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digitalmars.D - LDC

reply Russel Winder <russel winder.org.uk> writes:
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Is there any likelihood of an LDC that is D v2 in the near future. At
least on Debian LDC is v1.056.

Thanks.

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
Sep 05 2012
next sibling parent reply =?UTF-8?B?QWxleCBSw7hubmUgUGV0ZXJzZW4=?= <alex lycus.org> writes:
On 05-09-2012 14:11, Russel Winder wrote:
 Is there any likelihood of an LDC that is D v2 in the near future. At
 least on Debian LDC is v1.056.

 Thanks.

I don't know who packages LDC in Debian, but LDC has supported D 2.0 for years. http://www.github.com/ldc-developers/ldc -- Alex Rønne Petersen alex lycus.org http://lycus.org
Sep 05 2012
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 9/14/12 1:57 AM, Russel Winder wrote:
 On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 00:52 +0200, Rob T wrote:
 On Wednesday, 5 September 2012 at 14:42:25 UTC, Russel Winder
 wrote:
 It appears that the LDC website is in need of an overhaul.

No kidding. I thought the project was completely dead. Updating a web page is usually very easy, strange ...

Rather usefully, LDC seems far from dead, it builds and works very well. It just seems that LDC-related effort only relates to the Git codebase repository! ;-)

Could please the responsibles update the project homepage? After that I'll be glad to link to it from dlang.org/download.html. Thanks, Andrei
Sep 14 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "angel" <andrey.gelman gmail.com> writes:
Check out LDC web-page ...
In github we see they're up to date - merging 2.060
Sep 05 2012
parent reply Piotr Szturmaj <bncrbme jadamspam.pl> writes:
angel wrote:
 Check out LDC web-page ...
 In github we see they're up to date - merging 2.060

What's the status of SEH on Windows?
Sep 05 2012
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-09-05 14:32, Piotr Szturmaj wrote:
 angel wrote:
 Check out LDC web-page ...
 In github we see they're up to date - merging 2.060

What's the status of SEH on Windows?

It's not looking good, at least not for 32bit. Borland has some kind of patent on something related to SEH. Due to this, the LLVM/Clang developers won't implement SEH for Windows. BTW, how does DMD handle this. Does it use its own, non-compatible implementation, or is the technology licensed? http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=21MgAAAAEBAJ&dq=5,628,016 -- /Jacob Carlborg
Sep 05 2012
next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-09-05 20:32, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 Meh, it's not physically *possible* to write software that doesn't
 infringe on some software patent or another. If they're worried about
 infringing on some patent, they may as well just stop writing code
 altogether.

Yeah, I agree. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Sep 05 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Piotr Szturmaj <bncrbme jadamspam.pl> writes:
Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 On 2012-09-05 14:32, Piotr Szturmaj wrote:
 angel wrote:
 Check out LDC web-page ...
 In github we see they're up to date - merging 2.060

What's the status of SEH on Windows?

It's not looking good, at least not for 32bit. Borland has some kind of patent on something related to SEH. Due to this, the LLVM/Clang developers won't implement SEH for Windows.

AFAIK FreePascal, which is somewhat compatible with Borland's Delphi, has SEH support on Windows. I wonder how they solved patent issues.
Sep 06 2012
prev sibling parent reply Don Clugston <dac nospam.com> writes:
On 05/09/12 20:12, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 On 2012-09-05 14:32, Piotr Szturmaj wrote:
 angel wrote:
 Check out LDC web-page ...
 In github we see they're up to date - merging 2.060

What's the status of SEH on Windows?

It's not looking good, at least not for 32bit. Borland has some kind of patent on something related to SEH. Due to this, the LLVM/Clang developers won't implement SEH for Windows.

That sounds paranoid to me. I believe the patent is essentially a workaround for the absence of thread-local variables on 16-bit Windows. In D we have working thread-local variables even on Windows versions that don't support them, thanks to Rainer's brilliant work. Which gives very many ways of implementing exception handling on Windows.
Sep 13 2012
next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-09-13 16:40, Don Clugston wrote:

 That sounds paranoid to me. I believe the patent is essentially a
 workaround for the absence of thread-local variables on 16-bit Windows.

Yeah, I know.
 In D we have working thread-local variables even on Windows versions
 that don't support them, thanks to Rainer's brilliant work. Which gives
 very many ways of implementing exception handling on Windows.

So DMD uses its own implementation of SEH? Is it compatible with the one used by Microsoft? -- /Jacob Carlborg
Sep 13 2012
prev sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2012-09-13 16:40, Don Clugston wrote:

 That sounds paranoid to me. I believe the patent is essentially a
 workaround for the absence of thread-local variables on 16-bit Windows.

BTW, regardless if it's under a patent or not we can't force them to implement SEH in LLVM. The description of the patent just says that it's about a system for compilers that allow support runtime exception handling. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Sep 13 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder <russel winder.org.uk> writes:
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On Wed, 2012-09-05 at 14:18 +0200, Alex R=C3=B8nne Petersen wrote:
[=E2=80=A6]
=20
 I don't know who packages LDC in Debian, but LDC has supported D 2.0 for=

 years.
=20
 http://www.github.com/ldc-developers/ldc

Well I think it will have to be accepted that the entire Debian and Ubuntu world have no knowledge of this. The LDC developers probably need to establish a relationship with whoever the listed Debian packager is. --=20 Russel. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n= et 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Sep 05 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder <russel winder.org.uk> writes:
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On Wed, 2012-09-05 at 13:30 +0100, Russel Winder wrote:
 On Wed, 2012-09-05 at 14:18 +0200, Alex R=C3=B8nne Petersen wrote:
 [=E2=80=A6]
=20
 I don't know who packages LDC in Debian, but LDC has supported D 2.0 fo=


 years.
=20
 http://www.github.com/ldc-developers/ldc

Well I think it will have to be accepted that the entire Debian and Ubuntu world have no knowledge of this. The LDC developers probably need to establish a relationship with whoever the listed Debian packager is.

I had a quick look, and I surmise that the LDC folk switched from Mercurial to Git but didn't communicate with the Debian packager that this was going to happen. Since the Mercurial repository hasn't changes in the last two years, neither has the Debian package. The ldc package got ejected from Testing so will not be in the next Debian release. Can I suggest that the LDC developers make a release from GitHub and communicate with Arthur Loiret who is listed as the packager so as to get a new ldc package into Experimental and thence Unstable after the freeze is over? I'll post a bug report on the LDC GitHub site.=20 --=20 Russel. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n= et 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Sep 05 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder <russel winder.org.uk> writes:
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It appears that the LDC website is in need of an overhaul.  Two
"highlights": apparently 0.9.2 is the most up-to-date release from over
two years ago; and to get source you should clone the Mercurial
repository from BitBucket. Strange instructions for a project now hosted
on GitHub.

I now see why Debian is so out of date.

--=20
Russel.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n=
et
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
Sep 05 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 20:12:29 +0200
Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> wrote:

 On 2012-09-05 14:32, Piotr Szturmaj wrote:
 angel wrote:
 Check out LDC web-page ...
 In github we see they're up to date - merging 2.060

What's the status of SEH on Windows?

It's not looking good, at least not for 32bit. Borland has some kind of patent on something related to SEH. Due to this, the LLVM/Clang developers won't implement SEH for Windows.

Meh, it's not physically *possible* to write software that doesn't infringe on some software patent or another. If they're worried about infringing on some patent, they may as well just stop writing code altogether.
 BTW, how does DMD handle this. Does it use its own, non-compatible 
 implementation, or is the technology licensed?
 
 http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=21MgAAAAEBAJ&dq=5,628,016
 

I've wondered the same thing.
Sep 05 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 5 September 2012 at 18:11:58 UTC, Jacob Carlborg 
wrote:
 BTW, how does DMD handle this. Does it use its own, 
 non-compatible implementation, or is the technology licensed?

My guess is that Digital Mars probably inherited Symantec's license. (This is pure speculation on my part, I don't actually know, but it'd make sense if it is part of the proprietary backend.)
Sep 05 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Joseph Rushton Wakeling <joseph.wakeling webdrake.net> writes:
On 05/09/12 19:32, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 Meh, it's not physically *possible* to write software that doesn't
 infringe on some software patent or another. If they're worried about
 infringing on some patent, they may as well just stop writing code
 altogether.

Yes, but there's a difference between writing software knowing that you're probably going to come up against an infringement problem somewhere, versus writing software that will infringe a known patent.
Sep 06 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Sean Kelly <sean invisibleduck.org> writes:
On Sep 13, 2012, at 11:21 AM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> wrote:

 On 2012-09-13 16:40, Don Clugston wrote:
=20
 In D we have working thread-local variables even on Windows versions
 that don't support them, thanks to Rainer's brilliant work. Which =


 very many ways of implementing exception handling on Windows.

So DMD uses its own implementation of SEH? Is it compatible with the =

Digital Mars has a redistribution license for MSVC libraries, so perhaps = it sidesteps the issue?=
Sep 13 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Rob T" <rob ucora.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 5 September 2012 at 14:42:25 UTC, Russel Winder 
wrote:
 It appears that the LDC website is in need of an overhaul.

No kidding. I thought the project was completely dead. Updating a web page is usually very easy, strange ... -rt
Sep 13 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder <russel winder.org.uk> writes:
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On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 00:52 +0200, Rob T wrote:
 On Wednesday, 5 September 2012 at 14:42:25 UTC, Russel Winder=20
 wrote:
 It appears that the LDC website is in need of an overhaul.

No kidding. I thought the project was completely dead. Updating a=20 web page is usually very easy, strange ...

Rather usefully, LDC seems far from dead, it builds and works very well. It just seems that LDC-related effort only relates to the Git codebase repository! ;-) --=20 Russel. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n= et 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Sep 13 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder <russel winder.org.uk> writes:
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On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 08:25 +0200, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 On 2012-09-13 16:40, Don Clugston wrote:
=20
 That sounds paranoid to me. I believe the patent is essentially a
 workaround for the absence of thread-local variables on 16-bit Windows.

BTW, regardless if it's under a patent or not we can't force them to=20 implement SEH in LLVM. =20 The description of the patent just says that it's about a system for=20 compilers that allow support runtime exception handling.

Presumably the patent (if it exists and is enforceable) only applies in the USA. So for the rest of the world there is absolutely no need to worry about it. Only people in the USA have to worry. Which means one version for in the USA and one version for everywhere else? --=20 Russel. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n= et 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Sep 14 2012
prev sibling parent "Daniel Kozak" <kozzi11 gmail.com> writes:
Maybe just some configure switch, which enabled/disabled SEH when 
compiling LDC


On Friday, 14 September 2012 at 08:02:51 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
 On Fri, 2012-09-14 at 08:25 +0200, Jacob Carlborg wrote:
 On 2012-09-13 16:40, Don Clugston wrote:
 
 That sounds paranoid to me. I believe the patent is 
 essentially a
 workaround for the absence of thread-local variables on 
 16-bit Windows.

BTW, regardless if it's under a patent or not we can't force them to implement SEH in LLVM. The description of the patent just says that it's about a system for compilers that allow support runtime exception handling.

Presumably the patent (if it exists and is enforceable) only applies in the USA. So for the rest of the world there is absolutely no need to worry about it. Only people in the USA have to worry. Which means one version for in the USA and one version for everywhere else?

Sep 14 2012