www.digitalmars.com         C & C++   DMDScript  

digitalmars.D - The exe generated by dmd unable pass Malware scan

reply "Eric Suen" <eric.suen.tech gmail.com> writes:
Hi,

Any exe generated by dmd 1.024 unable pass Virus and Malware scan

by http://www.virustotal.com/, it report:

Ikarus T3.1.1.12 2007.12.10 MalwareScope.Worm.Warezov.3
Prevx1 V2        2007.12.10 Heuristic: Suspicious Self Modifying File

anyone has same issue, or there are something wrong on my computer?

Eric
Dec 10 2007
next sibling parent reply Daniel Keep <daniel.keep.lists gmail.com> writes:
Eric Suen wrote:
 Hi,
 
 Any exe generated by dmd 1.024 unable pass Virus and Malware scan
 
 by http://www.virustotal.com/, it report:
 
 Ikarus T3.1.1.12 2007.12.10 MalwareScope.Worm.Warezov.3
 Prevx1 V2        2007.12.10 Heuristic: Suspicious Self Modifying File
 
 anyone has same issue, or there are something wrong on my computer?
 
 Eric

I can confirm the above results with DMD 1.023 and the following program: import std.stdio; void main() { writefln("Hello, World!"); } -- Daniel
Dec 10 2007
parent reply "Eric Suen" <eric.suen.tech gmail.com> writes:
 Hi,

 Any exe generated by dmd 1.024 unable pass Virus and Malware scan

 by http://www.virustotal.com/, it report:

 Ikarus T3.1.1.12 2007.12.10 MalwareScope.Worm.Warezov.3
 Prevx1 V2        2007.12.10 Heuristic: Suspicious Self Modifying File

 anyone has same issue, or there are something wrong on my computer?

 Eric

I can confirm the above results with DMD 1.023 and the following program: import std.stdio; void main() { writefln("Hello, World!"); } -- Daniel

So, what is that suppose to means, it was reported by mistake or dmd has problem? I really don't want my program be treated as Malware, or all programs write by D be treated as Malware... Eric
Dec 10 2007
parent reply novice2 <sorry noem.ail> writes:
Eric Suen Wrote:

 Ikarus T3.1.1.12 2007.12.10 MalwareScope.Worm.Warezov.3
 Prevx1 V2        2007.12.10 Heuristic: Suspicious Self Modifying File



   So, what is that suppose to means, it was reported by mistake
 or dmd has problem? I really don't want my program be treated as

imho, you should write complain email to authors of Ikarus and Prevx, so they can fix their inaccurate signatures and "heuristic". imho, this is normal situation. i so such problem for other antivir products and for other file types (even non-exe). even i hope you can see that problem desappeared without your actions after some time period after some antivir bases updates.
Dec 10 2007
parent Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
novice2 wrote:
 Eric Suen Wrote:
 
 Ikarus T3.1.1.12 2007.12.10 MalwareScope.Worm.Warezov.3
 Prevx1 V2        2007.12.10 Heuristic: Suspicious Self Modifying File



   So, what is that suppose to means, it was reported by mistake
 or dmd has problem? I really don't want my program be treated as

imho, you should write complain email to authors of Ikarus and Prevx, so they can fix their inaccurate signatures and "heuristic". imho, this is normal situation. i so such problem for other antivir products and for other file types (even non-exe). even i hope you can see that problem desappeared without your actions after some time period after some antivir bases updates.

I'd say go to the source. Complain to the authors of the Warezov virus and tell them to change their code or not write their malware in D.
Dec 10 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org> writes:
On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 20:51:08 +1100
Daniel Keep <daniel.keep.lists gmail.com> wrote:

 I can confirm the above results with DMD 1.023 and the following
 program:
 
 import std.stdio;
 void main() { writefln("Hello, World!"); }

'Tis the new bloody hello.world virus!1 Take cover! -- Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org>
Dec 10 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Eric Suen wrote:
 Any exe generated by dmd 1.024 unable pass Virus and Malware scan
 
 by http://www.virustotal.com/, it report:
 
 Ikarus T3.1.1.12 2007.12.10 MalwareScope.Worm.Warezov.3
 Prevx1 V2        2007.12.10 Heuristic: Suspicious Self Modifying File
 
 anyone has same issue, or there are something wrong on my computer?

Since dmd generated executables don't have self-modifying code in them, the scanners are buggy.
Dec 10 2007
next sibling parent reply "Eric Suen" <eric.suen.tech gmail.com> writes:
"Walter Bright"
 Eric Suen wrote:
 Any exe generated by dmd 1.024 unable pass Virus and Malware scan

 by http://www.virustotal.com/, it report:

 Ikarus T3.1.1.12 2007.12.10 MalwareScope.Worm.Warezov.3
 Prevx1 V2        2007.12.10 Heuristic: Suspicious Self Modifying File

 anyone has same issue, or there are something wrong on my computer?

Since dmd generated executables don't have self-modifying code in them, the scanners are buggy.

This is really embarrassing situation, what if a hacker write a real Malware using D language and using this as excuse? Because now this is not the problem of one program, this is about all the exe generated by dmd have the same problem. In the end it will harm the D language itself... This is the report of the dmc.zip has the same problem... http://www.virustotal.com/resultado.html?f20046857b1831dc0d559116ada684d7 Eric
Dec 11 2007
next sibling parent reply Matti Niemenmaa <see_signature for.real.address> writes:
Eric Suen wrote:
 "Walter Bright"
 Eric Suen wrote:
 Any exe generated by dmd 1.024 unable pass Virus and Malware scan
 
 by http://www.virustotal.com/, it report:
 
 Ikarus T3.1.1.12 2007.12.10 MalwareScope.Worm.Warezov.3 Prevx1 V2 
 2007.12.10 Heuristic: Suspicious Self Modifying File
 
 anyone has same issue, or there are something wrong on my computer?

Since dmd generated executables don't have self-modifying code in them, the scanners are buggy.

This is really embarrassing situation, what if a hacker write a real Malware using D language and using this as excuse? Because now this is not the problem of one program, this is about all the exe generated by dmd have the same problem. In the end it will harm the D language itself...

Bull. As a test, I compiled the following two programs using DMC: C program: main(){printf("Hello, world!\n");} C++ program: #include <iostream> main(){std::cout << "Hello, world!\n" << std::endl;} Both give the same results at virustotal.com. ( http://www.virustotal.com/resultado.html?7cea308e6efc369ecce29f36643cb026 and http://www.virustotal.com/resultado.html?d4a22dc322ff2b90da03bbf9d8fe8ee7 ) Are C and C++ "harmed" because two virus scanners (and not even the better ones, like Kaspersky) don't like the code a specific compiler produces? I don't think so. If you want to perform a manual analysis of the generated asm to make sure it doesn't do anything malicious, feel free. I won't bother. -- E-mail address: matti.niemenmaa+news, domain is iki (DOT) fi
Dec 11 2007
parent reply "Eric Suen" <eric.suen.tech gmail.com> writes:
 Are C and C++ "harmed" because two virus scanners (and not even the better 
 ones,
 like Kaspersky) don't like the code a specific compiler produces? I don't 
 think so.

Beside C and C++ are mantained by a standard not a person...
 If you want to perform a manual analysis of the generated asm to make sure it
 doesn't do anything malicious, feel free. I won't bother.

from: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/prevx.com http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/digitalmars.com Seems the people using prevx are much more than the people using dmc or dmd, and my program is for these kinds of user, not the one like you who can analysis asm. Is there anyone using D language write freeware/commercial program, will the software download site like: download.com/softpedia.com mark it as clean software or whatever? Eric
Dec 11 2007
next sibling parent reply Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
David Wilson wrote:
 (I'd
 suggest Symantec if they insist on using something as 20th century as
 a virus scanner)

I don't have much idea of what I'm talking about, but I can say that a) Symantec products are generally considered terrible b) Virus scanners are very useful in th modern world; when did they ever stop being so? c) This stuff matters to clients, whom are more likely to trust a virus scanner than a software developer.
Dec 11 2007
next sibling parent Yigal Chripun <yigal100 gmail.com> writes:
Robert Fraser wrote:
 David Wilson wrote:
 (I'd
 suggest Symantec if they insist on using something as 20th century as
 a virus scanner)

I don't have much idea of what I'm talking about, but I can say that a) Symantec products are generally considered terrible b) Virus scanners are very useful in th modern world; when did they ever stop being so? c) This stuff matters to clients, whom are more likely to trust a virus scanner than a software developer.

I can't argue with your first point, however, regarding the second point: for people who use a (more) secure computer environment a virus scanner is indeed something from the 20th century. like the saying goes - "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". simply put in terms of secure systems: bsd variants >= linux >> windows. and from what David wrote in his post he doesn't have a windows installation. I for one await the truly secure systems of the future (which can be proven to be secure). take a look at coyotos.org for such an effort. --Yigal
Dec 11 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:09:07 +0100, Alexander Panek wrote:

 On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:35:47 -0800
 Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> wrote:
 
 b) Virus scanners are very useful in th modern world; when did they
 ever stop being so?

Even though it is out of context: I haven't ever found a need for a "virus" scanner (the word virus in this context is hilarious) apart from the time where I was searching for cracks for games using IE 5 on Windows 98 when I was a kid. Point being: don't use malware or software that enables malware by default. Then you also don't need resource-sucking software like virus/malware scanners.

I'm guessing you don't have teenage sons? -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 12 2007
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Derek Parnell wrote:
 I'm guessing you don't have teenage sons?

The best defense there is give them their own computer, and periodically wipe the disk and reinstall on it. Never let them use your computer <g>.
Dec 13 2007
parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:08:19 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:

 Derek Parnell wrote:
 I'm guessing you don't have teenage sons?

The best defense there is give them their own computer, and periodically wipe the disk and reinstall on it. Never let them use your computer <g>.

LOL ... That is exactly what I did. He now has a much better machine that I have ... something to do with WoW. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 13 2007
next sibling parent Daniel Keep <daniel.keep.lists gmail.com> writes:
Derek Parnell wrote:
 On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:08:19 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:
 
 Derek Parnell wrote:
 I'm guessing you don't have teenage sons?

wipe the disk and reinstall on it. Never let them use your computer <g>.

LOL ... That is exactly what I did. He now has a much better machine that I have ... something to do with WoW.

Careful. WoW is like a cancer. First, it starts by eating up your internet bandwidth. Then it starts consuming you cash monies by way of continual upgrades, building ever more powerful machines to keep pace with the increasingly complex and resource-hungry UI modifications. Before you know it, he's living off Coke and Pizza, raiding at 3 AM to keep up with the Yanks in the guild. His every waking moment will be seen through a third-person stylised lens. Coffee will confer a buff, your wrath is nothing but an elite mob to be trained onto his little brother. His life will revolve around getting ploot and rep farming. It will eat him alive. Not that I... y'know... know from personal experience or anything... -- Daniel (who totally doesn't have a dozen characters)
Dec 13 2007
prev sibling parent "Bruce Adams" <tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk> writes:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:24:10 -0000, Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> wrote:

 On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:08:19 -0800, Walter Bright wrote:

 Derek Parnell wrote:
 I'm guessing you don't have teenage sons?

The best defense there is give them their own computer, and periodically wipe the disk and reinstall on it. Never let them use your computer <g>.

LOL ... That is exactly what I did. He now has a much better machine that I have ... something to do with WoW.

Memetic viruses are the worst sort.
Dec 13 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
Alexander Panek wrote:
 On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:35:47 -0800
 Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> wrote:
 
 b) Virus scanners are very useful in th modern world; when did they
 ever stop being so?

Even though it is out of context: I haven't ever found a need for a "virus" scanner (the word virus in this context is hilarious) apart from the time where I was searching for cracks for games using IE 5 on Windows 98 when I was a kid. Point being: don't use malware or software that enables malware by default. Then you also don't need resource-sucking software like virus/malware scanners.

I agree that for users like us, malware scanners aren't too useful. However, there are a lot of people out there who would still open that mysterious attachment called "that document you requested.exe", which still makes a scanner useful both for ens users and for system administrators as a first line of defense.
Dec 12 2007
prev sibling parent "Bruce Adams" <tortoise_74 yeah.who.co.uk> writes:
On Wed, 12 Dec 2007 09:09:07 -0000, Alexander Panek  
<alexander.panek brainsware.org> wrote:

 On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:35:47 -0800
 Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> wrote:

 b) Virus scanners are very useful in th modern world; when did they
 ever stop being so?

Even though it is out of context: I haven't ever found a need for a "virus" scanner (the word virus in this context is hilarious) apart from the time where I was searching for cracks for games using IE 5 on Windows 98 when I was a kid. Point being: don't use malware or software that enables malware by default. Then you also don't need resource-sucking software like virus/malware scanners.

That is only one method of infection. There are plenty of viruses (and hackers) that scan for open ports and exploit bugs like buffer over-runs to get in. The hackers and viruses may be ahead of your security patches, though M$ are getting better at that. Once something has got in you need to know about it. Its all very well having skin (firewall) to protect us from bugs in the real world but we need an immune system (malware scanner) as well. Its a belt and braces thing. Of course, on linux your skin is more like a spacesuit so there's less to worry about. Less virus writers and a less flawed security model.
Dec 13 2007
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Eric Suen wrote:
 Then how do you explain it to your client?

I'd tell them that Digital Mars has been distributing dmc for 7 years to hundreds of thousands of users without a single incident of shipping malware. I'd also tell them that 100% of the source code for dmc generated executables is available for anyone to examine (if they buy the DMC++ CD).
Dec 13 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent "David Wilson" <dw botanicus.net> writes:
On 12/12/07, Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> wrote:
 Alexander Panek wrote:
 On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:35:47 -0800
 Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> wrote:

 b) Virus scanners are very useful in th modern world; when did they
 ever stop being so?

Even though it is out of context: I haven't ever found a need for a "virus" scanner (the word virus in this context is hilarious) apart from the time where I was searching for cracks for games using IE 5 on Windows 98 when I was a kid. Point being: don't use malware or software that enables malware by default. Then you also don't need resource-sucking software like virus/malware scanners.

I agree that for users like us, malware scanners aren't too useful. However, there are a lot of people out there who would still open that mysterious attachment called "that document you requested.exe", which still makes a scanner useful both for ens users and for system administrators as a first line of defense.

I often make a point of removing virus checkers / "security suites" from people's computers when I'm asked to fix a problem. The resulting lack of "PORT SCAN PORT 123!!!!" and "DONT FORGET TO REGISTER!!z0r!!" pop-ups gives the end user more wellbeing than the virus checker ever could. For any time where I would have use of a virus checker in the past 7 years, the virus checker has been unable to quarantine, among others, Nimda and Slammer, for which a specialist tool was required. Even trivial malware these days know how to disable, suspend, or otherwise thwart the operation of popular virus checkers. For example, certain products have (at least in the past) waited on a named global event to allow the uninstaller to signal time to shut down if the user chooses to uninstall. It is trivial (3 lines of code trivial) with the Windows API to signal such an event. For the cases where the virus checker could still run successfully, the malware was not fully removed because the virus checker was unable to detect every copy of it (I believe it's possible to lock a file or process up on Windows such that it becomes effectively inaccessible except to itself - for example, some software will start a "debugger" on itself such that no other process can use that API. The filesystem can apparently be similarly tricked). For more structured environments, Windows has supported locking down executed code by md5sum or Authenticode since at least Windows 2000. As another example, a certain free checker, Clam-AV for Windows, has no form of mandatory access control or on-demand scanning. It happily sticks a little system tray applet on your machine that makes it look like a scanner is in operation. Actually it pretty much does nothing. Again - virus checkers are often reactionary snake oil that help nobody. Even the free stuff like Spybot S&D often does a better job of fixing the kinds of problem most users come across when they catch an infection. The places where this isn't true are places that are less affected by the lead-time required for an AV vendor to put out a useful update - mail servers for example. David.
Dec 13 2007
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Eric Suen wrote:
 This is the report of the dmc.zip has the same problem...
 
 http://www.virustotal.com/resultado.html?f20046857b1831dc0d559116ada684d7

"Suspicious archive structure" ?? It's an ordinary, freakin' zip file! This reminds me of the windows exe file compressor that would generate crashing exe files from files linked by optlink. For years, people emailed me telling me it was a bug in optlink. Turned out, it was a bug in the exe compressor. Optlink exe files worked perfectly in all versions of Windows.
Dec 13 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "David Wilson" <dw botanicus.net> writes:
On 12/11/07, Eric Suen <eric.suen.tech gmail.com> wrote:
 Are C and C++ "harmed" because two virus scanners (and not even the better
 ones,
 like Kaspersky) don't like the code a specific compiler produces? I don't
 think so.

Beside C and C++ are mantained by a standard not a person...
 If you want to perform a manual analysis of the generated asm to make sure it
 doesn't do anything malicious, feel free. I won't bother.

from: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/prevx.com http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/digitalmars.com Seems the people using prevx are much more than the people using dmc or dmd, and my program is for these kinds of user, not the one like you who can analysis asm. Is there anyone using D language write freeware/commercial program, will the software download site like: download.com/softpedia.com mark it as clean software or whatever?

In the time you have spent arguing about this you could probably have had a 5-byte binary diff to cure the behaviour, that could be applied as part of the build. It's not hard. David.
 Eric

Dec 11 2007
parent reply "Eric Suen" <eric.suen.tech gmail.com> writes:
"David Wilson"
 On 12/11/07, Eric Suen <eric.suen.tech gmail.com> wrote:
 Are C and C++ "harmed" because two virus scanners (and not even the better
 ones,
 like Kaspersky) don't like the code a specific compiler produces? I don't
 think so.

Beside C and C++ are mantained by a standard not a person...
 If you want to perform a manual analysis of the generated asm to make sure 
 it
 doesn't do anything malicious, feel free. I won't bother.

from: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/prevx.com http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/digitalmars.com Seems the people using prevx are much more than the people using dmc or dmd, and my program is for these kinds of user, not the one like you who can analysis asm. Is there anyone using D language write freeware/commercial program, will the software download site like: download.com/softpedia.com mark it as clean software or whatever?

In the time you have spent arguing about this you could probably have had a 5-byte binary diff to cure the behaviour, that could be applied as part of the build. It's not hard. David.
 Eric


crow over can make D language popular, do you means to using D language I have to learn analysis asm first, then do what you so called "had a 5-byte binary diff to cure the behaviour"? I'm just a Java programmer want port my java program to D. Anyway, will the next version DMD fix this problem? or I have to learn ASM now? Eric
Dec 11 2007
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Eric Suen wrote:
 Anyway, will the next version DMD fix this problem?

I cannot fix a problem DMD doesn't have. It's the virus scanner that has a bug.
Dec 13 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent "David Wilson" <dw botanicus.net> writes:
On 12/11/07, Eric Suen <eric.suen.tech gmail.com> wrote:

 "David Wilson"

 In the time you have spent arguing about this you could probably have
 had a 5-byte binary diff to cure the behaviour, that could be applied
 as part of the build. It's not hard.


 crow over can make D language popular, do you means to using D language
 I have to learn analysis asm first, then do what you so called "had a
 5-byte binary diff to cure the behaviour"? I'm just a Java programmer
 want port my java program to D.

Your problem is not that the compiler is generating syntactically invalid executables, because it isn't. Your problem is that your client is using a vendor of snake oil for producing their network. Fix your client, by telling them to use a more reputable vendor (I'd suggest Symantec if they insist on using something as 20th century as a virus scanner), or fix the vendor, by reporting the *bug in their scanner* to them, but fixing D makes no sense at all. Signature-based virus checkers have always had false positives like this. The companies have a habit of putting any old crap in their databases, including as a wild example, some example PHP code I wrote in 2002 demonstrating how you can use the MySQL libraries to get around safe mode (this was absolutely *not* a virus). The effect of that was a DDoS against my old e-mail address by Microsoft Exchange installations all over the world (yes I am still bitter), claiming my original message contained a virus. Posting a message to Bugtraq containg code which some idiot adds to his idiot vendor's database was patently not my fault, and I certainly shouldn't have been the one to fix the problem. I had to abandon that e-mail address as a result. If I could have afforded it, I may have been able to taken action against the company in question. Similar to so much else in the computer security industry, virus checkers are somewhat reactionary snake oil. Trying to make them proactive results in incredibly generic signatures such as the second one you are seeing matching your D binary. Also like so much else in the security industry, this entire class of software would be rendered effectively useless if people spent more time thinking about robust software and secure software configurations. Modifying D to not match this cowboy virus checker would be a step backwards in that respect.
 Anyway, will the next version DMD fix this problem? or I have to learn ASM now?

 Eric

Dec 11 2007
prev sibling parent "David Wilson" <dw botanicus.net> writes:
On 12/11/07, Eric Suen <eric.suen.tech gmail.com> wrote:

 crow over can make D language popular, do you means to using D language
 I have to learn analysis asm first, then do what you so called "had a
 5-byte binary diff to cure the behaviour"? I'm just a Java programmer
 want port my java program to D.

 Anyway, will the next version DMD fix this problem? or I have to learn ASM now?

You could isolate the offending segment in the file by a simple mutation method, say, changing one byte at a time until the offending scanner does not detect the virus. This implies downloading the scanner and running at 150,000+ times (or however many bytes are in the typical minimal D executable). You could also take a more random approach, changing small but random sets of bytes in the file until one iteration doesn't set the scanner off. At that point, you have a small set of regions in the file to manually scan. At that point, someone here on the newsgroup might be able to help provide a simple fix for your problem, if you are willing to isolate the region of the binary that is causing it. I currently have no Windows installation at all, but once you have the hex addresses involved, it should be simple enough to trace it back to either standard library code, or a small chunk of code that might be patched to provide similar behaviour without matching the offending pattern. David.
 Eric

Dec 11 2007
prev sibling next sibling parent reply 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
That topic should be:

"Scanner unable to differentiate between malware and exe generated by dmd."

What do you expect passing an executable to THREE DOZEN different scanners?
Of course you will get some false positives, that's only to be expected!

You'll just have to explain to your "users" that those scanners are not
reliable. I expect you to know better than chime in to such nonsense.

regards, frank
Dec 11 2007
parent reply Gregor Richards <Richards codu.org> writes:
0ffh wrote:
 
 That topic should be:
 
 "Scanner unable to differentiate between malware and exe generated by dmd."
 
 What do you expect passing an executable to THREE DOZEN different scanners?
 Of course you will get some false positives, that's only to be expected!
 
 You'll just have to explain to your "users" that those scanners are not
 reliable. I expect you to know better than chime in to such nonsense.
 
 regards, frank
 

You expect random Internet users to know better? Hah! - Gregor Richards
Dec 11 2007
parent 0ffh <frank frankhirsch.youknow.what.todo.net> writes:
Gregor Richards wrote:
 You expect random Internet users to know better? Hah!

There you just see what kind of positive and optimistic person I am, just can't help it! =) regards, frank
Dec 11 2007
prev sibling parent Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org> writes:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:35:47 -0800
Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> wrote:

 b) Virus scanners are very useful in th modern world; when did they
 ever stop being so?

Even though it is out of context: I haven't ever found a need for a "virus" scanner (the word virus in this context is hilarious) apart from the time where I was searching for cracks for games using IE 5 on Windows 98 when I was a kid. Point being: don't use malware or software that enables malware by default. Then you also don't need resource-sucking software like virus/malware scanners. -- Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org>
Dec 12 2007