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digitalmars.D - Officially moving to MediaWiki?

reply "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
The topic has been discussed extensively a short while ago, so 
I'll keep this short:

As you will probably remember, Vladimir Panteleev has kindly 
agreed to set up a MediaWiki instance, meant to replace the 
current D wiki at prowiki.org. It is reachable at 
http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/Main_Page, and several 
people have actively been adding content to it already (thanks a 
lot!).

In my opinion, it is already much more inviting than the old 
wiki. The next logical step would be to officially adopt it as 
the D wiki, i.e. make wiki.dlang.org point to it and change the 
links on dlang.org accordingly.

So, the question is, what is stopping us from doing that right 
now? Is there anything important missing? [1]

At this point, the MediaWiki instance still has slightly less 
content, but I think this will quickly change once it has 
received the official blessing. Besides that, it will probably be 
a good idea to keep around the old one as an archive anyway, at 
least for a short while.

David


[1] The DIPs have not been moved yet, but that's in order to 
avoid confusion regarding the official source.
Dec 08 2012
next sibling parent reply "Maxim Fomin" <maxim maxim-fomin.ru> writes:
On Saturday, 8 December 2012 at 23:52:48 UTC, David Nadlinger 
wrote:
 The topic has been discussed extensively a short while ago, so 
 I'll keep this short:

 As you will probably remember, Vladimir Panteleev has kindly 
 agreed to set up a MediaWiki instance, meant to replace the 
 current D wiki at prowiki.org. It is reachable at 
 http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/Main_Page, and several 
 people have actively been adding content to it already (thanks 
 a lot!).

 In my opinion, it is already much more inviting than the old 
 wiki. The next logical step would be to officially adopt it as 
 the D wiki, i.e. make wiki.dlang.org point to it and change the 
 links on dlang.org accordingly.

 So, the question is, what is stopping us from doing that right 
 now? Is there anything important missing? [1]

 At this point, the MediaWiki instance still has slightly less 
 content, but I think this will quickly change once it has 
 received the official blessing. Besides that, it will probably 
 be a good idea to keep around the old one as an archive anyway, 
 at least for a short while.

 David


 [1] The DIPs have not been moved yet, but that's in order to 
 avoid confusion regarding the official source.

I agree that moving from prowiki to mediawiki is a good idea, but new site is just almost empty (http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/?title=Special:RecentChanges&day =30&from=&limit=500 see also http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/Special:AllPages) and some portion of it is dedicated to developers (Walter Bright, Alexandrescu and others) which is not very interesting for those who are seeking language technical details.
Dec 08 2012
next sibling parent reply Paulo Pinto <pjmlp progtools.org> writes:
Am 09.12.2012 07:13, schrieb Maxim Fomin:
 On Saturday, 8 December 2012 at 23:52:48 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote:
 The topic has been discussed extensively a short while ago, so I'll
 keep this short:

 As you will probably remember, Vladimir Panteleev has kindly agreed to
 set up a MediaWiki instance, meant to replace the current D wiki at
 prowiki.org. It is reachable at
 http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/Main_Page, and several people
 have actively been adding content to it already (thanks a lot!).

 In my opinion, it is already much more inviting than the old wiki. The
 next logical step would be to officially adopt it as the D wiki, i.e.
 make wiki.dlang.org point to it and change the links on dlang.org
 accordingly.

 So, the question is, what is stopping us from doing that right now? Is
 there anything important missing? [1]

 At this point, the MediaWiki instance still has slightly less content,
 but I think this will quickly change once it has received the official
 blessing. Besides that, it will probably be a good idea to keep around
 the old one as an archive anyway, at least for a short while.

 David


 [1] The DIPs have not been moved yet, but that's in order to avoid
 confusion regarding the official source.

I agree that moving from prowiki to mediawiki is a good idea, but new site is just almost empty (http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/?title=Special:RecentChanges&days=30&from=&limit=500 see also http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/Special:AllPages) and some portion of it is dedicated to developers (Walter Bright, Alexandrescu and others) which is not very interesting for those who are seeking language technical details.

Well, most of the content on the current Wiki is dead from what I can understand in our forum discussions. So the question is how much of the *real* content is still missing? -- Paulo
Dec 08 2012
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-12-09 08:19, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Well, most of the content on the current Wiki is dead from what I can
 understand in our forum discussions.

I think the Library and Frameworks section could be fleshed out. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Dec 09 2012
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-12-09 13:12, David Nadlinger wrote:

 My idea here is that once we have officially decided that we want to go
 forward with the new wiki, everybody would just add their own favorite
 libraries there. Of course, we could already do this _now_ in theory,
 but I think the chance of this happening, even if it just takes five
 minutes, is small as long as the new wiki is nothing but a experiment
 somebody put up on his own domain.

 Regarding content missing from the new wiki, I doubt that it makes sense
 to migrate the complete set of pages (e.g. the list of libraries) from
 Prowiki – many are just plain outdated, and we could take this as an
 opportunity to get rid of the cruft.

I think we should put it in an archive section. Someone might want to revive an old library. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/9/12 12:12 PM, Maxim Fomin wrote:
 On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 16:48:02 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote:
 On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 13:21:26 UTC, Maxim Fomin wrote:
 Are you actually asking to make Vladimir's wikisite accessible at
 wiki.dlang.org

Update: It actually is reachable under wiki.dlang.org now. So, let's work on getting it ready on prime time, and then flip the switch, i.e. the dlang.org Wiki links. David

Well, this is unexpected. I remember there were requests for more official domain name like wiki.dlang.org but I do not remember announcement that this actually was done.

Apologies, Walter and I discussed this a while ago with Vladimir and our hosting provider.
 By the way, this a good opportunity for me to figure out last question
 regarding D community - who owns and admins dlang.org (I know how its
 content is generated)?

Walter is the owner. I have some rights to push content as well. We have a private host provider and admin (not sure whether I can give the name). Andrei
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 11:32:57 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 On 2012-12-09 08:19, Paulo Pinto wrote:

 Well, most of the content on the current Wiki is dead from 
 what I can
 understand in our forum discussions.

I think the Library and Frameworks section could be fleshed out.

My idea here is that once we have officially decided that we want to go forward with the new wiki, everybody would just add their own favorite libraries there. Of course, we could already do this _now_ in theory, but I think the chance of this happening, even if it just takes five minutes, is small as long as the new wiki is nothing but a experiment somebody put up on his own domain. Regarding content missing from the new wiki, I doubt that it makes sense to migrate the complete set of pages (e.g. the list of libraries) from Prowiki – many are just plain outdated, and we could take this as an opportunity to get rid of the cruft. David
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?TWFyaXVzeiBHbGl3acWEc2tp?= <alienballance gmail.com> writes:
W dniu 2012-12-09 07:13, Maxim Fomin pisze:
 I agree that moving from prowiki to mediawiki is a good idea, but new 
 site is just almost empty 
 (http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/?title=Special:RecentChanges&day
=30&from=&limit=500 
 see also http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/Special:AllPages) and 
 some portion of it is dedicated to developers (Walter Bright, 
 Alexandrescu and others) which is not very interesting for those who 
 are seeking language technical details.

and which didn't looked outdated for me. Another thing is, as someone mentioned before, that i don't want to spend too much time on something that is may not be even seen publicly. Could you point out why old wiki is better than new one in its current state?
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Maxim Fomin" <maxim maxim-fomin.ru> writes:
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 13:03:02 UTC, Mariusz Gliwiński 
wrote:
 W dniu 2012-12-09 07:13, Maxim Fomin pisze:
 I agree that moving from prowiki to mediawiki is a good idea, 
 but new site is just almost empty 
 (http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/?title=Special:RecentChanges&day
=30&from=&limit=500 
 see also 
 http://dwiki.kimsufi.thecybershadow.net/Special:AllPages) and 
 some portion of it is dedicated to developers (Walter Bright, 
 Alexandrescu and others) which is not very interesting for 
 those who are seeking language technical details.

everything i found and which didn't looked outdated for me. Another thing is, as someone mentioned before, that i don't want to spend too much time on something that is may not be even seen publicly.

Are you actually asking to make Vladimir's wikisite accessible at wiki.dlang.org (or moving its database to mediawiki instance located at wiki.dlang.org)? Probably this is a good idea even assuming that the site is just almost empty - it can be incentive to participate in it.
 Could you point out why old wiki is better than new one in its 
 current state?

I didn't tell this.
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 13:21:26 UTC, Maxim Fomin wrote:
 Are you actually asking to make Vladimir's wikisite accessible 
 at wiki.dlang.org

Update: It actually is reachable under wiki.dlang.org now. So, let's work on getting it ready on prime time, and then flip the switch, i.e. the dlang.org Wiki links. David
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 06:14:16 UTC, Maxim Fomin wrote:
 some portion of it is dedicated to developers (Walter Bright, 
 Alexandrescu and others) which is not very interesting for 
 those who are seeking language technical details.

I think these pages are mostly the result of playing around with the Semantic MediaWiki extension (which seems to be quite a nice fit, from the results, and probably a good reason to switch away from Prowiki in itself). David
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?TWFyaXVzeiBHbGl3acWEc2tp?= <alienballance gmail.com> writes:
W dniu 2012-12-09 14:21, Maxim Fomin pisze:
 Are you actually asking to make Vladimir's wikisite accessible at 
 wiki.dlang.org (or moving its database to mediawiki instance located 
 at wiki.dlang.org)? Probably this is a good idea even assuming that 
 the site is just almost empty - it can be incentive to participate in it.

that would make our work more purposeful. Most preferably under url wiki.dlang.org As for moving instance or not, you should discuss it with Vladimir or someone else involved in hosting.
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Maxim Fomin" <maxim maxim-fomin.ru> writes:
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 16:48:02 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote:
 On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 13:21:26 UTC, Maxim Fomin wrote:
 Are you actually asking to make Vladimir's wikisite accessible 
 at wiki.dlang.org

Update: It actually is reachable under wiki.dlang.org now. So, let's work on getting it ready on prime time, and then flip the switch, i.e. the dlang.org Wiki links. David

Well, this is unexpected. I remember there were requests for more official domain name like wiki.dlang.org but I do not remember announcement that this actually was done. By the way, this a good opportunity for me to figure out last question regarding D community - who owns and admins dlang.org (I know how its content is generated)?
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Maxim Fomin" <maxim maxim-fomin.ru> writes:
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 16:58:04 UTC, Mariusz Gliwiński 
wrote:
 W dniu 2012-12-09 14:21, Maxim Fomin pisze:
 Are you actually asking to make Vladimir's wikisite accessible 
 at wiki.dlang.org (or moving its database to mediawiki 
 instance located at wiki.dlang.org)? Probably this is a good 
 idea even assuming that the site is just almost empty - it can 
 be incentive to participate in it.

section, that would make our work more purposeful. Most preferably under url wiki.dlang.org As for moving instance or not, you should discuss it with Vladimir or someone else involved in hosting.

Agree, but I was not intended to move mediawiki setups: I found irrelevant whether mediawiki is hosted at dlang.org or at Vladimir's hosting until the site shows technical problems.
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 17:18:00 UTC, Maxim Fomin wrote:
 Agree, but I was not intended to move mediawiki setups: I found 
 irrelevant whether mediawiki is hosted at dlang.org or at 
 Vladimir's hosting until the site shows technical problems.

Just to be sure this is clear: Vladimir has generously agreed to host the wiki instance, just as he hosts forum.dlang.org right now. David
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Sunday, December 09, 2012 13:12:48 David Nadlinger wrote:
 My idea here is that once we have officially decided that we want
 to go forward with the new wiki, everybody would just add their
 own favorite libraries there. Of course, we could already do this
 _now_ in theory, but I think the chance of this happening, even
 if it just takes five minutes, is small as long as the new wiki
 is nothing but a experiment somebody put up on his own domain.

So, basically it's the KDE 4 argument. If we don't move to it (or release it, in the case of KDE 4), no one will actually move their stuff to it, and we'll never get anywhere, but if we do, then what we have isn't good enough until they've actually moved their stuff to it. :) Personally, I pretty much never use the wiki. I almost always forget that it even exists. So, I don't really care if there's a transition period where our official wiki is rather sparse. But if the links and page rankings generally go to the old wiki, it'll take a while for the new one to have that much traffic anyway, so having it be initially sparse isn't really a problem except for those who actually go to the wiki on a regular basis and would have some clue what is going on. Those who arrive at it via searching or go infrequently would be essentially unaffected. - Jonathan M Davis
Dec 09 2012
prev sibling parent "David Nadlinger" <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On Sunday, 9 December 2012 at 18:56:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
 We have a private host provider and admin (not sure whether I 
 can give the name).

Well, given that he is acknowledged at the bottom of digitalmars.com… ;) David
Dec 09 2012