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digitalmars.D - More phpBB like forum?

reply Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
Hi all,
Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.

However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.

To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.

At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
newsgroup.
Dec 08 2008
next sibling parent reply Gregor Richards <Richards codu.org> writes:
Daniel White wrote:
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet)

Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out? - Gregor Richards
Dec 08 2008
next sibling parent reply BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Gregor,

 Daniel White wrote:
 
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet)
 

- Gregor Richards

Oh quit being sutch a grouch /j <G> We do REALLY need to get something better for the on line news page.
Dec 08 2008
parent "Saaa" <empty needmail.com> writes:
 We do REALLY need to get something better for the on line news page.

But who can be bothered with the signing in just to blog your mood. That is why I vote for an imageboard. btw. bump
Dec 08 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?

Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.
 What about dsource?

Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for newcomers to miss. Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no 'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent Janderson <ask me.com> writes:
Daniel White wrote:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?

Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.

Of course you probably know that from thunderbird you can edit these posts. -Joel
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Chad J <gamerchad __spam.is.bad__gmail.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?

would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.

And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.

/remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Chad J wrote:
 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> 
 wrote:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?

would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.

And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.

/remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.

Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent Kagamin <spam here.lot> writes:
Walter Bright Wrote:

 Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's 
 another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to 
 quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way 
 to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

You meant, there *was* no way, right?
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Chad J wrote:
 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> 
 wrote:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?

would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.

And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.

/remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.

Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

Most (all?) modern forum software have several viewing options. Depending on the forum package, you may see things like: unread posts since last visit, all unread posts, all of your threads which which have unread posts, all watched threads which have unread posts and so on. Plus, there is usually a configuration option to email you when watched threads, or threads you are participating in, get new posts. Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.
Dec 09 2008
parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
Mike Parker wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 Chad J wrote:
 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White 
 <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?

would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.

And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.

/remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.

Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

Most (all?) modern forum software have several viewing options. Depending on the forum package, you may see things like: unread posts since last visit, all unread posts, all of your threads which which have unread posts, all watched threads which have unread posts and so on. Plus, there is usually a configuration option to email you when watched threads, or threads you are participating in, get new posts. Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had. The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.

[1] http://www.simplemachines.org/
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> writes:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Mike Parker wrote:

 Years ago, I followed many newsgroups because that was the only thing we had.
 The D newsgroups are the only ones I follow these days, because I have no
 choice. It also is the only reason I run Thunderbird (the web interface
 sucks), as I check all of my email accounts through GMail. I would much prefer
 a good forum software package (I'm a big fan of SMF[1] which I run on a game
 guild web site). Greater flexibility, more features and no extra software
 required. Newsgroups are so 20th century.

Subscribe your gmail account to the mailing list and that'd allow you to stop using thunderbird. http://lists.puremagic.com/ Later, Brad
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright
 This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.

problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

Have you used a web forum? They show you precisely what you have and haven't read.

Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded on one page?)
Dec 09 2008
parent Janderson <ask me.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright
 This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.

another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

Have you used a web forum? They show you precisely what you have and haven't read.

Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded on one page?)

Some boards like the company I work for's "League of Lengends" community forum (forums.leagueoflegends.com) have several pages which makes it easier to find unread threads. Also if there is a new post to the thread, that thread is moved to the top and marked as unread again. Not quite what your asking for but pretty close. -Joel
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent reply Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
 and - the big one for me - remote state

Is it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New" section at: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly. Dan Jarrett Billingsley Wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?

Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.

And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state. I have two computers, one of which is dual-booted, and I use lab computers as well. A newsreader client does _not_ work for me. GMail + mailing lists is _okay_ but I'd really prefer something that was really made for this kind of discussion.
 What about dsource?

Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for newcomers to miss. Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no 'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?

The other problem with the dsource forum is that next to no one uses it. Notice the most recent post on there is from over a month ago. It would be great to have a unified interface.

Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Daniel,

 and - the big one for me - remote state
 

section at: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=di gitalmars.D This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly. Dan

irconic as IIRC most threads that get broken here are a result of that interface.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of
 shit.  It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface
 itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't
 thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's
 just broken in some areas.  For example, if you are on any board other
 than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you
 to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*.

Is there a better one that's free, and has no administration effort?
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?

Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.

And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state. I have two computers, one of which is dual-booted, and I use lab computers as well. A newsreader client does _not_ work for me. GMail + mailing lists is _okay_ but I'd really prefer something that was really made for this kind of discussion.
 What about dsource?

Aha, so there is a forum. But case in point, I didn't know about it. Okay, having a look at the main DigitalMars D site I've just found a link to the dsource site, but it wasn't a main link on the left side panel, so it's very easy for newcomers to miss. Except it's probably not meant for newcomers, as there's no 'help' forum there. But to have two seperate forums/lists is a pain surely? Would it be good for them to be unified?

The other problem with the dsource forum is that next to no one uses it. Notice the most recent post on there is from over a month ago. It would be great to have a unified interface.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 Chad J wrote:
 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com>
 wrote:
 Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet"
 thing pans out?

Lol. In all fairness though, a centralized phpBB-like forum would allow editing of posts, and probably other advantages (better quoting, and image support) - something not available in this current system.

And better code formatting, and a reduction in sockpuppetry, and - the big one for me - remote state.

... /remote state/ YES yes yes. This whole client-side state thingy bothers me quite a bit as well.

Yeah, but if it's all on the server (like reddit, slashdot) there's another problem. If you're engaged in an active topic, there's no way to quickly scan the page to see if anything new is posted. There's no way to tell what you've read and what you haven't.

Have you used a web forum? They show you precisely what you have and haven't read.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:
 and - the big one for me - remote state

Is it just me, or can't this be achieved by going to the "Web-New" section at: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?search_txt=&group=digitalmars.D This is better than what I've seen before, as it's threaded properly.

Not at all what I'm looking for. Basically all I want out of a "public discussion area" interface (whatever it is) is that I can see what messages I haven't yet read. The web-news interface does not do that. The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of shit. It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's just broken in some areas. For example, if you are on any board other than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*. Also, stop top-posting, unless you want to feel the wrath of one of the people who feels it's their moral obligation to berate those who top-post. (top-posting is putting the quoted post after your own, if you didn't know already.)
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 Yes, I've used them. Reddit, Digg, Stackoverflow, and Slashdot do *not* show
 you what you have and have not read. I've used other fora too, and they
 don't show either. They'll show what *thread* I've clicked on before, but
 not what I've read. (And how could they, when all the messages are expanded
 on one page?)

No no, those aren't forums. Those are more or less glorified threaded comments. I'm talking about actual bulletin-board forum software - phpBB, YaBB, SMF, etc. Like the kind at dsource.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 The other problem with the web-news interface is that it's a piece of
 shit.  It breaks threading, it doesn't obey many RFCs, the interface
 itself is terrible (as someone, maybe you, mentioned, it doesn't
 thread entire conversations, only a given number of posts), and it's
 just broken in some areas.  For example, if you are on any board other
 than digitalmars.D, clicking replies _does not work_ as it takes you
 to the "right" message ID on the *wrong board*.

Is there a better one that's free, and has no administration effort?

None that I know of, and from some of the other replies the chances seem slim. It sounds hackish but perhaps something could be set up through the mailing lists. They seem to handle things very nicely and have archives back to at least the beginning of 2006. The archives are also auto-threaded. I'm sure it wouldn't take long to set up a few simple pages - or even to modify the mailing list archive viewers - to allow sending NG messages as well as viewing them.
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent reply Kyle Furlong <kylefurlong gmail.com> writes:
Gregor Richards wrote:
 Daniel White wrote:
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet)

Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out? - Gregor Richards

Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone should have a newsreader by now, but in fact, my generation knows little about newsgroups, since by the time we came on the scene the internet had passed them by in favor of html based forums. Do a census of 26-19 year olds, even tech-savvy ones, and you wont find a significant portion with the capability or know how to browse newsgroups.
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Kyle Furlong wrote:
 Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone 
 should have a newsreader by now, but in fact, my generation knows little 
 about newsgroups, since by the time we came on the scene the internet 
 had passed them by in favor of html based forums.
 
 Do a census of 26-19 year olds, even tech-savvy ones, and you wont find 
 a significant portion with the capability or know how to browse newsgroups.

When my dad was in the Air Force during the Vietnam war, they had to bring a bunch of prop transports back from retirement into service. They had one the mechanics just couldn't get the engines to run right on. They studied the manuals, and did everything they could think of, yet the engines just didn't put out the power they were rated at. The Air Force finally dug up an old grizzled mechanic out of retirement to come have a look. He listened to them run for a moment, then fixed them up promptly. There's a lot of knowledge about those machines that never made it into the manuals. Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Walter,

 Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz
 at 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(
 

If anyone does, you can send it to the daily WTF.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
"Walter Bright" wrote
 Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 
 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(

I work mainly with writing tests/initialization scripts for x86-based systems for issues before my company ships them. For some ungodly reason, most hardware vendors insist on providing DOS-only firmware loading tools and hardware testing tools for their components. So we have a dos-based PXE boot which mounts a CIFS network drive with all the scripts and tools necessary to load firmware, run drive tests, etc. Even network card vendors STILL provide network drivers for new cards in DOS!!! Don't give up hope yet ;) -Steve
Dec 10 2008
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
 "Walter Bright" wrote
 Somehow, though, I doubt anyone is going to pay me for my leet skillz at 
 16 bit DOS programs ever again :-(

I work mainly with writing tests/initialization scripts for x86-based systems for issues before my company ships them. For some ungodly reason, most hardware vendors insist on providing DOS-only firmware loading tools and hardware testing tools for their components. So we have a dos-based PXE boot which mounts a CIFS network drive with all the scripts and tools necessary to load firmware, run drive tests, etc. Even network card vendors STILL provide network drivers for new cards in DOS!!! Don't give up hope yet ;)

I get about one customer a year who asks me a question about the DOS capabilities of DMC.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> writes:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Kyle Furlong wrote:

 Gregor Richards wrote:
 Daniel White wrote:
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet)

Waitin' 'til '91 or so to see if this whole "Internet" thing pans out? - Gregor Richards

Actually Gregor, the opposite is true. You're implying that anyone should have a newsreader by now, but in fact, my generation knows little about newsgroups, since by the time we came on the scene the internet had passed them by in favor of html based forums. Do a census of 26-19 year olds, even tech-savvy ones, and you wont find a significant portion with the capability or know how to browse newsgroups.

Survey that same set and you'll also probably find a high percentage that can't: 1) describe what pointers are 2) describe how hash tables work 3) tell you any detail about how network routing works 4) describe how email routing works ... The list goes on. It hardly proves any point that there's a segment of a population that doesn't know how to do something. I haven't yet seen a forum that does as good a job as email does for monitoring traffic in a discussion or set of discussions. That includes nntp to a large degree. I acknowledge that user requirements differ though. I'd be happy enough with a forum that allowed me to configure my account to automatically send every message posted to my email address with proper threading headers and additionally handled properly me replying to the emails and having them show up appropriately via the web pages. So far, I've not found that to exist (admitedly with rather little investigation). Most allow you to tag threads to be watched, but don't deal with new topics/threads/whatever. And most don't support bi-directionality. Given one that supports both of those two main features, all three of nntp, mail, and forum could easily be stitched together. Setup the forum software, subscribe it to the mail lists I provide. Those already gateway to/from the newsgroups. Icing on the cake would be removing redundancy of data stores, but that's less important, imho. Additionally, backfilling the duplicated datastores would be nice, but not required. So, if you're passionate about using forum software, find one that meets the requirements and get it setup. It doesn't need to be some mythical 'someone' doing it on behalf of those that want it. Do it. Get it working. Later, Brad
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Janderson <ask me.com> writes:
Daniel White wrote:
 Hi all,
 Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
 phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
 the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
 parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
 
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
 posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
 
 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
 
 At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
 newsgroup.

What about dsource? http://www.dsource.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=bf42f9a6c5dd6e1a22725d571610e216 -Joel
Dec 08 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Daniel White wrote:
 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.

http://www.osronline.com claims to have such a system for their forums. I signed up for it, but their server rejects my attempts to use Thunderbird's newsgroup reader on it, so I can't vouch for it actually working.
Dec 09 2008
parent Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
To be honest, this 'Web-News' system is almost quite good, since
it acts in many ways like a forum does. The only thing which bothers
me is not being able to view all posts in a single thread on one page.
I need to click each child to read further.

Also code formatting, and proper quoting would be nice :D


Walter Bright Wrote:

 Daniel White wrote:
 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.

http://www.osronline.com claims to have such a system for their forums. I signed up for it, but their server rejects my attempts to use Thunderbird's newsgroup reader on it, so I can't vouch for it actually working.

Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Morusaka <morusaka inwind.it> writes:
As a newcomer, I think more has to be done to make info about D more accessible.
I'm thinking of what comes after one reads the first steps tutorial... and one
of that things could be a forum.

Luca.

Daniel White Wrote:

 Hi all,
 Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
 phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
 the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
 parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
 
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
 posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
 
 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
 
 At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
 newsgroup.

Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent reply Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing I look for is a
newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have basically
no interest in web forums.

== Quote from Morusaka (morusaka inwind.it)'s article
 As a newcomer, I think more has to be done to make info about D more
accessible.
 I'm thinking of what comes after one reads the first steps tutorial... and one
of that things could be a

 Luca.
 Daniel White Wrote:
 Hi all,
 Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
 phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
 the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
 parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.

 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
 posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.

 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.

 At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
 newsgroup.


Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent reply Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
Sean Kelly Wrote:

 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.

I think you may be right. Apparently, there is (or was) a massive division between the ASP.net forum and the official Microsoft ASP newsgroup. In the end, it would seem the primary advantages of newsgroups over forums are speed and offline reading. As time progresses, I'm guessing the second problem will be reduced greatly, and the first problem shouldn't even be an issue, but somehow is. I know that many phpBB-style forums (including phpBB) feel slothful to post, refresh and generally navigate. It's almost as though they're crawling over an encrypted https connection. There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB. But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread) seem hard to ignore.
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Daniel White wrote:

 Sean Kelly Wrote:
 
 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.


 There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB.
 But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over
 newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread)
 seem hard to ignore.

I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell
Dec 09 2008
parent reply Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
Hi Derek,
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were
a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB,
actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also
was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard
forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you
potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are
intrinsic to forums per se.

In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary
advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and
almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that
forums offer?

Dan
Derek Parnell Wrote:

 On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Daniel White wrote:
 
 Sean Kelly Wrote:
 
 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.


 There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB.
 But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over
 newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread)
 seem hard to ignore.

I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell

Dec 09 2008
parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> writes:
For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I 
have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.  I 
already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's 
incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than 
anything else.  That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the 
D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges.  Any use of forums by 
me would require an automatic email gateway.

Just my 2 cents,
Brad

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Daniel White wrote:

 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:14:32 -0500
 From: Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com>
 Reply-To: digitalmars.D <digitalmars-d puremagic.com>
 To: digitalmars-d puremagic.com
 Newsgroups: digitalmars.D
 Subject: Re: More phpBB like forum?
 
 Hi Derek,
 I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were
 a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB,
 actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also
 was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard
 forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you
 potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are
 intrinsic to forums per se.
 
 In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary
 advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and
 almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that
 forums offer?
 
 Dan
 Derek Parnell Wrote:
 
 On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Daniel White wrote:
 
 Sean Kelly Wrote:
 
 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.


 There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB.
 But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over
 newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread)
 seem hard to ignore.

I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell


Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent reply Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
Hi Brad,
Good point I guess. While it's nice to have centralization for a forum's
posts, the kind of centralization you're talking about is extracting from
potentially multiple sites, and going to your inbox.

I suppose the only way to get the best of these worlds is for a
system to combine all wanted forums into one (personalized)
online dynamic mega-forum. Something like Google Reader maybe?

+speed, +1 thin line per (expandable) thread = bliss. There ya go,
the perfect forum/board/list/newsgroup ;) Sigh...

Dan



Brad Roberts Wrote:

 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I 
 have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.  I 
 already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's 
 incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than 
 anything else.  That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the 
 D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges.  Any use of forums by 
 me would require an automatic email gateway.
 
 Just my 2 cents,
 Brad
 
 On Tue, 9 Dec 2008, Daniel White wrote:
 
 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:14:32 -0500
 From: Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com>
 Reply-To: digitalmars.D <digitalmars-d puremagic.com>
 To: digitalmars-d puremagic.com
 Newsgroups: digitalmars.D
 Subject: Re: More phpBB like forum?
 
 Hi Derek,
 I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but if there were
 a forum which was very, very fast (much faster than phpBB,
 actually let's say near instant) for posting/navigation, and also
 was more economical in space (it's rarely said, but most standard
 forums eat up 2 or 3 lines of real estate per thread!), could you
 potentially prefer forums? It's not like these problems are
 intrinsic to forums per se.
 
 In other words, is it not conceivable that most of the primary
 advantages of nntp could be transferred over, by looking, and
 almost acting like nntp, but with a more centralized system that
 forums offer?
 
 Dan
 Derek Parnell Wrote:
 
 On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:25:24 -0500, Daniel White wrote:
 
 Sean Kelly Wrote:
 
 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing
 look for is a newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that,
 a mailing list.  I have basically no interest in web forums.


 There must be forums out there that feel faster than say, phpBB.
 But in any case, the advantages that forums in general have over
 newsgroups (many of which have been mentioned in this thread)
 seem hard to ignore.

I am also a person that dislikes using web-based forums. If one is established, it would hope that posting to it would also automatically post to the nttp server and visa versa. I realize that many people like web-based forums, but I have always found them to be be awkward, slow, and inconvenient. A good nttp reader is not hard to find. I use 40tude-dialog which enables me to see the posts as either flat or threaded at my pleasure. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia skype: derek.j.parnell



Dec 09 2008
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:
 Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the
 digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.

More than that, there's the little problem that Google is apparently not interested in indexing newsgroups that aren't on standard Usenet servers.

Except that they do index many of them, apparently on a case-by-case basis. They never replied to my repeated requests that they index our n.g., and after a while I thought perhaps that was best.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:
 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I 
 have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.  I

In my case, it seems wasteful to use a newsreader just to check the D ngs. I do everything from my browser except checking these newsgroups. I check all of my email accounts through gmail, I visit half a dozen programming forums, I check reddit for interesting stuff, and so on. If it weren't for these D newsgroups, I'd have no reason to open Thunderbird anymore. In fact, before picking up D I hadn't used a newsgroup reader in years and didn't miss it a bit.
 already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's 
 incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than 
 anything else.  That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the 
 D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges.  Any use of forums by 
 me would require an automatic email gateway.
 

Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> writes:
 I visit half a dozen programming forums

In fairness to NNTP, you'd only have to check your inbox in one place rather than visit 6 different forums. That's where my "collate-bits-and pieces-from-different-forums-and-merge-them-into-one-mega- personalized-mega-forum" idea would come in useful if it existed.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Saaa" <empty needmail.com> writes:
  I visit half a dozen programming forums

(Check to see what I am missing :)
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Mike,

 Brad Roberts wrote:
 
 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that
 I have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is
 wasteful.  I
 

ngs. I do everything from my browser except checking these newsgroups. I check all of my email accounts through gmail, I visit half a dozen programming forums, I check reddit for interesting stuff, and so on. If it weren't for these D newsgroups, I'd have no reason to open Thunderbird anymore. In fact, before picking up D I hadn't used a newsgroup reader in years and didn't miss it a bit.

How long does that take you? I start two programs opening (TB and my NG reader) and go chat with my boss at the start of each day. A few minutes later my computer shows me a list of everything I care about (except the sudo-forum Stackoverflow) and I can cull through that an a mater of a few minuets overhead. After that, I basically forget about it till something say I have something to look at. Yes having more that one way to get your fix is wasteful but the first one to go for me is the /web based/ interfaces.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Denis Koroskin wrote:
 But those users who visit digitalmars.D just to know if there are any 
 interesting topics discussed or to ask a question once in a while prefer 
 traditional web-based interface. In fact, these newsgroup have great 
 amount of useful information, but you have to fetch all the messages for 
 doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache is about 
 800Mb!). This is hardly possible for a newcomer. OTOH, any decent forum 
 has a search functionality built-in.
 
 I believe that both should coexist, but a better integration between 
 them is needed for sure.

There are the archives, updated weekly, at: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/ It even has search!
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:
 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing I look for is a
 newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have
basically
 no interest in web forums.

Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!! (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Walter,

 (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)
 

Anything that can end with a hotfix from M$ is not useless! http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2008/10/sql-2008-upgrade-tuning-for-stackoverflowcom/
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling parent reply Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Sean Kelly wrote:
 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing I look 
 for is a
 newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have 
 basically
 no interest in web forums.

Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!! (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)

If there is, I haven't seen it :-) I try to stay somewhat up on trends just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what I'm doing from minute to minute. Sean
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Sean Kelly wrote:
 If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends 
 just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what 
 I'm doing from minute to minute.

The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh.
Dec 10 2008
next sibling parent reply Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Sean Kelly wrote:
 If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends
 just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what
 I'm doing from minute to minute.

The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh.

It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added the l33t feature foo too app bar". A good or interesting twitter account will probably get very many followers to show for it. What I find weird are those that themselves follow equally many accounts (hundreds) - they have spare time issues :) -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the Tango
Dec 11 2008
next sibling parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> writes:
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008, Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:

 Walter Bright wrote:
 
 Sean Kelly wrote:
 If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends
 just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what
 I'm doing from minute to minute.

The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a cup of copy. bleh.

It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added the l33t feature foo too app bar". A good or interesting twitter account will probably get very many followers to show for it. What I find weird are those that themselves follow equally many accounts (hundreds) - they have spare time issues :) -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the Tango

While I don't use twitter either, it could be thought of as a pubsub broker with a rather bizarre api. That some people feel the need to publish their drinking events, and others feel the need to subscribe to someone's drinking behavior.. well, to each his own. However, since it really is a pub/sub system, it'd be interesting to look for interesting one -> many programatic use cases that could take advantage of it. Later, Brad
Dec 11 2008
parent Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
Brad Roberts wrote:
 However, since it really is a pub/sub system, it'd be interesting to look 
 for interesting one -> many programatic use cases that could take 
 advantage of it.

I'm looking into creating a service bus with twitter as its transport mechanism. Unfortunately, I think it won't be terribly durable.
 Later,
 Brad

Dec 11 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Ary Borenszweig <ary esperanto.org.ar> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 
 Sean Kelly wrote:
 If there is, I haven't seen it :-)  I try to stay somewhat up on trends
 just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what
 I'm doing from minute to minute.

drinking a cup of copy. bleh.

It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added the l33t feature foo too app bar".

In my workplace they used twitter for an humanitarian project: http://code.google.com/p/geochat/ --- Geochat emerged from a simple concept - can I send an SMS message and see it on a map? From there the concept has evolved, and geochat has become a project to build a collaboration platform for the lowest common denominator communication tools, considering as highest priorities the needs of workers of humantiarian aid, international health and disaster response. The main drivers for the project are the feedback of the InSTEDD programs in South East Asia, excercises such as GoldenShadow, and a growing community of humanitarian and health workers who spend their days in technologically austere environments. We invite anyone from any line of work to use and contribute user experience, technical, and any other kind of feedback. --- And this is what Golden Shadow is about: http://instedd.org/goldenshadow :-)
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is
 nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on
 blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and
 neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many
 open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports
 from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added
 the l33t feature foo too app bar".

I just can't imagine real time reports of adding a line of code/feature to a product would be useful. The timescale is at issue - to add a feature to a significant product requires coding (which may take days) followed by testing (many hours). Would anyone be hanging on twitter waiting for this? That said, twitter might be useful if you're at a conference and want to know where your buds are headed for dinner or who is right now giving a talk that is interesting.
Dec 11 2008
next sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound1 digitalmars.com)'s article
 That said, twitter might be useful if you're at a conference and want to
 know where your buds are headed for dinner or who is right now giving a
 talk that is interesting.

There are some really interesting apps for the iPhone that integrate the GPS features of the phone with messaging and whatnot. Definitely very cool if you live in an urban environment and want to keep in touch with friends. Sean
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent reply Lars Ivar Igesund <larsivar igesund.net> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:

 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 It is up to you to use twitter for something useful - saying there is
 nothing useful on twitter is like saying there is nothing useful on
 blogs. Not everyone write blogs about their last cup of tea, and
 neither do everyone tweet about it. In particular I know that many
 open source projects use twitter as a way to collect mini-reports
 from the community, and do mini-reporting themselves aka "just added
 the l33t feature foo too app bar".

I just can't imagine real time reports of adding a line of code/feature to a product would be useful. The timescale is at issue - to add a feature to a significant product requires coding (which may take days) followed by testing (many hours). Would anyone be hanging on twitter waiting for this?

Actually, it is not about immediate notification - you can no longer receive SMS I think for those you follow. It is more that a "busy" developer/person can easily write a short note about the progress without it seeing out of place - if you use a blog you are "obligated" to write a longer piece which takes more time and thus is less likely that you do. It has also become an easy way to aggregate - by using or # and some name or identifier, your message can be directed here and there depending on the topic. As Brad say, it may be a bit weird, but it is very convenient for aggregating short tidbits on a subject. In case you are curious; my account ;) http://twitter.com/larsivi -- Lars Ivar Igesund blog at http://larsivi.net DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi Dancing the Tango
Dec 11 2008
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 Actually, it is not about immediate notification - you can no longer
 receive SMS I think for those you follow. It is more that a "busy"
 developer/person can easily write a short note about the progress
 without it seeing out of place - if you use a blog you are
 "obligated" to write a longer piece which takes more time and thus is
 less likely that you do.

I have that problem with my Dr. Dobb's blog. A blog is shorter than an article, but lots of people have commented that my blog entries are too short. The problem with an article length one is, of course, the time involved in writing it. I also suspect that fewer readers would read it if it were article length.
 It has also become an easy way to aggregate - by using   or # and
 some name or identifier, your message can be directed here and there
 depending on the topic. As Brad say, it may be a bit weird, but it is
 very convenient for aggregating short tidbits on a subject.
 
 In case you are curious; my account ;)
 
 http://twitter.com/larsivi

I might just check it out.
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 In case you are curious; my account ;)
 
 http://twitter.com/larsivi

Oddly, I cannot add your name. Twitter insists that in order to add people, I must have an email address on hotmail. Anyhow, my twitter account name is WalterBright.
Dec 11 2008
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Oddly, I cannot add your name. Twitter insists that in order to add 
 people, I must have an email address on hotmail.

Never mind, I figured it out.
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
== Quote from Walter Bright (newshound1 digitalmars.com)'s article
 Lars Ivar Igesund wrote:
 In case you are curious; my account ;)

 http://twitter.com/larsivi

people, I must have an email address on hotmail.

That's weird. I was able to add you by going to http://twitter.com/walterbright and clicking "follow." (I broke down and created a Twitter account today also) Sean
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Walter Bright
 <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a
 cup of copy. bleh.

/me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot newspaper.

I have to say, I'm not drinking coffee at the moment. Perhaps later today. I'll be sure and announce it here!
Dec 11 2008
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Walter Bright wrote:
 Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Walter Bright
 <newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're 
 drinking a
 cup of copy. bleh.

/me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot newspaper.

I have to say, I'm not drinking coffee at the moment. Perhaps later today. I'll be sure and announce it here!

I'm drinking coffee now.
Dec 11 2008
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 Thanks for the update, but I was making a terrible joke on your
 mistyping of "coffee" as "copy."  ;)

I looked at that 3 times and didn't realize I had misspelled it that way. My brain is weird.
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
Bill Baxter wrote:
 I think it makes a lot more sense if you are young and have basically
 nothing useful to do with your time.

I go jogging regularly, and in order to avoid being hit by cars I look at the driver to see if he sees me. These days, odds are better than even they're yapping on their cell phones. Even backing out of the driveway, they're on the phone. I once read that one of the worst jobs in the world was to be a phone wiretapper. You had to listen all day to the crushing banality of everyday conversation.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Denis Koroskin" <2korden gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:37:00 +0300, Brad Roberts
<braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> wrote:

 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I
 have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.   
 I
 already go to my mail client to find pushed material.. and it's
 incrementally much easier for me to subscribe to a mailing list than
 anything else.  That's exactly why the first thing I did when joining the
 D community was to setup the nntp <--> mail bridges.  Any use of forums  
 by
 me would require an automatic email gateway.

 Just my 2 cents,
 Brad

For those of us who read all the messages that enter this newsgroup NNTP is more useful, no one argues this. But those users who visit digitalmars.D just to know if there are any interesting topics discussed or to ask a question once in a while prefer traditional web-based interface. In fact, these newsgroup have great amount of useful information, but you have to fetch all the messages for doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache is about 800Mb!). This is hardly possible for a newcomer. OTOH, any decent forum has a search functionality built-in. I believe that both should coexist, but a better integration between them is needed for sure.
Dec 09 2008
next sibling parent BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Denis,

 On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:37:00 +0300, Brad Roberts
 <braddr bellevue.puremagic.com> wrote:
 
 For me, it's not about speed, it's about push vs pull.  A forum that I


Oh, Yes!! A system that doesn't provide a way to get a one stop shop for everything I'm looking at looses big time in my book. Something that informs me when new stuff shows up is even better.
 have to actively go to to find out if there's new material is wasteful.


 For those of us who read all the messages that enter this newsgroup
 NNTP is more useful, no one argues this.

<nod/>
 but you have to fetch all the
 messages for doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache
 is about 800Mb!).

That's all? Real men have >2GB of posts! :b
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling parent "Denis Koroskin" <2korden gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 02:04:16 +0300, BCS <ao pathlink.com> wrote:

 Reply to Denis,

 but you have to fetch all the
 messages for doing a search over them by a keyword (my messages cache
 is about 800Mb!).

That's all? Real men have >2GB of posts! :b

Here is a screenshot with some statistics to prove myself: http://tatarlar.rork.ru/stuff/printscreen_256.png
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:
 Hi Brad,
 Good point I guess. While it's nice to have centralization for a forum's
 posts, the kind of centralization you're talking about is extracting from
 potentially multiple sites, and going to your inbox.

 I suppose the only way to get the best of these worlds is for a
 system to combine all wanted forums into one (personalized)
 online dynamic mega-forum. Something like Google Reader maybe?

 +speed, +1 thin line per (expandable) thread = bliss. There ya go,
 the perfect forum/board/list/newsgroup ;) Sigh...

Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.
Dec 09 2008
parent reply BCS <ao pathlink.com> writes:
Reply to Jarrett,


 Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the
 digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.
 

I'll trust him on that one seeing as more spam gets through my spam filters in a month than I've seen on the NG,... ever
Dec 09 2008
parent Walter Bright <newshound1 digitalmars.com> writes:
BCS wrote:
 Reply to Jarrett,
 Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the
 digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.

filters in a month than I've seen on the NG,... ever

It's interesting how the spammers don't seem to bother much with newsgroups that are not on usenet. Guess it's too old skool for them! There was someone last summer who repeatedly tried to spam our n.g., but I'd delete them within minutes, and he gave up after a couple weeks.
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Bill Baxter" <wbaxter gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Jarrett Billingsley
<jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Daniel White <twinbee42 skytopia.com> wrote:
 Hi Brad,
 Good point I guess. While it's nice to have centralization for a forum's
 posts, the kind of centralization you're talking about is extracting from
 potentially multiple sites, and going to your inbox.

 I suppose the only way to get the best of these worlds is for a
 system to combine all wanted forums into one (personalized)
 online dynamic mega-forum. Something like Google Reader maybe?

 +speed, +1 thin line per (expandable) thread = bliss. There ya go,
 the perfect forum/board/list/newsgroup ;) Sigh...

Google Groups does this already, but Walter does not want to have the digitalmars news server indexed by it for fear of spam.

More than that, there's the little problem that Google is apparently not interested in indexing newsgroups that aren't on standard Usenet servers. --bb
Dec 09 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Bill Baxter" <wbaxter gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> wrote:
 Walter Bright wrote:
 Sean Kelly wrote:
 I think there must be a generation gap here.  The first thing I look for
 is a
 newsgroup dedicated to a subject.  After that, a mailing list.  I have
 basically
 no interest in web forums.

Ah, those whipper-snappers with Twitter accounts!! (Is there anything more useless than twitter?)

If there is, I haven't seen it :-) I try to stay somewhat up on trends just to be current, but I've yet to see a point in telling people what I'm doing from minute to minute.

I think it makes a lot more sense if you are young and have basically nothing useful to do with your time. (but .. wait, Sean, wasn't your last post here just minutes ago? :-P ) As kids we face the struggle of how to combat boredom. As adults we face the struggle of how to get more of that thing we used to call boredom. At least that's been the case for me. :-) --bb
Dec 10 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:58 AM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 The site itself said that one use was to tell people when you're drinking a
 cup of copy. bleh.

/me imagines Walter holding a cup filled to the brim with steaming hot newspaper.
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent "Jarrett Billingsley" <jarrett.billingsley gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 3:31 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound1 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 I'm drinking coffee now.

Thanks for the update, but I was making a terrible joke on your mistyping of "coffee" as "copy." ;)
Dec 11 2008
prev sibling parent Robert Fraser <fraserofthenight gmail.com> writes:
Daniel White wrote:
 Hi all,
 Is it just me, or does anyone think it may be a good idea to use a
 phpBB style forum instead/aswell? I understand the reasoning behind
 the current system, as many of you have dedicated news readers which
 parse the emailed posts into a more thread like manner afterwards.
 
 However, for many people who don't have these readers (and don't want
 to try one yet), but who are very interested in D, the flat like
 posts may put them off, and that of course would be a great shame.
 
 To get the best of both worlds, one could get some backend server
 software to automatically parse the posts into a thread/phpbb like
 system, AND for the posts to be sent in the usual way to be read by
 the specialized newsgroup software readers. Is there such a system? -
 if not then why not, as it would be beneficial to everyone.
 
 At the same time, we can remove (or subsume) the old 'deprecated' D
 newsgroup.

Maybe we just need a better web-news? I looked on sourceforge, and it doesn't seem like web-news is being updated, and there aren't too many great alternatives. If there was one where you could register ()optionally - you should also be able to use it without registration), you could use that feature to save state (viewed posts), and give it whatever interface you like. A talented web programmer could even add in some AJAX-y stuff so it would notify you of new posts.
Dec 09 2008