• Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> Jan 21 2010
• Jesse Phillips <jessekphillips+D gmail.com> Jan 21 2010
• Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> Jan 21 2010
• Jesse Phillips <jessekphillips+D gmail.com> Jan 21 2010
• =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_F_Bj=F6rklund?= <afb algonet.se> Jan 22 2010
• Stan Boardman <stanbrd1769 btinternet.com> Jan 22 2010
• "Simen kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> Jan 22 2010
• =?UTF-8?B?QW5kZXJzIEYgQmrDtnJrbHVuZA==?= <afb algonet.se> Jan 22 2010
• retard <re tard.com.invalid> Jan 22 2010
• "Lars T. Kyllingstad" <public kyllingen.NOSPAMnet> Jan 22 2010
• retard <re tard.com.invalid> Jan 22 2010
• "Masahiro Nakagawa" <repeatedly gmail.com> Jan 22 2010
• "Simen kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> Jan 22 2010
• "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> Jan 22 2010
• dsimcha <dsimcha yahoo.com> Jan 22 2010
• "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> Jan 22 2010
• bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> Jan 22 2010
• Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> Jan 22 2010
• Nathan Tuggy <bugzilla nathan.tuggycomputer.com> Jan 23 2010

Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> writes:

That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the
discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the language. Don't
get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the first to switch.

But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to use D  and
talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream core of the language -
1.055 - if I understand the situation correctly? That should be digitalmars.D.

If there was discussion about how good it was that the various flavors of the
language were getting in sync, and on idiom, and on cool D programming
techniques, and on explanation, I'm sure the newsgroup would pull more people
in.

As it is, the uncommitted with some interest in D visit occasionally, and leave
with the same old, same old feeling.

Let's try to turn D into a really active living language, not some vague future
possibility. Perception is everything!

Jesse Phillips <jessekphillips+D gmail.com> writes:

Steve Teale Wrote:

 That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the
discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the language. Don't
get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the first to switch.
 
 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to use D  and
talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream core of the language -
1.055 - if I understand the situation correctly? That should be digitalmars.D.
 
 If there was discussion about how good it was that the various flavors of the
language were getting in sync, and on idiom, and on cool D programming
techniques, and on explanation, I'm sure the newsgroup would pull more people
in.
 
 As it is, the uncommitted with some interest in D visit occasionally, and
leave with the same old, same old feeling.
 
 Let's try to turn D into a really active living language, not some vague
future possibility. Perception is everything!


Actually this has come up before and the consensus was that digitalmars.D is
the group about the development of D. And that digitalmars.learn is poorly
named because discussion about using D goes there.

And some of what you would like to see already happens in 'learn', but you are
welcome to add to it. An attempt to make this clear was put on the Wiki4D
site[1], please change the text if you have something better (I realize most
people are not introduced to the groups through Wiki4D, but I do hope the site
is a better introduction to D than the official site).

http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?NewsDmD

Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> writes:

Jesse Phillips Wrote:

 Steve Teale Wrote:
 
 That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the
discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the language. Don't
get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the first to switch.
 
 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to use D  and
talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream core of the language -
1.055 - if I understand the situation correctly? That should be digitalmars.D.
 
 If there was discussion about how good it was that the various flavors of the
language were getting in sync, and on idiom, and on cool D programming
techniques, and on explanation, I'm sure the newsgroup would pull more people
in.
 
 As it is, the uncommitted with some interest in D visit occasionally, and
leave with the same old, same old feeling.
 
 Let's try to turn D into a really active living language, not some vague
future possibility. Perception is everything!


 Actually this has come up before and the consensus was that digitalmars.D is
the group about the development of D. And that digitalmars.learn is poorly
named because discussion about using D goes there.
 
 And some of what you would like to see already happens in 'learn', but you are
welcome to add to it. An attempt to make this clear was put on the Wiki4D
site[1], please change the text if you have something better (I realize most
people are not introduced to the groups through Wiki4D, but I do hope the site
is a better introduction to D than the official site).
 
 http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?NewsDmD


I realize it has come up before. Periodically I come back to D to see what's
going on, and lately I have had a resurgence of enthusiasm, but not because of
the digitamars.D group.

I don't believe that D aficionados are going to post many 'wow, this is cool -
look at this' articles on the .learn group. They'll answer questions, yes, but
with its rankings sinking, D needs more oomph.

I'll check out the Wiki.

Jesse Phillips <jessekphillips+D gmail.com> writes:

Steve Teale Wrote:

 I don't believe that D aficionados are going to post many 'wow, this is cool -
look at this' articles on the .learn group. They'll answer questions, yes, but
with its rankings sinking, D needs more oomph.


Truth is that D aficionados don't really post those here either. Instead there
is, "Wooh, look at this, it doesn't compile shouldn't it?" or "Wow, look at how
they solved [problem] in [language]"

I can see why someone wouldn't like to post those in learn since it would imply
that they want feedback for improvements (people will give it to you even if
you don't ask though).

Besides cool programming tricks really should be added to
tutorials/snippets/how-to's. I haven't gotten to tackling those yet.

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_F_Bj=F6rklund?= <afb algonet.se> writes:

Steve Teale wrote:
 That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the
 discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the language.
 Don't get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the first to switch.


I think the name of the new language in the book is going to be "D".

 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to
 use D  and talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream
 core of the language - 1.055 - if I understand the situation
 correctly? That should be digitalmars.D.


Probably D.oldskool or something. After all, it's now a decade old...

--anders

Stan Boardman <stanbrd1769 btinternet.com> writes:

Anders F Björklund Wrote:

 Steve Teale wrote:
 That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the
 discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the language.
 Don't get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the first to switch.


 I think the name of the new language in the book is going to be "D".
 
 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to
 use D  and talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream
 core of the language - 1.055 - if I understand the situation
 correctly? That should be digitalmars.D.


 Probably D.oldskool or something. After all, it's now a decade old...
 
 --anders


or re D.undant...

"Simen kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:

Anders F Bj=C3=B6rklund <afb algonet.se> wrote:

 Steve Teale wrote:
 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to
 use D  and talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream
 core of the language - 1.055 - if I understand the situation
 correctly? That should be digitalmars.D.


 Probably D.oldskool or something. After all, it's now a decade old...


D 1.0 is 3 years old, not 10. The plan is not to have a group for D 0.1.=


-- =

Simen

=?UTF-8?B?QW5kZXJzIEYgQmrDtnJrbHVuZA==?= <afb algonet.se> writes:

Simen kjaeraas wrote:
 Probably D.oldskool or something. After all, it's now a decade old...


 D 1.0 is 3 years old, not 10. The plan is not to have a group for D 0.1.


Yeah, sooo last decade, isn't it ? :-) Oh well, guess it's time for D3 ?

But they can all live on the same D newsgroups, as far as I'm concerned.

--anders

retard <re tard.com.invalid> writes:

Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:28:20 +0100, Simen kjaeraas wrote:

 Anders F Björklund <afb algonet.se> wrote:
 
 Steve Teale wrote:
 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to
 use D  and talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream core
 of the language - 1.055 - if I understand the situation correctly?
 That should be digitalmars.D.


 Probably D.oldskool or something. After all, it's now a decade old...


 D 1.0 is 3 years old, not 10. The plan is not to have a group for D 0.1.


D 0.xxx and 0.xx were pretty close to D 1.0. 1.055 probably differs from 
1.00 almost as much as 0.99 did. Only a small amount of features were 
added and bugs fixed.

"Lars T. Kyllingstad" <public kyllingen.NOSPAMnet> writes:

Steve Teale wrote:
 That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the
discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the language. Don't
get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the first to switch.
 
 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to use D  and
talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream core of the language -
1.055 - if I understand the situation correctly? That should be digitalmars.D.
 
 If there was discussion about how good it was that the various flavors of the
language were getting in sync, and on idiom, and on cool D programming
techniques, and on explanation, I'm sure the newsgroup would pull more people
in.
 
 As it is, the uncommitted with some interest in D visit occasionally, and
leave with the same old, same old feeling.
 
 Let's try to turn D into a really active living language, not some vague
future possibility. Perception is everything!


Well, seeing as D2 is supposed to be finished in only a couple of 
months, we should in my opinion stop referring to it as D2, and just 
call it D.  If there is need for separate newsgroups, they should be 
called digitalmars.d1 and digitalmars.d, not digitalmars.d and 
digitalmars.d2.

After all, when we speak of Java, we don't usually mean Java 1.1.

There is, however, definitely a need to rename the newsgroups.  This 
newsgroup should be called d.dev or something, and d.learn should 
replace this one.  This would most likely lead to more traffic and more 
interesting discussions on the "learn" forum, with the added benefit of 
not scaring away newbies with the sometimes rather heated debates going 
on here.

-Lars

retard <re tard.com.invalid> writes:

Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:26:12 +0100, Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote:

 Steve Teale wrote:
 That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the
 discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the language.
 Don't get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the first to
 switch.
 
 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to use
 D  and talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream core of
 the language - 1.055 - if I understand the situation correctly? That
 should be digitalmars.D.
 
 If there was discussion about how good it was that the various flavors
 of the language were getting in sync, and on idiom, and on cool D
 programming techniques, and on explanation, I'm sure the newsgroup
 would pull more people in.
 
 As it is, the uncommitted with some interest in D visit occasionally,
 and leave with the same old, same old feeling.
 
 Let's try to turn D into a really active living language, not some
 vague future possibility. Perception is everything!


 Well, seeing as D2 is supposed to be finished in only a couple of
 months, we should in my opinion stop referring to it as D2, and just
 call it D.  If there is need for separate newsgroups, they should be
 called digitalmars.d1 and digitalmars.d, not digitalmars.d and
 digitalmars.d2.
 
 After all, when we speak of Java, we don't usually mean Java 1.1.
 
 There is, however, definitely a need to rename the newsgroups.  This
 newsgroup should be called d.dev or something, and d.learn should
 replace this one.  This would most likely lead to more traffic and more
 interesting discussions on the "learn" forum, with the added benefit of
 not scaring away newbies with the sometimes rather heated debates going
 on here.


Hmm http://www.scala-lang.org/node/199

D <-> scala
D.announce <-> scala.announce
D.learn <-> scala.users
D.{dtl,dwt,ide,debugger} <-> scala.tools
nothing <-> scala.debate
nothing <-> scala.internals

I don't think D requires a D.academic for papers since probably no 
postgraduate level paper has ever been written about D. A group for 
discussing compiler/language internals and debate would be useful though.

"Masahiro Nakagawa" <repeatedly gmail.com> writes:

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:54:11 +0900, retard <re tard.com.invalid> wrote:

 Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:26:12 +0100, Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote:

 Steve Teale wrote:
 That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the
 discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the language.
 Don't get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the first to
 switch.

 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to use
 D  and talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream core of
 the language - 1.055 - if I understand the situation correctly? That
 should be digitalmars.D.

 If there was discussion about how good it was that the various flavors
 of the language were getting in sync, and on idiom, and on cool D
 programming techniques, and on explanation, I'm sure the newsgroup
 would pull more people in.

 As it is, the uncommitted with some interest in D visit occasionally,
 and leave with the same old, same old feeling.

 Let's try to turn D into a really active living language, not some
 vague future possibility. Perception is everything!


 Well, seeing as D2 is supposed to be finished in only a couple of
 months, we should in my opinion stop referring to it as D2, and just
 call it D.  If there is need for separate newsgroups, they should be
 called digitalmars.d1 and digitalmars.d, not digitalmars.d and
 digitalmars.d2.

 After all, when we speak of Java, we don't usually mean Java 1.1.

 There is, however, definitely a need to rename the newsgroups.  This
 newsgroup should be called d.dev or something, and d.learn should
 replace this one.  This would most likely lead to more traffic and more
 interesting discussions on the "learn" forum, with the added benefit of
 not scaring away newbies with the sometimes rather heated debates going
 on here.


 Hmm http://www.scala-lang.org/node/199

 D <-> scala
 D.announce <-> scala.announce
 D.learn <-> scala.users
 D.{dtl,dwt,ide,debugger} <-> scala.tools
 nothing <-> scala.debate
 nothing <-> scala.internals


internals here.
http://lists.puremagic.com/mailman/listinfo/dmd-internals

 I don't think D requires a D.academic for papers since probably no
 postgraduate level paper has ever been written about D. A group for
 discussing compiler/language internals and debate would be useful though.

"Simen kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:52:20 +0100, Steve Teale  
<steve.teale britseyeview.com> wrote:

 That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the  
 discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the language.  
 Don't get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the first to switch.

 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to use  
 D  and talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream core of  
 the language - 1.055 - if I understand the situation correctly? That  
 should be digitalmars.D.

 If there was discussion about how good it was that the various flavors  
 of the language were getting in sync, and on idiom, and on cool D  
 programming techniques, and on explanation, I'm sure the newsgroup would  
 pull more people in.

 As it is, the uncommitted with some interest in D visit occasionally,  
 and leave with the same old, same old feeling.

 Let's try to turn D into a really active living language, not some vague  
 future possibility. Perception is everything!


IMHO:

digitalmars.D --> digitalmars.D.dev
digitalmars.D.learn --> digitalmars.D.users

D is not big enough to fork the groups in D1 and D2 IMO, but currently
there is considerable overlap between digitalmars.D and digitalmars.D.learn
in what they cover.

-- 
Simen

"Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:

"Simen kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:op.u6x1kkz2vxi10f biotronic-pc.home...
 IMHO:

 digitalmars.D --> digitalmars.D.dev
 digitalmars.D.learn --> digitalmars.D.users

 D is not big enough to fork the groups in D1 and D2 IMO, but currently
 there is considerable overlap between digitalmars.D and 
 digitalmars.D.learn
 in what they cover.


++vote 

dsimcha <dsimcha yahoo.com> writes:

== Quote from Nick Sabalausky (a a.a)'s article
 ++vote


The more idiomatic convention on this forum is vote++.  Is using ++vote an
optimization in hope of making this happen faster?

"Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:

"dsimcha" <dsimcha yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:hjd1h5$2s3k$1 digitalmars.com...
 == Quote from Nick Sabalausky (a a.a)'s article
 ++vote


 The more idiomatic convention on this forum is vote++.  Is using ++vote an
 optimization in hope of making this happen faster?


Pet peeve, really. I've always found the semantics of post-inc/dec to be 
next-to-useless for anything besides obfuscation. Whenever I get around to 
designing my own language, "++x" will be dissalowed and "x++" will have 
pre-increment semantics. 

bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:

Nick Sabalausky:
 Pet peeve, really. I've always found the semantics of post-inc/dec to be 
 next-to-useless for anything besides obfuscation.


From what I've read it's also a very good source of bugs :-)

Bye,
bearophile

Steve Teale <steve.teale britseyeview.com> writes:

Nick Sabalausky Wrote:

 "Simen kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> wrote in message 
 news:op.u6x1kkz2vxi10f biotronic-pc.home...
 IMHO:

 digitalmars.D --> digitalmars.D.dev
 digitalmars.D.learn --> digitalmars.D.users

 D is not big enough to fork the groups in D1 and D2 IMO, but currently
 there is considerable overlap between digitalmars.D and 
 digitalmars.D.learn
 in what they cover.


 ++vote 
 
 

Nathan Tuggy <bugzilla nathan.tuggycomputer.com> writes:

On 2010-01-22 09:01, Simen kjaeraas wrote:
 On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:52:20 +0100, Steve Teale
 <steve.teale britseyeview.com> wrote:

 That this newsgroup was renamed digitalmars.d2. Probably > 80% of the
 discussion here is on topics relating to the evolution of the
 language. Don't get me wrong, as soon as D2 is stable, I'll be the
 first to switch.

 But where does the current discussion leave those of us who want to
 use D and talk about the usage of what is the current mainstream core
 of the language - 1.055 - if I understand the situation correctly?
 That should be digitalmars.D.

 If there was discussion about how good it was that the various flavors
 of the language were getting in sync, and on idiom, and on cool D
 programming techniques, and on explanation, I'm sure the newsgroup
 would pull more people in.

 As it is, the uncommitted with some interest in D visit occasionally,
 and leave with the same old, same old feeling.

 Let's try to turn D into a really active living language, not some
 vague future possibility. Perception is everything!


 IMHO:

 digitalmars.D --> digitalmars.D.dev
 digitalmars.D.learn --> digitalmars.D.users

 D is not big enough to fork the groups in D1 and D2 IMO, but currently
 there is considerable overlap between digitalmars.D and digitalmars.D.learn
 in what they cover.


So, I mostly lurk here (and in fact had a hiatus of a few months where I 
didn't even lurk), but I totally agree with this suggestion.

D.learn just isn't intuitive enough -- it suggests either random newbies 
bumbling around wondering what a "pointer" is, or some kind of 
fast-paced "D academy", neither of which is at all accurate. (Well, 
except that there are occasionally newbies wondering how pointers work.)