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digitalmars.D - =?UTF-8?B?xIYgUHJvZ3JhbW1pbmcgTGFuZ3VhZ2UgLSBDb21waWxlIEMjIHN1YnM=?=

reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/
Jun 16 2013
next sibling parent reply "Rob T" <alanb ucora.com> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 01:29:19 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/

Unfortunately the choice of ć as the name dominates much of the reddit discussion. I just had to mention it, because I too thought there was a glitch concerning the "c". Also unfortunate is that it's written in C# and requires acrobatics to run on a Linux machine, yet it ironically aims to be for writing "very portable programming libraries". I'm left scratching my head ... --rt
Jun 16 2013
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/16/2013 11:31 PM, Aleksandar Ruzicic wrote:
 It's just not easily searchable!

I beg to differ: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/cak93zw
Jun 17 2013
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/17/2013 6:53 AM, Aleksandar Ruzicic wrote:
 Oh, on second read I see you were talking about autocomplete box. I've disabled
 that feature long ago..

I like the autocomplete box. I use it as a spell checker :-) Anyhow, I think the days of D being hard to search for are past.
Jun 17 2013
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/17/2013 2:03 PM, Rob T wrote:
 On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 18:12:12 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/17/2013 6:53 AM, Aleksandar Ruzicic wrote:
 Oh, on second read I see you were talking about autocomplete box. I've disabled
 that feature long ago..

I like the autocomplete box. I use it as a spell checker :-) Anyhow, I think the days of D being hard to search for are past.

Don't be fooled by the Google search history, it records everything you do and attempts to give you what you already expect from previous searches, (it also attempts to do targeted advertising), so what works well for you may not work for others. To find out what Google does to D novices, try browsing through the Tor network. Prob a good idea anyway if you prefer that the NSA should not have your entire Google history too.

I tried it on a machine I never use google on, and I got the same autocomplete results.
Jun 17 2013
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/17/2013 3:04 PM, Rob T wrote:
 On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 21:33:20 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 I tried it on a machine I never use google on, and I got the same autocomplete
 results.

Your complete historical profile is stored on Google's servers, not the individual machine. Did you log into Google, or use the same IP, or anything else that may allow Google's algos to figure out who you are?

No, and I didn't log in, and there are no cookies on it.
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/17/2013 3:04 PM, Rob T wrote:
 On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 21:33:20 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 I tried it on a machine I never use google on, and I got the same autocomplete
 results.

Your complete historical profile is stored on Google's servers, not the individual machine. Did you log into Google, or use the same IP, or anything else that may allow Google's algos to figure out who you are?

Why not try it on your machine and report what the autocomplete says?
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Aleksandar Ruzicic" <aleksandar ruzicic.info> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 06:09:46 UTC, Rob T wrote:
 On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 01:29:19 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/

Unfortunately the choice of ć as the name dominates much of the reddit discussion. I just had to mention it, because I too thought there was a glitch concerning the "c". Also unfortunate is that it's written in C# and requires acrobatics to run on a Linux machine, yet it ironically aims to be for writing "very portable programming libraries". I'm left scratching my head ... --rt

I was pleased to see that there is a language with non-english name, but I share opinion with most of reddit crowd that single-letter name such as Ć (and even D!) is a bad choice for naming a language. It's just not easily searchable! Interestingly, for a school project I've developed a tiny language and stack-based VM for it called Ћ (that's a cyrillic Ć) and just for fun I've also made all keywords cyrilic :D (it was c-like of course, hence the name)
Jun 16 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 06:09:46 UTC, Rob T wrote:
 On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 01:29:19 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/

Unfortunately the choice of ć as the name dominates much of the reddit discussion. I just had to mention it, because I too thought there was a glitch concerning the "c". Also unfortunate is that it's written in C# and requires acrobatics to run on a Linux machine, yet it ironically aims to be for writing "very portable programming libraries". I'm left scratching my head ... --rt

I also don't see much value in it, as it would be better to have something to similar to negen, compiling IL to native code. Thus supporting any language that targets the CLR. -- Paulo
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Aleksandar Ruzicic" <aleksandar ruzicic.info> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 09:34:48 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/16/2013 11:31 PM, Aleksandar Ruzicic wrote:
 It's just not easily searchable!

I beg to differ: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/cak93zw

Sadly, searching for "d la" doesn't give me any D-related result on first page on google or duckduckgo (my default search engine). First hit on Google is for Disability Living Allowance (DLA) for adults and on DDG for Defense Logistics Agency - Home Page. It must be that it works for you because of your search history. When I look for something on D I don't usually search on google or other search engines, I search here at forums, github, stackoverflow or (in the "old" days) on dsource. When I do use search engine I search for dlang and it works. I'm not saying that D is a bad name, it fits more than C++ as a C successor, just that it's not that easy to search for. When I tell people about D I always point them to dlang.org, so they don't go on google first :)
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Aleksandar Ruzicic" <aleksandar ruzicic.info> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 13:47:59 UTC, Aleksandar Ruzicic wrote:
 On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 09:34:48 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/16/2013 11:31 PM, Aleksandar Ruzicic wrote:
 It's just not easily searchable!

I beg to differ: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/cak93zw

Sadly, searching for "d la" doesn't give me any D-related result on first page on google or duckduckgo (my default search engine). First hit on Google is for Disability Living Allowance (DLA) for adults and on DDG for Defense Logistics Agency - Home Page. It must be that it works for you because of your search history. When I look for something on D I don't usually search on google or other search engines, I search here at forums, github, stackoverflow or (in the "old" days) on dsource. When I do use search engine I search for dlang and it works. I'm not saying that D is a bad name, it fits more than C++ as a C successor, just that it's not that easy to search for. When I tell people about D I always point them to dlang.org, so they don't go on google first :)

Oh, on second read I see you were talking about autocomplete box. I've disabled that feature long ago..
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> writes:
On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 06:29:21PM -0700, Walter Bright wrote:
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/

How on earth do you pronounce the name of this language? :-( "Cee acute"? I'm tempted to propose renaming it to C-flat. :-P T -- Stop staring at me like that! You'll offend... no, you'll hurt your eyes!
Jun 17 2013
parent Piotr Szturmaj <bncrbme jadamspam.pl> writes:
W dniu 17.06.2013 22:47, jerro pisze:
 That sounded like "chia", I don't think that's right.

Here's another one http://translate.google.com/#en/sr/%C4%86

Google Translate synthesizes it incorrectly. Ć is spoken as "Ci" when written alone. It's spoken differently (a little shorter) when used in a word, such as "Ćma" (it means moth).
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Aleksandar Ruzicic" <aleksandar ruzicic.info> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 18:15:54 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 06:29:21PM -0700, Walter Bright wrote:
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/

How on earth do you pronounce the name of this language? :-( "Cee acute"? I'm tempted to propose renaming it to C-flat. :-P T

http://translate.google.com/#auto/pl/%C4%86 and hit Listen button in the lower-right corner of second box :)
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 6/17/13, Aleksandar Ruzicic <aleksandar ruzicic.info> wrote:
 http://translate.google.com/#auto/pl/%C4%86 and hit Listen button
 in the lower-right corner of second box :)

That sounded like "chia", I don't think that's right. There's another website which states that "=C4=86" sounds like the beginning of "Church" (a soft "ch"), while =C4=8C sounds like "Chalk" (a hard "ch"). Both are in the Croatian and Serbian alphabet, of course. :p
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "jerro" <a a.com> writes:
 That sounded like "chia", I don't think that's right.

Here's another one http://translate.google.com/#en/sr/%C4%86
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Rob T" <alanb ucora.com> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 18:12:12 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 6/17/2013 6:53 AM, Aleksandar Ruzicic wrote:
 Oh, on second read I see you were talking about autocomplete 
 box. I've disabled
 that feature long ago..

I like the autocomplete box. I use it as a spell checker :-) Anyhow, I think the days of D being hard to search for are past.

Don't be fooled by the Google search history, it records everything you do and attempts to give you what you already expect from previous searches, (it also attempts to do targeted advertising), so what works well for you may not work for others. To find out what Google does to D novices, try browsing through the Tor network. Prob a good idea anyway if you prefer that the NSA should not have your entire Google history too. --rt
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "monarch_dodra" <monarchdodra gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 21:33:20 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 I tried it on a machine I never use google on, and I got the 
 same autocomplete results.

So anybody want to talk about the language? The language seems cool. Anybody tried it? Unfortunatly, it seems it comes with *0* library, making its usage laborious at best. Am I wrong? I didn't see how you could include/import either? I'm curious about how they manage memory for class allocation in C / C++, since they seem to have chosen the reference model. Also, no structs? Anybody know if you can actually write *programs* with this language, or is it really just meant for deploying libraries? Like.. "light" libraries?
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Rob T" <alanb ucora.com> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 21:33:20 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 I tried it on a machine I never use google on, and I got the 
 same autocomplete results.

Your complete historical profile is stored on Google's servers, not the individual machine. Did you log into Google, or use the same IP, or anything else that may allow Google's algos to figure out who you are?
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "MattCoder" <mattcoder hotmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 01:29:19 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/

At least It seems that they hit right on marketing, look how many posts about the language spelling. The name will get that way! :)
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Iain Buclaw <ibuclaw ubuntu.com> writes:
On 17 June 2013 19:14, H. S. Teoh <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 06:29:21PM -0700, Walter Bright wrote:
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/=C4=87_programming_l=


 How on earth do you pronounce the name of this language? :-(  "Cee
 acute"? I'm tempted to propose renaming it to C-flat. :-P

That's a B! :o) In an unrelated (musical) note... a C, an Eb and a G walk into a bar, the bartender says: "Sorry, we don't server minors". A tumbleweed rolls past... -- Iain Buclaw *(p < e ? p++ : p) =3D (c & 0x0f) + '0'
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> writes:
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:40:56AM +0100, Iain Buclaw wrote:
 On 17 June 2013 19:14, H. S. Teoh <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 06:29:21PM -0700, Walter Bright wrote:
 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gfk15/ć_programming_language_compile_c_subset_to_c_java/

How on earth do you pronounce the name of this language? :-( "Cee acute"? I'm tempted to propose renaming it to C-flat. :-P

That's a B! :o) In an unrelated (musical) note... a C, an Eb and a G walk into a bar, the bartender says: "Sorry, we don't server minors".

Bartender? I thought it would be the time signature raising an objection... from extra notes in the bar! :-) T -- Laissez-faire is a French term commonly interpreted by Conservatives to mean 'lazy fairy,' which is the belief that if governments are lazy enough, the Good Fairy will come down from heaven and do all their work for them.
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Rob T" <alanb ucora.com> writes:
On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 23:24:28 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 Why not try it on your machine and report what the autocomplete 
 says?

Through secure Tor network with no history on my end anyway, I typed as far as "d pr" and "d programming" showed up as the second item in the list, so I would also say that D the language is easy to find these days. --rt
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 6/18/13, monarch_dodra <monarchdodra gmail.com> wrote:
 On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 21:33:20 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 I tried it on a machine I never use google on, and I got the
 same autocomplete results.

So anybody want to talk about the language?

I don't see much point in the language. If you limit yourself to a minimalistic language in order for your library to be translatable, how will the API look like in the target languages? It won't use any language-specific features that make APIs easy to uses (for example it likely won't provide any range functionality or templates in D..). You might as well use C, or C++ with some extern "C" API functions. Then you can write a stable API, have full optimizations, and can even distribute the built binaries for some platforms (and you build once per platform, instead of N*platforms * N*languages). Most languages can interface with C too.
Jun 17 2013
prev sibling parent "monarch_dodra" <monarchdodra gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 18 June 2013 at 02:17:19 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
 On 6/18/13, monarch_dodra <monarchdodra gmail.com> wrote:
 On Monday, 17 June 2013 at 21:33:20 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 I tried it on a machine I never use google on, and I got the
 same autocomplete results.

So anybody want to talk about the language?

I don't see much point in the language. If you limit yourself to a minimalistic language in order for your library to be translatable, how will the API look like in the target languages? It won't use any language-specific features that make APIs easy to uses (for example it likely won't provide any range functionality or templates in D..). You might as well use C, or C++ with some extern "C" API functions. Then you can write a stable API, have full optimizations, and can even distribute the built binaries for some platforms (and you build once per platform, instead of N*platforms * N*languages). Most languages can interface with C too.

One of the problems (which is always a pain), is to link the actual C code, which is always a task in itself. Also, as the authors presented it, it can also work for "deployable languages", such a javascript, which wouldn't work with C. It's true the language only has access to the lowest common denominator of features. I hadn't thought about "API stability": indeed, looking through the examples, each language has its own variants in the translation: EG the casing between C# and Java: http://cito.sourceforge.net/hello.html It also seems to be trying to target both GC and non GC languages, which appears to make a mess of things... For example it currently doesn't allow string concatenation. Also, for classes: "new C() allocates new instance of class C and returns a pointer to it. If you target the C programming language, delete the allocated object some time later." Ouch.
Jun 17 2013