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digitalmars.D - Three people out of four dislike SDL

reply retard <re tard.com.invalid> writes:
Just voted at 
http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 
140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for something? 
Sonke?
Nov 30 2015
next sibling parent reply Brad Anderson <eco gnuk.net> writes:
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 
 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
Stop.
Nov 30 2015
parent reply Gordon <me home.com> writes:
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 23:00:16 UTC, Brad Anderson wrote:
 On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 
 - 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
Stop.
Why? Facts not to your liking so you chose to ignore them?
Nov 30 2015
next sibling parent reply rsw0x <anonymous anonymous.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 01:14:05 UTC, Gordon wrote:
 On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 23:00:16 UTC, Brad Anderson 
 wrote:
 On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 
 - 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
Stop.
Why? Facts not to your liking so you chose to ignore them?
If you don't like it, fork it. I'm tired of seeing this stupid discussion, it's a configuration format not a religion. I have probably spent more time picking my font size than setting up dub config files.
Nov 30 2015
next sibling parent deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 03:29:42 UTC, rsw0x wrote:
 On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 01:14:05 UTC, Gordon wrote:
 On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 23:00:16 UTC, Brad Anderson 
 wrote:
 On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 140 votes, 75%
are against SDL. That should count for something? Sonke?
Stop.
Why? Facts not to your liking so you chose to ignore them?
If you don't like it, fork it. I'm tired of seeing this stupid discussion, it's a configuration format not a religion. I have probably spent more time picking my font size than setting up dub config files.
Amen.
Nov 30 2015
prev sibling parent terchestor <terchestor gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 03:29:42 UTC, rsw0x wrote:
 I have probably spent more time picking my font size than 
 setting up dub config files.
So probably you don't need comments in them, do you?
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling parent Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On 11/30/2015 08:14 PM, Gordon wrote:
 On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 23:00:16 UTC, Brad Anderson wrote:
 On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 140
 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for something? Sonke?
Stop.
Why? Facts not to your liking so you chose to ignore them?
Are you sick of people bellyaching over SDLang in DUB? http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565f1bf4e4b0b3955a5a120e
Dec 02 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent Bubbasaur <bubba hotmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 
 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
What's going on here? There is a topic about this already, now another one? If there is a way to delete topics, please start for this one! Bubba.
Nov 30 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
simpledisplay.d can do what SDL does :P

oh wait this is about the other SDL

well I want to talk about simpledisplay. I've been doing a 
documentation book in the ddoc with lots of examples:

http://arsdnet.net/arsd/simpledisplay.html

(similar docs are on the way for cgi, dom, minigui, and 
simpleaudio btw)

I'm so close to being able to replace SDL with just a couple 
little D files - no more annoying DLLs!
Nov 30 2015
next sibling parent reply Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 03:49:09 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
 simpledisplay.d can do what SDL does :P

 oh wait this is about the other SDL

 well I want to talk about simpledisplay. I've been doing a 
 documentation book in the ddoc with lots of examples:

 http://arsdnet.net/arsd/simpledisplay.html

 (similar docs are on the way for cgi, dom, minigui, and 
 simpleaudio btw)

 I'm so close to being able to replace SDL with just a couple 
 little D files - no more annoying DLLs!
Can you write a small, compact, up to speed tutorial once you've finished simpledisplay (set up, basic examples)? I'd love to test it.
Dec 01 2015
parent Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 14:37:18 UTC, Chris wrote:
 Can you write a small, compact, up to speed tutorial once 
 you've finished simpledisplay (set up, basic examples)? I'd 
 love to test it.
Well, simpledisplay itself isn't done, but it works for many things now (and myself and several other users make use of it now). The big change is eventually I am going to change the module name, which is a breaking change, but otherwise I don't have major API changes in mind. (A big addition it needs though is Cocoa Mac OS X support again. It had it years ago then it fell away. I want to redo it when the new ObjC integration in D is done.) But if you copy/paste the examples in the html file you should be able to get started. The code itself is in this collection: https://github.com/adamdruppe/arsd simpledisplay.d and color.d are the two files needed. Then you compile by just adding those two files to your build or I have also made a dub thing for it but I haven't really tested this yet: http://code.dlang.org/packages/arsd-official%3Asimpledisplay/~master I do need to write more docs and tutorials but you can play a little with the examples there - the event viewer is first in the example list to give you an idea of what input it gives, then the Pong game underneath that gives a fairly complete demo of basic drawing and input. It can also do things like create OpenGL contexts, which I have a demo of here: http://arsdnet.net/dcode/book/chapter_12/10/opengl.d (The OpenGL bindings are mostly old, glBegin/glEnd stuff, because that's what I know [!!], but the same context creation works for new functions too so I'm adding that. Just commited a big batch of new stuff yesterday too.) The audio and joystick parts are in my github repo... and basically work, but I'm still not completely happy with them yet.
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling parent reply Marco Leise <Marco.Leise gmx.de> writes:
Am Tue, 01 Dec 2015 03:49:07 +0000
schrieb Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com>:

 simpledisplay.d can do what SDL does :P
 
 oh wait this is about the other SDL
 
 well I want to talk about simpledisplay. I've been doing a 
 documentation book in the ddoc with lots of examples:
 
 http://arsdnet.net/arsd/simpledisplay.html
 
 (similar docs are on the way for cgi, dom, minigui, and 
 simpleaudio btw)
 
 I'm so close to being able to replace SDL with just a couple 
 little D files - no more annoying DLLs!
This is actually good marketing. Everyone into cross-platform graphics knows what to expect from SDL. Most people here heard of simpledisplay, but it remained unclear what the scope is. It can create windows, ok. But by saying the feature set is the same as SDL we know that it will work on OS X, Windows, Linux, handle input from various sources, at least mouse, keyboard and joystick, create OpenGL contexts, handle fullscreen mode etc. E.g. if you are accustomed to the feature set SDL offers and don't want to miss anything you take for granted there, simpledisplay is the way to go. (I assume there is still a bit of functionality missing, but then feature parity with SDL is still the target and you are more likely to add requested features if they are already offered by SDL.) -- Marco
Dec 02 2015
parent Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 17:12:56 UTC, Marco Leise wrote:
 This is actually good marketing. Everyone into cross-platform 
 graphics knows what to expect from SDL. Most people here heard 
 of simpledisplay, but it remained unclear what the scope is.
I'm a bit unclear myself :P sometimes i want to add more and have to tell myself I called it 'simple' for a reason. But:
 same as SDL we know that it will work on OS X, Windows, Linux,
So far, Windows and Linux are implemented. OS X is coming later (I finally have a Mac here so I can test it myself but I don't know Cocoa and am waiting a bit for the D/Obj-c binding to mature a lil more. Probably going to do it in 2016.)
 handle input from various sources, at least mouse, keyboard
Indeed, those work.
 joystick
Provided in an add-on module right now, joystick.d (in my same github)
 create OpenGL contexts
works!
 handle fullscreen mode etc.
Partially works, more coming in the next few months. I also do naked windows in it (no decorations, any size), clipboard, and a few other little things a GUI app might want on the low level. I'm also working on audio (in a separate module, simpleaudio.d) and gui widgets (minigui.d).
Dec 02 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Saurabh Das <saurabh.das gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 
 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
As Sonke had pointed out in the other thread, there was a long process before SDL was adopted and the community was kept informed of it all through. I think everybody in this community had plenty of time and enough number of opportunities to object to SDL if they had any issues with it. See http://forum.dlang.org/post/n36gvd$1lia$1 digitalmars.com It's unfair to criticise SDL at this point after it's been implemented when there was ample opportunity to object earlier. It's not a Douglas Adamsesque "notes were kept in a basement and accessible only after flipping a dice" scenario - in this case, requests for comments were posted in this very forum, on GitHub and elsewhere. Given that JSON is always going to be supported, just use JSON if you are so uncomfortable with SDL.
Nov 30 2015
parent reply terchestor <terchestor gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 04:38:59 UTC, Saurabh Das wrote:
 On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 
 - 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
As Sonke had pointed out in the other thread, there was a long process before SDL was adopted and the community was kept informed of it all through. I think everybody in this community had plenty of time and enough number of opportunities to object to SDL if they had any issues with it. See http://forum.dlang.org/post/n36gvd$1lia$1 digitalmars.com It's unfair to criticise SDL at this point after it's been implemented when there was ample opportunity to object earlier. It's not a Douglas Adamsesque "notes were kept in a basement and accessible only after flipping a dice" scenario - in this case, requests for comments were posted in this very forum, on GitHub and elsewhere.
So now that the work is done we're stuck with it forever? Even though it solves the wrong problem and we're better off without it? How does that argument even work?
 Given that JSON is always going to be supported, just use JSON 
 if you are so uncomfortable with SDL.
In a fair world the default should be JSON and SDL should be phased out. I do appreciate that people are nice with Sonke-who clearly botched this one. If Walter made this one everybody would threaten to leave D forever and want his head on a spike. But the mistake must be fixed anyway.
Dec 01 2015
next sibling parent reply Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 13:40:59 UTC, terchestor wrote:
 botched this one. If Walter made this one everybody would 
 threaten to leave D forever and want his head on a spike. But 
 the mistake must be fixed anyway.
You seriously think DUB is D's biggest problem? You don't even need it to make use of D.
Dec 01 2015
parent "H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d" <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 01, 2015 at 01:43:41PM +0000, Ola Fosheim GrÝstad via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
 On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 13:40:59 UTC, terchestor wrote:
botched this one. If Walter made this one everybody would threaten to
leave D forever and want his head on a spike. But the mistake must be
fixed anyway.
You seriously think DUB is D's biggest problem? You don't even need it to make use of D.
I find this whole debate hilarious, actually. We aren't even talking about D itself, but about a tool that not everyone who uses D uses (I don't use dub and don't see any future scenario where I might need to use it), and that, a silly *configuration syntax* for said tool, and an *optional* one at that. Seriously, you can't get closer to Parkinson's law of triviality[1] than that. This isn't about semantics (that nobody understands nor cares about, being the most pertinent issue in a programming language and all that), not even the syntax of D itself, but about the (optional!) syntax of an optional(!) tool that some people use with D, and we're getting all worked up like the world is about to end or something. Simply hilarious. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law_of_triviality T -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? -- Michael Beibl
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling parent reply Saurabh Das <saurabh.das gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 13:40:59 UTC, terchestor wrote:
 On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 04:38:59 UTC, Saurabh Das wrote:
 On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 
 - 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
As Sonke had pointed out in the other thread, there was a long process before SDL was adopted and the community was kept informed of it all through. I think everybody in this community had plenty of time and enough number of opportunities to object to SDL if they had any issues with it. See http://forum.dlang.org/post/n36gvd$1lia$1 digitalmars.com It's unfair to criticise SDL at this point after it's been implemented when there was ample opportunity to object earlier. It's not a Douglas Adamsesque "notes were kept in a basement and accessible only after flipping a dice" scenario - in this case, requests for comments were posted in this very forum, on GitHub and elsewhere.
So now that the work is done we're stuck with it forever? Even though it solves the wrong problem and we're better off without it? How does that argument even work?
 Given that JSON is always going to be supported, just use JSON 
 if you are so uncomfortable with SDL.
In a fair world the default should be JSON and SDL should be phased out. I do appreciate that people are nice with Sonke-who clearly botched this one. If Walter made this one everybody would threaten to leave D forever and want his head on a spike. But the mistake must be fixed anyway.
I didn't say that it should or should not be fixed - that is a separate discussion entirely. Personally I don't find SDL so hot, but I'm okay with using it if needed. It's just a config format after all. Why does it evoke such a strong reaction? SDL or JSON both are perfectly fine. My point is that it's unfair to criticise Sonke now - who has kept the community abreast of the proposed changes and did not get any feedback on this during the during the many calls for comments and suggestions to be now told that 75% of the community doesn't like the change. Where was 75% of the community when the change was in the open for discussion and amendment? Development doesn't happen in an isolated shell. Timely and thought out feedback and criticism is much required. Sonke sought it and unfortunately received none of that from us in this matter, so the fault is equally ours.
Dec 01 2015
parent reply Timon Gehr <timon.gehr gmx.ch> writes:
On 12/01/2015 03:01 PM, Saurabh Das wrote:
 now told that 75% of the community doesn't like the change.
I'm sorry to enter this discussion, but that's simply not what the poll is saying. It should be very obvious that the poll is basically meaningless.
Dec 01 2015
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/01/2015 09:18 AM, Timon Gehr wrote:
 On 12/01/2015 03:01 PM, Saurabh Das wrote:
 now told that 75% of the community doesn't like the change.
I'm sorry to enter this discussion, but that's simply not what the poll is saying. It should be very obvious that the poll is basically meaningless.
Independent on the topic at hand - wondering what your reasoning is. I just took a look and there are 205 votes. Not a large number, but quite a lot more than any voting we saw in the past (when consensus was proclaimed after like 15 votes :o)). Intuitively I agree with you, but I wonder at what point numbers become large enough to capture meaning. Thx! -- Andrei
Dec 01 2015
next sibling parent bachmeier <no spam.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 17:26:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
 On 12/01/2015 09:18 AM, Timon Gehr wrote:
 On 12/01/2015 03:01 PM, Saurabh Das wrote:
 now told that 75% of the community doesn't like the change.
I'm sorry to enter this discussion, but that's simply not what the poll is saying. It should be very obvious that the poll is basically meaningless.
Independent on the topic at hand - wondering what your reasoning is. I just took a look and there are 205 votes. Not a large number, but quite a lot more than any voting we saw in the past (when consensus was proclaimed after like 15 votes :o)). Intuitively I agree with you, but I wonder at what point numbers become large enough to capture meaning. Thx! -- Andrei
One possibility is that you have to care enough to vote. It's hard to imagine that there is symmetry between those that dislike the new format and those that don't. And some members of the community don't even use Dub. On other matters, 15 votes is fine, if they're the ones that care and have the background to form an opinion.
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent BLM768 <blm768 gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 17:26:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
 Independent on the topic at hand - wondering what your 
 reasoning is. I just took a look and there are 205 votes. Not a 
 large number, but quite a lot more than any voting we saw in 
 the past (when consensus was proclaimed after like 15 votes 
 :o)). Intuitively I agree with you, but I wonder at what point 
 numbers become large enough to capture meaning. Thx! -- Andrei
Time for a proportion Z-test! Assuming that this poll represents a simple random sample (which it almost certainly doesn't, but it's the best we have), let's test the claim that at least 50% of the community dislikes the SDL format. For reference, I'm using the poll data at the time of this post: 124 for, 145 against. According to my calculations, at a 95% confidence level, there's not sufficient evidence to reject the hypothesis that at least 50% of the community dislikes the new format. However, FWIW, we can say with very high confidence that at least 25% of the whole community likes the new format.
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Bubbasaur <bubba hotmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 17:26:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
 Independent on the topic at hand - wondering what your 
 reasoning is. I just took a look and there are 205 votes. Not a 
 large number, but quite a lot more than any voting we saw in 
 the past (when consensus was proclaimed after like 15 votes 
 :o)). Intuitively I agree with you, but I wonder at what point 
 numbers become large enough to capture meaning. Thx! -- Andrei
Really, do really believe in what you wrote? So if you take a look right now, the "YES" option for the question: "Do you like new DUB config format?" Is somehow "magically" winning the poll right now! Bubba.
Dec 01 2015
next sibling parent BLM768 <blm768 gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 18:25:06 UTC, Bubbasaur wrote:
 Really, do really believe in what you wrote?

 So if you take a look right now, the "YES" option for the 
 question: "Do you like new

 DUB config format?" Is somehow "magically" winning the poll 
 right now!

 Bubba.
Huh. That changed quickly. My Z-test is already out of date. ;)
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling parent reply CraigDillabaugh <craig.dillabaugh gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 18:25:06 UTC, Bubbasaur wrote:
 On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 17:26:13 UTC, Andrei 
 Alexandrescu wrote:
clip
 So if you take a look right now, the "YES" option for the 
 question: "Do you like new

 DUB config format?" Is somehow "magically" winning the poll 
 right now!

 Bubba.
Hooray, way to go SDLang!!!!!! I think what SDL needs is a re-branding! A few options: (S)imple (D)ead (L)anguage (D)ead (S)imple (L)anguage (Google's not going to like that either) (S)onke (D)on't (L)ike JSON
Dec 01 2015
parent reply Bubbasaur <bubba hotmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 19:05:38 UTC, CraigDillabaugh 
wrote:
 (S)onke (D)on't (L)ike JSON
Hey, you can make all joke you want, but please don't be harsh with Sonke, because his contribution is awesome, and back then, he asked for direction and people pointed SDLang. Bubba.
Dec 01 2015
parent reply CraigDillabaugh <craig.dillabaugh gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 19:15:25 UTC, Bubbasaur wrote:
 On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 19:05:38 UTC, CraigDillabaugh 
 wrote:
 (S)onke (D)on't (L)ike JSON
Hey, you can make all joke you want, but please don't be harsh with Sonke, because his contribution is awesome, and back then, he asked for direction and people pointed SDLang. Bubba.
Sorry if that came off as a dig at Sonke, it was not intended as such. I prefer SDL to JSON and thus was very happy with his decision, so I consider myself one of his supporters in this case ... and it just happened to fit with SDL.
Dec 01 2015
parent reply Gary Willoughby <dev nomad.so> writes:
<sarcasm>I think the default should be the obscure, hipster 
language that no-one has heard of and who's website is currently 
offline[1]. Using this language for dub configuration should 
increase the barrier-to-entry just enough to weed out the soft 
programmers who we don't need using D. Json is far too easy to 
learn and too many IDE's support it. We want real programmers who 
like hard work, damn it!</sarcasm>

[1]: http://sdl.ikayzo.org/display/SDL/Language+Guide
Dec 01 2015
next sibling parent reply Craig Dillabaugh <craig.dillabaugh gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 23:34:12 UTC, Gary Willoughby 
wrote:
 <sarcasm>I think the default should be the obscure, hipster 
 language that no-one has heard of and who's website is 
 currently offline[1]. Using this language for dub configuration 
 should increase the barrier-to-entry just enough to weed out 
 the soft programmers who we don't need using D. Json is far too 
 easy to learn and too many IDE's support it. We want real 
 programmers who like hard work, damn it!</sarcasm>

 [1]: http://sdl.ikayzo.org/display/SDL/Language+Guide
Thats why I want to rename it Simple Dead Language. Honestly though there is nothing to 'Learn'. You look at the examples and write your config file. Honestly, when you are editing the text based configuration file for some software do you seriously even ask yourself "What language is this written in". Unless it is XML or JSON you would likely never know, and wouldn't bother to look it up. For example what language is Nginx's config written in: https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/understanding-the-nginx-configuration-file-structure-and-configuration-contexts I have no idea! And with SDL if you have a problem you can write a comment to yourself explaining how it works once you figure it out. While JSON supposedly supports comments anyone who can't figure out SDL syntax clearly isn't smart enough to write comments in a JSON file :o)
Dec 01 2015
next sibling parent rsw0x <anonymous anonymous.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 01:10:07 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh 
wrote:
 On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 23:34:12 UTC, Gary Willoughby 
 wrote:
 [...]
Thats why I want to rename it Simple Dead Language. [...]
If it was to be renamed, I would much prefer an initialism not already taken.
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling parent reply Guillaume Piolat <first.last gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 01:10:07 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh 
wrote:
 For example what language is Nginx's config written in:

 https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/understanding-the-nginx-configuration-file-structure-and-configuration-contexts
A lot of web servers, IRC bouncer, FTP server, etc. comes with their own configuration format, it doesn't create much problems. Very often these formats are nicer than plain JSON. Learning SDLang being a chore is a bit overblown really.
Dec 02 2015
parent reply Gary Willoughby <dev nomad.so> writes:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 10:22:12 UTC, Guillaume Piolat 
wrote:
 Learning SDLang being a chore is a bit overblown really.
I think everyone agrees learning SDL is pretty straightforward. I think the feeling are that it is yet another (unnecessary) barrier to entry when using D and its tools.
Dec 02 2015
parent reply Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Wed, 2015-12-02 at 12:00 +0000, Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
 On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 10:22:12 UTC, Guillaume Piolat=20
 wrote:
 Learning SDLang being a chore is a bit overblown really.
=20 I think everyone agrees learning SDL is pretty straightforward. I=20 think the feeling are that it is yet another (unnecessary)=20 barrier to entry when using D and its tools.
a. I think this is the third loop round the same content with a slightly different group of contributors each time. b. FFS the SDL syntax is so trivial a 2 year old could comprehend it =E2=80= =93 which is the whole point. c. Neither SDL nor JSON will be a barrier to anyone coming to D especially if they use rdmd. Unless, of course, the D community decide to use the obvious complexity of SDL and JSON a weapon in the fight to keep new people out of the D community. --=20 Russel. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n= et 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Dec 02 2015
parent reply Namal <sotis22 mail.ru> writes:
What is this SDL? Do I need to understand this as a newb?
Dec 02 2015
parent Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 14:25:02 UTC, Namal wrote:
 What is this SDL? Do I need to understand this as a newb?
Package format description for DUB: http://code.dlang.org/package-format?lang=sdl It's not rocket science. You can have the same functionality in JSON, if you want.
Dec 02 2015
prev sibling parent Kagamin <spam here.lot> writes:
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 23:34:12 UTC, Gary Willoughby 
wrote:
 Json is far too easy to learn and too many IDE's support it.
Not Visual Studio 2013. In terms of support XML beats anything.
Dec 02 2015
prev sibling parent reply Timon Gehr <timon.gehr gmx.ch> writes:
On 12/01/2015 06:26 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 12/01/2015 09:18 AM, Timon Gehr wrote:
 On 12/01/2015 03:01 PM, Saurabh Das wrote:
 now told that 75% of the community doesn't like the change.
I'm sorry to enter this discussion, but that's simply not what the poll is saying. It should be very obvious that the poll is basically meaningless.
Independent on the topic at hand - wondering what your reasoning is. I just took a look and there are 205 votes. Not a large number, but quite a lot more than any voting we saw in the past (when consensus was proclaimed after like 15 votes :o)). Intuitively I agree with you, but I wonder at what point numbers become large enough to capture meaning. Thx! -- Andrei
It's a question of process. When a poll should return results meaningful for motivating plans of action, it is conducted in roughly the following manner: 0. It is decided that a poll makes sense. (Ideally by means previously agreed upon.) 1. The consequences of the different outcomes are specified. 2. Arguments for each option are made available. (Somewhat optional, but there certainly shouldn't be any bias and/or vitriol in the original announcement!) 3. Steps are taken to ensure everyone affected gets a reasonable chance to vote. (Ideally, those who are not affected should not be allowed to vote, but that is hard to enforce in practice.) 4. The voting takes place, with a deadline defined well in advance. 5. The consequences that were initially specified are applied (after the poll has closed). To support those points, just re-check the results. Since this thread has started (with a suggestion to take actions based on the poll), the answers have basically evened out. It is currently at 48% vs 52%: http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 This effect wasn't as strong when I wrote my previous post, but it does not surprise me at all. I myself have still not taken the poll of the troll, and I am quite confident that there are others with a similar stance.
Dec 02 2015
next sibling parent reply Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 12:40:59 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote:
 It's a question of process. When a poll should return results 
 meaningful for motivating plans of action, it is conducted in 
 roughly the following manner:

 0. It is decided that a poll makes sense. (Ideally by means 
 previously agreed upon.)
 1. The consequences of the different outcomes are specified.
 2. Arguments for each option are made available. (Somewhat 
 optional, but there certainly shouldn't be any bias and/or 
 vitriol in the original announcement!)
 3. Steps are taken to ensure everyone affected gets a 
 reasonable chance to vote. (Ideally, those who are not affected 
 should not be allowed to vote, but that is hard to enforce in 
 practice.)
 4. The voting takes place, with a deadline defined well in 
 advance.
 5. The consequences that were initially specified are applied 
 (after the poll has closed).

 To support those points, just re-check the results. Since this 
 thread has started (with a suggestion to take actions based on 
 the poll), the answers have basically evened out. It is 
 currently at 48% vs 52%:

 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67

 This effect wasn't as strong when I wrote my previous post, but 
 it does not surprise me at all. I myself have still not taken 
 the poll of the troll, and I am quite confident that there are 
 others with a similar stance.
I, for my part, didn't vote and do not intend to do so. We need a pragmatic solution, not a subjective opinion poll. A pragmatic solution, imo, would be to revert dub to default to JSON, and keep SDL as a second option (which will be convertible to JSON with the next version anyway). The less-known format should be the second option, not the default.
Dec 02 2015
next sibling parent Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 12:53:02 UTC, Chris wrote:
 On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 12:40:59 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote:
 [...]
I, for my part, didn't vote and do not intend to do so. We need a pragmatic solution, not a subjective opinion poll. A pragmatic solution, imo, would be to revert dub to default to JSON, and keep SDL as a second option (which will be convertible to JSON with the next version anyway). The less-known format should be the second option, not the default.
s/less-known/lesser known/
Dec 02 2015
prev sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/02/2015 07:53 AM, Chris wrote:
 A pragmatic solution, imo, would be to revert dub to default to JSON,
 and keep SDL as a second option (which will be convertible to JSON with
 the next version anyway).
That seems most reasonable. Would this work for everybody? May we do this and close the case? -- Andrei
Dec 02 2015
prev sibling parent reply Timon Gehr <timon.gehr gmx.ch> writes:
On 12/02/2015 01:40 PM, Timon Gehr wrote:
 Since this thread has started (with a suggestion to take actions based
 on the poll), the answers have basically evened out. It is currently at
 48% vs 52%:

 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67

 This effect wasn't as strong when I wrote my previous post, but it does
 not surprise me at all.
(BTW: It is quite obvious that the poll has been tampered with at least once.)
Dec 02 2015
parent David DeWitt <dkdewitt gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 13:07:20 UTC, Timon Gehr wrote:
 On 12/02/2015 01:40 PM, Timon Gehr wrote:
 Since this thread has started (with a suggestion to take 
 actions based
 on the poll), the answers have basically evened out. It is 
 currently at
 48% vs 52%:

 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67

 This effect wasn't as strong when I wrote my previous post, 
 but it does
 not surprise me at all.
(BTW: It is quite obvious that the poll has been tampered with at least once.)
Vote, delete cookie, repeat....
Dec 02 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 
 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
"To make a long thread short, the probable take-aways are dub might switch back to defaulting to json, though sdlang will probably not be removed. We need also better communication about decisions in the community to avoid these kind of after-the-fact misconceptions in the future." http://arsdnet.net/this-week-in-d/nov-29.html End of.
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent Bubbasaur <bubba hotmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 
 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
If you believe that, the votes changes "dramagically" and now it's 53% in favor of SDLang. Bubba.
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent user <user yahoo.com> writes:
It all started here ....

http://forum.dlang.org/post/evxhpxfkeorrrkhqzzdo forum.dlang.org
:-)

... or one of the posts in that thread, I mean.
Dec 01 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent Chris <wendlec tcd.ie> writes:
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 
 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
Why didn't you offer "Don't know" or "Don't care" as an option?
Dec 02 2015
prev sibling parent Luis <luis.panadero gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 22:59:04 UTC, retard wrote:
 Just voted at 
 http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=565587f4e4b0b3955a59fb67 - 
 140 votes, 75% are against SDL. That should count for 
 something? Sonke?
Last time that I look it, there was a 51% of people saying that like SDlang.. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Dec 03 2015