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digitalmars.D.announce - OT: Years of Errors

reply Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com> writes:
2_300_000 Euro, two years too late, still not capable to serve the 
contracted workload and more then ten severe errors in the bug-tracker.

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09

Who can show, that choosing D as implementation language would have 
avoided such a desaster?

-manfred
Mar 28 2007
next sibling parent reply Frits van Bommel <fvbommel REMwOVExCAPSs.nl> writes:
Manfred Nowak wrote:
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09

For those who don't speak German, and in line with the recent discussion about automatic translation, the Google translation is somewhat readable: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2F87499%2Ffrom%2Frss09&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (definitely not perfect though)
Mar 28 2007
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Frits van Bommel wrote:
 Manfred Nowak wrote:
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09

For those who don't speak German, and in line with the recent discussion about automatic translation, the Google translation is somewhat readable: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2F87499%2Ffrom%2Frss09&langpair=d %7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (definitely not perfect though)

Hmm. When I translated it, it came back: "Das maschinen ist nicht for gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Sitz back und vatch das spitzensparken." I know a little swedish, so tried that translation: "Zee plunned noo cumpooter prugrem fur zee Befereeun puleece-a beceme-a geeunt feeeloore-a. Effter tests und meelliun-infestments fur muny yeers zee meenistry ooff zee Intereeur vunts tu step oooot ooff zee oorder fur zee defelupment ooff a sufftvere-a fur zee ruster oorguneezeshun (DeePleZ). Thet unnuoonced puleece-a furce-a preseedent Veldemer Keendler tudey eccurdeeng tu Germun Press Egency in zee intereeur cummeettee-a ooff zee federel stete-a perleeement. It vunted tu inffurm zee esseegned sufftvere-a cumpuny immedeeetely effter zee meeteeng. Zee prugrem is sooeeteble-a becoose-a ooff irrurs und zee nut reeched user lued fur a soorffece-a cufereeng impluyment in zee Free-a Stete-a, seeed Keendler. Zee tupeec stunds tudey reeght et zee tup oon zee egenda ooff zee cummeettee-a fur lucel qooesshuns und internel secooreety. Bork Bork Bork!"
Mar 28 2007
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Frits van Bommel wrote:
 Manfred Nowak wrote:
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09

For those who don't speak German, and in line with the recent discussion about automatic translation, the Google translation is somewhat readable: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2F87499%2Ffrom%2Frss09&langpair=d %7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (definitely not perfect though)

Hmm. When I translated it, it came back: "Das maschinen ist nicht for gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Sitz back und vatch das spitzensparken."

LOL. The BlinkenLights text was on the wall at a school I attended years ago. I've never been able to forget it. Sean
Mar 29 2007
next sibling parent kris <foo bar.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 
 Frits van Bommel wrote:

 Manfred Nowak wrote:

 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09

For those who don't speak German, and in line with the recent discussion about automatic translation, the Google translation is somewhat readable: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2F87499%2Ffrom%2Frss09&langpair=d %7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (definitely not perfect though)

Hmm. When I translated it, it came back: "Das maschinen ist nicht for gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Sitz back und vatch das spitzensparken."

LOL. The BlinkenLights text was on the wall at a school I attended years ago. I've never been able to forget it.

You too? It was stuck to the window of the computer-lab where I went to school :)
Mar 29 2007
prev sibling parent reply Daniel Keep <daniel.keep.lists gmail.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 Frits van Bommel wrote:
 Manfred Nowak wrote:
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09

For those who don't speak German, and in line with the recent discussion about automatic translation, the Google translation is somewhat readable: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2F87499%2Ffrom%2Frss09&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (definitely not perfect though)

Hmm. When I translated it, it came back: "Das maschinen ist nicht for gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Sitz back und vatch das spitzensparken."

LOL. The BlinkenLights text was on the wall at a school I attended years ago. I've never been able to forget it. Sean

Aah, the wonders of the Intarwebs. That I can have *no* idea what you're going on about, and have the full text inside of 15 seconds thanks to Google and Wikipedia is a miracle. :) -- Daniel -- int getRandomNumber() { return 4; // chosen by fair dice roll. // guaranteed to be random. } http://xkcd.com/ v2sw5+8Yhw5ln4+5pr6OFPma8u6+7Lw4Tm6+7l6+7D i28a2Xs3MSr2e4/6+7t4TNSMb6HTOp5en5g6RAHCP http://hackerkey.com/
Mar 29 2007
parent reply Pragma <ericanderton yahoo.removeme.com> writes:
Daniel Keep wrote:
 
 Sean Kelly wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 Frits van Bommel wrote:
 Manfred Nowak wrote:
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09

discussion about automatic translation, the Google translation is somewhat readable: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2F87499%2Ffrom%2Frss09&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (definitely not perfect though)

"Das maschinen ist nicht for gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Sitz back und vatch das spitzensparken."

years ago. I've never been able to forget it. Sean

Aah, the wonders of the Intarwebs. That I can have *no* idea what you're going on about, and have the full text inside of 15 seconds thanks to Google and Wikipedia is a miracle. :)

Welcome to the shared experience that we used to only get from reading the same books, watching the same movies, listening to the same music and traveling to the same places. Now every "in joke" from the last 30 years or so is archived for posterity. The Internet is rapidly becoming one giant, shared hallucination, from which millions can reflect upon rapidly and easily. And to think this type of activity (peering into a computer screen for hours) used to be labeled as 'anti social'. </philosophical> I was in the same boat. I found it particularly interesting that the wikipedia article on "Blinkenlights" mentions that there's a faux-English equivalent that German-speaking folks use. -- - EricAnderton at yahoo
Mar 29 2007
parent reply Daniel Keep <daniel.keep.lists gmail.com> writes:
Pragma wrote:
 Daniel Keep wrote:
 Sean Kelly wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 Frits van Bommel wrote:
 Manfred Nowak wrote:
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09

discussion about automatic translation, the Google translation is somewhat readable: http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2F87499%2Ffrom%2Frss09&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (definitely not perfect though)

"Das maschinen ist nicht for gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Sitz back und vatch das spitzensparken."

years ago. I've never been able to forget it. Sean

Aah, the wonders of the Intarwebs. That I can have *no* idea what you're going on about, and have the full text inside of 15 seconds thanks to Google and Wikipedia is a miracle. :)

Welcome to the shared experience that we used to only get from reading the same books, watching the same movies, listening to the same music and traveling to the same places. Now every "in joke" from the last 30 years or so is archived for posterity. The Internet is rapidly becoming one giant, shared hallucination, from which millions can reflect upon rapidly and easily. And to think this type of activity (peering into a computer screen for hours) used to be labeled as 'anti social'. </philosophical> I was in the same boat. I found it particularly interesting that the wikipedia article on "Blinkenlights" mentions that there's a faux-English equivalent that German-speaking folks use.

It's like that discussion on vampiric vegetables: I *never* would have known about that if not for the internet (and this NG in particular). My knowledge of the world has expanded vastly since I found out about Wikipedia :P That said, I do think it's still anti-social. I spend pretty much all of my time in my little cave, wrapped in the warm glow of my CRT. Sometimes, even I feel the need to go outside and actually spend time with people. Pity I'm not very good at it; I'd probably be a lot happier if I was :P -- Daniel -- int getRandomNumber() { return 4; // chosen by fair dice roll. // guaranteed to be random. } http://xkcd.com/ v2sw5+8Yhw5ln4+5pr6OFPma8u6+7Lw4Tm6+7l6+7D i28a2Xs3MSr2e4/6+7t4TNSMb6HTOp5en5g6RAHCP http://hackerkey.com/
Mar 29 2007
parent reply Chad J <gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> writes:
Daniel Keep wrote:
 
 It's like that discussion on vampiric vegetables: I *never* would have
 known about that if not for the internet (and this NG in particular).
 My knowledge of the world has expanded vastly since I found out about
 Wikipedia :P
 
 That said, I do think it's still anti-social.  I spend pretty much all
 of my time in my little cave, wrapped in the warm glow of my CRT.
 Sometimes, even I feel the need to go outside and actually spend time
 with people.
 
 Pity I'm not very good at it; I'd probably be a lot happier if I was :P
 
 	-- Daniel
 

Meh, I'd say we are socializing right now. Of course, you could say that if one were to only interact with people through the internet, then that person's skills with body language, facial expressions, verbal communication, and other such up-close communications could become severely diminished due to lack of use. It wouldn't be surprising anyways. Well, the question I ask myself is this: there are obviously human beings communicating here, so how is that a solitary activity? I conclude that it isn't, but exclusively pursuing activities like this may lead to problems like I mentioned above. Also, consider the relationships. The D newsgroup does not seem to be a place for romance, beer buddies, discussions of family life, "those guys I chill with in the Walmart parking lot", war stories, partying, and all of those other potential dimensions to a person's relationships. Rather, I really appreciate this newsgroup for being some kind of awesome aggregation or attractor of really smart people, and a place for intelligent and often professional discussion.
Mar 29 2007
parent reply Carlos Santander <csantander619 gmail.com> writes:
Chad J escribió:
 
 Also, consider the relationships.  The D newsgroup does not seem to be a 
 place for romance, beer buddies, discussions of family life, "those guys 
 I chill with in the Walmart parking lot", war stories, partying, and all 
 of those other potential dimensions to a person's relationships. Rather, 
 I really appreciate this newsgroup for being some kind of awesome 
 aggregation or attractor of really smart people, and a place for 
 intelligent and often professional discussion.

True to an extent. Historically, over here you can talk about almost anything, and people mostly don't mind. -- Carlos Santander Bernal
Mar 30 2007
parent BCS <BCS pathlink.com> writes:
Carlos Santander wrote:
 Chad J escribió:
 
 Also, consider the relationships.  The D newsgroup does not seem to be 
 a place for romance, beer buddies, discussions of family life, "those 
 guys I chill with in the Walmart parking lot", war stories, partying, 
 and all of those other potential dimensions to a person's 
 relationships. Rather, I really appreciate this newsgroup for being 
 some kind of awesome aggregation or attractor of really smart people, 
 and a place for intelligent and often professional discussion.

True to an extent. Historically, over here you can talk about almost anything, and people mostly don't mind.

Like this thread for instance. <G>
Mar 30 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Andrei Alexandrescu (See Website For Email)" <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
Manfred Nowak wrote:
 2_300_000 Euro, two years too late, still not capable to serve the 
 contracted workload and more then ten severe errors in the bug-tracker.
 
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09
 
 Who can show, that choosing D as implementation language would have 
 avoided such a desaster?
 
 -manfred

I wonder what languages they used. Only Oracle back-end and a Web-based interface were revealed. Andrei
Mar 28 2007
parent Serg Kovrov <kovrov no.spam> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu (See Website For Email) wrote:
 I wonder what languages they used. Only Oracle back-end and a Web-based 
 interface were revealed.

A web front-end, Oracle back-end, few millions, few years... I'll be surprised if it wasn't Java. -- serg.
Mar 28 2007
prev sibling parent Georg Wrede <georg nospam.org> writes:
Manfred Nowak wrote:
 2_300_000 Euro, two years too late, still not capable to serve the 
 contracted workload and more then ten severe errors in the bug-tracker.
 
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87499/from/rss09
 
 Who can show, that choosing D as implementation language would have 
 avoided such a desaster?
 
 -manfred

Only having read the referred article, I do suspect that it's all about administrative failures at the contractor. I've been involved in several SW disasters, both as client, independent contractor, employee of contractor, and outside (more or less) post mortem consultant. When you dig deep enough, IMHO, it very seldom is a question of inadequate choice of language or platform. (Although the language and the platform are the ones that usually end up as scapegoats. That way nobody accuses each other, thus avoiding throwing the first stone in a glass house where everyone is guilty and/or a wimp.) Lack of information exchange between the actual programmer(s) and end users, sloppiness of middle management, private agendas, and a general disinterest by the formally responsible parties (COOs, Political Leaders, or top management in general), are the overwhelmingly most prevalent causes of software project disaster -- in my own experience. And in that order. The chosen language would not seem to be the case here. OTOH, in a number of several minor projects (less than 1 man-year), the choice of language actually has made a difference, in my past experience. In those cases, the chosen programming language (or, more to the point, the libraries or the framework) have drawn enough resources to actually suck manpower from management and administration of the project. Middle management's default reaction upon discovering slippage of timetables (i.e. smoothing out, covering up, wishful thinking, and downrigh lying), usually only exacerbates the brewing disaster.
Mar 28 2007