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digitalmars.D.announce - Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?

reply Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com> writes:
Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?

http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html

-manfred
Jan 08 2008
parent reply Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
Manfred Nowak wrote:
 Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?
 
 http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html
 
 -manfred

As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know about PROGRAMMING outside of class (either on an internship, an open-source project, or just messing around and being nerdy), and the other 10% from two of my classes (one high school AP class that focused on data structures, and one class on shell scripting and practical computer skills). I think Java isn't necessarily a bad teaching tool for the reasons they mention, but I think a lower-level imperative language should come first. Java should be introduced after Smalltalk or something to show many of the advantages of safe, happy, VM programming and why object-oriented programming leads to good software design.
Jan 08 2008
next sibling parent reply Adil <adil.baig aidezigns.com> writes:
The link doesnt work

Robert Fraser wrote:
 Manfred Nowak wrote:
 Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?

 http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html

 -manfred

As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know about PROGRAMMING outside of class (either on an internship, an open-source project, or just messing around and being nerdy), and the other 10% from two of my classes (one high school AP class that focused on data structures, and one class on shell scripting and practical computer skills). I think Java isn't necessarily a bad teaching tool for the reasons they mention, but I think a lower-level imperative language should come first. Java should be introduced after Smalltalk or something to show many of the advantages of safe, happy, VM programming and why object-oriented programming leads to good software design.

Jan 09 2008
parent reply Ary Borenszweig <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:
Neither for me. :(

Adil wrote:
 The link doesnt work
 
 Robert Fraser wrote:
 Manfred Nowak wrote:
 Fat Libraries vs. Programming Skills?

 http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/crosstalk/2008/01/0801dewarschonberg.html

 -manfred

As a current CS undergrad, I can say that I learned 90% of what I know about PROGRAMMING outside of class (either on an internship, an open-source project, or just messing around and being nerdy), and the other 10% from two of my classes (one high school AP class that focused on data structures, and one class on shell scripting and practical computer skills). I think Java isn't necessarily a bad teaching tool for the reasons they mention, but I think a lower-level imperative language should come first. Java should be introduced after Smalltalk or something to show many of the advantages of safe, happy, VM programming and why object-oriented programming leads to good software design.


Jan 09 2008
parent reply Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com> writes:
Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

I have rechecked the link. No problems here. -manfred
Jan 09 2008
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com> 
 wrote:
 
 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

I have rechecked the link. No problems here. -manfred

I'm getting a : Network Error (dns_server_failure)

Try: http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html Sean
Jan 09 2008
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:
 
 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak 
 <svv1999 hotmail.com> wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

I have rechecked the link. No problems here. -manfred

Network Error (dns_server_failure)

Try: http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html Sean

Nope. : Network Error (tcp_error) A communication error occurred: ""

It's a military IP address, perhaps your firewall has it blocked? Sean
Jan 09 2008
parent Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:44:22 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:
 
 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:

 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak 
 <svv1999 hotmail.com> wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

I have rechecked the link. No problems here. -manfred

Network Error (dns_server_failure)

Try: http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html Sean

Network Error (tcp_error) A communication error occurred: ""

It's a military IP address, perhaps your firewall has it blocked? Sean

Yes, youre right. Although other .mil addresses seem to be working. Is the article posted somewhere else as well? There's another articles that seems to be along the same lines : http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/12/03.html

Sweet! CS323 ("Systems programming") was a great course. --bb
Jan 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Adil <adil.baig aidezigns.com> writes:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com>  
wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

I have rechecked the link. No problems here. -manfred

I'm getting a : Network Error (dns_server_failure) -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Jan 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Adil <adil.baig aidezigns.com> writes:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:

 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com>  
 wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

I have rechecked the link. No problems here. -manfred

Network Error (dns_server_failure)

Try: http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html Sean

Nope. : Network Error (tcp_error) A communication error occurred: "" -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Jan 09 2008
prev sibling parent Adil <adil.baig aidezigns.com> writes:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:44:22 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:

 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:54:55 +0400, Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> wrote:

 Adil wrote:
 On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:37:40 +0400, Manfred Nowak  
 <svv1999 hotmail.com> wrote:

 Ary Borenszweig wrote

 Neither for me. :(

I have rechecked the link. No problems here. -manfred

Network Error (dns_server_failure)

Try: http://137.241.248.34/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html Sean

Network Error (tcp_error) A communication error occurred: ""

It's a military IP address, perhaps your firewall has it blocked? Sean

Yes, youre right. Although other .mil addresses seem to be working. Is the article posted somewhere else as well? There's another articles that seems to be along the same lines : http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/12/03.html -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Jan 09 2008