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digitalmars.D.announce - "Competitive Advantage with D" is one of the keynotes at C++Now 2017

reply =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=c3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
I will be presenting D as a time-saving tool at C++Now:

   http://cppnow.org/

I have to say it took me a very long time to come up with the title and 
the abstract. How could I sell D to C++ experts? Luckily, I asked Manu 
and among a long list of ideas he said "it's about saving time" and 
"time is money". How can you argue with that? ;)

Do you agree or disagree that D brings competitive advantage? Please let 
me know.

Are you attending the conference?

Ali
Apr 10
next sibling parent reply FreeSlave <freeslave93 gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 06:08:16 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
 I will be presenting D as a time-saving tool at C++Now:

   http://cppnow.org/

 I have to say it took me a very long time to come up with the 
 title and the abstract. How could I sell D to C++ experts? 
 Luckily, I asked Manu and among a long list of ideas he said 
 "it's about saving time" and "time is money". How can you argue 
 with that? ;)

 Do you agree or disagree that D brings competitive advantage? 
 Please let me know.

 Are you attending the conference?

 Ali
D can't compete with C++ until it gets proper dynamic library support on all platforms. As far as I understand there're still problems on Windows.
Apr 10
next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2017-04-11 08:50, FreeSlave wrote:

 D can't compete with C++ until it gets proper dynamic library support on
 all platforms. As far as I understand there're still problems on Windows.
And no official support on macOS. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Apr 11
prev sibling parent Martin Nowak <code+news.digitalmars dawg.eu> writes:
On 04/11/2017 08:50 AM, FreeSlave wrote:
 D can't compete with C++ until it gets proper dynamic library support on
 all platforms. As far as I understand there're still problems on Windows.
Go fix it ;). Yes, we still need to make `export` work to replace `dllimport`/`dllexport`, then we can address the couple of low-level linking and TLS issues. Benjamin Thaut works on this and has a workable solution [¹]. Once this is done, DLL support should be on par with OSX/Linux/FreeBSD. Depending on what you want to do, you can already use D DLL's now, but atm. each DLL comes with it's own copy of the standard library, so different DLLs cannot talk to each other (see [²]). As with any ambitious project, we always want to do more than we have resources for, so things tend to not move as fast as everybody wants them to. -Martin [¹]: [pending PR dlang/DIPs#57](https://github.com/MartinNowak/DIPs/blob/fbad186cf9ac8dce335344e64d3b1d880bb750c0/DIPs/archive/DIP45.md) [²]: [Issue 7020 – Exception thrown across DLL is not caught.](https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7020)
Apr 11
prev sibling next sibling parent reply qznc <qznc web.de> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 06:08:16 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
 I will be presenting D as a time-saving tool at C++Now:

   http://cppnow.org/
Looks like C++Now has two keynotes. One keynote on D and one keynote on Rust. Maybe they should change their name. ;)
Apr 11
parent =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=c3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
On 04/11/2017 02:22 AM, qznc wrote:
 On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 06:08:16 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
 I will be presenting D as a time-saving tool at C++Now:

   http://cppnow.org/
Looks like C++Now has two keynotes. One keynote on D and one keynote on Rust. Maybe they should change their name. ;)
I *think* the third one will be related to Haskell but don't quote me on that. I applaud the organizers for inviting other languages. Their keynote theme for this year is "What can C++ learn from other languages?" Ali
Apr 11
prev sibling next sibling parent qznc <qznc web.de> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 06:08:16 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
 I will be presenting D as a time-saving tool at C++Now:

   http://cppnow.org/

 I have to say it took me a very long time to come up with the 
 title and the abstract. How could I sell D to C++ experts? 
 Luckily, I asked Manu and among a long list of ideas he said 
 "it's about saving time" and "time is money". How can you argue 
 with that? ;)

 Do you agree or disagree that D brings competitive advantage? 
 Please let me know.
Safety (bounds checking, safe, memory safety) is huge for debugging. You can probably steal a lot from Walters DConf Talk. Compilation time, because a quick iteration of edit-compile-test is significant for productivity and really underrated. C++ interop, so you can migrate from C++ to D in small steps and without building a C API bridge. Little things C++ lacks because it is too old: A package manager, a standard string type. Meta programming naturally, but "static if" might trail into discussions about concepts, so it is a little bit dangerous?
Apr 11
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Joseph Rushton Wakeling <joseph.wakeling webdrake.net> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 06:08:16 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
 Do you agree or disagree that D brings competitive advantage? 
 Please let me know.
Agree. There are different tradeoffs, obviously, and it won't suit all use-cases, but the ability to iterate fast through highly performant and provably correct code is very striking. If you manage your compile-time generics well -- i.e. using them to generalize for use cases that you definitely have, rather than premature generalization -- you can get a lot of power out of this that really helps with _effective_ code re-use. Compile time checks, contracts, and easy built-in unittests all make a big help in being able to make changes to code while maintaining confidence in its correctness -- again, making it faster to get things done. And the simple clarity of the syntax really helps compared to, say, C++. It's much easier to write and much easier to read and understand. So, once again, it's easier to move fast.
 Are you attending the conference?
Not C++Now, I'm afraid. But will we see you at DConf? :-)
Apr 11
next sibling parent Patric Dexheimer <patric.dexheimer gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 09:35:39 UTC, Joseph Rushton 
Wakeling wrote:
 And the simple clarity of the syntax really helps compared to, 
 say, C++.  It's much easier to write and much easier to read 
 and understand.  So, once again, it's easier to move fast.
As a D beginner I have to say that this one was very visible for me. I´m able to look at any D project read it and undertand it with ease. Very few times I was able to do it that easy looking on c++ sources.
Apr 11
prev sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?Q?Ali_=c3=87ehreli?= <acehreli yahoo.com> writes:
On 04/11/2017 02:35 AM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
 will we see you at DConf? :-)
Yes. I'm looking forward to it. :) Ali
Apr 11
parent Joseph Rushton Wakeling <joseph.wakeling webdrake.net> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 14:36:18 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
 On 04/11/2017 02:35 AM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
 will we see you at DConf? :-)
Yes. I'm looking forward to it. :)
Great! And, likewise :-)
Apr 11
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce writes:
On Monday, April 10, 2017 23:08:16 Ali ehreli via Digitalmars-d-announce 
wrote:
 I will be presenting D as a time-saving tool at C++Now:

    http://cppnow.org/

 I have to say it took me a very long time to come up with the title and
 the abstract. How could I sell D to C++ experts? Luckily, I asked Manu
 and among a long list of ideas he said "it's about saving time" and
 "time is money". How can you argue with that? ;)

 Do you agree or disagree that D brings competitive advantage? Please let
 me know.
They may yet make it into C++ in some form or another, but the lack of ranges in C++ is one of the things that I find really frustrating when I doing stuff for work. In particular, it's incredibly quick and easy to write parsing code for stuff in D with Phobos, whereas it takes a lot more time and effort to write it in C++. But just in general, I find that putting stuff together in D is faster than using C++. C++ is very powerful, but it's also quite clunky. - Jonathan M Davis
Apr 11
prev sibling parent Guillaume Piolat <first.last gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 06:08:16 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:
 I will be presenting D as a time-saving tool at C++Now:

   http://cppnow.org/

 I have to say it took me a very long time to come up with the 
 title and the abstract. How could I sell D to C++ experts? 
 Luckily, I asked Manu and among a long list of ideas he said 
 "it's about saving time" and "time is money". How can you argue 
 with that? ;)

 Do you agree or disagree that D brings competitive advantage? 
 Please let me know.

 Are you attending the conference?

 Ali
Coming from C++, I think you can talk about compilation times first and the easiness of making a new program with dub (even with dependencies). Because imho library integration and waiting for the compiler are the biggest pain points with C++, actually I'm not sure memory safety will make trench workers switch. Newer C++ almost erased leaks and memory errors if you follow it.
Apr 11