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digitalmars.D - Website changes/updates

reply "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
IMHO, the font size wasn't bad before.  Nice to have a larger one with 
lots to read.  Just my opinion.

Also I suggest a line-height of 1.4em for the content.  This generally 
makes large blocks of text (e.g. documentation, articles, blog posts) 
easier to read.

Walter: if you're reading this, what are things you'd like to see the 
website do?  Aside from possible comments, it's better to get a full 
plan together (usually called the "discovery" phase) before jumping in 
and making a mess.

I know you may not have time to worry about things like that.  In that 
case, maybe you want to say so and let a group of people loose (e.g. +1 
and -1'ing each other ideas) to give you a proposal of features and 
suggestions.

-[Unknown]
Jan 24 2008
next sibling parent reply janderson <askme me.com> writes:
Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 IMHO, the font size wasn't bad before.  Nice to have a larger one 

 Also I suggest a line-height of 1.4em for the content.  This 

posts) easier to read.
 Walter: if you're reading this, what are things you'd like to see the 

plan together (usually called the "discovery" phase) before jumping in and making a mess.
 I know you may not have time to worry about things like that.  In 

(e.g. +1 and -1'ing each other ideas) to give you a proposal of features and suggestions.
 -[Unknown]

Personally I think it would be great if the community could take over the majority of the D website. A flashy official website could do a lot for the reputation of D. -Joel
Jan 24 2008
parent janderson <askme me.com> writes:
janderson wrote:
 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
  > IMHO, the font size wasn't bad before.  Nice to have a larger one 
 with lots to read.  Just my opinion.
  >
  > Also I suggest a line-height of 1.4em for the content.  This 
 generally makes large blocks of text (e.g. documentation, articles, blog 
 posts) easier to read.
  >
  > Walter: if you're reading this, what are things you'd like to see the 
 website do?  Aside from possible comments, it's better to get a full 
 plan together (usually called the "discovery" phase) before jumping in 
 and making a mess.
  >
  > I know you may not have time to worry about things like that.  In 
 that case, maybe you want to say so and let a group of people loose 
 (e.g. +1 and -1'ing each other ideas) to give you a proposal of features 
 and suggestions.
  >
  > -[Unknown]
 
 
 Personally I think it would be great if the community could take over 
 the majority of the D website.  A flashy official website could do a lot 
 for the reputation of D.
 
 -Joel

Alternatively a website style competition or something might work. -Joel
Jan 24 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 IMHO, the font size wasn't bad before.  Nice to have a larger one with 
 lots to read.  Just my opinion.
 
 Also I suggest a line-height of 1.4em for the content.  This generally 
 makes large blocks of text (e.g. documentation, articles, blog posts) 
 easier to read.
 
 Walter: if you're reading this, what are things you'd like to see the 
 website do?  Aside from possible comments, it's better to get a full 
 plan together (usually called the "discovery" phase) before jumping in 
 and making a mess.

I don't know, except that I don't want it to be an ongoing time sink. Some goals: 1) easy to navigate 2) easy on the eyes 3) standards compliant 4) fast loading 5) printable with a print.css Things to avoid: 1) glitz 2) fixed size pages 3) long download times 4) clever stuff that'll break with the next browser update
 I know you may not have time to worry about things like that.  In that 
 case, maybe you want to say so and let a group of people loose (e.g. +1 
 and -1'ing each other ideas) to give you a proposal of features and 
 suggestions.

Jan 24 2008
next sibling parent reply Don Clugston <dac nospam.com.au> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 IMHO, the font size wasn't bad before.  Nice to have a larger one with 
 lots to read.  Just my opinion.

 Also I suggest a line-height of 1.4em for the content.  This generally 
 makes large blocks of text (e.g. documentation, articles, blog posts) 
 easier to read.

 Walter: if you're reading this, what are things you'd like to see the 
 website do?  Aside from possible comments, it's better to get a full 
 plan together (usually called the "discovery" phase) before jumping in 
 and making a mess.

I don't know, except that I don't want it to be an ongoing time sink. Some goals: 1) easy to navigate 2) easy on the eyes 3) standards compliant 4) fast loading 5) printable with a print.css Things to avoid: 1) glitz 2) fixed size pages 3) long download times 4) clever stuff that'll break with the next browser update

What do you think of the Tango site? (I'm sure there's some synergy to be found around here).
Jan 25 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Don Clugston wrote:
 What do you think of the Tango site?
 (I'm sure there's some synergy to be found around here).

It looks nice, but some nits (you asked!): - the text won't flow on resizing the window - the 3 column theme on the front page doesn't continue to the sub-pages - I liked the original Tango logo better (the one with the two dancers), I know, you can't please everyone :-) - the left two characters of the [News] items are cut off after clicking on [Dynamic] I like the header and footer.
Jan 27 2008
parent reply David Gileadi <foo bar.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 - I liked the original Tango logo better (the one with the two dancers)

Me too. More evocative than the current one.
Jan 28 2008
parent reply "Kris" <foo bar.com> writes:
Bah, what can you do <g>

A number of us found that original image to be "perfect" but we found it was 
very hard to work into a different theme (too big, for one thing). There was 
also a copyright issue, but we could have made our own version instead and 
(naturally) made a trip to Venice just to get it looking right. I personally 
enjoyed the grafitti on the wall :)

BTW: if anyone wishes to be web-meister for the Tango site, please feel 
free!

- Kris



"David Gileadi" <foo bar.com> wrote in message 
news:fnl18i$2fcu$1 digitalmars.com...
 Walter Bright wrote:
 - I liked the original Tango logo better (the one with the two dancers)

Me too. More evocative than the current one.

Jan 28 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Kris wrote:
 Bah, what can you do <g>

The problem with the winged one is it looks like Air Force insignia. The tango dance is characterized by aggressive staccato, precision movement, and the logo should reflect that, not flying <g>.
 A number of us found that original image to be "perfect" but we found it was 
 very hard to work into a different theme (too big, for one thing). There was 
 also a copyright issue, but we could have made our own version instead and 
 (naturally) made a trip to Venice just to get it looking right. I personally 
 enjoyed the grafitti on the wall :)

Do a google image search on tango, and I think you'll find a lot of great inspiration for a logo!
Jan 29 2008
next sibling parent Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Kris wrote:
 Bah, what can you do <g>

The problem with the winged one is it looks like Air Force insignia. The tango dance is characterized by aggressive staccato, precision movement, and the logo should reflect that, not flying <g>.

It made me think of motorcycle gangs. Maybe a lot of them are ex-airforce? --bb
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Kris wrote:
 Bah, what can you do <g>

The problem with the winged one is it looks like Air Force insignia. The tango dance is characterized by aggressive staccato, precision movement, and the logo should reflect that, not flying <g>.
 A number of us found that original image to be "perfect" but we found it
 was very hard to work into a different theme (too big, for one thing).
 There was also a copyright issue, but we could have made our own version
 instead and (naturally) made a trip to Venice just to get it looking
 right. I personally enjoyed the grafitti on the wall :)

Do a google image search on tango, and I think you'll find a lot of great inspiration for a logo!

As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel the new logo represents all those traits nicely. -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the Tango
Jan 29 2008
next sibling parent reply Aarti_pl <aarti interia.pl> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:

 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

Well, I would say that name and logo together represents a lack of cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-) BR Marcin Kuszczak (aarti_pl)
Jan 29 2008
parent reply Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Aarti_pl wrote:

 Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
 
 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

Well, I would say that name and logo together represents a lack of cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)

A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice, but is rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos. -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the Tango
Jan 29 2008
next sibling parent reply Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Aarti_pl wrote:
 
 Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
 
 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

Well, I would say that name and logo together represents a lack of cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)

A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice, but is rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.

I should add that such a logo _may_ exist, but we have yet to see it. The only viable alternatives to the current one in this round, were fully abstract logos. Note that those saying the logo reminds them of cars, planes or motorcycles hits up on the same fact that made us choose the logo; the motive has been used in logos for such products and I would guess for the exact same reasons - the wings represents power, speed and elegance. Having wings as a logo for a motorcycle isn't cohesive either right? -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the Tango
Jan 29 2008
parent reply Aarti_pl <aarti interia.pl> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 
 Aarti_pl wrote:

 Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:

 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)

rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.

I should add that such a logo _may_ exist, but we have yet to see it. The only viable alternatives to the current one in this round, were fully abstract logos. Note that those saying the logo reminds them of cars, planes or motorcycles hits up on the same fact that made us choose the logo; the motive has been used in logos for such products and I would guess for the exact same reasons - the wings represents power, speed and elegance. Having wings as a logo for a motorcycle isn't cohesive either right?

But did you see big, powerful and heavy motorcycles named "Tango"? They call them "Harley Davidson"... :-D Please notice that wings logo is connected rather with: "big, powerful, heavy, metal, hard, machine" words than with "elegance, dance, subtle, nice, light". I studied in first place marketing, so I hope I have right feeling about these issues. But anyway I just wanted to give you feedback, as my feelings about new logo were similar as others expressed here. BR Marcin Kuszczak (aarti_pl)
Jan 29 2008
parent Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Aarti_pl wrote:

 Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 
 Aarti_pl wrote:

 Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:

 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for
 a logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the
 dance and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the
 library. I feel the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)

is rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.

I should add that such a logo _may_ exist, but we have yet to see it. The only viable alternatives to the current one in this round, were fully abstract logos. Note that those saying the logo reminds them of cars, planes or motorcycles hits up on the same fact that made us choose the logo; the motive has been used in logos for such products and I would guess for the exact same reasons - the wings represents power, speed and elegance. Having wings as a logo for a motorcycle isn't cohesive either right?

But did you see big, powerful and heavy motorcycles named "Tango"? They call them "Harley Davidson"... :-D Please notice that wings logo is connected rather with: "big, powerful, heavy, metal, hard, machine" words than with "elegance, dance, subtle, nice, light".

I think you are wrong on several accounts here, as the metal, machine and heavy aspects has entered the fray here through the products themselves, neither through logo nor name. When did a bird ever start representing heavy? The logo isn't of an ostrich either. Tango was chosen as a name because it can mean power, speed and elegance. That it is a dance can additionally be used to infer some sense of fun (dancing is fun, hopefully it is fun to use Tango too). Now, the logo _also_ represents (in our eyes) power, speed and elegance (and if you want, flying, which is fun and hopefully your Tango using code will fly too). That the logo doesn't represent dancing is thus less of an issue, as that was not the reason for choosing the name. Given the above connotations for both name and logo (I understand that others may put other things into it, but that applies to all images), the whole is highly cohesive, albeit in a different plane of perception. We may be testing conventions with this logo, and if so I personally think that is a good thing :) (as a user with only practical marketing background).
 I studied in first place marketing, so I hope I have right feeling about
 these issues. 

They may be right for you, but I don't agree with you, and I'm generally impressed by how bad marketing representatives can perform when trying to market computer technologies. You should indeed have a better background for that though.
 But anyway I just wanted to give you feedback, as my 
 feelings about new logo were similar as others expressed here.

Negative feedback (to call it that, I know you mean it to be constructive) is in a minority - most is very positive. -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the Tango
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Aarti_pl <aarti interia.pl> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:
 Aarti_pl wrote:
 
 Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:

 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)

A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice, but is rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.

That is simply not true. Cohesion of e.g. company image is very important and companies work very hard to create cohesive image for outside world. I think that the same rules applies to every organization which wants to make its chances for success better. That said MOST of good organizations shows their customers cohesive image. *** I used word image in meaning: "everything what is visible for others from outside of organization.". It includes among others: name, logo, public relations, advertisements etc. Unfortunately engineers often underestimate marketing issues... :-) Best Regards Marcin Kuszczak (aarti_pl)
Jan 29 2008
parent Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Aarti_pl wrote:
 
 Unfortunately engineers often underestimate marketing issues... :-)

To imply that we're in that group (underestimating marketing issues) would be wrong. -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the Tango
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 Aarti_pl wrote:
 
 Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:

 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)

A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice, but is rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.

I just like the concept of a standard library with its own logo. That's funny. And that we're debating about what it should be. When I thought it was a motorcycle thing, I thought hey that's cool. Maybe they're all into motorcycles or something. Maybe it's an allusion to zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. I could definitely see that Robert Pirsig guy spinning a convincing argument that tangoing and morcycling are actually the same thing. Anyway, image googling for "biker logo" turns up a few wings on the first page, so I guess I'm not crazy. Like http://www.arabianbiker.com/ --bb
Jan 29 2008
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:
 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 Aarti_pl wrote:

 Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:

 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking
 for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the
 dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I
 feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)

A logo is about connotations, not cohesion. The latter can be nice, but is rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.

I just like the concept of a standard library with its own logo. That's funny. And that we're debating about what it should be. When I thought it was a motorcycle thing, I thought hey that's cool. Maybe they're all into motorcycles or something. Maybe it's an allusion to zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. I could definitely see that Robert Pirsig guy spinning a convincing argument that tangoing and morcycling are actually the same thing.

My first impression when I saw the design was that it looked like a car logo (Bentley, for example). However, I actually liked that the design was at once both elegant, simple, and totally uncharacteristic for a software library. Most software logos tend to be cute or a bit silly, and in my opinion not terribly marketable. This logo, on the other hand, I'd actually feel pretty good about putting on a polo shirt. We invested a lot of time into creating a dance-oriented logo with the same elegance and simplicity and simply couldn't find one we liked. The designs were all either so abstract that they were unidentifiable, too complex, etc.
 Anyway, image googling for "biker logo" turns up a few wings on the
 first page, so I guess I'm not crazy.

One thing that can be said for the current logo is that it seems to provoke a reaction in everyone that sees it. That's rarely a bad thing in marketing ;-) Sean
Jan 29 2008
parent Carlos Santander <csantander619 gmail.com> writes:
Sean Kelly escribió:
 Bill Baxter wrote:
 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 Aarti_pl wrote:

 Lars Ivar Igesund pisze:

 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking
 for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the
 dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I
 feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

cohesion... And I think that it is unintended, isn't it? ;-)

but is rather uncommon with logos in general. The unusual aspect here may be that images exist that match Tango, but they still don't make for good logos.

funny. And that we're debating about what it should be. When I thought it was a motorcycle thing, I thought hey that's cool. Maybe they're all into motorcycles or something. Maybe it's an allusion to zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance. I could definitely see that Robert Pirsig guy spinning a convincing argument that tangoing and morcycling are actually the same thing.

My first impression when I saw the design was that it looked like a car logo (Bentley, for example). However, I actually liked that the design was at once both elegant, simple, and totally uncharacteristic for a software library. Most software logos tend to be cute or a bit silly, and in my opinion not terribly marketable. This logo, on the other hand, I'd actually feel pretty good about putting on a polo shirt. We invested a lot of time into creating a dance-oriented logo with the same elegance and simplicity and simply couldn't find one we liked. The designs were all either so abstract that they were unidentifiable, too complex, etc.
 Anyway, image googling for "biker logo" turns up a few wings on the
 first page, so I guess I'm not crazy.

One thing that can be said for the current logo is that it seems to provoke a reaction in everyone that sees it. That's rarely a bad thing in marketing ;-) Sean

When I saw the logo, I didn't think of cars of motorcycles. I just saw the wings and thought "flying." Kinda weird, probably, but not bad, not bad at all. -- Carlos Santander Bernal
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

A couple url's: Tango: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/ Army Air Force wings: http://www.wittworldwide.com/images/W2AAFPilotWgPBSterlx.jpg A historical note: The AAF pin was worn by pilots of piston engine aircraft. When those pilots were transitioned to jets, they'd go to a jeweler and have the wings "swept back" on their pins.
Jan 29 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

A couple url's: Tango: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/ Army Air Force wings: http://www.wittworldwide.com/images/W2AAFPilotWgPBSterlx.jpg A historical note: The AAF pin was worn by pilots of piston engine aircraft. When those pilots were transitioned to jets, they'd go to a jeweler and have the wings "swept back" on their pins.

I should add that in order to register a trademark (necessary if you want to protect it) it needs to be unique. I am not a trademark lawyer, but you may have a hard time defending the wings as not being "confusingly similar" to other marks.
Jan 29 2008
parent reply Alix Pexton <_a_l_i_x_._p_e_x_t_o_n_ _g_m_a_i_l_._c_o_m_> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 As mentioned before, the dancing logos had issues. We were looking for a
 logo that could represent power, speed and elegance, much like the dance
 and thus a reason for Tango being used as a name for the library. I feel
 the new logo represents all those traits nicely.

A couple url's: Tango: http://www.dsource.org/projects/tango/ Army Air Force wings: http://www.wittworldwide.com/images/W2AAFPilotWgPBSterlx.jpg A historical note: The AAF pin was worn by pilots of piston engine aircraft. When those pilots were transitioned to jets, they'd go to a jeweler and have the wings "swept back" on their pins.

I should add that in order to register a trademark (necessary if you want to protect it) it needs to be unique. I am not a trademark lawyer, but you may have a hard time defending the wings as not being "confusingly similar" to other marks.

The winged logo reminds me of the Bentley marque... http://www.bentleymotors.com/Corporate/ A...
Jan 31 2008
parent "dominik" <aha aha.com> writes:
"Alix Pexton" <_a_l_i_x_._p_e_x_t_o_n_ _g_m_a_i_l_._c_o_m_> wrote in message 
news:fnsb77$tmr$1 digitalmars.com...
 The winged logo reminds me of the Bentley marque...

 http://www.bentleymotors.com/Corporate/

that was the model suggested among winged badges, so its based on the bentley badge
Jan 31 2008
prev sibling parent reply "dominik" <aha aha.com> writes:
"Walter Bright" <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:fnmsif$1341$1 digitalmars.com...
 Do a google image search on tango, and I think you'll find a lot of great 
 inspiration for a logo!

since I did that logo (as well as the one for arclib), I think I might add a thing or two. After several dozens of versions, this one was chosen because it works - you talk about it, you will remember it - its different, since no other software library has something like it, and especially not in D world. It also portrays Tangos power. And its cool, its not boring. I like it. here is something that awaits a bottle to be rendered: http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label_back.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/vrat.PNG
Jan 30 2008
parent reply "Guillaume B." <guillaume.b.spam sympatico.ca> writes:
dominik wrote:

 
 "Walter Bright" <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:fnmsif$1341$1 digitalmars.com...
 Do a google image search on tango, and I think you'll find a lot of great
 inspiration for a logo!

since I did that logo (as well as the one for arclib), I think I might add a thing or two. After several dozens of versions, this one was chosen because it works - you talk about it, you will remember it - its different, since no other software library has something like it, and especially not in D world. It also portrays Tangos power. And its cool, its not boring. I like it. here is something that awaits a bottle to be rendered: http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label_back.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/vrat.PNG

Nice idea! :-) Just one thing: the French is... well... weird. It should probably be: "Bottled for 'D Language' / Embouteillé pour 'D Language'"... Guillaume
Jan 30 2008
parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Guillaume B. wrote:
 dominik wrote:
 
 "Walter Bright" <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:fnmsif$1341$1 digitalmars.com...
 Do a google image search on tango, and I think you'll find a lot of great
 inspiration for a logo!

a thing or two. After several dozens of versions, this one was chosen because it works - you talk about it, you will remember it - its different, since no other software library has something like it, and especially not in D world. It also portrays Tangos power. And its cool, its not boring. I like it. here is something that awaits a bottle to be rendered: http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label_back.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/vrat.PNG

Nice idea! :-) Just one thing: the French is... well... weird. It should probably be: "Bottled for 'D Language' / Embouteillé pour 'D Language'"...

That and whiskey doesn't usually have French on the label to begin with... unless you live in France. Or Canada. --bb
Jan 30 2008
next sibling parent "Guillaume B." <guillaume.b.spam sympatico.ca> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:

 Guillaume B. wrote:
 dominik wrote:
 
 "Walter Bright" <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:fnmsif$1341$1 digitalmars.com...
 Do a google image search on tango, and I think you'll find a lot of
 great inspiration for a logo!

add a thing or two. After several dozens of versions, this one was chosen because it works - you talk about it, you will remember it - its different, since no other software library has something like it, and especially not in D world. It also portrays Tangos power. And its cool, its not boring. I like it. here is something that awaits a bottle to be rendered: http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label_back.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/vrat.PNG

Nice idea! :-) Just one thing: the French is... well... weird. It should probably be: "Bottled for 'D Language' / Embouteillé pour 'D Language'"...

That and whiskey doesn't usually have French on the label to begin with... unless you live in France. Or Canada.

Right... Especially from "The oldest registered distillery in the US"! It's probably because of the special "D brand" :-) Guillaume
Jan 30 2008
prev sibling parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:
 Guillaume B. wrote:
 dominik wrote:

 "Walter Bright" <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:fnmsif$1341$1 digitalmars.com...
 Do a google image search on tango, and I think you'll find a lot of
 great
 inspiration for a logo!

might add a thing or two. After several dozens of versions, this one was chosen because it works - you talk about it, you will remember it - its different, since no other software library has something like it, and especially not in D world. It also portrays Tangos power. And its cool, its not boring. I like it. here is something that awaits a bottle to be rendered: http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/alc_label_back.PNG http://www.vga.hr/tango_final/vrat.PNG

Nice idea! :-) Just one thing: the French is... well... weird. It should probably be: "Bottled for 'D Language' / Embouteillé pour 'D Language'"...

That and whiskey doesn't usually have French on the label to begin with... unless you live in France. Or Canada.

We make our whiskey Cajun style. Sean
Jan 30 2008
parent "dominik" <aha aha.com> writes:
"Sean Kelly" <sean f4.ca> wrote in message 
news:fnri7c$1nqp$1 digitalmars.com...
 We make our whiskey Cajun style.

thanks guys for corrections/suggestions :) I was making an old style rum bottle - so I copied verbatim text from there.. then along the way I decided to switch to Jack Daniels style.. its still a WIP texture anyways.
Jan 31 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Jesse Phillips <jessekphillips gmail.com> writes:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:36:20 +0100, Don Clugston wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:
 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 IMHO, the font size wasn't bad before.  Nice to have a larger one with
 lots to read.  Just my opinion.

 Also I suggest a line-height of 1.4em for the content.  This generally
 makes large blocks of text (e.g. documentation, articles, blog posts)
 easier to read.

 Walter: if you're reading this, what are things you'd like to see the
 website do?  Aside from possible comments, it's better to get a full
 plan together (usually called the "discovery" phase) before jumping in
 and making a mess.

I don't know, except that I don't want it to be an ongoing time sink. Some goals: 1) easy to navigate 2) easy on the eyes 3) standards compliant 4) fast loading 5) printable with a print.css Things to avoid: 1) glitz 2) fixed size pages 3) long download times 4) clever stuff that'll break with the next browser update

What do you think of the Tango site? (I'm sure there's some synergy to be found around here).

on that note, I'm still looking forward to the integration of the forums into track, among others. Any news on that?
Jan 25 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply BCS <BCS pathlink.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 4) clever stuff that'll break with the next browser update

Does anyone (Mozilla, IE, etc.) maintain a "breakable browser" that is intended to checking what a web page would look like without some things working?
Jan 25 2008
parent reply "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
The Web Developer Extension for Firefox.  Microsoft developed a similar 
toolbar for IE (forget the name but it's like Web Developer Toolbar for IE.)

Also, obviously, following standards bodies, setting your Content-Type 
to application/xhtml+xml for testing, validating your html/xhtml/css.

And any browser allows you to disable JavaScript entirely.  Using 
JavaScript debuggers such as WebKit's and Firebug (IE has none afaik.)

Nightlies of WebKit and Firefox/SeaMonkey, as well as the latest Opera, 
also help here for checking against latest specs.

This really isn't as hard as most people make it.  So many want to use 
hacks (e.g. exploiting bugs in implementations) because that can't make 
anything work on all browsers.  In my experience, there is always a 
right way - a clean way that will always work.

I've been doing this for quite some years, written a lot of CSS, XHTML, 
and JavaScript, and it's been a long time since I've done anything that 
wouldn't work in tomorrow's browsers.  People act like it's not true, 
but if you follow the standards (and possibly add an additional IE-only 
stylesheet using conditional comments) you really won't have these problems.

Sorry for ranting.  Sometimes I'm really disappointed with my industry 
(generalizing; many I've worked with are very good.)

-[Unknown]


BCS wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 
 4) clever stuff that'll break with the next browser update

Does anyone (Mozilla, IE, etc.) maintain a "breakable browser" that is intended to checking what a web page would look like without some things working?

Jan 25 2008
parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Julio_C=E9sar_Carrascal_Urquijo?= writes:
Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 Using 
 JavaScript debuggers such as WebKit's and Firebug (IE has none afaik.)

You can debug JavaScript with Visual Studio ("Disable script debuging" in the Advanced tab of Internet Options). Nothing compared with Firebug though. -- Julio César Carrascal Urquijo http://jcesar.artelogico.com/
Jan 25 2008
parent "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
Oh, you're right, I forget that because I don't have Visual Studio on my 
primary web development machine.

I guess that's unfair if the express web edition does have it, but the 
price of Visual Studio (and relative low usage among web developers of 
its other features) makes it impractical otherwise imho.

Thanks for reminding me, though.  I should probably go install Visual 
Studio there... sorry for the mistake.

-[Unknown]


Julio César Carrascal Urquijo wrote:
 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 Using JavaScript debuggers such as WebKit's and Firebug (IE has none 
 afaik.)

You can debug JavaScript with Visual Studio ("Disable script debuging" in the Advanced tab of Internet Options). Nothing compared with Firebug though.

Jan 25 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply janderson <askme me.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 IMHO, the font size wasn't bad before.  Nice to have a larger one 


 Also I suggest a line-height of 1.4em for the content.  This 


posts) easier to read.
 Walter: if you're reading this, what are things you'd like to see 


plan together (usually called the "discovery" phase) before jumping in and making a mess.
 I don't know, except that I don't want it to be an ongoing time sink.

Exactly why this should be handed off to the community. No offense, but some of the communities web pages look a lot better then D's. -Joel PS - I apologize for sending this to your personal email, I hit the wrong button.
Jan 25 2008
parent reply Dan <murpsoft hotmail.com> writes:
janderson Wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:
  > Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
  >> IMHO, the font size wasn't bad before.  Nice to have a larger one 
 with lots to read.  Just my opinion.
  >>
  >> Also I suggest a line-height of 1.4em for the content.  This 
 generally makes large blocks of text (e.g. documentation, articles, blog 
 posts) easier to read.
  >>
  >> Walter: if you're reading this, what are things you'd like to see 
 the website do?  Aside from possible comments, it's better to get a full 
 plan together (usually called the "discovery" phase) before jumping in 
 and making a mess.
  >
  > I don't know, except that I don't want it to be an ongoing time sink.
 
 Exactly why this should be handed off to the community.  No offense, but 
 some of the communities web pages look a lot better then D's.
 
 -Joel
 
 PS - I apologize for sending this to your personal email, I hit the 
 wrong button.
 

I have no problem with the idea of an open web design strategy, except someone needs to be in charge of making sure it conforms to what Walter wants it to look like; and make sure nothing bad goes on his site. The "community" is a rather diverse and flexible bunch and it is his site after all. I'm in the process of making the site look just a little better stylistically. Walter is a very good devil's advocate, so making changes is quite a bit harder than just changing them and him going "yeah, if you say so". Now, I'm in the process of committing a bunch of changes to the stylesheet. If someone has anything else to add to the site, please let myself and/or Walter know. If you go through me, I'll mediate with Walter's expectations. : ) Regards, Dan
Jan 26 2008
parent reply Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
Dan wrote:
 janderson Wrote:
 
 Walter Bright wrote:
  > Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
  >> IMHO, the font size wasn't bad before.  Nice to have a larger one 
 with lots to read.  Just my opinion.
  >>
  >> Also I suggest a line-height of 1.4em for the content.  This 
 generally makes large blocks of text (e.g. documentation, articles, blog 
 posts) easier to read.
  >>
  >> Walter: if you're reading this, what are things you'd like to see 
 the website do?  Aside from possible comments, it's better to get a full 
 plan together (usually called the "discovery" phase) before jumping in 
 and making a mess.
  >
  > I don't know, except that I don't want it to be an ongoing time sink.

 Exactly why this should be handed off to the community.  No offense, but 
 some of the communities web pages look a lot better then D's.

 -Joel

 PS - I apologize for sending this to your personal email, I hit the 
 wrong button.

I have no problem with the idea of an open web design strategy, except someone needs to be in charge of making sure it conforms to what Walter wants it to look like; and make sure nothing bad goes on his site. The "community" is a rather diverse and flexible bunch and it is his site after all. I'm in the process of making the site look just a little better stylistically. Walter is a very good devil's advocate, so making changes is quite a bit harder than just changing them and him going "yeah, if you say so". Now, I'm in the process of committing a bunch of changes to the stylesheet. If someone has anything else to add to the site, please let myself and/or Walter know. If you go through me, I'll mediate with Walter's expectations. : ) Regards, Dan

In that case, could you do something about the nav bar in every single Phobos documentation page? It's doing strange things: http://ic.sunysb.edu/stu/cbwright/digitalmars_oddity.png Not to mention the small font.
Jan 27 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Christopher Wright wrote:
 In that case, could you do something about the nav bar in every single 
 Phobos documentation page? It's doing strange things: 
 http://ic.sunysb.edu/stu/cbwright/digitalmars_oddity.png

I can't make that happen with Explorer or firefox.
 Not to mention the small font.

Jan 27 2008
parent reply Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Christopher Wright wrote:
 In that case, could you do something about the nav bar in every single 
 Phobos documentation page? It's doing strange things: 
 http://ic.sunysb.edu/stu/cbwright/digitalmars_oddity.png

I can't make that happen with Explorer or firefox.

Argh. Damn Debian for forking Firefox. I'll rip it out and use Firefox instead.
Jan 27 2008
parent reply "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
What does Help -> About show?  As long as you can give the build number 
I'd guess it can't be that different from Gecko's regular rendering 
engine (forked or not.)

-[Unknown]


Christopher Wright wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 Christopher Wright wrote:
 In that case, could you do something about the nav bar in every 
 single Phobos documentation page? It's doing strange things: 
 http://ic.sunysb.edu/stu/cbwright/digitalmars_oddity.png

I can't make that happen with Explorer or firefox.

Argh. Damn Debian for forking Firefox. I'll rip it out and use Firefox instead.

Jan 27 2008
parent reply Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 What does Help -> About show?  As long as you can give the build number 
 I'd guess it can't be that different from Gecko's regular rendering 
 engine (forked or not.)
 
 -[Unknown]
 

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071128 Iceweasel/2.0.0.11 (Debian-2.0.0.11-1)
Jan 27 2008
parent reply "Unknown W. Brackets" <unknown simplemachines.org> writes:
Yes, that really should be in sync with Firefox 2.0.0.11.  It's using 
Gecko 1.8.1.11, which is the right tree and version.

Does anything happen if you change your theme (I have no idea if Debian 
ships winstripe but any other theme just to test is fine.)  Also, I 
assume you've made no changes to userContent.css or userChrome.css? 
Does it help to start Firefox in safe mode?

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/2.0/releasenotes/#troubleshooting

-[Unknown]


Christopher Wright wrote:
 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 What does Help -> About show?  As long as you can give the build 
 number I'd guess it can't be that different from Gecko's regular 
 rendering engine (forked or not.)

 -[Unknown]

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.8.1.11) Gecko/20071128 Iceweasel/2.0.0.11 (Debian-2.0.0.11-1)

Jan 27 2008
parent reply Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 Yes, that really should be in sync with Firefox 2.0.0.11.  It's using 
 Gecko 1.8.1.11, which is the right tree and version.
 
 Does anything happen if you change your theme (I have no idea if Debian 
 ships winstripe but any other theme just to test is fine.)  Also, I 
 assume you've made no changes to userContent.css or userChrome.css? Does 
 it help to start Firefox in safe mode?
 
 http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/2.0/releasenotes/#troubleshooting
 
 -[Unknown]

Using Firefox 2.0.0.11 gets rid of the problem, using what's supposedly the same build of Gecko. It's an Iceweasel-specific problem; the Debian people fscked it up. A pity; the Iceweasel icon's cuter. I shall survive.
Jan 27 2008
parent Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
Jesse Phillips wrote:
 On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:41:28 -0500, Christopher Wright wrote:
 
 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 Yes, that really should be in sync with Firefox 2.0.0.11.  It's using
 Gecko 1.8.1.11, which is the right tree and version.

 Does anything happen if you change your theme (I have no idea if Debian
 ships winstripe but any other theme just to test is fine.)  Also, I
 assume you've made no changes to userContent.css or userChrome.css?
 Does it help to start Firefox in safe mode?

 http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/2.0/releasenotes/#troubleshooting

 -[Unknown]

the same build of Gecko. It's an Iceweasel-specific problem; the Debian people fscked it up. A pity; the Iceweasel icon's cuter. I shall survive.

I'm on Debian with Iceweasel, and have had no such problem.

Then it's a problem unique to my system, which was a vanilla install of Debian testing as of three days ago.
Jan 28 2008
prev sibling parent Jesse Phillips <jessekphillips gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:41:28 -0500, Christopher Wright wrote:

 Unknown W. Brackets wrote:
 Yes, that really should be in sync with Firefox 2.0.0.11.  It's using
 Gecko 1.8.1.11, which is the right tree and version.
 
 Does anything happen if you change your theme (I have no idea if Debian
 ships winstripe but any other theme just to test is fine.)  Also, I
 assume you've made no changes to userContent.css or userChrome.css?
 Does it help to start Firefox in safe mode?
 
 http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/2.0/releasenotes/#troubleshooting
 
 -[Unknown]

Using Firefox 2.0.0.11 gets rid of the problem, using what's supposedly the same build of Gecko. It's an Iceweasel-specific problem; the Debian people fscked it up. A pity; the Iceweasel icon's cuter. I shall survive.

I'm on Debian with Iceweasel, and have had no such problem.
Jan 28 2008