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digitalmars.D - Re: [dmd-beta] dmd 2.063.2 beta 2 - windows help broken

reply captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken. weird scripting
errors appear for every page/link. it is not usable this way. (it also wants to
connect to the internet, which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows
thing.)

i love this help resource!

[sorry for posting here, i couldn't figure out how to reply on the beta
channel. it does not seem to be a newsgroup and i don't want to subscribe to a
mailing list.]
Jun 12 2013
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/12/2013 6:26 PM, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken. weird scripting
 errors appear for every page/link. it is not usable this way. (it also wants to
 connect to the internet, which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows
 thing.)

 i love this help resource!

 [sorry for posting here, i couldn't figure out how to reply on the beta
channel.
 it does not seem to be a newsgroup and i don't want to subscribe to a mailing
 list.]


How strange, it works on my machine.
Jun 12 2013
parent captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
On 2013-06-13 00:58, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 6/12/2013 6:26 PM, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken. weird scripting
 errors appear for every page/link. it is not usable this way. (it also wants to
 connect to the internet, which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows
 thing.)

 i love this help resource!

 [sorry for posting here, i couldn't figure out how to reply on the beta
channel.
 it does not seem to be a newsgroup and i don't want to subscribe to a mailing
 list.]


 How strange, it works on my machine.



some further information:

i use the all systems .zip file and the problem is there since the 2.063
release. (as in: no problem before, including 2.062).

i have two different behaviors on my 2 win7-64 systems (they are in ifferent
states of updating, one is fully patched, they other one not.). i have comodo
firewall/defense running and can see a bit what is happening under the hood.

as usual when starting a new .chm help file, it needs to set half a dozen of
registry keys. i allow this. then it wants to connect to the internet. this is
very dubious and i don't allow it. this is something that should not happen and
requires a fix already. a .chm file is meant for offline use.

on the old system, help contents are shown, but for every page/link i open, a
scripting error message windows pops up. super annoying.

on the up-to-date system, i only see the list of content, but no actual content
(just white space). no error message, no help.

if found that Andrej Mitrovic reported slow performance and potential online
access/script downloading for an earlier beta:
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/51A50740.8040906 digitalmars.com#post-CAJ85NXB:2BJFjYX3dYOgJRW1OythZU9FovSigyAHhNnARuY652wQ:40mail.gmail.com

so it seems that the 2.063 .chm is not complete in itself but needs internet
access. because i don't allow it, it fails. a .chm help file should be
complete/consistent and work without online access. otherwise it is of no use.
Jun 13 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
On Thursday, 13 June 2013 at 01:26:09 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken. 
 weird scripting errors appear for every page/link. it is not 
 usable this way. (it also wants to connect to the internet, 
 which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows thing.)

 i love this help resource!

 [sorry for posting here, i couldn't figure out how to reply on 
 the beta channel. it does not seem to be a newsgroup and i 
 don't want to subscribe to a mailing list.]


Have you checked if the file is blocked via the "file properties"?

For security reasons help files downloaded from Internet need to 
be unblocked, before all features are allowed.


--
Paulo
Jun 12 2013
parent reply captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
On 2013-06-13 01:07, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 On Thursday, 13 June 2013 at 01:26:09 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken. weird scripting
errors appear for every page/link. it is not usable this way. (it also wants to
connect to the internet, which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows
thing.)

 i love this help resource!

 [sorry for posting here, i couldn't figure out how to reply on the beta
channel. it does not seem to be a newsgroup and i don't want to subscribe to a
mailing list.]


 Have you checked if the file is blocked via the "file properties"?

 For security reasons help files downloaded from Internet need to be unblocked,
before all features are allowed.


 --
 Paulo


i don't use internet explorer. no downloaded file ever gets blocked on my
system by windows. starting d.chm is not the problem.

i use d.chm from the all system .zip file. so i did not even download it
directly.

btw: were would i be able to download it directly? i was searching for it since
2.063 came out and could not find it.
Jun 13 2013
parent reply Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Am 13.06.2013 17:52, schrieb captaindet:

 On 2013-06-13 01:07, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 On Thursday, 13 June 2013 at 01:26:09 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken. weird
 scripting errors appear for every page/link. it is not usable this
 way. (it also wants to connect to the internet, which i don't like at
 all, but this could be a windows thing.)

 i love this help resource!

 [sorry for posting here, i couldn't figure out how to reply on the
 beta channel. it does not seem to be a newsgroup and i don't want to
 subscribe to a mailing list.]


 Have you checked if the file is blocked via the "file properties"?

 For security reasons help files downloaded from Internet need to be
 unblocked, before all features are allowed.


 --
 Paulo


 i don't use internet explorer. no downloaded file ever gets blocked on
 my system by windows. starting d.chm is not the problem.

 i use d.chm from the all system .zip file. so i did not even download it
 directly.

 btw: were would i be able to download it directly? i was searching for
 it since 2.063 came out and could not find it.


It is a standard Windows behavior since XP SP 3, don't forget that CHM 
files use Internet Explorer as ActiveX component.

Files extracted from .zip files inherit the .zip file security settings.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/902225/en-us

Please try to unblock the chm file as suggested by Microsoft.

--
Paulo
Jun 13 2013
parent reply captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
On 2013-06-13 11:35, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Am 13.06.2013 17:52, schrieb captaindet:

 On 2013-06-13 01:07, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 On Thursday, 13 June 2013 at 01:26:09 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken.
 weird scripting errors appear for every page/link. it is not
 usable this way. (it also wants to connect to the internet,
 which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows thing.)

 i love this help resource!

 [sorry for posting here, i couldn't figure out how to reply on
 the beta channel. it does not seem to be a newsgroup and i
 don't want to subscribe to a mailing list.]


 Have you checked if the file is blocked via the "file
 properties"?

 For security reasons help files downloaded from Internet need to
 be unblocked, before all features are allowed.


 -- Paulo


 i don't use internet explorer. no downloaded file ever gets blocked
 on my system by windows. starting d.chm is not the problem.

 i use d.chm from the all system .zip file. so i did not even
 download it directly.

 btw: were would i be able to download it directly? i was searching
 for it since 2.063 came out and could not find it.


 It is a standard Windows behavior since XP SP 3, don't forget that
 CHM files use Internet Explorer as ActiveX component.

 Files extracted from .zip files inherit the .zip file security
 settings.

 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/902225/en-us

 Please try to unblock the chm file as suggested by Microsoft.

 -- Paulo


thanks for following up on this but this is definitely not the problem here. to
be sure i used IE and downloaded a random file to see how this un/blocking
works (as i am usually not confronted with this). and yes i found an unblock
button in the properties of a downloaded installer. however, the 'd.chm' file
from the full D zip does not have this property set, there is no unblock
button. as i have elaborated further in the other post, d.chm does actually
start up (blocked files files do not start), i just cannot use it. it seems it
needs further content/scripts/styles from the internet to work. i did not allow
it to connect to the internet for several reasons. the most obvious one is that
this help is meant for offline use, otherwise i could just browse the d
homepage.
Jun 13 2013
next sibling parent reply Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Am 13.06.2013 20:23, schrieb captaindet:

 On 2013-06-13 11:35, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Am 13.06.2013 17:52, schrieb captaindet:

 On 2013-06-13 01:07, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 On Thursday, 13 June 2013 at 01:26:09 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken.
 weird scripting errors appear for every page/link. it is not
 usable this way. (it also wants to connect to the internet,
 which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows thing.)

 i love this help resource!

 [sorry for posting here, i couldn't figure out how to reply on
 the beta channel. it does not seem to be a newsgroup and i
 don't want to subscribe to a mailing list.]


 Have you checked if the file is blocked via the "file
 properties"?

 For security reasons help files downloaded from Internet need to
 be unblocked, before all features are allowed.


 -- Paulo


 i don't use internet explorer. no downloaded file ever gets blocked
 on my system by windows. starting d.chm is not the problem.

 i use d.chm from the all system .zip file. so i did not even
 download it directly.

 btw: were would i be able to download it directly? i was searching
 for it since 2.063 came out and could not find it.


 It is a standard Windows behavior since XP SP 3, don't forget that
 CHM files use Internet Explorer as ActiveX component.

 Files extracted from .zip files inherit the .zip file security
 settings.

 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/902225/en-us

 Please try to unblock the chm file as suggested by Microsoft.

 -- Paulo


 thanks for following up on this but this is definitely not the problem
 here. to be sure i used IE and downloaded a random file to see how this
 un/blocking works (as i am usually not confronted with this). and yes i
 found an unblock button in the properties of a downloaded installer.
 however, the 'd.chm' file from the full D zip does not have this
 property set, there is no unblock button. as i have elaborated further
 in the other post, d.chm does actually start up (blocked files files do
 not start), i just cannot use it. it seems it needs further
 content/scripts/styles from the internet to work. i did not allow it to
 connect to the internet for several reasons. the most obvious one is
 that this help is meant for offline use, otherwise i could just browse
 the d homepage.


I just tried and in my case I get a unblock button.

Having said that you are right there seems to be some comunication going on.

Maybe it is better if someone from D developers can have a look at it, I 
am afraid I cannot be of much help.

--
Paulo
Jun 13 2013
parent reply captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
On 2013-06-13 14:47, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 I just tried and in my case I get a unblock button.

 Having said that you are right there seems to be some comunication
 going on.

 Maybe it is better if someone from D developers can have a look at
 it, I am afraid I cannot be of much help.

 -- Paulo


FWIW

i figured out the windows blocking part - (which has nothing to to do with the
original problem)

any file (at least .exe and .zip) downloaded with IE (maybe even FF, not
tested) gets the 'danger' entry and shows the 'unblock' button in file
properties.

now if you use the windows built-in unzip, this property is propagated to the
extracted files, even harmless .txt files.

me, not using IE nor explorer nor the built-in zip (but rather opera and total
commander), never encounter these annoying blocking issues.

/det
Jun 13 2013
parent reply Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Am 13.06.2013 22:23, schrieb captaindet:

 On 2013-06-13 14:47, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 I just tried and in my case I get a unblock button.

 Having said that you are right there seems to be some comunication
 going on.

 Maybe it is better if someone from D developers can have a look at
 it, I am afraid I cannot be of much help.

 -- Paulo


 FWIW

 i figured out the windows blocking part - (which has nothing to to do
 with the original problem)

 any file (at least .exe and .zip) downloaded with IE (maybe even FF, not
 tested) gets the 'danger' entry and shows the 'unblock' button in file
 properties.

 now if you use the windows built-in unzip, this property is propagated
 to the extracted files, even harmless .txt files.

 me, not using IE nor explorer nor the built-in zip (but rather opera and
 total commander), never encounter these annoying blocking issues.

 /det


Yes this was what I was mentioning on my previous post. This is a NTFS 
feature it doesn't matter which browser you use to download.

Windows makes use of NTFS streams to mark a downloaded file as dangerous.

I never used Opera, so that might be the reason why I my experience is 
different than yours. FF and Chrome are integrated into this security 
mechanisms.

--
Paulo
Jun 13 2013
parent captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
On 2013-06-13 15:32, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Yes this was what I was mentioning on my previous post. This is a
 NTFS feature it doesn't matter which browser you use to download.

 Windows makes use of NTFS streams to mark a downloaded file as
 dangerous.

 I never used Opera, so that might be the reason why I my experience
 is different than yours. FF and Chrome are integrated into this
 security mechanisms.

 -- Paulo


also, not every unzip program propagates this property. eg the total commander
built-in unzip gladly ignores this property, ie the unzipped files are not
tagged 'dangerous'/blocked even if the zip was.

/det
Jun 13 2013
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/13/2013 11:23 AM, captaindet wrote:

 thanks for following up on this but this is definitely not the problem here. to
 be sure i used IE and downloaded a random file to see how this un/blocking
works
 (as i am usually not confronted with this). and yes i found an unblock button
in
 the properties of a downloaded installer. however, the 'd.chm' file from the
 full D zip does not have this property set, there is no unblock button. as i
 have elaborated further in the other post, d.chm does actually start up
(blocked
 files files do not start), i just cannot use it. it seems it needs further
 content/scripts/styles from the internet to work. i did not allow it to connect
 to the internet for several reasons. the most obvious one is that this help is
 meant for offline use, otherwise i could just browse the d homepage.


What files is it looking for?
Jun 13 2013
parent captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
On 2013-06-13 15:15, Walter Bright wrote:

 What files is it looking for?


run some more tests and it is getting weirder and weirder. i am currently at
work (this system has all windows updates installed). this machine never showed
the plethora of scripting errors but would just refuse to display help pages.

0) what i now did first: i deleted the internet explorer cache, history and
whatnot.

1) first run of d.chm
it wants to connect to
74.125.142.95 (google? why?)
192.88.99.1 (IANA??)
both of which i did NOT allow.

then it spits out following error message:
	An error has occured in the script of this page.
	Line: 332
	Char: 1
	Error: The value of the property '$' is null or undefined, not a Function
object
	Code: 0
	URL: mk: MSITStore:C:\D_2063.2.3\dmd2\windows\bin\d.chm::/chm/js/run.js

- then accessing help from the index and search tab works, but the contents tab
does not, only white pages.

2) second and later runs of d.chm
+ does not try to connect to the internet anymore
+ seems to work alright

3) now i start d.chm help from earlier versions of d, eg 2.061 and/or 2.062.
+ help works much quicker compared to 2.063 help and without problems

4) now i start the d.chm from 2.063 again
- again, no help from the contents tab, while index and search help works.

5) cleaning the internet explorer cache etc..
+ brings back the help, works fine

summary:
o i can use different d.chm from versions <2.063 without any problems. no side
effects.
o but their traces in cache/history corrupt the 2.063 help
o 2.063 d.chm wants to connect to the internet, while previous versions did not
o 2.063 d.chm seems to be a bit sluggish in general, compared to old help files

not sure what to make from all this. later at home i will check if the more
plentiful error messages are any different.


cheers

/det
Jun 13 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Thursday, 13 June 2013 at 01:26:09 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken. 
 weird scripting errors appear for every page/link. it is not 
 usable this way. (it also wants to connect to the internet, 
 which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows thing.)

 i love this help resource!

 [sorry for posting here, i couldn't figure out how to reply on 
 the beta channel. it does not seem to be a newsgroup and i 
 don't want to subscribe to a mailing list.]


Hi, I'm the maintainer of the CHM file and author of the CHM 
build tool (http://thecybershadow.net/d/docs/). Feel free to 
direct feedback regarding the CHM to me directly.

The CHM is built from the same HTML files that end up on the 
dlang.org website. (I would've used the same process that 
generate the documentation files under dmd2/html, but I don't 
think it's open-source or on github).

The website makes use of JavaScript, and loads jQuery from 
Google's CDN (https://developers.google.com/speed/libraries/). 
Other scripts use jQuery to provide things like editable/runnable 
code snippets.

I strongly suspect that the firewall alerts you're seeing are due 
to attempts to load jQuery, and the JavaScript errors you're 
seeing are due to jQuery not being loaded (because you forbid the 
firewall requests).

I'm going to have a look to see how difficult it would be to 
remove jQuery and its dependents from the CHM. (Due to the way 
the CHM is built, the tool needs to edit generated HTML, and 
since the website is sometimes updated with various JavaScript 
tweaks and features, it's somewhat like trying to operate on a 
moving target.)

As a workaround, for now I would recommend allowing the firewall 
requests.
Jun 13 2013
prev sibling parent reply "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Thursday, 13 June 2013 at 01:26:09 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken. 
 weird scripting errors appear for every page/link. it is not 
 usable this way. (it also wants to connect to the internet, 
 which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows thing.)


Could you try this CHM file?

http://dump.thecybershadow.net/7a69b8b3dbfd007e9895ff048d147187/d.chm

Here are my changes:

https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/340
Jun 13 2013
parent reply captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
On 2013-06-13 21:11, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 On Thursday, 13 June 2013 at 01:26:09 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 just checked and the windows help file d.chm is still broken. weird scripting
errors appear for every page/link. it is not usable this way. (it also wants to
connect to the internet, which i don't like at all, but this could be a windows
thing.)


 Could you try this CHM file?

 http://dump.thecybershadow.net/7a69b8b3dbfd007e9895ff048d147187/d.chm

 Here are my changes:

 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/340


thanks a bunch!

this one seems to be self-sufficient, i.e. does not need internet access, no
script errors so far.

i love the chm help especially for when traveling w/ slow or w/o internet
access!

the changelog page does load very slowly though (and my computer is not the
weakest one...), some other pages are a bit sluggish too. earlier chm helps
were very responsive. i guess it is the (increased) use of javascript on the
dlang website. do we really need so much of it? and does it all have to go in
the chm file? i would not mind a more austere appearance for a simple offline
help. but this is probably easier said than done.


cheers,

det
Jun 13 2013
parent reply "Vladimir Panteleev" <vladimir thecybershadow.net> writes:
On Friday, 14 June 2013 at 03:45:37 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 the changelog page does load very slowly though (and my 
 computer is not the weakest one...), some other pages are a bit 
 sluggish too. earlier chm helps were very responsive. i guess 
 it is the (increased) use of javascript on the dlang website. 
 do we really need so much of it? and does it all have to go in 
 the chm file? i would not mind a more austere appearance for a 
 simple offline help. but this is probably easier said than done.


The lag is caused by the hyphenation script. It inserts soft 
hyphens to allow line breaks inside words. It is often the target 
of complaints (such as adversely affecting performance, or being 
incompatible with certain browsers).

I'll disable hyphenation in the CHM file, since this problem is 
especially grave due to the low JavaScript performance of the IE 
version used in the CHM reader.

Here is a new version:

http://dump.thecybershadow.net/3b3a645e610038cb40eb8ea1cad8fa07/d.chm
Jun 13 2013
parent captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
On 2013-06-14 01:08, Vladimir Panteleev wrote:

 On Friday, 14 June 2013 at 03:45:37 UTC, captaindet wrote:

 the changelog page does load very slowly though (and my computer is not the
weakest one...), some other pages are a bit sluggish too. earlier chm helps
were very responsive. i guess it is the (increased) use of javascript on the
dlang website. do we really need so much of it? and does it all have to go in
the chm file? i would not mind a more austere appearance for a simple offline
help. but this is probably easier said than done.


 The lag is caused by the hyphenation script. It inserts soft hyphens to allow
line breaks inside words. It is often the target of complaints (such as
adversely affecting performance, or being incompatible with certain browsers).

 I'll disable hyphenation in the CHM file, since this problem is especially
grave due to the low JavaScript performance of the IE version used in the CHM
reader.

 Here is a new version:

 http://dump.thecybershadow.net/3b3a645e610038cb40eb8ea1cad8fa07/d.chm


impressive! now it has the speed and usability of the older chm help files.

thanks for your work on this!

/det
Jun 14 2013