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digitalmars.D - OSX users out there? Serious bug (I think)

reply "monarch_dodra" <monarchdodra gmail.com> writes:
This is a two part post.

First, I wanted to pol how many users out there were developing 
under OSX? The threads seem to indicated users under windows or 
Linux, but I've never heard of anybody under OSX. So who has or 
is developing under OSX? Anybody?

I also wanted to know if you had any "stability" problems. It 
seems there are strange bugs with the OSX realease every now and 
then, and those are only the ones we "see". Has anybody tried D 
with a "relatively" large project? No problems?

The second part of this post is about a specific (OSX related) 
bug. I don't like drawing attention to it such as this, as I know 
we are all busy, but I think this one is serious enough to try to 
push for its investigation: 
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9720

The reason I'm worried about this bug is that the only condition 
that seems to trigger it passing an object that has a destructor. 
I find this is very bothersome, because it can happen with 
perfectly safe code, and its "observable condition" is perfectly 
undefined. Finally, it only appears in -O, biting you in the ass 
in the worst possible moment.

Seeing that this bug exists, I'd have 0 faith to use D under OSX. 
May I kindly request that those with the required knowledge to 
fix this bug try to investigate it? Sorry for insisting/asking...
Mar 31 2013
next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2013-03-31 22:02, monarch_dodra wrote:
 This is a two part post.

 First, I wanted to pol how many users out there were developing under
 OSX? The threads seem to indicated users under windows or Linux, but
 I've never heard of anybody under OSX. So who has or is developing under
 OSX? Anybody?

I use Mac OS X. I've been using it before DMD was avalible on Mac OS X, used GDC back then. I know there are other developers here that use it as well. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Mar 31 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Joshua Niehus" <jm.niehus gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 31 March 2013 at 20:02:40 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote:
 This is a two part post.

 First, I wanted to pol how many users out there were developing 
 under OSX? The threads seem to indicated users under windows or 
 Linux, but I've never heard of anybody under OSX. So who has or 
 is developing under OSX? Anybody?
 [snip]

I use osx as well. most of the things i do are small toy programs. Though i do play around with vibe a bit and never had any major issue.
Mar 31 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Peter Alexander" <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:
I use OSX. I have about 20kloc of D code, and it all works :-)  I 
have occasionally seen wrong code bugs in the past, but I've 
reported them all and from what I can remember they have all been 
fixed.

I can repro your issue. The illegal instruction is a 'popq' 
instruction called inside insertAfter, just after the destructor 
for the unnamed 'stuff' is called, before the function returns. I 
haven't looked into it further than that.
Apr 01 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Paolo Invernizzi" <pinver pinver.com> writes:
On Sunday, 31 March 2013 at 20:02:40 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote:
 This is a two part post.

 First, I wanted to pol how many users out there were developing 
 under OSX? The threads seem to indicated users under windows or 
 Linux, but I've never heard of anybody under OSX. So who has or 
 is developing under OSX? Anybody?

 I also wanted to know if you had any "stability" problems. It 
 seems there are strange bugs with the OSX realease every now 
 and then, and those are only the ones we "see". Has anybody 
 tried D with a "relatively" large project? No problems?

 The second part of this post is about a specific (OSX related) 
 bug. I don't like drawing attention to it such as this, as I 
 know we are all busy, but I think this one is serious enough to 
 try to push for its investigation: 
 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9720

 The reason I'm worried about this bug is that the only 
 condition that seems to trigger it passing an object that has a 
 destructor. I find this is very bothersome, because it can 
 happen with perfectly safe code, and its "observable condition" 
 is perfectly undefined. Finally, it only appears in -O, biting 
 you in the ass in the worst possible moment.

 Seeing that this bug exists, I'd have 0 faith to use D under 
 OSX. May I kindly request that those with the required 
 knowledge to fix this bug try to investigate it? Sorry for 
 insisting/asking...

We use D at work, since pre-1, and right now we are using it in Windows, Linux mainly and OSX: we have a discrete codebase, and we are using it for production code in real products. Actually on OSX I'm using LDC, because simply I can't use objc bindings with DMD (random stack corruptions), and I'm a little too under time pressure to investigate the issue. I can confirm that we have some problems with -O code: actually we are avoiding it, and we are simply stuck with no optimisations at all... /Paolo
Apr 01 2013
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2013-04-01 11:42, Paolo Invernizzi wrote:

 Actually on OSX I'm using LDC, because simply I can't use objc bindings
 with DMD (random stack corruptions), and I'm a little too under time
 pressure to investigate the issue.

What kind of objc bindings are you using? Own implementation or some library I might know about? -- /Jacob Carlborg
Apr 01 2013
parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2013-04-01 15:27, Paolo Invernizzi wrote:

 They are a simple declarations of the main objc functions and types made
 by ourself: nothing really special.

Ok, I see. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Apr 01 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "Paolo Invernizzi" <pinver pinver.com> writes:
On Monday, 1 April 2013 at 10:32:09 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 On 2013-04-01 11:42, Paolo Invernizzi wrote:

 Actually on OSX I'm using LDC, because simply I can't use objc 
 bindings
 with DMD (random stack corruptions), and I'm a little too 
 under time
 pressure to investigate the issue.

What kind of objc bindings are you using? Own implementation or some library I might know about?

They are a simple declarations of the main objc functions and types made by ourself: nothing really special.
Apr 01 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Denis Shelomovskij <verylonglogin.reg gmail.com> writes:
01.04.2013 0:02, monarch_dodra пишет:
 This is a two part post.

 The reason I'm worried about this bug is that the only condition that
 seems to trigger it passing an object that has a destructor. I find this
 is very bothersome, because it can happen with perfectly safe code, and
 its "observable condition" is perfectly undefined. Finally, it only
 appears in -O, biting you in the ass in the worst possible moment.

Nothing personal, I do respect you, but Bitch please! dmd has the ability to produce broken object files from time to time on every platform [1] so "the worst possible moment" can punish you even when e.g. you remove tracing code or update druntime/Phobos. And yes, it happens often - it hit me on two different projects (guess, how many compile-to-exe non-toy projects I had last time?). Also OPTLINK tends to stop linking (yes, randomly) when your project grows in size and you use templates (read "ranges") forcing you to do further development without debug info (really nice to read you own code only in asm, isn't it?) thus making D unusable for non-toy Windows development. I have never understand people saying "it's a bullshit, you are just angry, D is usable" as they never ever argue how you can use D (my advice for them to argue me here: "D is usable if you carefully (read "don't") use templates"). Also one have to use contracts and closures very carefully because of tons of wrong-code bugs. [1] http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9044 [2] http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=6144 P.S. Still think you "wrong-code with -O switch" issue is serious? I have never think D is nearly ready to pass "-O" to compiler (afraid of CPU explosion on compiled program launch). P.P.S. Create a time machine and move back in early 2012 (or just imagine there is no Kenji Hara among us). What do you see? Right, wrong code on almost every `std.algorithm` usage (read "when predicate uses outer scope"). So current situation is still the same heaven it was that time Kenji fixes that. Yes, I remember I was so happy... -- Денис В. Шеломовский Denis V. Shelomovskij
Apr 01 2013
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 4/1/13 11:21 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 01.04.2013 0:02, monarch_dodra пишет:
 This is a two part post.

 The reason I'm worried about this bug is that the only condition that
 seems to trigger it passing an object that has a destructor. I find this
 is very bothersome, because it can happen with perfectly safe code, and
 its "observable condition" is perfectly undefined. Finally, it only
 appears in -O, biting you in the ass in the worst possible moment.

Nothing personal, I do respect you, but Bitch please!

Denis, the above (as well as most of the message that follows) is entirely inappropriate. It's also compounded by your antics on github, where your contributions are marred by a tendency to bully other contributors and to convert most every disagreement into strife. I have repeatedly asked you kindly to correct that behavior to no effect. Remember, nobody's holding a gun to your head; the door is always open for entering as well as leaving. It is entirely understandable if you find D unfit for whatever you do, or if its development process is not to your satisfaction. But this ongoing attitude of playing the victim, interpreting the team's shortcomings as incompetence doubled by malice, and picking fights left and right, is not helping you or anybody. I compel you again to revise your attitude toward the people you work and interact with in the forum and on github. If that does not happen, I will propose to the core team that your github account is banned from our project. Sorry it had to come to this. Thanks, Andrei
Apr 01 2013
next sibling parent reply Denis Shelomovskij <verylonglogin.reg gmail.com> writes:
01.04.2013 20:19, Nick Sabalausky пишет:
 On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 11:50:22 -0400
 Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 On 4/1/13 11:21 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 01.04.2013 0:02, monarch_dodra пишет:
 This is a two part post.

 The reason I'm worried about this bug is that the only condition
 that seems to trigger it passing an object that has a destructor.
 I find this is very bothersome, because it can happen with
 perfectly safe code, and its "observable condition" is perfectly
 undefined. Finally, it only appears in -O, biting you in the ass
 in the worst possible moment.

Nothing personal, I do respect you, but Bitch please!

Denis, the above (as well as most of the message that follows) is entirely inappropriate. It's also compounded by your antics on github, where your contributions are marred by a tendency to bully other contributors and to convert most every disagreement into strife. I have repeatedly asked you kindly to correct that behavior to no effect. Remember, nobody's holding a gun to your head; the door is always open for entering as well as leaving. It is entirely understandable if you find D unfit for whatever you do, or if its development process is not to your satisfaction. But this ongoing attitude of playing the victim, interpreting the team's shortcomings as incompetence doubled by malice, and picking fights left and right, is not helping you or anybody. I compel you again to revise your attitude toward the people you work and interact with in the forum and on github. If that does not happen, I will propose to the core team that your github account is banned from our project. Sorry it had to come to this.

Geez. It just sounded like a reasonable expression of frustration to me. *I've* said shit on here that was *far* less level-headed. More than once. But then, I never said anything implying an inability to use D reliably. So I can't help wondering if there's some PR-motivated bias here. Well, ok, I *do* realize there probably isn't, but when you respond with the threat of a ban to a fairly reasonable post about frustrations from having major trouble with the language, then first of all, that overreacting, but worse: people can easily misconstrue that as an attempt to sweep real problems things under the rug. I know nobody's trying to do that, but we definitely don't want people thinking we are. And that definitely makes it look like we are.

The Andrei wrote it not just because of a "fairly reasonable post" but because of my steady disrespectful behaviour (see [1] for a "light" example) in pull request discussions which does worth a ban. [1] https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/954#issuecomment-15352387 P.S. Also, Nick, if you have time, could you show me, how do you suggest "to use D reliably" in non toy Windows projects as you "never said anything" against it? -- Денис В. Шеломовский Denis V. Shelomovskij
Apr 02 2013
parent Denis Shelomovskij <verylonglogin.reg gmail.com> writes:
02.04.2013 18:37, Nick Sabalausky пишет:
 On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 11:20:26 +0400
 Denis Shelomovskij <verylonglogin.reg gmail.com> wrote:
 P.S.
 Also, Nick, if you have time, could you show me, how do you suggest
 "to use D reliably" in non toy Windows projects as you "never said
 anything" against it?

Don't do incremental compilation. Stick to the releases instead of Git master, and if you do use Git master, make sure to 1. make clean everything (dmd, phobos, druntime) before recompiling and 2. make sure all three, dmd, phobos, druntime always match - don't update one without updating the others. Aside from that stuff though, I haven't personally run into the problems you describe, so I really don't know.

You are talking about different thing here. I mean known old bugs which may break every program's linking because of every small code change as I described and it isn't connected with any dmd/phobos/druntime version. A also noted that it was triggered on both my projects to highlight the failures are not seldom (and Andrei though I was playing the victim because of that) and I don't understand how they can be ignored for such a long time as I don't see any other blockers in the language. The only other bad thing is a high probability of wrong-code when using contracts or closures but it is not a blocker and even not a PITA, one just have to know about it and put (lots of) workarounds which doesn't spend a lot of time (yes, uglier code, but D is still wins over e.g. C++ a lot here). -- Денис В. Шеломовский Denis V. Shelomovskij
Apr 03 2013
prev sibling parent reply Denis Shelomovskij <verylonglogin.reg gmail.com> writes:
01.04.2013 19:50, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:
 On 4/1/13 11:21 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 01.04.2013 0:02, monarch_dodra пишет:
 Bitch please!

Denis, the above (as well as most of the message that follows) is entirely inappropriate.

Can't agree. I think the complaining is reasonable and it was written as an answer to "I found a bug, it's terrible!" to show that the situation is much worse a person thought. It is also aimed to help newbies to understand the situation if they read NG as it looks like nobody want to share this (relevant and valuable) information on main `dlang.org` site but instead a newbie can read some words about stability and conclude there is no such blocking issues in D. And it looks really like the current situation as there are lots of "Can I write for Android in D?" but no "Can I write for Windows in D?".
 It's also compounded by your antics on github,
 where your contributions are marred by a tendency to bully other
 contributors and to convert most every disagreement into strife. I have
 repeatedly asked you kindly to correct that behavior to no effect.

[For someone not informed about my disrespectful posts, read my answer to Nick] I have never really answered to this so: Honestly, I can't even imagine how my malicious silly posts can touch anybody except me. If someone see this what does he think? I suppose the only case is: "That is an annoying probably stupid person. He does it because he has no actual arguments so I will not read further this discussion as he is obviously incorrect." But looks like you really feel bad because of this so I will stop my stupid mean jokes. [WARNING: the following paragraph is solely IMHO and may wrongly blame good people, remember while reading it that I'm the one who outrage more than constructive participate] If we are telling about a respect, I have to say some of the main developers show far more strong disrespect than me (that's why I feel angry sometimes). The disrespect is in ignoring another person's arguments making that person feel like "my arguments are too stupid to even be arguably rejected". So I also kindly ask the developers to correct that behaviour. The correction is easy: in the case someone feel "there is misunderstanding" one (or better two) core developers without strong opinion on the subject are asked to attach and make unprejudiced decision (when they can of course, so the discussion may be frozen for a relatively long time which will only help everybody to rethink his opinion). In the case their opinion is like the first core developer opinion the person who is against it have to stop arguing. Probably that person may have an ability to add new arguments and ask the developers to rethink their opinion, but only after a few months.
 Remember, nobody's holding a gun to your head; the door is always open
 for entering as well as leaving. It is entirely understandable if you
 find D unfit for whatever you do, or if its development process is not
 to your satisfaction. But this ongoing attitude of playing the victim,
 interpreting the team's shortcomings as incompetence doubled by malice,
 and picking fights left and right, is not helping you or anybody.

I'm not playing the victim. I'm here long enough to see and understand D shortcomings. If I discovered something unexpected and have troubles it is my own fault. I'm worrying about newbies who can start using the language as there is no warning on the main site about some shortcomings everybody have to be informed about. Damn, `std.stdio.File` is positioned as an official and working thing to read/write files (it is even on the main page) what can I add? I'm also worrying about D image in the case a count of D users will grow exponentially and (I hope it will never happen but) D will drown in hate posts of frustrated users who wasn't informed about thinks they expected to be informed about.
 I compel you again to revise your attitude toward the people you work
 and interact with in the forum and on github. If that does not happen, I
 will propose to the core team that your github account is banned from
 our project. Sorry it had to come to this.

[Again, for someone not informed about my disrespectful posts, read my answer to Nick] Of course, feel free to do it. No sarcasm here, I like D and just can't be against of pushing out somebody who cause troubles to developers. -- Денис В. Шеломовский Denis V. Shelomovskij
Apr 02 2013
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 4/2/13 4:45 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 01.04.2013 19:50, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:
 On 4/1/13 11:21 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 01.04.2013 0:02, monarch_dodra пишет:
 Bitch please!

Denis, the above (as well as most of the message that follows) is entirely inappropriate.

Can't agree. I think the complaining is reasonable and it was written as an answer to "I found a bug, it's terrible!" to show that the situation is much worse a person thought. It is also aimed to help newbies to understand the situation if they read NG as it looks like nobody want to share this (relevant and valuable) information on main `dlang.org` site but instead a newbie can read some words about stability and conclude there is no such blocking issues in D. And it looks really like the current situation as there are lots of "Can I write for Android in D?" but no "Can I write for Windows in D?".

All I'm trying to get out of this is more reason in the discussion, which I am glad to see is happening.
 It's also compounded by your antics on github,
 where your contributions are marred by a tendency to bully other
 contributors and to convert most every disagreement into strife. I have
 repeatedly asked you kindly to correct that behavior to no effect.

[For someone not informed about my disrespectful posts, read my answer to Nick] I have never really answered to this so: Honestly, I can't even imagine how my malicious silly posts can touch anybody except me. If someone see this what does he think? I suppose the only case is: "That is an annoying probably stupid person. He does it because he has no actual arguments so I will not read further this discussion as he is obviously incorrect." But looks like you really feel bad because of this so I will stop my stupid mean jokes.

Thank you.
 [WARNING: the following paragraph is solely IMHO and may wrongly blame
 good people, remember while reading it that I'm the one who outrage more
 than constructive participate]

When I write paragraphs that I find fit to start with such warnings, I usually end up deleting them - and it's been working great. :o)
 If we are telling about a respect, I have to say some of the main
 developers show far more strong disrespect than me (that's why I feel
 angry sometimes). The disrespect is in ignoring another person's
 arguments making that person feel like "my arguments are too stupid to
 even be arguably rejected". So I also kindly ask the developers to
 correct that behaviour. The correction is easy: in the case someone feel
 "there is misunderstanding" one (or better two) core developers without
 strong opinion on the subject are asked to attach and make unprejudiced
 decision (when they can of course, so the discussion may be frozen for a
 relatively long time which will only help everybody to rethink his
 opinion). In the case their opinion is like the first core developer
 opinion the person who is against it have to stop arguing. Probably that
 person may have an ability to add new arguments and ask the developers
 to rethink their opinion, but only after a few months.

I can't talk about the respect bestowed by (or the general thoughts of) an amorphous entity of volunteers such as the main dmd contributors or the github committers etc., but I can talk on my own behalf. All I can say is I tried to work with you on a couple of issues and found it unduly difficult and time-intensive, so I decided to invest what little time I had in other pursuits more likely to be productive, while leaving it to others to volunteer reviewing and pulling your code. The one thing I won't tolerate is abuse and bullying of other community members. I'd also opine that if respect is the angle of interest to you (I'd argue it shouldn't, but that's a longer discussion), this is a collaborative project by volunteers self-ranked by merit, so respect can't be asked for, but definitely can be earned. So improving the real value added by contributions - both in code and in review interactions - should definitely improve things.
 Remember, nobody's holding a gun to your head; the door is always open
 for entering as well as leaving. It is entirely understandable if you
 find D unfit for whatever you do, or if its development process is not
 to your satisfaction. But this ongoing attitude of playing the victim,
 interpreting the team's shortcomings as incompetence doubled by malice,
 and picking fights left and right, is not helping you or anybody.

I'm not playing the victim. I'm here long enough to see and understand D shortcomings. If I discovered something unexpected and have troubles it is my own fault. I'm worrying about newbies who can start using the language as there is no warning on the main site about some shortcomings everybody have to be informed about. Damn, `std.stdio.File` is positioned as an official and working thing to read/write files (it is even on the main page) what can I add?

You definitely can add the File-related bugzilla numbers that prevent you from getting work done. (Allow me to add some meta-text here - the above paragraph's rhetoric is exactly what I'm talking about that doesn't help. If the focus is adding value, then mentioning the exact issues would definitely be better than sarcastic hyperbole.)
 I'm also worrying about D image in the case a count of D users will grow
 exponentially and (I hope it will never happen but) D will drown in hate
 posts of frustrated users who wasn't informed about thinks they expected
 to be informed about.

 I compel you again to revise your attitude toward the people you work
 and interact with in the forum and on github. If that does not happen, I
 will propose to the core team that your github account is banned from
 our project. Sorry it had to come to this.

[Again, for someone not informed about my disrespectful posts, read my answer to Nick] Of course, feel free to do it. No sarcasm here, I like D and just can't be against of pushing out somebody who cause troubles to developers.

Understood. BTW there was no threat slinging there; I just wanted to be fair to you by telling you in advance what the options in front of us are. But now that the dialog has become rational and sensible, I hope and believe none of that would ever be necessary. Thanks, Andrei
Apr 03 2013
parent reply Denis Shelomovskij <verylonglogin.reg gmail.com> writes:
03.04.2013 21:35, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:
 On 4/2/13 4:45 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 I'm worrying about newbies who can start using the language as there is
 no warning on the main site about some shortcomings everybody have to be
 informed about. Damn, `std.stdio.File` is positioned as an official and
 working thing to read/write files (it is even on the main page) what can
 I add?

You definitely can add the File-related bugzilla numbers that prevent you from getting work done. (Allow me to add some meta-text here - the above paragraph's rhetoric is exactly what I'm talking about that doesn't help. If the focus is adding value, then mentioning the exact issues would definitely be better than sarcastic hyperbole.)

This is "Issue 7648 - std.stdio expects file names to be encoded in CP_ACP on Windows instead of UTF-8" [1]. I also opened a pull with cautionary note [2]. [1] http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=7648 [2] https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/1238 -- Денис В. Шеломовский Denis V. Shelomovskij
Apr 03 2013
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 4/3/13 3:40 PM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 03.04.2013 21:35, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:
 On 4/2/13 4:45 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 I'm worrying about newbies who can start using the language as there is
 no warning on the main site about some shortcomings everybody have to be
 informed about. Damn, `std.stdio.File` is positioned as an official and
 working thing to read/write files (it is even on the main page) what can
 I add?

You definitely can add the File-related bugzilla numbers that prevent you from getting work done. (Allow me to add some meta-text here - the above paragraph's rhetoric is exactly what I'm talking about that doesn't help. If the focus is adding value, then mentioning the exact issues would definitely be better than sarcastic hyperbole.)

This is "Issue 7648 - std.stdio expects file names to be encoded in CP_ACP on Windows instead of UTF-8" [1]. I also opened a pull with cautionary note [2]. [1] http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=7648 [2] https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/1238

Great, thanks! Could someone with more experience in Windows review and pull this comment? What would be the design of a fix? Andrei
Apr 03 2013
parent Denis Shelomovskij <verylonglogin.reg gmail.com> writes:
04.04.2013 0:54, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:
 On 4/3/13 3:40 PM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 This is "Issue 7648 - std.stdio expects file names to be encoded in
 CP_ACP on Windows instead of UTF-8" [1]. I also opened a pull with
 cautionary note [2].

 [1] http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=7648
 [2] https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/1238

Great, thanks! Could someone with more experience in Windows review and pull this comment? What would be the design of a fix? Andrei

IMHO, as there is already a working stuff for file IO in Phobos the main issue is the lack of this comment. As a fix I'd like to rewrite the module using OS API to finally solve other issues but I failed with it because of lack of time. If half year awaiting a appropriate you can assign this to me. No 100% guarantee, of course, but a chance to be stigmatized will force me to finish the work. -- Денис В. Шеломовский Denis V. Shelomovskij
Apr 03 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 11:50:22 -0400
Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 On 4/1/13 11:21 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
 01.04.2013 0:02, monarch_dodra =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82:
 This is a two part post.

 The reason I'm worried about this bug is that the only condition
 that seems to trigger it passing an object that has a destructor.
 I find this is very bothersome, because it can happen with
 perfectly safe code, and its "observable condition" is perfectly
 undefined. Finally, it only appears in -O, biting you in the ass
 in the worst possible moment.

Nothing personal, I do respect you, but Bitch please!

=20 Denis, the above (as well as most of the message that follows) is=20 entirely inappropriate. It's also compounded by your antics on github, where your contributions are marred by a tendency to bully other contributors and to convert most every disagreement into strife. I have repeatedly asked you kindly to correct that behavior to no effect. =20 Remember, nobody's holding a gun to your head; the door is always open for entering as well as leaving. It is entirely understandable if you find D unfit for whatever you do, or if its development process is not to your satisfaction. But this ongoing attitude of playing the victim, interpreting the team's shortcomings as incompetence doubled by malice, and picking fights left and right, is not helping you or anybody. =20 I compel you again to revise your attitude toward the people you work=20 and interact with in the forum and on github. If that does not happen, I will propose to the core team that your github account is banned from our project. Sorry it had to come to this. =20

Geez. It just sounded like a reasonable expression of frustration to me. *I've* said shit on here that was *far* less level-headed. More than once. But then, I never said anything implying an inability to use D reliably. So I can't help wondering if there's some PR-motivated bias here. Well, ok, I *do* realize there probably isn't, but when you respond with the threat of a ban to a fairly reasonable post about frustrations from having major trouble with the language, then first of all, that overreacting, but worse: people can easily misconstrue that as an attempt to sweep real problems things under the rug. I know nobody's trying to do that, but we definitely don't want people thinking we are. And that definitely makes it look like we are.
Apr 01 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 3/31/2013 1:02 PM, monarch_dodra wrote:
 The second part of this post is about a specific (OSX related) bug. I don't
like
 drawing attention to it such as this, as I know we are all busy, but I think
 this one is serious enough to try to push for its investigation:
 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9720

 May I kindly
 request that those with the required knowledge to fix this bug try to
 investigate it?

The bug has been fixed. (It's awaiting review/pull.) Thanks for taking the time to report it, and sorry about the trouble it caused.
Apr 02 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent "monarch_dodra" <monarchdodra gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 2 April 2013 at 09:05:08 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 3/31/2013 1:02 PM, monarch_dodra wrote:
 The second part of this post is about a specific (OSX related) 
 bug. I don't like
 drawing attention to it such as this, as I know we are all 
 busy, but I think
 this one is serious enough to try to push for its 
 investigation:
 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9720

 May I kindly
 request that those with the required knowledge to fix this bug 
 try to
 investigate it?

The bug has been fixed. (It's awaiting review/pull.) Thanks for taking the time to report it, and sorry about the trouble it caused.

Most awesome. Thank you.
Apr 02 2013
prev sibling next sibling parent Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 11:20:26 +0400
Denis Shelomovskij <verylonglogin.reg gmail.com> wrote:
 
 P.S.
 Also, Nick, if you have time, could you show me, how do you suggest
 "to use D reliably" in non toy Windows projects as you "never said
 anything" against it?
 

Don't do incremental compilation. Stick to the releases instead of Git master, and if you do use Git master, make sure to 1. make clean everything (dmd, phobos, druntime) before recompiling and 2. make sure all three, dmd, phobos, druntime always match - don't update one without updating the others. Aside from that stuff though, I haven't personally run into the problems you describe, so I really don't know.
Apr 02 2013
prev sibling parent kraybit <stdin kraybit.com> writes:
On 3/31/13 22:02 , monarch_dodra wrote:
 This is a two part post.

 First, I wanted to pol how many users out there were developing under
 OSX? [...]

 The second part of this post is about a specific (OSX related) bug.[...]

I'm on OSX, know nothing about bug. /k
Apr 03 2013