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digitalmars.D - Welcome to the Jungle (article about the future of parallel computing)

reply Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Hi,

I just saw a follow up article from Herb Sutter about
the future of parallel computing.

http://herbsutter.com/welcome-to-the-jungle/

Very interesting read. Excuse me if someone has already
posted it.

--
Paulo
Jan 06 2012
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org> wrote in message 
news:je7vvh$253f$1 digitalmars.com...
 Hi,

 I just saw a follow up article from Herb Sutter about
 the future of parallel computing.

 http://herbsutter.com/welcome-to-the-jungle/

 Very interesting read. Excuse me if someone has already
 posted it.

It is interesting...But I have to say: The *one* thing that really bugs me about it is that it seems to be written under the assumption that the highest-end hardware that's *sitting around on store shelves* is the only hardware that's relevant, or even exists. It makes the whole thing feel uncomfortably ivory-tower when reading through it. Even a simple *acknowledgment* of the distinction would have made a huge difference. But the way it's written, it makes him sound like (and for all I know, he may very well not be like this at all), but it makes him sound like "CliffyB", or Tim Sweeny, or some other such graphics-whore, "in bed with MS, NVidia and ATI" jackass over at Epic (Epic used to actually be respectable back in the "MegaGames" days...).
Jan 06 2012
next sibling parent reply Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Am 07.01.2012 08:08, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:
 "Paulo Pinto"<pjmlp progtools.org>  wrote in message
 news:je7vvh$253f$1 digitalmars.com...
 Hi,

 I just saw a follow up article from Herb Sutter about
 the future of parallel computing.

 http://herbsutter.com/welcome-to-the-jungle/

 Very interesting read. Excuse me if someone has already
 posted it.

It is interesting...But I have to say: The *one* thing that really bugs me about it is that it seems to be written under the assumption that the highest-end hardware that's *sitting around on store shelves* is the only hardware that's relevant, or even exists. It makes the whole thing feel uncomfortably ivory-tower when reading through it. Even a simple *acknowledgment* of the distinction would have made a huge difference. But the way it's written, it makes him sound like (and for all I know, he may very well not be like this at all), but it makes him sound like "CliffyB", or Tim Sweeny, or some other such graphics-whore, "in bed with MS, NVidia and ATI" jackass over at Epic (Epic used to actually be respectable back in the "MegaGames" days...).

But he is in a way right. Even the small embedded systems are slowly becoming multicore. The most recent ARM processors are now multicore. As an example of a multicore PIC, see the Parallax Propeller processor, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Propeller. Sure there will still be lots of scenarios where this won't be the case, like there are still 8 bit PIC processors being deployed in Assembly, but they are niche products. The vast majority of the developers will have the reality he describes. -- Paulo
Jan 07 2012
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org> wrote in message 
news:je92bp$t68$1 digitalmars.com...
 But he is in a way right.

 Even the small embedded systems are slowly becoming multicore. The most 
 recent ARM processors are now multicore.

Yes, because after all, who *doesn't* need to decode genomes on their telephone? ;)
 As an example of a multicore PIC, see the Parallax Propeller processor,
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_Propeller.

Warning to all: The following two paragraphs may sound very strange considering they're coming from me... The Propeller's awesome. Brilliant little chip. Not exactly a big fan of SPIN or the IDE, though (Personally, I would just as soon have spared the silicon used to embed that SPIN interpreter into the chip, or maybe repurposed it somehow). And the video output capabilities could be a little bit better. But those niggles aside, I admit, I'm a big fan of the Propeller. And the whole "multi-core microcontroller", believe it or not, is probably the main reason why. It's a cheap little thing and in terms of power, I'd estimate it to be...as if you had a device somewhere between an NES or SNES, but made the A/V circuitry almost entirely re-programmable. I was actually lucky enough to have the opportunity to play with a Propeller on an early revision of the Hydra board ( www.xgamestation.com ) before either of their official releases. Still have the board right here on my desk, too: https://www.semitwist.com/download/img/Hydra-v0.1.jpg Although as you can see it's gathered...ummm...more than a little bit of dust since I've been drowning in the web world for so long now :/ (Actually, I'm kind of embarrassed by all the dust on it...I really should have covered it long ago...) I wrote the sound and eeprom drivers that come with the Hydra, and three of the demos: Hydra Rally, Deep Cavern 3D, and Piano Demo. (They're shown in a random rotation on the xgamestation homepage, reload the page a few times to see them all). It was a lot of exhausting work, but I had an absolute blast developing them. I love working with systems where you have full control and understanding over every single byte - especially when it's to the end of making games. Unfortunately I never really get the chance for such things anymore.
 Sure there will still be lots of scenarios where this won't be the case,
 like there are still 8 bit PIC processors being deployed in Assembly, but 
 they are niche products. The vast majority of the developers will have the 
 reality he describes.

 --
 Paulo 

Jan 07 2012
parent reply Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Hi,

so you are also following Andre's attemps to revive the
old homebrew developer feeling. :)

I also miss those days. I grew up with the ZX Spectrum,
doing some BASIC and Z80 stuff, then most of my friends
moved up to the Amiga 500 and I eventually got a PC,
since my dad was the opinion the PC would be the future.

Anyway, I had lots of fun doing x86 assembly programming
with some Turbo Pascal and eventually C. Then quite a few
languages after that.

Nowadays I develop business software mostly in JVM and .NET
languages, running in clustered environments. With development
teams scattered around the globe.

Doing low level programming and graphics related stuff is
now only a hobby, when real life permits to do so. Until the
day I manage to change area.

Wow, now I am a bit nostaligic

--
Paulo


Am 07.01.2012 11:19, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:
 Warning to all: The following two paragraphs may sound very strange
 considering they're coming from me...

 The Propeller's awesome. Brilliant little chip. Not exactly a big fan of
 SPIN or the IDE, though (Personally, I would just as soon have spared the
 silicon used to embed that SPIN interpreter into the chip, or maybe
 repurposed it somehow). And the video output capabilities could be a little
 bit better. But those niggles aside, I admit, I'm a big fan of the
 Propeller. And the whole "multi-core microcontroller", believe it or not, is
 probably the main reason why. It's a cheap little thing and in terms of
 power, I'd estimate it to be...as if you had a device somewhere between an
 NES or SNES, but made the A/V circuitry almost entirely re-programmable.

 I was actually lucky enough to have the opportunity to play with a Propeller
 on an early revision of the Hydra board ( www.xgamestation.com ) before
 either of their official releases. Still have the board right here on my
 desk, too:  https://www.semitwist.com/download/img/Hydra-v0.1.jpg  Although
 as you can see it's gathered...ummm...more than a little bit of dust since
 I've been drowning in the web world for so long now :/  (Actually, I'm kind
 of embarrassed by all the dust on it...I really should have covered it long
 ago...) I wrote the sound and eeprom drivers that come with the Hydra, and
 three of the demos: Hydra Rally, Deep Cavern 3D, and Piano Demo. (They're
 shown in a random rotation on the xgamestation homepage, reload the page a
 few times to see them all). It was a lot of exhausting work, but I had an
 absolute blast developing them. I love working with systems where you have
 full control and understanding over every single byte - especially when it's
 to the end of making games. Unfortunately I never really get the chance for
 such things anymore.

Jan 07 2012
parent reply "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org> wrote in message 
news:je9e3t$1g3l$1 digitalmars.com...
 Hi,

 so you are also following Andre's attemps to revive the
 old homebrew developer feeling. :)

Yea, I grew up on that sort of thing. And I'd been working with Andre' (LaMothe, of course) since well before he started doing hardware kits. His old DOS-based game dev books are what moved me from various forms of BASIC into finally really grokking things like C, pointers and low-level programming (which I had only "kind of" understood before). Then I just happened to end up in contact with him through a mutual aquaintence (via AOL 1.x ;) heh, yea, way back then). Andre' was starting up a budget-game publishing company and was looking for a breakout clone, which I happened to already be working on. So there was that, and then he started some gamedev forums that I was a regular on for years. Then Hasbro Interactive fucked everything up with unsubstantiated litigation and typical corporate "drown in legal fees" tactics, and then he got into doing hardware kits like he's doing now. IMO, Indie gamedev is really the only way to go if you want to make games. All the way until college I was convinced I wanted to work for a major game company. Then I started learning more about the nature of the industry at the time (around 2000-2001), and that was also the point where the industry itself was starting its slow descent into becoming into the Hollywood-wannabe cesspool it mostly is today. ("Fuck actual gaming, we're gonna be cinematic storytellers!" Too many Pixar rejects in the industry now, I guess...Not to mention all the "packaged-goods" managers...)
 I also miss those days. I grew up with the ZX Spectrum,
 doing some BASIC and Z80 stuff, then most of my friends
 moved up to the Amiga 500 and I eventually got a PC,
 since my dad was the opinion the PC would be the future.

For me, it was Apple IIc and ApplesoftBASIC (I'm normally critical of apple products, especially after having spent a year or so with OSX, but the Apple II line is the one major exception for me. I guess you could say Woz was the *real* Apple for me). Plus a small amount of Logo and machine code on the machine. Then I got a [Packard Bell, remember them?] 486DX2 and moved to QBASIC, had an enormous amount of fun with that. (IIRC, Amiga was pretty much out of the picture by then, and I hadn't even heard of it. Sometimes now I feel like I really missed out on it.) Tinkered a bit with C/C++, but didn't quite "get it". Then did VB 3 (It came on a bunch of floppies and was for Win3 :) ). Then I found Andre's DOS books (this was still *just* before DirectX, or at least around the time of what was then called the "Game SDK"). Was into that for years, and somehow managed to get sucked into web dev, and these days all my free time goes to D-related projects (mostly things that will directly or indirectly make my webdev work slightly less painful).
 Anyway, I had lots of fun doing x86 assembly programming
 with some Turbo Pascal and eventually C. Then quite a few
 languages after that.

 Nowadays I develop business software mostly in JVM and .NET
 languages, running in clustered environments. With development
 teams scattered around the globe.

 Doing low level programming and graphics related stuff is
 now only a hobby, when real life permits to do so. Until the
 day I manage to change area.

 Wow, now I am a bit nostaligic

Jan 07 2012
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Brad Anderson" <eco gnuk.net> wrote in message 
news:mailman.185.1325982241.16222.digitalmars-d puremagic.com...
 On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org> wrote in message
 news:je9e3t$1g3l$1 digitalmars.com...
 Hi,

 so you are also following Andre's attemps to revive the
 old homebrew developer feeling. :)

Yea, I grew up on that sort of thing. And I'd been working with Andre' (LaMothe, of course) since well before he started doing hardware kits. His old DOS-based game dev books are what moved me from various forms of BASIC into finally really grokking things like C, pointers and low-level programming (which I had only "kind of" understood before). Then I just happened to end up in contact with him through a mutual aquaintence (via AOL 1.x ;) heh, yea, way back then). Andre' was starting up a budget-game publishing company and was looking for a breakout clone, which I happened to already be working on. So there was that, and then he started some gamedev forums that I was a regular on for years. Then Hasbro Interactive fucked everything up with unsubstantiated litigation and typical corporate "drown in legal fees" tactics, and then he got into doing hardware kits like he's doing now.

I was a regular on there too. Small world.

Heh, cool. I'm "Abscissa" over there (although I haven't posted or even lurked much in years). I was one of the two-digit user numbers :)
Jan 07 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On 1/8/2012 9:23 AM, Brad Anderson wrote:
 On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

     "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org <mailto:pjmlp progtools.org>>
     wrote in message
     news:je9e3t$1g3l$1 digitalmars.com...
      > Hi,
      >
      > so you are also following Andre's attemps to revive the
      > old homebrew developer feeling. :)
      >

     Yea, I grew up on that sort of thing. And I'd been working with Andre'
     (LaMothe, of course) since well before he started doing hardware
     kits. His
     old DOS-based game dev books are what moved me from various forms of
     BASIC
     into finally really grokking things like C, pointers and low-level
     programming (which I had only "kind of" understood before). Then I just
     happened to end up in contact with him through a mutual aquaintence
     (via AOL
     1.x ;) heh, yea, way back then). Andre' was starting up a budget-game
     publishing company and was looking for a breakout clone, which I
     happened to
     already be working on. So there was that, and then he started some
     gamedev
     forums that I was a regular on for years. Then Hasbro Interactive fucked
     everything up with unsubstantiated litigation and typical corporate
     "drown
     in legal fees" tactics, and then he got into doing hardware kits
     like he's
     doing now.


 I was a regular on there too.  Small world.

I was a regular lurker for a while. Until around the time of the Hasbro suit. When I saw 'Abscissa' posting over at the DSource forums, and later connected it with Nick, I thought it likely to be the same Abscissa from the XtremeGames boards. That was a long time ago.
Jan 07 2012
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Mike Parker" <aldacron gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:jeatr8$tq0$1 digitalmars.com...
 I was a regular lurker for a while. Until around the time of the Hasbro 
 suit. When I saw 'Abscissa' posting over at the DSource forums, and later 
 connected it with Nick, I thought it likely to be the same Abscissa from 
 the XtremeGames boards. That was a long time ago.

Yup, both of those "Abscissa"s are me. I'm also "Abscissa" on github and bitbucket (although on bitbucket I'm usually "Abscissa256" because I forgot that their existing "Abscissa" account was an old one of mine ;) )...Umm "Abscissa256" on linuxquestions.org...Sometimes I go by "Nitrode", like on Wikipedia, the GOLD (parser) Wiki, and the now-defunct XBox1-Live. I have found some "Abscissa"s out there who are not me, though.
Jan 07 2012
prev sibling parent Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:
On 7/01/12 7:29 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 IMO, Indie gamedev is really the only way to go if you want to make games.
 All the way until college I was convinced I wanted to work for a major game
 company. Then I started learning more about the nature of the industry at
 the time (around 2000-2001), and that was also the point where the industry
 itself was starting its slow descent into becoming into the
 Hollywood-wannabe cesspool it mostly is today. ("Fuck actual gaming, we're
 gonna be cinematic storytellers!" Too many Pixar rejects in the industry
 now, I guess...Not to mention all the "packaged-goods" managers...)

Whether or not you'll enjoy the industry depends a lot on why you want to be in it in the first place. If you want to be in because you enjoy playing games and thinking up cool games to make then I think that's the wrong reason. If you enjoy the technical challenges of producing a finished, quality (software quality, not design quality) product then I think you'll enjoy the industry more. Of course, you should care about the overall quality of the product, including its design, but as a programmer it shouldn't be your focus, and it shouldn't be the reason you want to be in the industry. Going indie is great too. Lots of good stuff happening there. I would recommend that people work for a major studio first before going indie though, because you'll learn a lot in a very short amount of time about the reality of how games are made. It's a very instructive experience even if it's not where you want to be.
Jan 08 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent bcs <bcs example.com> writes:
On 01/06/2012 11:08 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "Paulo Pinto"<pjmlp progtools.org>  wrote in message
 news:je7vvh$253f$1 digitalmars.com...
  Hi,

  I just saw a follow up article from Herb Sutter about
  the future of parallel computing.

  http://herbsutter.com/welcome-to-the-jungle/

  Very interesting read. Excuse me if someone has already
  posted it.


about it is that it seems to be written under the assumption that the highest-end hardware that's*sitting around on store shelves* is the only hardware that's relevant, or even exists.

I think the thought is that *in the long run* the only chips that will hang around fall into one of two sets: The most powerful chips available and the most power efficient chips available. When you are buying new, why would you get anything else? In the short term there will be older stuff around but firstly, "nobody" buys used and secondly it's going to get replaced at some point (if for no other reason but getting damaged by handling). As a second rebuttal, I think the article is directed squarely at the "My program needs to run faster (lets throw hardware at it)!" crowd.
Jan 07 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Brad Anderson <eco gnuk.net> writes:
--bcaec55400fac7207904b5f94b26
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org> wrote in message
 news:je9e3t$1g3l$1 digitalmars.com...
 Hi,

 so you are also following Andre's attemps to revive the
 old homebrew developer feeling. :)

Yea, I grew up on that sort of thing. And I'd been working with Andre' (LaMothe, of course) since well before he started doing hardware kits. His old DOS-based game dev books are what moved me from various forms of BASIC into finally really grokking things like C, pointers and low-level programming (which I had only "kind of" understood before). Then I just happened to end up in contact with him through a mutual aquaintence (via AOL 1.x ;) heh, yea, way back then). Andre' was starting up a budget-game publishing company and was looking for a breakout clone, which I happened to already be working on. So there was that, and then he started some gamedev forums that I was a regular on for years. Then Hasbro Interactive fucked everything up with unsubstantiated litigation and typical corporate "drown in legal fees" tactics, and then he got into doing hardware kits like he's doing now.

I was a regular on there too. Small world.
 IMO, Indie gamedev is really the only way to go if you want to make games.
 All the way until college I was convinced I wanted to work for a major game
 company. Then I started learning more about the nature of the industry at
 the time (around 2000-2001), and that was also the point where the industry
 itself was starting its slow descent into becoming into the
 Hollywood-wannabe cesspool it mostly is today. ("Fuck actual gaming, we're
 gonna be cinematic storytellers!" Too many Pixar rejects in the industry
 now, I guess...Not to mention all the "packaged-goods" managers...)

 I also miss those days. I grew up with the ZX Spectrum,
 doing some BASIC and Z80 stuff, then most of my friends
 moved up to the Amiga 500 and I eventually got a PC,
 since my dad was the opinion the PC would be the future.

For me, it was Apple IIc and ApplesoftBASIC (I'm normally critical of apple products, especially after having spent a year or so with OSX, but the Apple II line is the one major exception for me. I guess you could say Woz was the *real* Apple for me). Plus a small amount of Logo and machine code on the machine. Then I got a [Packard Bell, remember them?] 486DX2 and moved to QBASIC, had an enormous amount of fun with that. (IIRC, Amiga was pretty much out of the picture by then, and I hadn't even heard of it. Sometimes now I feel like I really missed out on it.) Tinkered a bit with C/C++, but didn't quite "get it". Then did VB 3 (It came on a bunch of floppies and was for Win3 :) ). Then I found Andre's DOS books (this was still *just* before DirectX, or at least around the time of what was then called the "Game SDK"). Was into that for years, and somehow managed to get sucked into web dev, and these days all my free time goes to D-related projects (mostly things that will directly or indirectly make my webdev work slightly less painful).
 Anyway, I had lots of fun doing x86 assembly programming
 with some Turbo Pascal and eventually C. Then quite a few
 languages after that.

 Nowadays I develop business software mostly in JVM and .NET
 languages, running in clustered environments. With development
 teams scattered around the globe.

 Doing low level programming and graphics related stuff is
 now only a hobby, when real life permits to do so. Until the
 day I manage to change area.

 Wow, now I am a bit nostaligic


Brad Anderson --bcaec55400fac7207904b5f94b26 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Nick Sabalausky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;a a.= a&gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmai= l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left= :1ex"> <div class=3D"im">&quot;Paulo Pinto&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pjmlp progt= ools.org">pjmlp progtools.org</a>&gt; wrote in message<br> </div>news:je9e3t$1g3l$1 digitalmars.com...<br> <div class=3D"im">&gt; Hi,<br> &gt;<br> &gt; so you are also following Andre&#39;s attemps to revive the<br> &gt; old homebrew developer feeling. :)<br> &gt;<br> <br> </div>Yea, I grew up on that sort of thing. And I&#39;d been working with A= ndre&#39;<br> (LaMothe, of course) since well before he started doing hardware kits. His<= br> old DOS-based game dev books are what moved me from various forms of BASIC<= br> into finally really grokking things like C, pointers and low-level<br> programming (which I had only &quot;kind of&quot; understood before). Then = I just<br> happened to end up in contact with him through a mutual aquaintence (via AO= L<br> 1.x ;) heh, yea, way back then). Andre&#39; was starting up a budget-game<b= r> publishing company and was looking for a breakout clone, which I happened t= o<br> already be working on. So there was that, and then he started some gamedev<= br> forums that I was a regular on for years. Then Hasbro Interactive fucked<br=

rown<br> in legal fees&quot; tactics, and then he got into doing hardware kits like = he&#39;s<br> doing now.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I was a regular on there too= . =A0Small world.=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin= :0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <br> IMO, Indie gamedev is really the only way to go if you want to make games.<= br> All the way until college I was convinced I wanted to work for a major game= <br> company. Then I started learning more about the nature of the industry at<b= r> the time (around 2000-2001), and that was also the point where the industry= <br> itself was starting its slow descent into becoming into the<br> Hollywood-wannabe cesspool it mostly is today. (&quot;Fuck actual gaming, w= e&#39;re<br> gonna be cinematic storytellers!&quot; Too many Pixar rejects in the indust= ry<br> now, I guess...Not to mention all the &quot;packaged-goods&quot; managers..= .)<br> <div class=3D"im"><br> &gt; I also miss those days. I grew up with the ZX Spectrum,<br> &gt; doing some BASIC and Z80 stuff, then most of my friends<br> &gt; moved up to the Amiga 500 and I eventually got a PC,<br> &gt; since my dad was the opinion the PC would be the future.<br> &gt;<br> <br> </div>For me, it was Apple IIc and ApplesoftBASIC (I&#39;m normally critica= l of apple<br> products, especially after having spent a year or so with OSX, but the Appl= e<br> II line is the one major exception for me. I guess you could say Woz was th= e<br> *real* Apple for me). Plus a small amount of Logo and machine code on the<b= r> machine. Then I got a [Packard Bell, remember them?] 486DX2 and moved to<br=


es<br> now I feel like I really missed out on it.)<br> <br> Tinkered a bit with C/C++, but didn&#39;t quite &quot;get it&quot;. Then di= d VB 3 (It came<br> on a bunch of floppies and was for Win3 :) ). Then I found Andre&#39;s DOS = books<br> (this was still *just* before DirectX, or at least around the time of what<= br> was then called the &quot;Game SDK&quot;). Was into that for years, and som= ehow<br> managed to get sucked into web dev, and these days all my free time goes to= <br> D-related projects (mostly things that will directly or indirectly make my<= br> webdev work slightly less painful).<br> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> &gt; Anyway, I had lots of fun doing x86 assembly programming<br> &gt; with some Turbo Pascal and eventually C. Then quite a few<br> &gt; languages after that.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Nowadays I develop business software mostly in JVM and .NET<br> &gt; languages, running in clustered environments. With development<br> &gt; teams scattered around the globe.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Doing low level programming and graphics related stuff is<br> &gt; now only a hobby, when real life permits to do so. Until the<br> &gt; day I manage to change area.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Wow, now I am a bit nostaligic<br> &gt;<br> <br> <br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><div>Regards,</div><div>Brad Anderson</d= iv> --bcaec55400fac7207904b5f94b26--
Jan 07 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
You went from an Apple IIc to a 486?  That's quite a leap.=20

I interviewed at Blizzard back in the day and that was enough to sour me on t=
he game industry. This was before the era of cinematic games though.=20

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 7, 2012, at 11:29 AM, "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> wrote:

 "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org> wrote in message=20
 news:je9e3t$1g3l$1 digitalmars.com...
 Hi,
=20
 so you are also following Andre's attemps to revive the
 old homebrew developer feeling. :)
=20

Yea, I grew up on that sort of thing. And I'd been working with Andre'=20 (LaMothe, of course) since well before he started doing hardware kits. His=

 old DOS-based game dev books are what moved me from various forms of BASIC=

 into finally really grokking things like C, pointers and low-level=20
 programming (which I had only "kind of" understood before). Then I just=20=

 happened to end up in contact with him through a mutual aquaintence (via A=

 1.x ;) heh, yea, way back then). Andre' was starting up a budget-game=20
 publishing company and was looking for a breakout clone, which I happened t=

 already be working on. So there was that, and then he started some gamedev=

 forums that I was a regular on for years. Then Hasbro Interactive fucked=20=

 everything up with unsubstantiated litigation and typical corporate "drown=

 in legal fees" tactics, and then he got into doing hardware kits like he's=

 doing now.
=20
 IMO, Indie gamedev is really the only way to go if you want to make games.=

 All the way until college I was convinced I wanted to work for a major gam=

 company. Then I started learning more about the nature of the industry at=20=

 the time (around 2000-2001), and that was also the point where the industr=

 itself was starting its slow descent into becoming into the=20
 Hollywood-wannabe cesspool it mostly is today. ("Fuck actual gaming, we're=

 gonna be cinematic storytellers!" Too many Pixar rejects in the industry=20=

 now, I guess...Not to mention all the "packaged-goods" managers...)
=20
 I also miss those days. I grew up with the ZX Spectrum,
 doing some BASIC and Z80 stuff, then most of my friends
 moved up to the Amiga 500 and I eventually got a PC,
 since my dad was the opinion the PC would be the future.
=20

For me, it was Apple IIc and ApplesoftBASIC (I'm normally critical of appl=

 products, especially after having spent a year or so with OSX, but the App=

 II line is the one major exception for me. I guess you could say Woz was t=

 *real* Apple for me). Plus a small amount of Logo and machine code on the=20=

 machine. Then I got a [Packard Bell, remember them?] 486DX2 and moved to=20=

 QBASIC, had an enormous amount of fun with that. (IIRC, Amiga was pretty=20=

 much out of the picture by then, and I hadn't even heard of it. Sometimes=20=

 now I feel like I really missed out on it.)
=20
 Tinkered a bit with C/C++, but didn't quite "get it". Then did VB 3 (It ca=

 on a bunch of floppies and was for Win3 :) ). Then I found Andre's DOS boo=

 (this was still *just* before DirectX, or at least around the time of what=

 was then called the "Game SDK"). Was into that for years, and somehow=20
 managed to get sucked into web dev, and these days all my free time goes t=

 D-related projects (mostly things that will directly or indirectly make my=

 webdev work slightly less painful).
=20
 Anyway, I had lots of fun doing x86 assembly programming
 with some Turbo Pascal and eventually C. Then quite a few
 languages after that.
=20
 Nowadays I develop business software mostly in JVM and .NET
 languages, running in clustered environments. With development
 teams scattered around the globe.
=20
 Doing low level programming and graphics related stuff is
 now only a hobby, when real life permits to do so. Until the
 day I manage to change area.
=20
 Wow, now I am a bit nostaligic
=20

=20

Jan 08 2012
prev sibling parent reply Brad Anderson <eco gnuk.net> writes:
--f46d0435c12ae8f0b304b6094ecf
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 "Brad Anderson" <eco gnuk.net> wrote in message
 news:mailman.185.1325982241.16222.digitalmars-d puremagic.com...
 On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Nick Sabalausky <a a.a> wrote:

 "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org> wrote in message
 news:je9e3t$1g3l$1 digitalmars.com...
 Hi,

 so you are also following Andre's attemps to revive the
 old homebrew developer feeling. :)

Yea, I grew up on that sort of thing. And I'd been working with Andre' (LaMothe, of course) since well before he started doing hardware kits. His old DOS-based game dev books are what moved me from various forms of BASIC into finally really grokking things like C, pointers and low-level programming (which I had only "kind of" understood before). Then I just happened to end up in contact with him through a mutual aquaintence (via AOL 1.x ;) heh, yea, way back then). Andre' was starting up a budget-game publishing company and was looking for a breakout clone, which I


 to
 already be working on. So there was that, and then he started some
 gamedev
 forums that I was a regular on for years. Then Hasbro Interactive fucked
 everything up with unsubstantiated litigation and typical corporate
 "drown
 in legal fees" tactics, and then he got into doing hardware kits like
 he's
 doing now.

I was a regular on there too. Small world.

Heh, cool. I'm "Abscissa" over there (although I haven't posted or even lurked much in years). I was one of the two-digit user numbers :)

Catalyst. It's interesting they are still going strong (and that there are still people I recognize posting regularly). I joined the forums back when they were Xtreme Games forums (which got moved over to XGameStation at some point). I never really got into the XGameStation stuff but stayed around the forums after Andre's shift in attention. I was around for the Hasbro drama. I think I'd be nervous to go back and look at some of my old posts. I was a young teenager when I frequented these forums so I no doubt made a lot of embarrassing posts. --f46d0435c12ae8f0b304b6094ecf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Nick Sabalausky <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;a a.a= &gt;</span> wrote:<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail= _quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:= 1ex"> &quot;Brad Anderson&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eco gnuk.net">eco gnuk.net<= /a>&gt; wrote in message<br> news:mailman.185.1325982241.16222.digitalmars-d puremagic.com...<br> <div class=3D"im">&gt; On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Nick Sabalausky &lt= ;a a.a&gt; wrote:<br> &gt;<br> </div><div><div class=3D"h5">&gt;&gt; &quot;Paulo Pinto&quot; &lt;<a href= =3D"mailto:pjmlp progtools.org">pjmlp progtools.org</a>&gt; wrote in messag= e<br> &gt;&gt; news:je9e3t$1g3l$1 digitalmars.com...<br> &gt;&gt; &gt; Hi,<br> &gt;&gt; &gt;<br> &gt;&gt; &gt; so you are also following Andre&#39;s attemps to revive the<b= r> &gt;&gt; &gt; old homebrew developer feeling. :)<br> &gt;&gt; &gt;<br> &gt;&gt;<br> &gt;&gt; Yea, I grew up on that sort of thing. And I&#39;d been working wit= h Andre&#39;<br> &gt;&gt; (LaMothe, of course) since well before he started doing hardware k= its.<br> &gt;&gt; His<br> &gt;&gt; old DOS-based game dev books are what moved me from various forms = of<br> &gt;&gt; BASIC<br> &gt;&gt; into finally really grokking things like C, pointers and low-level= <br> &gt;&gt; programming (which I had only &quot;kind of&quot; understood befor= e). Then I just<br> &gt;&gt; happened to end up in contact with him through a mutual aquaintenc= e (via<br> &gt;&gt; AOL<br> &gt;&gt; 1.x ;) heh, yea, way back then). Andre&#39; was starting up a budg= et-game<br> &gt;&gt; publishing company and was looking for a breakout clone, which I h= appened<br> &gt;&gt; to<br> &gt;&gt; already be working on. So there was that, and then he started some= <br> &gt;&gt; gamedev<br> &gt;&gt; forums that I was a regular on for years. Then Hasbro Interactive = fucked<br> &gt;&gt; everything up with unsubstantiated litigation and typical corporat= e<br> &gt;&gt; &quot;drown<br> &gt;&gt; in legal fees&quot; tactics, and then he got into doing hardware k= its like<br> &gt;&gt; he&#39;s<br> &gt;&gt; doing now.<br> &gt;&gt;<br> &gt;<br> </div></div>&gt; I was a regular on there too. =A0Small world.<br> &gt;<br> <br> Heh, cool. I&#39;m &quot;Abscissa&quot; over there (although I haven&#39;t = posted or even<br> lurked much in years). I was one of the two-digit user numbers :)<br> <br> <br> <br> </blockquote></div><div><br></div>I remember you being a frequent poster.= =A0=A0I haven&#39;t been in years.=A0 I was Catalyst. =A0 It&#39;s interest= ing they are still going strong (and that there are still people I recogniz= e posting regularly). I joined the forums back when they were Xtreme Games = forums (which got moved over to XGameStation at some point). =A0I never rea= lly got into the XGameStation stuff but stayed around the forums after Andr= e&#39;s shift in attention. =A0I was around for the Hasbro drama. =A0I thin= k I&#39;d be nervous to go back and look at some of my old posts. =A0I was = a young teenager when I frequented these forums so I no doubt made a lot of= embarrassing posts. --f46d0435c12ae8f0b304b6094ecf--
Jan 08 2012
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Brad Anderson" <eco gnuk.net> wrote in message 
news:mailman.210.1326051013.16222.digitalmars-d puremagic.com...
 I remember you being a frequent poster.  I haven't been in years.  I was
 Catalyst.

Oh, yea, I remember seeing you around there a lot.
 It's interesting they are still going strong (and that there
 are still people I recognize posting regularly). I joined the forums back
 when they were Xtreme Games forums (which got moved over to XGameStation 
 at
 some point).  I never really got into the XGameStation stuff but stayed
 around the forums after Andre's shift in attention.  I was around for the
 Hasbro drama.  I think I'd be nervous to go back and look at some of my 
 old
 posts.  I was a young teenager when I frequented these forums so I no 
 doubt
 made a lot of embarrassing posts.

Same here, on all points :) Although I think most of the old posts are gone now. Did you happen to be at XGDC 2001? We may have actually met.
Jan 08 2012