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digitalmars.D - Why all the D hate?

reply igabrieL <NOaercjknjwSPAM yahoo.com> writes:
- GDB developers refsue to apply up to date D patches
- the language shootout included ALL other relevant languages, but hated D.
This is very bad
- D wiki had CSS style competition but someone wanted to keep the boring
looking style. Wiki has sometimes also disk space problem
- no Tango for D 2.0 (trying be fair and equal here. not only phobos!)
- Lots of people constantly complaining D 2.0 situation
- and suggesting feature improvements
- forum trolls
- many good software died. I need ddbi, kate intellisense plugin (not
compatible anymore)
- the forum web interfaces are bad. broken trees of message topics
- when is time for (safe) d on dot net / java?

When this all stops? When is D stable and we can build compilers and editors
and debuggers and bring it back in language shootout (very bad for advertising
D to have no D in the page!)
Aug 24 2010
next sibling parent Pelle <pelle.mansson gmail.com> writes:
On 08/24/2010 02:14 PM, igabrieL wrote:

 - GDB developers refsue to apply up to date D patches
 - the language shootout included ALL other relevant languages, but hated D.
This is very bad
 - D wiki had CSS style competition but someone wanted to keep the boring
looking style. Wiki has sometimes also disk space problem
 - no Tango for D 2.0 (trying be fair and equal here. not only phobos!)
 - Lots of people constantly complaining D 2.0 situation
 - and suggesting feature improvements
 - forum trolls
 - many good software died. I need ddbi, kate intellisense plugin (not
compatible anymore)
 - the forum web interfaces are bad. broken trees of message topics
 - when is time for (safe) d on dot net / java?

 When this all stops? When is D stable and we can build compilers and editors
and debuggers and bring it back in language shootout (very bad for advertising
D to have no D in the page!)


Lack of time and an abundance of trolls, mostly. And angry people from 
C++ land, but they are probably trolls.

A lot of people is looking forward to what D is becoming, at least that 
has been my interpretation of forum discussions.
Aug 24 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply retard <re tard.com.invalid> writes:
Probably answering to a troll, but..


Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:14:37 -0400, igabrieL wrote:


 - GDB developers refsue to apply up to date D patches


This is a copyright issue. GDB is owned by the FSF and you cannot use any 
Digital Mars code in it. You need to assign the copyright to them.



 - the language shootout included ALL other relevant languages, but 


hated D. This is very bad

I'm not sure what happened. It seams the shootout guy did not consider D 
revolutionary enough. It could also be the lack of a 64-bit compiler. He 
runs the tests on both 32 and 64-bit systems. When the 64-bit compiler 
comes out, maybe he has no reasons to leave it out. The benchmark code 
was already there, wasn't it.


 - D wiki had CSS style competition but someone wanted to keep
 the boring looking style. Wiki has sometimes also disk space problem


No idea.


 - no Tango for D 2.0 (trying be fair and equal here. not only phobos!)


Maybe it will ported when D 2.0 is safe to use? First we need to be able 
to compile all examples shown in TDPL.


 - Lots of people constantly complaining D 2.0 situation - and suggesting
 feature improvements


I believe D attracts people who want to leave their hand-mark in the 
language's design. The community members see that the language is in a 
constant 'work in progress' phase so they're dumping truckloads of 
feature suggestions before the language's author.

These suggestions are mostly syntactical improvements taken from other 
languages because the community members rarely have any kind of knowledge 
in the field of programming language theory.



 - forum trolls


Thanks!


 - many good software died. I need ddbi, kate intellisense plugin (not
 compatible anymore)


Please contribute!

- the forum web interfaces are bad. broken trees of

 message topics


Please contribute! Write one in D.


 - when is time for (safe) d on dot net / java?


The SafeD spec needs to be beefed up quite a bit to be any useful for 
compiler writers. I think having a SafeD environemnt on .NET/JVM might be 
an interesting exercise. However, the language doesn't have many 
interesting new features to justify its existence on either platform.


 
 When this all stops? When is D stable and we can build compilers and
 editors and debuggers and bring it back in language shootout (very bad
 for advertising D to have no D in the page!)


Already answered.
Aug 24 2010
next sibling parent reply dsimcha <dsimcha yahoo.com> writes:
== Quote from retard (re tard.com.invalid)'s article

 I believe D attracts people who want to leave their hand-mark in the
 language's design. The community members see that the language is in a
 constant 'work in progress' phase so they're dumping truckloads of
 feature suggestions before the language's author.
 These suggestions are mostly syntactical improvements taken from other
 languages because the community members rarely have any kind of knowledge
 in the field of programming language theory.


IMHO this is a good thing as long as the language designer has enough of a
backbone to know when to say no to things.  (Except for the  property debacle
I'd
say Walter is such a language designer.)  Maybe it's just my engineering
background creeping in (like Walter, I have very little formal CS education and
my
degree is in engineering) but I **don't want** a language designed heavily from
a
theoretical perspective.  I want a language that will make it easy for me to
write
efficient, readable, safe, terse, flexible and DRY code, not one that showcases
cutting edge theoretical comp sci achievements.  In fact the features of D that
seem most theoretically grounded (the pure/nothrow/const/shared type system
stuff)
are my least favorite features of the language, largely because they interact so
poorly with generic programming, which is more of a practical feature IMHO.


 The SafeD spec needs to be beefed up quite a bit to be any useful for
 compiler writers.


Agreed.  The implementation needs improvement as well.  I refuse to take SafeD
at
all seriously until I can at least use it with std.getopt.  I refuse to take it
very seriously until it integrates well with generic programming.


 I think having a SafeD environemnt on .NET/JVM might be
 an interesting exercise. However, the language doesn't have many
 interesting new features to justify its existence on either platform.


Don't D's compile-time introspection and generic programming abilities count for

the
most mainstream language with a comparable level of compile time metaprogramming
ability.
Aug 24 2010
next sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:44:38 -0400, dsimcha <dsimcha yahoo.com> wrote:


 == Quote from retard (re tard.com.invalid)'s article

 I believe D attracts people who want to leave their hand-mark in the
 language's design. The community members see that the language is in a
 constant 'work in progress' phase so they're dumping truckloads of
 feature suggestions before the language's author.
 These suggestions are mostly syntactical improvements taken from other
 languages because the community members rarely have any kind of  
 knowledge
 in the field of programming language theory.


 IMHO this is a good thing as long as the language designer has enough of  
 a
 backbone to know when to say no to things.  (Except for the  property  
 debacle I'd
 say Walter is such a language designer.)


Why all the  property hate?  ;)

-Steve
Aug 24 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
dsimcha wrote:

 I think having a SafeD environemnt on .NET/JVM might be
 an interesting exercise. However, the language doesn't have many
 interesting new features to justify its existence on either platform.


 
 Don't D's compile-time introspection and generic programming abilities count
for

the
 most mainstream language with a comparable level of compile time
metaprogramming
 ability.


What we may be seeing here is an effect I noticed decades ago with the Zortech 
compiler. Let's say you have the Zortech compiler, and BrandX compiler. The 
feature lists of the two are:

Zortech: A B C M N O S T U

BrandX:  A B C D M N O

Reviewer concludes that Zortech lacks features because it doesn't do D.
Reviewer 
never notices S T U because he's used to BrandX and so obviously S T U are not 
relevant.

It's a very human thing. For example, back in 1995, a friend of mine would 
interview engineers. He'd show them a cell phone, and ask them how they would 
improve it. He'd get answers that were simple refinements of making phone
calls. 
Nobody suggested adding a calculator, calendar, texting, email, music playing,
a 
camera, etc. It simply never occurred to them because people thought of a phone 
as a phone, nothing more.

Back in the 80's, I knew about OOP but saw no value in it. I'd never used it, 
and had no idea how to. It certainly wasn't on any of my "it would be nice 
if..." desires for a programming language feature.
Aug 24 2010
next sibling parent dsimcha <dsimcha yahoo.com> writes:
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound2 digitalmars.com)'s article

 dsimcha wrote:

 I think having a SafeD environemnt on .NET/JVM might be
 an interesting exercise. However, the language doesn't have many
 interesting new features to justify its existence on either platform.


 Don't D's compile-time introspection and generic programming abilities count
for

the
 most mainstream language with a comparable level of compile time
metaprogramming
 ability.


 What we may be seeing here is an effect I noticed decades ago with the Zortech
 compiler. Let's say you have the Zortech compiler, and BrandX compiler. The
 feature lists of the two are:
 Zortech: A B C M N O S T U
 BrandX:  A B C D M N O
 Reviewer concludes that Zortech lacks features because it doesn't do D.
Reviewer
 never notices S T U because he's used to BrandX and so obviously S T U are not
 relevant.
 It's a very human thing. For example, back in 1995, a friend of mine would
 interview engineers. He'd show them a cell phone, and ask them how they would
 improve it. He'd get answers that were simple refinements of making phone
calls.
 Nobody suggested adding a calculator, calendar, texting, email, music playing,
a
 camera, etc. It simply never occurred to them because people thought of a phone
 as a phone, nothing more.
 Back in the 80's, I knew about OOP but saw no value in it. I'd never used it,
 and had no idea how to. It certainly wasn't on any of my "it would be nice
 if..." desires for a programming language feature.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion
Aug 24 2010
prev sibling parent reply "Gour D." <gour atmarama.net> writes:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:55:43 -0700

 "Walter" =3D=3D Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:












Walter> What we may be seeing here is an effect I noticed decades ago
Walter> with the Zortech compiler. Let's say you have the Zortech
Walter> compiler, and BrandX compiler.=20

Heh...I remember Zortech coming with tons of nicely printed
documentation in grey hardbox...That was the golden are of docs. ;)


Sincerely,
Gour

--=20

Gour  | Hlapicina, Croatia  | GPG key: CDBF17CA
----------------------------------------------------------------
Oct 08 2010
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Gour D. wrote:

 Heh...I remember Zortech coming with tons of nicely printed
 documentation in grey hardbox...That was the golden are of docs. ;)


When the doc books got to be a yard thick, fortunately CD-ROMs arrived just in
time!
Oct 09 2010
prev sibling parent reply retard <re tard.com.invalid> writes:
Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:44:38 +0000, dsimcha wrote:


 I think having a SafeD environemnt on .NET/JVM might be an interesting
 exercise. However, the language doesn't have many interesting new
 features to justify its existence on either platform.


 
 Don't D's compile-time introspection and generic programming abilities

 Java, and AFAIK D is the most mainstream language with a comparable
 level of compile time metaprogramming ability.


Those are quite expressive features. However, without the close to metal 

surely help when cleaning up useless boilerplate, but they aren't enough. 

modern virtual machine and people seem to favor (J)Ruby and Python these 
days.
Aug 24 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"retard" <re tard.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:i516du$v0k$2 digitalmars.com...

 Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:44:38 +0000, dsimcha wrote:


 I think having a SafeD environemnt on .NET/JVM might be an interesting
 exercise. However, the language doesn't have many interesting new
 features to justify its existence on either platform.


 Don't D's compile-time introspection and generic programming abilities

 Java, and AFAIK D is the most mainstream language with a comparable
 level of compile time metaprogramming ability.


 Those are quite expressive features. However, without the close to metal



So if you're writing something that needs to run on .NET, and you have to 
choose between [what you see as] two nearly identical languages, but one has 
good generic programming and the other just has generics, and they're 
ridiculously gimped generics at that, you'd rather use the latter?
Aug 24 2010
parent reply retard <re tard.com.invalid> writes:
Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:37:52 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:


 "retard" <re tard.com.invalid> wrote in message
 news:i516du$v0k$2 digitalmars.com...

 Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:44:38 +0000, dsimcha wrote:


 I think having a SafeD environemnt on .NET/JVM might be an
 interesting exercise. However, the language doesn't have many
 interesting new features to justify its existence on either platform.


 Don't D's compile-time introspection and generic programming abilities

 Java, and AFAIK D is the most mainstream language with a comparable
 level of compile time metaprogramming ability.


 Those are quite expressive features. However, without the close to



 
 So if you're writing something that needs to run on .NET, and you have
 to choose between [what you see as] two nearly identical languages, but
 one has good generic programming and the other just has generics, and
 they're ridiculously gimped generics at that, you'd rather use the
 latter?



see the list somewhere - something for the friends of dynamic typing, 
LINQ, lambda expressions etc. And it's not broken / a moving target 99% 

days.
Aug 24 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"retard" <re tard.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:i51963$v0k$3 digitalmars.com...


 days.


Now, see that's something that always bugs the hell out of me. Any 
programmer who can code in, say imperative or OO style in one language and 
*can't* pick up another imperative or OO language with ease is incompetent. 
Period. But no one outside of (real) programmers ever seems to realize that. 
(One of the reasons I despise anyone who works anywhere near HR.)

I don't always agree with Joel Spolsky (though I often do), but one thing I 
*absolutely* agree with him on is this:

"The recruiters-who-use-grep, by the way, are ridiculed here, and for good 
reason. I have never met anyone who can do Scheme, Haskell, and C pointers 
who can't pick up Java in two days, and create better Java code than people 
with five years of experience in Java, but try explaining that to the 
average HR drone."

- The Perils of JavaSchools: 
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html

Incidentally, that's also why I think all of those managers out there who 
choose PHP because "there are a lot of PHP programmers" are complete fucking 
morons.
Aug 24 2010
parent reply retard <re tard.com.invalid> writes:
Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:29:01 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:


 "retard" <re tard.com.invalid> wrote in message
 news:i51963$v0k$3 digitalmars.com...




 
 Now, see that's something that always bugs the hell out of me. Any
 programmer who can code in, say imperative or OO style in one language
 and *can't* pick up another imperative or OO language with ease is
 incompetent. Period. But no one outside of (real) programmers ever seems
 to realize that. (One of the reasons I despise anyone who works anywhere
 near HR.)
 
 I don't always agree with Joel Spolsky (though I often do), but one
 thing I *absolutely* agree with him on is this:
 
 "The recruiters-who-use-grep, by the way, are ridiculed here, and for
 good reason. I have never met anyone who can do Scheme, Haskell, and C
 pointers who can't pick up Java in two days, and create better Java code
 than people with five years of experience in Java, but try explaining
 that to the average HR drone."
 
 - The Perils of JavaSchools:
 http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html
 
 Incidentally, that's also why I think all of those managers out there
 who choose PHP because "there are a lot of PHP programmers" are complete
 fucking morons.



general: build tools, unit testing tools, document generators, coding 
conventions, web frameworks, best utility libraries, and so on. Do you 
think commercial application development always starts from scratch? Even 
if you were Joel Spolsky, you would need few days or weeks to catch up 
with the more experienced team members. Unnecessary studying isn't 
acceptable when you need to produce a prototype in a week and the whole 
project only lasts for 6 months.
Aug 24 2010
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"retard" <re tard.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:i51b74$v0k$4 digitalmars.com...

 Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:29:01 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:


 "retard" <re tard.com.invalid> wrote in message
 news:i51963$v0k$3 digitalmars.com...




 Now, see that's something that always bugs the hell out of me. Any
 programmer who can code in, say imperative or OO style in one language
 and *can't* pick up another imperative or OO language with ease is
 incompetent. Period. But no one outside of (real) programmers ever seems
 to realize that. (One of the reasons I despise anyone who works anywhere
 near HR.)

 I don't always agree with Joel Spolsky (though I often do), but one
 thing I *absolutely* agree with him on is this:

 "The recruiters-who-use-grep, by the way, are ridiculed here, and for
 good reason. I have never met anyone who can do Scheme, Haskell, and C
 pointers who can't pick up Java in two days, and create better Java code
 than people with five years of experience in Java, but try explaining
 that to the average HR drone."

 - The Perils of JavaSchools:
 http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ThePerilsofJavaSchools.html

 Incidentally, that's also why I think all of those managers out there
 who choose PHP because "there are a lot of PHP programmers" are complete
 fucking morons.



 general: build tools, unit testing tools, document generators, coding
 conventions, web frameworks, best utility libraries, and so on. Do you
 think commercial application development always starts from scratch? Even
 if you were Joel Spolsky, you would need few days or weeks to catch up
 with the more experienced team members. Unnecessary studying isn't
 acceptable when you need to produce a prototype in a week and the whole
 project only lasts for 6 months.


There's always a learning/ramp-up period anyway when bringing on new team 
member. They have to get acclimated to the existing codebase and how the 
group has everything set up and policies/procedures, etc, all of which will 
vary from company to company even with the same langauge. When I took my 
first web development job, it was an ASP house (this was before ASP.NET), 
and I had never even looked at a line of ASP in my life, but learning it was 
trivial, especially compared to picking up the company-specific stuff.

And if a manager goes hiring programmers when time's already tight, then the 
manager is an idiot because getting the new people up-to-speed is only going 
to cause more delay even if the language is the same (and again, the time to 
pick up the language is small compared to the other stuff). That's been 
shown time and time again.
Aug 24 2010
parent retard <re tard.com.invalid> writes:
Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:21:56 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote:


 And if a manager goes hiring programmers when time's already tight, then
 the manager is an idiot because getting the new people up-to-speed is
 only going to cause more delay even if the language is the same (and
 again, the time to pick up the language is small compared to the other
 stuff). That's been shown time and time again.


It's a bit different where I've worked. Most contracts were really short. 
You participate in about 3 to 12 smaller web service projects during the 
year. We rarely hired any juniors, you had to have 5+ years of real life 
commercial experience with typical frameworks (Stripes, Spring, 
Hibernate, Memcached, ASP.Net, Rails, Django, Symfony, jQuery, Maven, 
Apache configuration, SVN, Git, GCC, etc.). Sometimes a single project 
took only couple of months - a prototype milestone had a really tight 
schedule.
Aug 24 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Leandro Lucarella <luca llucax.com.ar> writes:
retard, el 24 de agosto a las 15:36 me escribiste:

 Probably answering to a troll, but..
 
 
 Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:14:37 -0400, igabrieL wrote:
 

 - GDB developers refsue to apply up to date D patches


 
 This is a copyright issue. GDB is owned by the FSF and you cannot use any 
 Digital Mars code in it. You need to assign the copyright to them.


That's true, but I don't know where the original affirmation come from,
who is trying to push patches to GDB now? I followed very closely the
inclusion of D support patches in GDB and it took a lot of time to merge
them because nobody cared to do it. When someone tried to do it, he just
did (it took some time because of the paperwork needed, because as
retard say, you have to assign the copyright to the FSF to include big
changes, as D support patches was).


-- 
Leandro Lucarella (AKA luca)                     http://llucax.com.ar/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GPG Key: 5F5A8D05 (F8CD F9A7 BF00 5431 4145  104C 949E BFB6 5F5A 8D05)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TIGRE SE COMIO A EMPLEADO DE CIRCO: DETUVIERON A DUEÑO Y DOMADOR
	-- Crónica TV
Aug 24 2010
parent Brad Roberts <braddr slice-2.puremagic.com> writes:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Leandro Lucarella wrote:


 retard, el 24 de agosto a las 15:36 me escribiste:

 Probably answering to a troll, but..
 
 
 Tue, 24 Aug 2010 08:14:37 -0400, igabrieL wrote:
 

 - GDB developers refsue to apply up to date D patches


 
 This is a copyright issue. GDB is owned by the FSF and you cannot use any 
 Digital Mars code in it. You need to assign the copyright to them.


 
 That's true, but I don't know where the original affirmation come from,
 who is trying to push patches to GDB now? I followed very closely the
 inclusion of D support patches in GDB and it took a lot of time to merge
 them because nobody cared to do it. When someone tried to do it, he just
 did (it took some time because of the paperwork needed, because as
 retard say, you have to assign the copyright to the FSF to include big
 changes, as D support patches was).
 


I also have evidence that follow up patches to fix simple bugs aren't hard 
to get submitted to GDB.  Mine was small enough to not need a copyright 
assignment form and only took a week or two -- mostly just that I didn't 
ping anyone after sending it to the patch mailing list.

Later,
Brad
Aug 24 2010
prev sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"retard" <re tard.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:i50ou2$v0k$1 digitalmars.com...

 I think having a SafeD environemnt on .NET/JVM might be
 an interesting exercise. However, the language doesn't have many
 interesting new features to justify its existence on either platform.


Aside from being a questionable statement, it's not particularly important 
either, since being able run the same code on multiple platforms IS often a 
significant feature. That's one of the reasons I'm using Haxe for a 
Flash/PHP project.
Aug 24 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Norbert Nemec <Norbert Nemec-online.de> writes:
On 24/08/10 13:14, igabrieL wrote:

 - the language shootout included ALL other relevant languages, but hated D.
This is very bad


I recall that this was due to the lack of 64bit support and the lack of 
a Debian package that would work out of the box. The latter problem may 
be solved by now, but the site maintainer decided to wait for 64bit DMD 
to come out.


 - Lots of people constantly complaining D 2.0 situation
 - and suggesting feature improvements


I view the latter point a clear sign of *love* not hate. The language is 
great and inspiring many ideas. People see that many good ideas have 
been picked up through discussion so they throw in their ideas as well. 
I see it as one big bonus of the D community that there is this forum in 
which newcomers and experts alike discuss their ideas freely and 
actually make a direct impact on the development.



 When this all stops? When is D stable and we can build compilers and editors
and debuggers and bring it back in language shootout (very bad for advertising
D to have no D in the page!)


I doubt it will "stop" at any fixed point in time, but the situation has 
been improving gradually and I am optimistic that it will continue to do so.
Aug 24 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
igabrieL wrote:

 - and suggesting feature improvements 


[...]


 When is D stable


It cannot be both stable and adding in endless new features.
Aug 24 2010
parent reply Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> writes:
Walter Bright Wrote:


 igabrieL wrote:

 - and suggesting feature improvements 


 
 [...]
 

 When is D stable


 
 It cannot be both stable and adding in endless new features.


So then Walter, when will you say "enough is enough"?

Just paying my 3 monthly visit to the newsgroup. I see nothing much has changed.

Steve
Aug 26 2010
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Steve Teale wrote:

 Walter Bright Wrote:
 

 igabrieL wrote:

 - and suggesting feature improvements 


 [...]


 When is D stable


 It cannot be both stable and adding in endless new features.


 
 So then Walter, when will you say "enough is enough"?


Well, we decided to stop adding features to D2 with the appearance of TDPL, and 
instead concentrate on toolchain issues.


 Just paying my 3 monthly visit to the newsgroup. I see nothing much has
changed.


It's good to see you around here!
Aug 26 2010
parent Era Scarecrow <rtcvb32 yahoo.com> writes:
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound2 digitalmars.com)'s article

 Steve Teale wrote:

 Walter Bright Wrote:


 igabrieL wrote:

 - and suggesting feature improvements


 [...]


 When is D stable


 It cannot be both stable and adding in endless new features.


 So then Walter, when will you say "enough is enough"?


 Well, we decided to stop adding features to D2 with the appearance of TDPL, and
 instead concentrate on toolchain issues.


  IMO features have to meet a few criteria. But walter has much more experience
than me, he'll know what to include in future versions and what to avoid. So
here's my two-bits

  1) A problem that repeatedly comes forward, and it would be easier for the
compiler to do the work instead, or even make it all easier. (example:
Associative
arrays)
  2) Shouldn't make the language more complex by adding it (Or if it does, it's
invisible when implemented, say changing how foreach internally works)
  3) Doesn't break previous code to implement. (Not including opBinary, I think
that's a great move!)
  4) Is easy to grasp or explain; if it's a keyword, something suitable you can
associate with it.
  5) Doesn't add ugly syntax or make parsing difficult. (templates in C++,java
<>,
and the ugly global operator ::)
Aug 26 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"igabrieL" <NOaercjknjwSPAM yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:i50d3d$d17$1 digitalmars.com...

 - no Tango for D 2.0 (trying be fair and equal here. not only phobos!)


http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/forums/topic/883
Aug 24 2010
prev sibling parent reply Jordi <jordi rovira.cat> writes:
Hey, there is a lot of D love too.

After a year of following this community I personally think all this 
confrontation if very well handled and is resulting in generally good 
improvements. It is definetly much better than no confrontation at all.

And there is a lot of people who likes D very much but doesn't usually 
come here to post a useless message saying "D is great" (despite 
sometimes we do).

I am happy with D2, my project already surpasses de 200K non-blank lines 
of code, and i am even considering going commercial with it.

D will (maybe slowly) gain relevance for this single brief resaon:
D MAKES SENSE

Regards,

j.


On 08/24/2010 09:14 PM, igabrieL wrote:

 - GDB developers refsue to apply up to date D patches
 - the language shootout included ALL other relevant languages, but hated D.
This is very bad
 - D wiki had CSS style competition but someone wanted to keep the boring
looking style. Wiki has sometimes also disk space problem
 - no Tango for D 2.0 (trying be fair and equal here. not only phobos!)
 - Lots of people constantly complaining D 2.0 situation
 - and suggesting feature improvements
 - forum trolls
 - many good software died. I need ddbi, kate intellisense plugin (not
compatible anymore)
 - the forum web interfaces are bad. broken trees of message topics
 - when is time for (safe) d on dot net / java?

 When this all stops? When is D stable and we can build compilers and editors
and debuggers and bring it back in language shootout (very bad for advertising
D to have no D in the page!)
Oct 09 2010
parent reply Jordi <jordi rovira.cat> writes:
On 10/10/2010 12:44 PM, Jordi wrote:


 I am happy with D2, my project already surpasses de 200K non-blank lines
 of code, and i am even considering going commercial with it.


Sorry, shameful mistake with my shell script skills. It is 50K lines :|

j.
Oct 09 2010
parent reply Juanjo Alvarez <fake fakeemail.com> writes:
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:04:57 +0900, Jordi <jordi rovira.cat> wrote:

 Sorry, shameful mistake with my shell script skills. It is 50K 


lines :|

Mine is 4000 lines, having started to learn D from Andrei's book 
three weeks ago. D is not perfect but for me is perfect enough and 
will no doubt be my favorite general purpose language once we have 
and stable version.
Oct 09 2010
parent Justin Johansson <no spam.com> writes:
On 10/10/2010 5:24 PM, Juanjo Alvarez wrote:

 On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:04:57 +0900, Jordi <jordi rovira.cat> wrote:

 Sorry, shameful mistake with my shell script skills. It is 50K


 lines :|

 Mine is 4000 lines, having started to learn D from Andrei's book three
 weeks ago. D is not perfect but for me is perfect enough and will no
 doubt be my favorite general purpose language once we have and stable
 version.


Hang in there guys;  I am hopeful too despite the fact that I often post
as Devil's Advocate for the negative.

Cheers
Justin Johansson
Oct 10 2010