• Somedude (12/12) Dec 11 2011 Just for the record, non-null static and runtime analysis is implemented
• deadalnix (10/22) Dec 11 2011 We definitively should have a non nullable type in D. Null check are:
• =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alex_R=F8nne_Petersen?= (5/33) Dec 11 2011 I think the idea with D's @disable attribute on default struct
• deadalnix (4/44) Dec 11 2011 Definitively, it should be done the other way around : Non null by
• Timon Gehr (3/43) Dec 11 2011 D cannot support library NonNull types because there is no way to get
• bearophile (15/20) Dec 12 2011 It looks very nice.

Somedude <lovelydear mailmetrash.com> writes:

Just for the record, non-null static and runtime analysis is implemented
in a number of Java projects.

http://eclipseandjazz.blogspot.com/2011/12/inter-procedural-null-analysis-using.html
Anotation based Static analysis for eclipse

* javax.validation.constraints.NotNull
Created for runtime validation, not static analysis.

* edu.umd.cs.findbugs.annotations.NonNull
Static analysis

* com.intellij.annotations.NotNull
Used by IntelliJ IDEA IDE for static analysis.

* lombok.NonNull
Annotation used to control code generation in Project Lombok.

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

Le 11/12/2011 11:29, Somedude a écrit :
 Just for the record, non-null static and runtime analysis is implemented
 in a number of Java projects.

 http://eclipseandjazz.blogspot.com/2011/12/inter-procedural-null-analysis-using.html
 Anotation based Static analysis for eclipse

 * javax.validation.constraints.NotNull
 Created for runtime validation, not static analysis.

 * edu.umd.cs.findbugs.annotations.NonNull
 Static analysis

 * com.intellij.annotations.NotNull
 Used by IntelliJ IDEA IDE for static analysis.

 * lombok.NonNull
 Annotation used to control code generation in Project Lombok.

We definitively should have a non nullable type in D. Null check are:
  - Easy to forget, leading to catastrophic results when forgotten.
  - Crippling the codebase at an alarming speed if you want reliable code.

Plus, when an error occurs with null, it is usually hard to track and 
solve, because you have to understand how that b****y variable ends up 
being null.

Arguably, things should be non nullable by default.

Tony Hoare (inventor of null ?) recently gave this conference : 
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Null-References-The-Billion-Dollar-Mistake-Tony-Hoare

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Alex_R=F8nne_Petersen?= <xtzgzorex gmail.com> writes:

On 11-12-2011 14:18, deadalnix wrote:
 Le 11/12/2011 11:29, Somedude a écrit :
 Just for the record, non-null static and runtime analysis is implemented
 in a number of Java projects.

 http://eclipseandjazz.blogspot.com/2011/12/inter-procedural-null-analysis-using.html

 Anotation based Static analysis for eclipse

 * javax.validation.constraints.NotNull
 Created for runtime validation, not static analysis.

 * edu.umd.cs.findbugs.annotations.NonNull
 Static analysis

 * com.intellij.annotations.NotNull
 Used by IntelliJ IDEA IDE for static analysis.

 * lombok.NonNull
 Annotation used to control code generation in Project Lombok.

 We definitively should have a non nullable type in D. Null check are:
 - Easy to forget, leading to catastrophic results when forgotten.
 - Crippling the codebase at an alarming speed if you want reliable code.

 Plus, when an error occurs with null, it is usually hard to track and
 solve, because you have to understand how that b****y variable ends up
 being null.

 Arguably, things should be non nullable by default.

 Tony Hoare (inventor of null ?) recently gave this conference :
 http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Null-References-The-Billion-Dollar-Mistake-Tony-Hoare

I think the idea with D's  disable attribute on default struct 
contructors is to allow implementing a NoNull type. Still, I'd prefer 
having it in the language.

- Alex

deadalnix <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:

Le 11/12/2011 14:19, Alex Rønne Petersen a écrit :
 On 11-12-2011 14:18, deadalnix wrote:
 Le 11/12/2011 11:29, Somedude a écrit :
 Just for the record, non-null static and runtime analysis is implemented
 in a number of Java projects.

 http://eclipseandjazz.blogspot.com/2011/12/inter-procedural-null-analysis-using.html


 Anotation based Static analysis for eclipse

 * javax.validation.constraints.NotNull
 Created for runtime validation, not static analysis.

 * edu.umd.cs.findbugs.annotations.NonNull
 Static analysis

 * com.intellij.annotations.NotNull
 Used by IntelliJ IDEA IDE for static analysis.

 * lombok.NonNull
 Annotation used to control code generation in Project Lombok.

 We definitively should have a non nullable type in D. Null check are:
 - Easy to forget, leading to catastrophic results when forgotten.
 - Crippling the codebase at an alarming speed if you want reliable code.

 Plus, when an error occurs with null, it is usually hard to track and
 solve, because you have to understand how that b****y variable ends up
 being null.

 Arguably, things should be non nullable by default.

 Tony Hoare (inventor of null ?) recently gave this conference :
 http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Null-References-The-Billion-Dollar-Mistake-Tony-Hoare

 I think the idea with D's  disable attribute on default struct
 contructors is to allow implementing a NoNull type. Still, I'd prefer
 having it in the language.

 - Alex

Definitively, it should be done the other way around : Non null by 
default, and Nullable!(T) in the standard lib.

Most of the time, you don't want null, and have to check them.

Timon Gehr <timon.gehr gmx.ch> writes:

On 12/11/2011 02:19 PM, Alex Rønne Petersen wrote:
 On 11-12-2011 14:18, deadalnix wrote:
 Le 11/12/2011 11:29, Somedude a écrit :
 Just for the record, non-null static and runtime analysis is implemented
 in a number of Java projects.

 http://eclipseandjazz.blogspot.com/2011/12/inter-procedural-null-analysis-using.html


 Anotation based Static analysis for eclipse

 * javax.validation.constraints.NotNull
 Created for runtime validation, not static analysis.

 * edu.umd.cs.findbugs.annotations.NonNull
 Static analysis

 * com.intellij.annotations.NotNull
 Used by IntelliJ IDEA IDE for static analysis.

 * lombok.NonNull
 Annotation used to control code generation in Project Lombok.

 We definitively should have a non nullable type in D. Null check are:
 - Easy to forget, leading to catastrophic results when forgotten.
 - Crippling the codebase at an alarming speed if you want reliable code.

 Plus, when an error occurs with null, it is usually hard to track and
 solve, because you have to understand how that b****y variable ends up
 being null.

 Arguably, things should be non nullable by default.

 Tony Hoare (inventor of null ?) recently gave this conference :
 http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Null-References-The-Billion-Dollar-Mistake-Tony-Hoare

 I think the idea with D's  disable attribute on default struct
 contructors is to allow implementing a NoNull type. Still, I'd prefer
 having it in the language.

 - Alex

D cannot support library NonNull types because there is no way to get 
initialization right.

bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:

Somedude:

 Just for the record, non-null static and runtime analysis is implemented
 in a number of Java projects.
 
 http://eclipseandjazz.blogspot.com/2011/12/inter-procedural-null-analysis-using.html
 Anotation based Static analysis for eclipse

It looks very nice.

Instead of that Java syntax:
 NonNull Object foo( NonNull Object x) {...

For D2 I have suggested a more handy and short syntax, a trailing   means
non-null:
object  foo(object  x) {...

A leading (usually optional, because it's the default, but in some situations
you need to use it) ? means nullable:
object? foo(object? x) {...

The question mark is useful in some situations:
Foo  foo = new Foo(); // foo is non-null
auto f = cast(?)foo; // cast to nullable

Some notes here:
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4571

Bye,
bearophile