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digitalmars.D - So, what happened?

reply nobody <nobody5555 klassmaster.com> writes:
Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the much
anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?

Thanks
Aug 26 2007
next sibling parent reply Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> writes:
nobody Wrote:

 Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the much
anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?
 
 Thanks

Evidently it's a secret.
Aug 26 2007
next sibling parent Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org> writes:
Steve Teale wrote:
 nobody Wrote:
 
 Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the much
anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?

 Thanks

Evidently it's a secret.

I don't like secrets. :\
Aug 27 2007
prev sibling parent reply BLS <nanali nospam-wanadoo.fr> writes:
Steve Teale schrieb:
 nobody Wrote:
 
 Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the much
anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?

 Thanks

Evidently it's a secret.

Aug 27 2007
parent reply Alexander Panek <alexander.panek brainsware.org> writes:
BLS wrote:
 Steve Teale schrieb:
 nobody Wrote:

 Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the 
 much anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?

 Thanks

Evidently it's a secret.


Nah. I don't think it 'feels' this harsh. It's monday, after all, so most of the guys may still recover from massive jetlags or hangovers (or both (for massive dynamicism)). I'll just patiently wait until any of the attendees joins on IRC - then they'll be kidnapped and tortued... I mean.. lets just be patient. :P
Aug 27 2007
parent reply Paul <pauldotddotanderson comcast.net> writes:
Alexander Panek Wrote:

 BLS wrote:
 Steve Teale schrieb:
 nobody Wrote:

 Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the 
 much anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?

 Thanks




 Evidently it's a secret.


Nah. I don't think it 'feels' this harsh. It's monday, after all, so most of the guys may still recover from massive jetlags or hangovers (or both (for massive dynamicism)). I'll just patiently wait until any of the attendees joins on IRC - then they'll be kidnapped and tortued... I mean.. lets just be patient. :P

I've hesitated to report because I was only very peripherally involved in the discussions and it's not an area I know much about, but as I understand it the point of agreement was to make the two libraries compatible, so that Tango would work like "just another library". This implies that the Phobos and Tango would share a common runtime library, which was the focus of Sean Kelly's talk at the conference. There are also a few incompatibilities (toString and toUTF8; errors and exceptions) that need to be sorted out. The bottom line (if I've got it right) is that both Tango and Phobos will continue but it will no longer be an either/or situation for developers. Others with more involvement can probably give a clearer report. Paul
Aug 27 2007
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Paul wrote:
 I've hesitated to report because I was only very peripherally
 involved in the discussions and it's not an area I know much about,
 but as I understand it the point of agreement was to make the two
 libraries compatible, so that Tango would work like "just another
 library".  This implies that the Phobos and Tango would share a
 common runtime library, which was the focus of Sean Kelly's talk at
 the conference. There are also a few incompatibilities (toString and
 toUTF8; errors and exceptions) that need to be sorted out.
 
 The bottom line (if I've got it right) is that both Tango and Phobos
 will continue but it will no longer be an either/or situation for
 developers.

That's my understanding of what transpired. Myself and the Tango team both agree that the current situation is not good, and to fix it we need to remove the incompatibilities between the two, and we intend to do so.
Aug 27 2007
parent Sascha Katzner <sorry.no spam.invalid> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Paul wrote:
 The bottom line (if I've got it right) is that both Tango and Phobos
 will continue but it will no longer be an either/or situation for
 developers.

That's my understanding of what transpired. Myself and the Tango team both agree that the current situation is not good, and to fix it we need to remove the incompatibilities between the two, and we intend to do so.

So there will be a Tobos in D 3.x? ;) LLAP, Sascha
Sep 05 2007
prev sibling parent J Duncan <me nospam.com> writes:
Paul wrote:
 Alexander Panek Wrote:
 
 BLS wrote:
 Steve Teale schrieb:
 nobody Wrote:

 Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the 
 much anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?

 Thanks




 Evidently it's a secret.


most of the guys may still recover from massive jetlags or hangovers (or both (for massive dynamicism)). I'll just patiently wait until any of the attendees joins on IRC - then they'll be kidnapped and tortued... I mean.. lets just be patient. :P

I've hesitated to report because I was only very peripherally involved in the discussions and it's not an area I know much about, but as I understand it the point of agreement was to make the two libraries compatible, so that Tango would work like "just another library". This implies that the Phobos and Tango would share a common runtime library, which was the focus of Sean Kelly's talk at the conference. There are also a few incompatibilities (toString and toUTF8; errors and exceptions) that need to be sorted out. The bottom line (if I've got it right) is that both Tango and Phobos will continue but it will no longer be an either/or situation for developers. Others with more involvement can probably give a clearer report. Paul

*Pops the champagne cork*
Aug 27 2007
prev sibling parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron71 yahoo.com> writes:
nobody wrote:
 Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the much
anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?
 
 Thanks

I think you have read too much into the situation. The point was that they were going to /discuss/ a merger. It's safe to say that this is an issue that will not be resolved very quickly and that there will be an ongoing dialogue.
Aug 27 2007
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Mike Parker wrote:
 nobody wrote:
 Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the 
 much anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?

 Thanks

I think you have read too much into the situation. The point was that they were going to /discuss/ a merger. It's safe to say that this is an issue that will not be resolved very quickly and that there will be an ongoing dialogue.

What Mike said ^^. I think we all agreed that the current situation isn't ideal and that we'd like to rectify it. However, there are some technical and workflow issues to address, at the very least. I suppose we could have hashed out more of the details at the conference, but I feel it would have been inappropriate to monopolize Walter's time in such a manner. To me, the meeting was more about simply meeting one another and figuring out where we stood on things. In the meantime, I do feel that tangobos is a reasonable option for people wishing to use Tango and Phobos together in the same application. Sean
Aug 27 2007
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:
 What Mike said ^^.  I think we all agreed that the current situation 
 isn't ideal and that we'd like to rectify it.  However, there are some 
 technical and workflow issues to address, at the very least.  I suppose 
 we could have hashed out more of the details at the conference, but I 
 feel it would have been inappropriate to monopolize Walter's time in 
 such a manner.  To me, the meeting was more about simply meeting one 
 another and figuring out where we stood on things.  In the meantime, I 
 do feel that tangobos is a reasonable option for people wishing to use 
 Tango and Phobos together in the same application.

Yes. I think the big win was that we were able to sit down face to face and realize that we really were all on the same side and have the same goals.
Aug 27 2007
prev sibling parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:
 Mike Parker wrote:
 nobody wrote:
 Anyone care to elaborate what happened during the conference with the 
 much anticipated merge of Tango and Phobos?

 Thanks

I think you have read too much into the situation. The point was that they were going to /discuss/ a merger. It's safe to say that this is an issue that will not be resolved very quickly and that there will be an ongoing dialogue.

What Mike said ^^. I think we all agreed that the current situation isn't ideal and that we'd like to rectify it.

Didn't we already all agree on that before the conference?
 However, there are some
 technical and workflow issues to address, at the very least.
 I suppose 
 we could have hashed out more of the details at the conference, but I 
 feel it would have been inappropriate to monopolize Walter's time in 
 such a manner.  

Given that this is the one thing a lot of people were hoping would come out as a result of the conference, I can hardly think of a more constructive use for Walter's conference time. I think it would have been ok for you and the Tango team to monopolize a little more. :-) From this end, unfortunately the responses are sounding a lot like a nice way of saying "nothing happened and nothing is going to happen any time soon". :-( --bb
Aug 27 2007
parent reply Sean Kelly <sean f4.ca> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:
 Sean Kelly wrote:
 
 However, there are some
 technical and workflow issues to address, at the very least.
 I suppose we could have hashed out more of the details at the 
 conference, but I feel it would have been inappropriate to monopolize 
 Walter's time in such a manner.  

Given that this is the one thing a lot of people were hoping would come out as a result of the conference, I can hardly think of a more constructive use for Walter's conference time. I think it would have been ok for you and the Tango team to monopolize a little more. :-)

Scheduling was a bit tight Thursday and Friday and I really didn't want to feel that we were depriving the other attendees face time with Walter. As it is, our chat kept us away from much of Bartosz's talk, and it's one that I very much wanted to hear in its entirety.
 From this end, unfortunately the responses are sounding a lot like a 
 nice way of saying "nothing happened and nothing is going to happen any 
 time soon". :-(

We should be able to sort out the rest via email and such. And if that turns out not to be possible, I don't live terribly far from Seattle and wouldn't mind visiting the city again anyway (Kris either, I imagine). So please be patient. I have a raft of Tango tickets I'd been ignoring while preparing for the conference as well as a number of personal commitments over the next few weeks, so some delay doesn't mean that no progress is being made or that the merge will never happen. Rather, the bills need to be paid, etc. This is the best I can do at the moment unless someone wants to put me on retainer for writing D code ;-) Sean
Aug 27 2007
parent reply Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:
 Bill Baxter wrote:
 Sean Kelly wrote:

 However, there are some
 technical and workflow issues to address, at the very least.
 I suppose we could have hashed out more of the details at the 
 conference, but I feel it would have been inappropriate to monopolize 
 Walter's time in such a manner.  

Given that this is the one thing a lot of people were hoping would come out as a result of the conference, I can hardly think of a more constructive use for Walter's conference time. I think it would have been ok for you and the Tango team to monopolize a little more. :-)

Scheduling was a bit tight Thursday and Friday and I really didn't want to feel that we were depriving the other attendees face time with Walter. As it is, our chat kept us away from much of Bartosz's talk, and it's one that I very much wanted to hear in its entirety.
 From this end, unfortunately the responses are sounding a lot like a 
 nice way of saying "nothing happened and nothing is going to happen 
 any time soon". :-(

We should be able to sort out the rest via email and such. And if that turns out not to be possible, I don't live terribly far from Seattle and wouldn't mind visiting the city again anyway (Kris either, I imagine).

That sounds slightly more encouraging.
 So please be patient.  I have a raft of Tango tickets I'd been ignoring 
 while preparing for the conference as well as a number of personal 
 commitments over the next few weeks, so some delay doesn't mean that no 
 progress is being made or that the merge will never happen.  Rather, the 
 bills need to be paid, etc.  This is the best I can do at the moment 
 unless someone wants to put me on retainer for writing D code ;-)

Google's hiring! --bb
Aug 27 2007
parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:
 
 So please be patient.  I have a raft of Tango tickets I'd been 
 ignoring while preparing for the conference as well as a number of 
 personal commitments over the next few weeks, so some delay doesn't 
 mean that no progress is being made or that the merge will never 
 happen.  Rather, the bills need to be paid, etc.  This is the best I 
 can do at the moment unless someone wants to put me on retainer for 
 writing D code ;-)

Google's hiring! --bb

But not for D development... -- Bruno Medeiros - MSc in CS/E student http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D
Aug 28 2007