've simply become a burden. I'd simply like to get all my information properties - pictures, books, papers, music, movies, letters, documents - onto a disk. They'll be always there, sorted, categorized, instantly available, weighing nothing, and taking up no space. The advent of enormous and cheap disks has finally made this practical. The migration of my books to the computer has awaited an easy way to read them. The Kindle has finally solved that problem, at least for paperbacks. It doesn't work well for larger books (I presume the Kindle DX will, but I think I'd prefer an ipad for large format books.) I'm scanning my paperbacks to PDFs, and the Kindle will display them one page image at a time. DRM is not an issue for that. After a bit of a learning curve, I've got it where it doesn't take much time at all to whack off the binding and run a paperback through my sheet fed scanner. The one thing I'm not ripping are movies. Netflix has changed everything for me. With so much available to watch, I don't care to rewatch any old movies. There's no reason to buy, own, archive, or collect a DVD anymore.
Jun 19 2011
next sibling parent Charles Hixson <charleshixsn earthlink.net> writes:
Considering that Amazon has the proven capability of removing a book 
from your Kindle after you've bought it, I don't expect that I'll EVER 
decide to invest in a Kindle.  Some other e-book reader is a 
possibility.  The Nook has certain interesting features, and there's one 
that would be a good choice if it weren't twice as expensive as the 
competition.

But until I feel safe investing in an e-book reader, I don't expect to 
buy one.  (And invest is the term.  It's not so much the cost of the 
reader, as the cost of the things read...that can't easily and reliably 
be either read or transferred to another reader.)

On 06/19/2011 06:57 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/19/2011 2:18 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 On 2011-06-19 13:26, Walter Bright wrote:
 I just bought a Kindle and I'm running my unread paperbacks through the
 scanner and then trashing them!

I _much_ prefer reading actual, solid, paper books. I don't particularly like reading books in electronic form at all. It works well for documentation and searchability, but beyond that, I don't see it as an advantage at all. And in those cases, I'd be reading them on the computer, not an e-book reader. And of course, then there's the issue of DRM and all that.... So, I don't own an e-book reader and I hope that e-books never become so prominent that I'm forced to.

Your last sentence is interesting. I've read many accounts by people who had such a sentiment, and then skeptically thought they'd give an ebook a fair try. After a year, they completely changed their minds. Anyhow, I hear you. I've been buying books my whole life. I have shelves creaking with them, boxes of books in the basement, etc. They've simply become a burden. I'd simply like to get all my information properties - pictures, books, papers, music, movies, letters, documents - onto a disk. They'll be always there, sorted, categorized, instantly available, weighing nothing, and taking up no space. The advent of enormous and cheap disks has finally made this practical. The migration of my books to the computer has awaited an easy way to read them. The Kindle has finally solved that problem, at least for paperbacks. It doesn't work well for larger books (I presume the Kindle DX will, but I think I'd prefer an ipad for large format books.) I'm scanning my paperbacks to PDFs, and the Kindle will display them one page image at a time. DRM is not an issue for that. After a bit of a learning curve, I've got it where it doesn't take much time at all to whack off the binding and run a paperback through my sheet fed scanner. The one thing I'm not ripping are movies. Netflix has changed everything for me. With so much available to watch, I don't care to rewatch any old movies. There's no reason to buy, own, archive, or collect a DVD anymore.

Jun 19 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Walter:

 With so much available to watch, I don't care to rewatch any old movies.
There's 
 no reason to buy, own, archive, or collect a DVD anymore.

You find time still to watch movies! :-) Bye, bearophile
Jun 20 2011
prev sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:itm9mu$1k99$1 digitalmars.com...
 The one thing I'm not ripping are movies. Netflix has changed everything 
 for me. With so much available to watch, I don't care to rewatch any old 
 movies. There's no reason to buy, own, archive, or collect a DVD anymore.

I don't buy DVDs anymore, but for different reasons: PUOs, DRM, and Libraries. I don't know how it is in other parts of the country (or other countries), but Ohio's libraries are good enough to make Netflix look slow, overpriced and pointless. I can order whatever I want from almost any library in the greater Cleveland area, or any college library in the state, have it shipped just down the street (yea, not to my doorstep, but I like having a reason to actually get out of the house, so that's a *plus* for me). I can have a whole bunch of them out at one time, 10+, etc, no problem. If I want something *now* I can just go and pick something out on-the-spot and not have to deal with high-compression or high-latency streaming or give up the DVD-bonuses or multiple language/subtitle tracks (*not* something you want to give up with anime). There's no regular fee, and you don't have any problems with late fees as long as you're actually responsible. And even with occasional late fees, it's still far cheaper (and can have far more out at one time) than Netflix - and that was true back when the late fees were $1/day. Now they're around 10-20 cents a day. You'd have to be insanely irresponsible for that to even start to compare to the price of Netflix. Plus most stuff goes out for 3 weeks at a time, with up to 20 renewals as long as no one else has it on hold (and popular stuff they have a ton of copies of). Oh, and messed up discs aren't a problem as often as you'd think.
Jun 20 2011
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/20/2011 12:02 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I can have a
 whole bunch of them out at one time, 10+, etc, no problem.

Sounds like your Ohio system is great. There isn't one like that here. Anyhow, I thought that only one DVD at a time would be an issue with Netflix. Turns out, it is fine. It winds up being about 2 a week. There's plenty of streaming stuff in between DVDs. I don't really need a reason to watch more DVDs!
Jun 20 2011
prev sibling parent reply Kagamin <spam here.lot> writes:
Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

 I don't buy DVDs anymore, but for different reasons: PUOs, DRM, and 
 Libraries.

Wait. You mean printed books libraries? They rent video content in America?
Jun 20 2011
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Kagamin" <spam here.lot> wrote in message 
news:itp8ke$ip5$1 digitalmars.com...
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

 I don't buy DVDs anymore, but for different reasons: PUOs, DRM, and
 Libraries.

Wait. You mean printed books libraries? They rent video content in America?

Yup. And CDs. Some of them even have a few videogames. At least this is all true in the Cleveland area anyway. I don't know about other parts of the country.
Jun 21 2011
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> wrote in message 
news:itprae$1it6$1 digitalmars.com...
 "Kagamin" <spam here.lot> wrote in message 
 news:itp8ke$ip5$1 digitalmars.com...
 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

 I don't buy DVDs anymore, but for different reasons: PUOs, DRM, and
 Libraries.

Wait. You mean printed books libraries? They rent video content in America?

Yup. And CDs. Some of them even have a few videogames.

And audiobooks.
 At least this is all true in the Cleveland area anyway. I don't know about 
 other parts of the country.

Jun 21 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Ary Manzana <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:
On 6/20/11 4:18 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 On 2011-06-19 13:26, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/19/2011 12:29 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 Well, I'm still not buying a Kindle. Death to e-books! ;)

I just bought a Kindle and I'm running my unread paperbacks through the scanner and then trashing them!

I _much_ prefer reading actual, solid, paper books. I don't particularly like reading books in electronic form at all. It works well for documentation and searchability, but beyond that, I don't see it as an advantage at all. And in those cases, I'd be reading them on the computer, not an e-book reader. And of course, then there's the issue of DRM and all that.... So, I don't own an e-book reader and I hope that e-books never become so prominent that I'm forced to. - Jonathan M Davis

Say that to the trees :-)
Jun 19 2011
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/19/2011 8:51 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 I don't like reading off screens - especially small screens. I much prefer
 actual books. And I have no problem with other people wanting e-books just so
 long as it doesn't result in my not being to get physical books anymore. I'm
 just afraid that the general trend will lead to physical books dying out,
 which I would consider to be horrible for reading - especially for novels.

I suspect that the pulp paperbacks will largely disappear within 5 years, much like film cameras. The Kindle screen doesn't have the size and aspect ratio of a paperback, I'd prefer that it did.
Jun 19 2011
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:itmh8e$209r$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 6/19/2011 8:51 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 I don't like reading off screens - especially small screens. I much 
 prefer
 actual books. And I have no problem with other people wanting e-books 
 just so
 long as it doesn't result in my not being to get physical books anymore. 
 I'm
 just afraid that the general trend will lead to physical books dying out,
 which I would consider to be horrible for reading - especially for 
 novels.

I suspect that the pulp paperbacks will largely disappear within 5 years, much like film cameras.

I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away. Than again, most consumers are complete morons...(The "dancing pigs" theory and all that...)
Jun 20 2011
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away. Than
 again, most consumers are complete morons...(The "dancing pigs" theory and
 all that...)

Notice that DRM has faded away on downloadable music. I suspect there will be increasing pressure to remove it for books, too.
Jun 20 2011
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:ito7i8$1tb7$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away. Than
 again, most consumers are complete morons...(The "dancing pigs" theory 
 and
 all that...)

Notice that DRM has faded away on downloadable music.

Has it? I really haven't been paying attention to (legally) downloadable music since when I did look at it, it was all either heavily DRMed or MP3. I know the iTunes store started offering DRM-less stuff, but they were charging extra for it, so I wasn't interested (especially since I could rip the DRM out myself).
 I suspect there will be increasing pressure to remove it for books, too.

I hope so. Then I'd likely be interested in an ebook reader.
Jun 20 2011
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:op.vxecf1treav7ka localhost.localdomain...
 On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:49:33 -0400, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:ito7i8$1tb7$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away. 
 Than
 again, most consumers are complete morons...(The "dancing pigs" theory
 and
 all that...)

Notice that DRM has faded away on downloadable music.

Has it? I really haven't been paying attention to (legally) downloadable music since when I did look at it, it was all either heavily DRMed or MP3. I know the iTunes store started offering DRM-less stuff, but they were charging extra for it, so I wasn't interested (especially since I could rip the DRM out myself).

iTunes (at least the music part of it) is DRM free. You can no longer download DRM'd songs from apple (and you can re-download DRM-free versions of any songs you purchased before they made this change for free). Yes, they are charging more for some songs, and less for others. But as far as I know, there is no fee for removing DRM. The increase in price was a compromise to get the artists to agree to remove DRM from all the songs. They are also charging less in some cases (but probably only on songs nobody wants :). The increase is not exorbitant. From what I remember it was 1.29 instead of .99 per song. I don't know the exact details, I haven't bought many songs from iTunes, my current ripped tracks are usually good enough :)

Interesting. Yea, I guess my info on that is out of date then. Last I heard they had just started adding the option (to some songs) of paying $0.30 extra to get a DRM-less lossless version. Glad to hear that turned out to just be a stepping stone.
Jun 20 2011
parent Kagamin <spam here.lot> writes:
Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

 The increase is not exorbitant.  From what I
 remember it was 1.29 instead of .99 per song.

Interesting. Yea, I guess my info on that is out of date then. Last I heard they had just started adding the option (to some songs) of paying $0.30 extra to get a DRM-less lossless version. Glad to hear that turned out to just be a stepping stone.

? 0.99+0.30=1.29 They just removed an option to dl drm version at a lower price.
Jun 21 2011
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.

Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and vice versa.
Jun 20 2011
next sibling parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:itols1$2mh5$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.

Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and vice versa.

Yup. DRM sucks.
Jun 20 2011
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-06-21 02:39, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "Walter Bright"<newshound2 digitalmars.com>  wrote in message
 news:itols1$2mh5$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.

Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and vice versa.

Yup. DRM sucks.

I have a Kindle, the one with the lager screen, and haven't bought a single book from their store. I only read DRM free PDF books and files. I'm satisfied with my Kindle. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Jun 20 2011
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/20/2011 11:37 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 I have a Kindle, the one with the lager screen,

You mean one comes with free beer? Dang, I missed that in the feature chart!
Jun 21 2011
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-06-21 11:57, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/20/2011 11:37 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 I have a Kindle, the one with the lager screen,

You mean one comes with free beer? Dang, I missed that in the feature chart!

Exactly, they have one version that comes with ale instead :) -- /Jacob Carlborg
Jun 21 2011
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Jacob Carlborg" <doob me.com> wrote in message 
news:itpus1$1odg$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 2011-06-21 11:57, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/20/2011 11:37 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 I have a Kindle, the one with the lager screen,

You mean one comes with free beer? Dang, I missed that in the feature chart!

Exactly, they have one version that comes with ale instead :)

I bet those would go well with that Windows book by Pretzold.
Jun 21 2011
prev sibling parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 21.06.2011 01:37, schrieb Walter Bright:
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.

Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and vice versa.

(I sent this reply yesterday, but it seems like the server lost it) DRM is generally a bad idea - especially for stuff you buy and not just rent. Once the DRM servers are down (because the company is bankrupt or stops the service) your books/music/movies/... are gone. Because of that I'd never buy E-Books or music with DRM - if I buy a book I want to be able to read it again in 20 years - same with music. Plus I want to be able to play music on any device (like my car radio) and not just on my PC or iPod. So I agree with Nick: Until E-Books are DRM free (and have a standard format that works on any E-Book reader, but I think this is already available) they (hopefully!) won't supersede paperbacks. Another thing is that I actually like having real books in my shelf, just like CDs and computer games (it already pisses me off that the they are usually distributed in DVD cases now and not anymore in these big cardboard boxes). Cheers, - Daniel
Jun 21 2011
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/21/2011 6:04 AM, Daniel Gibson wrote:
 Another thing is that I actually like having real books in my shelf,
 just like CDs and computer games (it already pisses me off that the they
 are usually distributed in DVD cases now and not anymore in these big
 cardboard boxes).

I do too, until there get to be too many of them! Then they're a burden. I have too many. I don't mind DRM on things that I rent, such as Netflix movies. I'd have no problem renting books from Amazon that are DRM'd. I'd pay some modest monthly fee to Amazon if I could 'rent' one book at a time on my Kindle, up to so many per month. I also wouldn't mind DRM if the cost is low enough, but most DRM books on the Kindle are at price points where I'd want to own them free & clear.
Jun 21 2011
prev sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:op.vxfgdv1ceav7ka localhost.localdomain...
 On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:04:13 -0400, Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> 
 wrote:

 Am 21.06.2011 01:37, schrieb Walter Bright:
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.

Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and vice versa.

(I sent this reply yesterday, but it seems like the server lost it) DRM is generally a bad idea - especially for stuff you buy and not just rent. Once the DRM servers are down (because the company is bankrupt or stops the service) your books/music/movies/... are gone.

This actually happened with Yahoo music. I had about 60 songs in Yahoo music (used to be MusicMatch) that had DRM in them when they decided to close up shop. Want to know what their solution was? Burn them to CD and then re-rip them. Imagine that, a music download site *promoting* removing the DRM from music! After a certain date, if you hadn't done that, and your computer crashed, you were SOL.

Heh, so the only way Yahoo allowed you to keep the music you legitimately bought is by degrading the quality (I'm assuming they weren't lossless to begin with?). About what I'd expect from those yahoos.
Jun 21 2011
prev sibling parent Ary Manzana <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:
On 6/20/11 10:56 AM, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
 They won't die out. They'll just become rarer. Just like vinyl (and
 you can still buy vinyl!).

I hope you are not talking about the trees! ;-)
Jun 19 2011
prev sibling parent reply Don <nospam nospam.com> writes:
Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 On 2011-06-19 13:26, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/19/2011 12:29 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 Well, I'm still not buying a Kindle. Death to e-books! ;)

scanner and then trashing them!

I _much_ prefer reading actual, solid, paper books. I don't particularly like reading books in electronic form at all. It works well for documentation and searchability, but beyond that, I don't see it as an advantage at all. And in those cases, I'd be reading them on the computer, not an e-book reader. And of course, then there's the issue of DRM and all that.... So, I don't own an e-book reader and I hope that e-books never become so prominent that I'm forced to. - Jonathan M Davis

There's a solution: http://smellofbooks.com/
Jun 20 2011
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/20/2011 12:11 AM, Don wrote:
 There's a solution:

 http://smellofbooks.com/

It says it's a "new book" smell. I actually like the old book smell.
Jun 20 2011
parent Don <nospam nospam.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/20/2011 12:11 AM, Don wrote:
 There's a solution:

 http://smellofbooks.com/

It says it's a "new book" smell. I actually like the old book smell.

Check the full product list. There's an old book smell as well. And "Eau, you have cats". Make sure you read the warnings.
Jun 20 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On 2011-06-19 13:26, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/19/2011 12:29 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 Well, I'm still not buying a Kindle. Death to e-books! ;)

I just bought a Kindle and I'm running my unread paperbacks through the scanner and then trashing them!

I _much_ prefer reading actual, solid, paper books. I don't particularly like reading books in electronic form at all. It works well for documentation and searchability, but beyond that, I don't see it as an advantage at all. And in those cases, I'd be reading them on the computer, not an e-book reader. And of course, then there's the issue of DRM and all that.... So, I don't own an e-book reader and I hope that e-books never become so prominent that I'm forced to. - Jonathan M Davis
Jun 19 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On 2011-06-19 20:43, Ary Manzana wrote:
 On 6/20/11 4:18 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 On 2011-06-19 13:26, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/19/2011 12:29 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 Well, I'm still not buying a Kindle. Death to e-books! ;)

I just bought a Kindle and I'm running my unread paperbacks through the scanner and then trashing them!

I _much_ prefer reading actual, solid, paper books. I don't particularly like reading books in electronic form at all. It works well for documentation and searchability, but beyond that, I don't see it as an advantage at all. And in those cases, I'd be reading them on the computer, not an e-book reader. And of course, then there's the issue of DRM and all that.... So, I don't own an e-book reader and I hope that e-books never become so prominent that I'm forced to. - Jonathan M Davis

Say that to the trees :-)

Honestly, I don't care. As long as people are smart about logging, trees are a completely renewable resource. But I don't want to turn this into an environment debate. I don't like reading off screens - especially small screens. I much prefer actual books. And I have no problem with other people wanting e-books just so long as it doesn't result in my not being to get physical books anymore. I'm just afraid that the general trend will lead to physical books dying out, which I would consider to be horrible for reading - especially for novels. - Jonathan M Davis
Jun 19 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
They won't die out. They'll just become rarer. Just like vinyl (and
you can still buy vinyl!).
Jun 19 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrew Wiley <wiley.andrew.j gmail.com> writes:
--001636c5c18c8a9ad904a61f36f1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Charles Hixson <charleshixsn earthlink.net
 wrote:

 Considering that Amazon has the proven capability of removing a book from
 your Kindle after you've bought it, I don't expect that I'll EVER decide to
 invest in a Kindle.  Some other e-book reader is a possibility.  The Nook
 has certain interesting features, and there's one that would be a good
 choice if it weren't twice as expensive as the competition.

I own an original basic Nook, and I'm very satisfied. One of the cool things for people that like messing with these things is that the Nook is running Android, deep deep down, so I can install custom apps and WPA Supplicant configs to get on my University Wifi. I can literally drop PDFs and EPUBs (and probably a bunch of other formats I haven't had to use) onto the Nook with no external applications and have them detected and available for reading. The Nook simple touch (the new basic one) is also very appealing. I've seen it in stores, and it feels a lot more like a paperback. On the other hand, the Nook Color has Angry Birds. I can't argue with that :D --001636c5c18c8a9ad904a61f36f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Charles Hixson= <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:charleshixsn earthlink.net">charle= shixsn earthlink.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu= ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex= ;"> Considering that Amazon has the proven capability of removing a book from y= our Kindle after you&#39;ve bought it, I don&#39;t expect that I&#39;ll EVE= R decide to invest in a Kindle. =A0Some other e-book reader is a possibilit= y. =A0The Nook has certain interesting features, and there&#39;s one that w= ould be a good choice if it weren&#39;t twice as expensive as the competiti= on.<br> </blockquote><div><br></div><div>I own an original basic Nook, and I&#39;m = very satisfied. One of the cool things for people that like messing with th= ese things is that the Nook is running Android, deep deep down, so I can in= stall custom apps and WPA Supplicant configs to get on my University Wifi. = I can literally drop PDFs and EPUBs (and probably a bunch of other formats = I haven&#39;t had to use) onto the Nook with no external applications and h= ave them detected and available for reading.</div> <div><br></div><div>The Nook simple touch (the new basic one) is also very = appealing. I&#39;ve seen it in stores, and it feels a lot more like a paper= back.</div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, the Nook Color has Angry = Birds. I can&#39;t argue with that :D</div> </div> --001636c5c18c8a9ad904a61f36f1--
Jun 19 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrew Wiley <wiley.andrew.j gmail.com> writes:
--0016e68ea0b25c09df04a61f3af7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Andrew Wiley <wiley.andrew.j gmail.com>wrote:

 On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:13 PM, Charles Hixson <
 charleshixsn earthlink.net> wrote:

 Considering that Amazon has the proven capability of removing a book from
 your Kindle after you've bought it, I don't expect that I'll EVER decide to
 invest in a Kindle.  Some other e-book reader is a possibility.  The Nook
 has certain interesting features, and there's one that would be a good
 choice if it weren't twice as expensive as the competition.

I own an original basic Nook, and I'm very satisfied. One of the cool things for people that like messing with these things is that the Nook is running Android, deep deep down, so I can install custom apps and WPA Supplicant configs to get on my University Wifi. I can literally drop PDFs and EPUBs (and probably a bunch of other formats I haven't had to use) onto the Nook with no external applications and have them detected and available for reading. The Nook simple touch (the new basic one) is also very appealing. I've seen it in stores, and it feels a lot more like a paperback. On the other hand, the Nook Color has Angry Birds. I can't argue with that :D

Also, the E-Ink Nook is the same price as the Kindle. --0016e68ea0b25c09df04a61f3af7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Andrew= Wiley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wiley.andrew.j gmail.com">wi= ley.andrew.j gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_= quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1= ex;"> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:13 = PM, Charles Hixson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:charleshixsn ear= thlink.net" target=3D"_blank">charleshixsn earthlink.net</a>&gt;</span> wro= te:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Considering that Amazon has the proven capability of removing a book from y= our Kindle after you&#39;ve bought it, I don&#39;t expect that I&#39;ll EVE= R decide to invest in a Kindle. =A0Some other e-book reader is a possibilit= y. =A0The Nook has certain interesting features, and there&#39;s one that w= ould be a good choice if it weren&#39;t twice as expensive as the competiti= on.<br> </blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I own an original basic Nook, and I&= #39;m very satisfied. One of the cool things for people that like messing w= ith these things is that the Nook is running Android, deep deep down, so I = can install custom apps and WPA Supplicant configs to get on my University = Wifi. I can literally drop PDFs and EPUBs (and probably a bunch of other fo= rmats I haven&#39;t had to use) onto the Nook with no external applications= and have them detected and available for reading.</div> <div><br></div><div>The Nook simple touch (the new basic one) is also very = appealing. I&#39;ve seen it in stores, and it feels a lot more like a paper= back.</div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, the Nook Color has Angry = Birds. I can&#39;t argue with that :D</div> </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Also, the E-Ink Nook is the same pri= ce as the Kindle.</div></div> --0016e68ea0b25c09df04a61f3af7--
Jun 19 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On 2011-06-20 00:11, Don wrote:
 Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 On 2011-06-19 13:26, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/19/2011 12:29 PM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:
 Well, I'm still not buying a Kindle. Death to e-books! ;)

I just bought a Kindle and I'm running my unread paperbacks through the scanner and then trashing them!

I _much_ prefer reading actual, solid, paper books. I don't particularly like reading books in electronic form at all. It works well for documentation and searchability, but beyond that, I don't see it as an advantage at all. And in those cases, I'd be reading them on the computer, not an e-book reader. And of course, then there's the issue of DRM and all that.... So, I don't own an e-book reader and I hope that e-books never become so prominent that I'm forced to. - Jonathan M Davis

There's a solution: http://smellofbooks.com/

Ouch. - Jonathan M Davis
Jun 20 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 21:57:22 -0400, Walter Bright  
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:

 The one thing I'm not ripping are movies. Netflix has changed everything  
 for me. With so much available to watch, I don't care to rewatch any old  
 movies. There's no reason to buy, own, archive, or collect a DVD anymore.

Netflix streaming + apple TV is life changing. I barely ever watch TV anymore (and I have a TiVo HD too). Although I did make an exception for the Bruin's Stanley Cup championship :) -Steve
Jun 20 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Brad Anderson <eco gnuk.net> writes:
--002354186e6479772204a62083a1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu <
SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 I'm very happy to announce that TDPL has entered the Amazon Kindle
 bestsellers list for Computer Programming, starting at position 94:
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/**bestsellers/digital-text/**
 156140011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kinc_**1_5_last<http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/156140011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kinc_1_5_last>

 Andrei

success to myself. Go me and my money! Once I finish it I'll write a review. Maybe that'll bump it up a spot in the best reviewed category ;) --002354186e6479772204a62083a1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;= <a href=3D"mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org">SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.= org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class= =3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd= ing-left:1ex;"> I&#39;m very happy to announce that TDPL has entered the Amazon Kindle best= sellers list for Computer Programming, starting at position 94: <a href=3D"= http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/156140011/ref=3Dpd_zg_hrs= r_kinc_1_5_last" target=3D"_blank">http://www.amazon.com/gp/<u></u>bestsell= ers/digital-text/<u></u>156140011/ref=3Dpd_zg_hrsr_kinc_<u></u>1_5_last</a>= <br> <font color=3D"#888888"> <br> Andrei<br> <br> </font></blockquote></div><br><div>I just got it for the Kindle so I&#39;m = going to go ahead and attribute this success to myself. =A0Go me and my mon= ey! =A0Once I finish it I&#39;ll write a review. =A0Maybe that&#39;ll bump = it up a spot in the best reviewed category ;)</div> --002354186e6479772204a62083a1--
Jun 20 2011
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 6/20/11 3:28 AM, Brad Anderson wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org <mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>>
 wrote:

     I'm very happy to announce that TDPL has entered the Amazon Kindle
     bestsellers list for Computer Programming, starting at position 94:
     http://www.amazon.com/gp/__bestsellers/digital-text/__156140011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kinc___1_5_last
     <http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/156140011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kinc_1_5_last>

     Andrei


 I just got it for the Kindle so I'm going to go ahead and attribute this
 success to myself.  Go me and my money!

That must be indeed true. TDPL only stayed briefly on the bestsellers list, and that was because of a brief surge in Kindle sales this weekend.
 Once I finish it I'll write a review. Maybe that'll bump it up a spot
 in the best reviewed category ;)

Well don't assume your review will be favorable before you finish reading :o). Thanks, Andrei
Jun 20 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:49:33 -0400, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:ito7i8$1tb7$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.  
 Than
 again, most consumers are complete morons...(The "dancing pigs" theory
 and
 all that...)

Notice that DRM has faded away on downloadable music.

Has it? I really haven't been paying attention to (legally) downloadable music since when I did look at it, it was all either heavily DRMed or MP3. I know the iTunes store started offering DRM-less stuff, but they were charging extra for it, so I wasn't interested (especially since I could rip the DRM out myself).

iTunes (at least the music part of it) is DRM free. You can no longer download DRM'd songs from apple (and you can re-download DRM-free versions of any songs you purchased before they made this change for free). Yes, they are charging more for some songs, and less for others. But as far as I know, there is no fee for removing DRM. The increase in price was a compromise to get the artists to agree to remove DRM from all the songs. They are also charging less in some cases (but probably only on songs nobody wants :). The increase is not exorbitant. From what I remember it was 1.29 instead of .99 per song. I don't know the exact details, I haven't bought many songs from iTunes, my current ripped tracks are usually good enough :) -Steve
Jun 20 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 15:49:33 -0400, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:ito7i8$1tb7$1 digitalmars.com...
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.  
 Than
 again, most consumers are complete morons...(The "dancing pigs" theory
 and
 all that...)

Notice that DRM has faded away on downloadable music.

Has it? I really haven't been paying attention to (legally) downloadable music since when I did look at it, it was all either heavily DRMed or MP3. I know the iTunes store started offering DRM-less stuff, but they were charging extra for it, so I wasn't interested (especially since I could rip the DRM out myself).

iTunes (at least the music part of it) is DRM free. You can no longer download DRM'd songs from apple (and you can re-download DRM-free versions of any songs you purchased before they made this change for free). Yes, they are charging more for some songs, and less for others. But as far as I know, there is no fee for removing DRM. The increase in price was a compromise to get the artists to agree to remove DRM from all the songs. They are also charging less in some cases (but probably only on songs nobody wants :). The increase is not exorbitant. From what I remember it was 1.29 instead of .99 per song. I don't know the exact details, I haven't bought many songs from iTunes, my current ripped tracks are usually good enough :) -Steve
Jun 20 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 06:37:18 -0400, Kagamin <spam here.lot> wrote:

 Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

 The increase is not exorbitant.  From what I
 remember it was 1.29 instead of .99 per song.

Interesting. Yea, I guess my info on that is out of date then. Last I heard they had just started adding the option (to some songs) of paying $0.30 extra to get a DRM-less lossless version. Glad to hear that turned out to just be a stepping stone.

? 0.99+0.30=1.29 They just removed an option to dl drm version at a lower price.

There are still some songs at 0.99, and some at 0.69 I think too. It depends on what the artist wants to charge. But I think also, songs you bought with DRM at 0.99 are free to update to DRM-free versions, whereas as Nick stated (I didn't know this), it was .30 to remove DRM from it previously. The best part about it however, is that if you as an artist want the benefit of having your music on the most popular download site, you have to make your music available DRM-free. That's a huge step, and it proves that DRM-free downloadable music is a viable business option. I've always not been a fan of DRM, even though I am respectful of copyright law. It's my legal copy, I should be able to play it on whatever I want, whenever I want. DRM just restricts fair-use, it doesn't stop illegal copying. Especially with music, where a pirate can spend $20 to get a CD they can rip the tracks from and make perfect DRM-free copies to sell. I think the continued success of iTunes shows this is true. -Steve
Jun 21 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:04:13 -0400, Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com>  
wrote:

 Am 21.06.2011 01:37, schrieb Walter Bright:
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.

Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and vice versa.

(I sent this reply yesterday, but it seems like the server lost it) DRM is generally a bad idea - especially for stuff you buy and not just rent. Once the DRM servers are down (because the company is bankrupt or stops the service) your books/music/movies/... are gone.

This actually happened with Yahoo music. I had about 60 songs in Yahoo music (used to be MusicMatch) that had DRM in them when they decided to close up shop. Want to know what their solution was? Burn them to CD and then re-rip them. Imagine that, a music download site *promoting* removing the DRM from music! After a certain date, if you hadn't done that, and your computer crashed, you were SOL. I happened to burn all of them to disk about a week before my motherboard fried, so I was glad I did that :) The only issue is, now when I rip them, there is no track information. So I have to listen to each song, then hand-type in the track info. *THAT* is annoying. I'm all for DRM-free stuff, it's definitely a better way to go. -Steve
Jun 21 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Caligo <iteronvexor gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 On 6/21/2011 6:04 AM, Daniel Gibson wrote:
 Another thing is that I actually like having real books in my shelf,
 just like CDs and computer games (it already pisses me off that the they
 are usually distributed in DVD cases now and not anymore in these big
 cardboard boxes).

I do too, until there get to be too many of them! Then they're a burden. I have too many. I don't mind DRM on things that I rent, such as Netflix movies. I'd have no problem renting books from Amazon that are DRM'd. I'd pay some modest monthly fee to Amazon if I could 'rent' one book at a time on my Kindle, up to so many per month. I also wouldn't mind DRM if the cost is low enough, but most DRM books on the Kindle are at price points where I'd want to own them free & clear.

yall forgetting about digital libraries such as http://my.safaribooksonline.com/ As a university student I get free access and I can read anything anywhere. The idea of ownership is obsolete. Strategic access is the future.
Jun 21 2011
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Caligo" <iteronvexor gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1085.1308685320.14074.digitalmars-d-announce puremagic.com...
 On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Walter Bright
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 On 6/21/2011 6:04 AM, Daniel Gibson wrote:
 Another thing is that I actually like having real books in my shelf,
 just like CDs and computer games (it already pisses me off that the they
 are usually distributed in DVD cases now and not anymore in these big
 cardboard boxes).

I do too, until there get to be too many of them! Then they're a burden. I have too many. I don't mind DRM on things that I rent, such as Netflix movies. I'd have no problem renting books from Amazon that are DRM'd. I'd pay some modest monthly fee to Amazon if I could 'rent' one book at a time on my Kindle, up to so many per month. I also wouldn't mind DRM if the cost is low enough, but most DRM books on the Kindle are at price points where I'd want to own them free & clear.

yall forgetting about digital libraries such as http://my.safaribooksonline.com/ As a university student I get free access and I can read anything anywhere. The idea of ownership is obsolete. Strategic access is the future.

s/obsolete/not trendy/ s/Strategic/Restricted/
Jun 21 2011
prev sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:52 -0400, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> wrote in message
 news:op.vxfgdv1ceav7ka localhost.localdomain...
 On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:04:13 -0400, Daniel Gibson  
 <metalcaedes gmail.com>
 wrote:

 Am 21.06.2011 01:37, schrieb Walter Bright:
 On 6/20/2011 12:13 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 I've been guessing that will only happen when DRM starts going away.

Sadly, any DRM books you buy on the Nook aren't usable on the Kindle and vice versa.

(I sent this reply yesterday, but it seems like the server lost it) DRM is generally a bad idea - especially for stuff you buy and not just rent. Once the DRM servers are down (because the company is bankrupt or stops the service) your books/music/movies/... are gone.

This actually happened with Yahoo music. I had about 60 songs in Yahoo music (used to be MusicMatch) that had DRM in them when they decided to close up shop. Want to know what their solution was? Burn them to CD and then re-rip them. Imagine that, a music download site *promoting* removing the DRM from music! After a certain date, if you hadn't done that, and your computer crashed, you were SOL.

Heh, so the only way Yahoo allowed you to keep the music you legitimately bought is by degrading the quality (I'm assuming they weren't lossless to begin with?). About what I'd expect from those yahoos.

The quality was not bad, it was 360k I believe. The quality certainly was not an issue (even after burning and re-encoding using iTunes). What was (and still is, since I haven't finished doing it!) an issue is the process to de-authorize the content. It would have been nicer to provide a tool to do it instead of making me 1) waste writable CDs, 2) waste time burning CDs and 3) waste time trying to figure out what tags to put on each song. But in the end, having playable songs is better than just having to throw away the songs, and what am I going to do, complain to some business that's going out of business? :) Yeah, DRM is sucky, especially for things like books and music. I can see it being used for some place that you rent/borrow things (library/netflix), but to sell me a copy and not let me do what I want with it is crap. -Steve
Jun 21 2011