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digitalmars.D - Is there any reason why arithmetic operation on shorts and bytes

reply d coder <dlang.coder gmail.com> writes:
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Greetings

The following code prints FFFF0000. Similar thing happens when a and b are
bytes.
Is this intended?

Regards
- Puneet

void main()
{
  import std.stdio;
  ushort a = 0x55AA;
  ushort b = 0xAA55;
  writefln("%X", ~(a | b));
}

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<div>Greetings</div><div><br></div><div>The following code prints FFFF0000.=
 Similar thing happens when a and b are bytes.</div><div>Is this intended?<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div>- Puneet</div><div><br></div>

<div><div>void main()</div><div>{</div><div>=A0 import std.stdio;</div><div=

=A0 ushort a =3D 0x55AA;</div><div>=A0 ushort b =3D 0xAA55;</div><div>=A0 =




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Dec 11 2012
next sibling parent reply "monarch_dodra" <monarchdodra gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 at 12:24:14 UTC, d coder wrote:

 Greetings

 The following code prints FFFF0000. Similar thing happens when 
 a and b are
 bytes.
 Is this intended?

 Regards
 - Puneet

 void main()
 {
   import std.stdio;
   ushort a = 0x55AA;
   ushort b = 0xAA55;
   writefln("%X", ~(a | b));
 }



integer operations are always promoted to at least int. That's 
standard fare since C. I think it is a performance thing: Unpack 
into ints, oeprate, repack into ints.

D's stance regarding integer operations is "if it compiles, it 
creates the same output as in C".

It's kind of a gotcha, but not that big a deal.
Dec 11 2012
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/11/12 8:03 AM, d coder wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 6:23 PM, monarch_dodra <monarchdodra gmail.com
 <mailto:monarchdodra gmail.com>> wrote:

     D's stance regarding integer operations is "if it compiles, it
     creates the same output as in C".


 Thanks Monarch. So it is a gotcha we inherit from C. :-)



No, it's a fix of a gotcha from C. The C code would just allow the 
assignment.

Andrei
Dec 11 2012
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/11/12 8:24 AM, d coder wrote:

     No, it's a fix of a gotcha from C. The C code would just allow the
     assignment.


 Yes Andrei.

 But it does not look clean if you have to write:

 byte a, b, c;
 a = cast(byte) (b + c);

 Well I know the advantages (safety). But imagine having to write all
 that when working with bytes and shorts. Makes it really difficult to
 work with shorts and bytes in D.



Value range propagation automatically avoids the need for a lot of those 
casts. http://www.drdobbs.com/tools/value-range-propagation/229300211


 Would I be asking for too much if I ask
 DMD to provide a compiler flag that makes it return bytes and shorts for
 operations on them?



That won't happen.


Andrei
Dec 11 2012
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/11/12 11:36 AM, d coder wrote:

 Thanks Everybody for responding. I have another query which is off-topic
 but related.

 Why is the following allowed in D?

 long a;
 int b;

 b += a; // Allowed -- no explicit cast



RMW operations are allowed without a cast.

Andrei
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/11/2012 5:24 AM, d coder wrote:

 Would I be asking for too much if I ask DMD to provide a compiler
 flag that makes it return bytes and shorts for operations on them? So the deal
 would be, if you use this compiler flag, code behavior would be different from
 that of C/C++.



Having compiler flags that fundamentally change the behavior of the language
are 
a disaster from about every point of view.
Dec 11 2012
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/11/2012 10:12 AM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

 Let's not entertain any thoughts of allowing D to venture down that
 path.



No worries there :-) I feel pretty dang strongly about this issue, from bad 
experience.

Even if a language behaves "wrong", it is still usable if it is predictable.
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent d coder <dlang.coder gmail.com> writes:
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On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 6:23 PM, monarch_dodra <monarchdodra gmail.com>wrote:


 D's stance regarding integer operations is "if it compiles, it creates the
 same output as in C".



Thanks Monarch. So it is a gotcha we inherit from C. :-)

Regards
- Puneet

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 6:23 PM, monarch=
_dodra <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:monarchdodra gmail.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">monarchdodra gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;=
padding-left:1ex">

<div id=3D":8">D&#39;s stance regarding integer operations is &quot;if it c=
ompiles, it creates the same output as in C&quot;.<br></div></blockquote></=
div><br><div>Thanks Monarch. So it is a gotcha we inherit from C. :-)</div>

<div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div>- Puneet</div>

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Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent d coder <dlang.coder gmail.com> writes:
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 No, it's a fix of a gotcha from C. The C code would just allow the
 assignment.




Yes Andrei.

But it does not look clean if you have to write:

byte a, b, c;
a = cast(byte) (b + c);

Well I know the advantages (safety). But imagine having to write all that
when working with bytes and shorts. Makes it really difficult to work with
shorts and bytes in D. Would I be asking for too much if I ask DMD to
provide a compiler flag that makes it return bytes and shorts for
operations on them? So the deal would be, if you use this compiler flag,
code behavior would be different from that of C/C++.

What we get would be more practical short and byte behavior.

Regards
- Puneet

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<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
No, it&#39;s a fix of a gotcha from C. The C code would just allow the assi=
gnment.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes Andrei.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>But it does not look clean if you have to write:</div><div><br></div>

<div>byte a, b, c;</div><div>a =3D cast(byte) (b + c);</div><div><br></div>=
<div>Well I know the advantages (safety). But imagine having to write all t=
hat when working with bytes and shorts. Makes it really difficult to work w=
ith shorts and bytes in D. Would I be asking for too much if I ask DMD to p=
rovide a compiler flag that makes it return bytes and shorts for operations=
 on them? So the deal would be, if you use this compiler flag, code behavio=
r would be different from that of C/C++.</div>

<div><br></div><div>What we get would be more practical short and byte beha=
vior.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div>- Puneet</div><div><br></d=
iv></div>

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Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Peter Alexander" <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 at 13:24:59 UTC, d coder wrote:


 But it does not look clean if you have to write:

 byte a, b, c;
 a = cast(byte) (b + c);



That's the whole point. What you are doing is dangerous, so it 
requires the cast.

Adding a compiler flag to change the semantics of the language 
sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent d coder <dlang.coder gmail.com> writes:
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On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Peter Alexander <
peter.alexander.au gmail.com> wrote:


 That's the whole point. What you are doing is dangerous, so it requires
 the cast.




What I am doing is not dangerous. I am operating at byte/short level.
Tell me, if what I am doing is dangerous, how come doing the following is
not dangerous. It is allowed by D.

int a, b, c;
a = b + c;

Also the sense of safety that you get for short and byte too is not
complete. Consider:

void main() {
  import std.stdio;
  ushort a = ushort.max;
  ushort b = ushort.max;
  a += b;
  writeln(a);
}


Is it too much to ask for consistent behavior across the built-in types?

Regards
- Puneet

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Peter A=
lexander <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:peter.alexander.au gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">peter.alexander.au gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br=

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=




<div id=3D":vt">That&#39;s the whole point. What you are doing is dangerous=
, so it requires the cast.<br></div></blockquote></div><br><div><br></div><=
div>What I am doing is not dangerous. I am operating at byte/short level.</=
div>

<div>Tell me, if what I am doing is dangerous, how come doing the following=
 is not dangerous. It is allowed by D.</div><div><br></div><div>int a, b, c=
;</div><div>a =3D b + c;</div><div><br></div><div>Also the sense of safety =
that you get for short and byte too is not complete. Consider:</div>

<div><br></div><div><div>void main() {</div><div>=A0 import std.stdio;</div=

<div>=A0 ushort a =3D ushort.max;</div><div>=A0 ushort b =3D ushort.max;</=



v><br></div>

<div><br></div><div>Is it too much to ask for consistent behavior across th=
e built-in types?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div>- Puneet</div>=
<div><br></div>

--f46d042ef4f97a69c404d09422a3--
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
d coder:


 Tell me, if what I am doing is dangerous, how come doing the 
 following is not dangerous. It is allowed by D.

 int a, b, c;
 a = b + c;



I think this dis-uniformity was added because:
- Statistically it's more common to have an overflow when you sum 
two bytes compared to summing two ints.
- If the sum of two ints/uints requires a cast, you need to fill 
your code with casts. And casts are not safe at all, they are 
sharp powertools.

(I have asked many times for runtime integral overflows in D (as 
in C#/Delphi), that can be disabled with a compilation switch. 
But D designers come from the great unsafety of C-like languages 
and do not agree with me on the dangers/bugs of fixnum 
operations).

Bye,
bearophile
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Rene Zwanenburg" <renezwanenburg gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 at 13:24:59 UTC, d coder wrote:

 No, it's a fix of a gotcha from C. The C code would just allow 
 the
 assignment.




 Yes Andrei.

 But it does not look clean if you have to write:

 byte a, b, c;
 a = cast(byte) (b + c);

 Well I know the advantages (safety). But imagine having to 
 write all that
 when working with bytes and shorts. Makes it really difficult 
 to work with
 shorts and bytes in D. Would I be asking for too much if I ask 
 DMD to
 provide a compiler flag that makes it return bytes and shorts 
 for
 operations on them? So the deal would be, if you use this 
 compiler flag,
 code behavior would be different from that of C/C++.

 What we get would be more practical short and byte behavior.

 Regards
 - Puneet



If the compiler can statically verify that some integer value 
fits in a byte or short, you don't need the cast. So to rewrite 
your example:

byte a, b, c;
a = (b + c) & 0xFF;

Also:
short a;
byte b, c;
a = b + c;

Still not exactly what you're looking for, but the mask looks 
nicer than a cast IMO. It's also safer.
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent d coder <dlang.coder gmail.com> writes:
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Thanks Everybody for responding. I have another query which is off-topic
but related.

Why is the following allowed in D?

long a;
int b;

b += a; // Allowed -- no explicit cast
b = a + b; // Not allowed
b = a;      // Not allowed

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Thanks Everybody for responding. I have another query which is off-topic bu=
t related.<div><br></div><div>Why is the following allowed in D?</div><div>=
<br></div><div>long a;</div><div>int b;</div><div><br></div><div>b +=3D a; =
// Allowed -- no explicit cast</div>

<div>b =3D a + b; // Not allowed</div><div>b =3D a; =A0 =A0 =A0// Not allow=
ed</div><div><br></div>

--f46d042f945ad7f69304d0964b15--
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "bearophile" <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
d coder:


 Why is the following allowed in D?

 long a;
 int b;

 b += a; // Allowed -- no explicit cast
 b = a + b; // Not allowed
 b = a;      // Not allowed



Seems a bug of range analysis.

Bye,
bearophile
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 09:47:33 -0800
Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:


 On 12/11/2012 5:24 AM, d coder wrote:

 Would I be asking for too much if I ask DMD to provide a compiler
 flag that makes it return bytes and shorts for operations on them?
 So the deal would be, if you use this compiler flag, code behavior
 would be different from that of C/C++.



 Having compiler flags that fundamentally change the behavior of the
 language are a disaster from about every point of view.
 



Yea, I'd hate to see D turn into PHP. That's one of the biggest
reasons I despise PHP - code can't rely on fucking *anything* in it to
ever work in any particular way. Pick any random line of PHP code,
and there's about 20 different things it might do, even on the exact
same version of PHP, all depending on a billion different configuration
settings. Any library written in PHP is *inherently* broken simply by
being one codebase intending to be "usable" on different servers.

Let's not entertain any thoughts of allowing D to venture down that
path.
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "foobar" <foo bar.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 at 16:09:14 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

 On 12/11/12 8:24 AM, d coder wrote:

    No, it's a fix of a gotcha from C. The C code would just 
 allow the
    assignment.


 Yes Andrei.

 But it does not look clean if you have to write:

 byte a, b, c;
 a = cast(byte) (b + c);

 Well I know the advantages (safety). But imagine having to 
 write all
 that when working with bytes and shorts. Makes it really 
 difficult to
 work with shorts and bytes in D.



 Value range propagation automatically avoids the need for a lot 
 of those casts. 
 http://www.drdobbs.com/tools/value-range-propagation/229300211


 Would I be asking for too much if I ask
 DMD to provide a compiler flag that makes it return bytes and 
 shorts for
 operations on them?



 That won't happen.


 Andrei



But than we have a bug in the value range propagation algorithm.
E.g in the original program:
void main()
{
  import std.stdio;
  ushort a = 0x55AA;
  ushort b = 0xAA55;
  writefln("%X", ~(a | b));
}

(a | b) will be in the range of ushort values and ~ of that also 
remains in the same value range. In other words, it makes no 
sense that boolean ops (and, or, xor, 1's compliment, 2's 
compliment) will require type promotion as they cannot exceed the 
original width of the values. This is unlike arithmetic which can 
require promotion.
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "js.mdnq" <js_adddot+mdng gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 at 14:02:52 UTC, d coder wrote:

 On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Peter Alexander <
 peter.alexander.au gmail.com> wrote:


 That's the whole point. What you are doing is dangerous, so it 
 requires
 the cast.




 What I am doing is not dangerous. I am operating at byte/short 
 level.
 Tell me, if what I am doing is dangerous, how come doing the 
 following is
 not dangerous. It is allowed by D.

 int a, b, c;
 a = b + c;

 Also the sense of safety that you get for short and byte too is 
 not
 complete. Consider:

 void main() {
   import std.stdio;
   ushort a = ushort.max;
   ushort b = ushort.max;
   a += b;
   writeln(a);
 }


 Is it too much to ask for consistent behavior across the 
 built-in types?

 Regards
 - Puneet



What if you create a new type that creates the proper 
functionality and does the implicit casting and such? This would 
hide away the details but maybe at a cost of efficiency.

e.g.,

struct bbyte {
byte value;
...
}

bbyte a; bbyte b;

b = a + b; // uses bbyte's operators and casts to do the 
computation and assignment but then returns a bbyte instead of an 
int.

You should have no problems implicitly converting bbyte to built 
in types or built in types to bbyte.
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent d coder <dlang.coder gmail.com> writes:
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On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:40 AM, Walter Bright
<newshound2 digitalmars.com>wrote:


 No worries there :-) I feel pretty dang strongly about this issue, from
 bad experience.

 Even if a language behaves "wrong", it is still usable if it is
 predictable.



Agreed.

How about this.

1. Let "char" and "short" behave the C/C++ way. These can return integers.
This will make C/C++ code work in D.
2. Make D "byte" operations return bytes. And create another type (named
say dbyte or shortint) and make operations on the new type return
shortints. This will make these types more usable in D code. Well we end up
adding another keyword, but we shall get workable and safe 8-bit and 16-bit
integrals.

Regards
- Puneet

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:40 AM, Walter =
Bright <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:newshound2 digitalmars.com" =
target=3D"_blank">newshound2 digitalmars.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div id=3D":1d8">No worries there :-) I feel pretty dang strongly about thi=
s issue, from bad experience.<br>
<br>
Even if a language behaves &quot;wrong&quot;, it is still usable if it is p=
redictable.</div></blockquote></div><br><div>Agreed.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>How about this.</div><div><br></div><div>1. Let &quot;char&quot; and &qu=
ot;short&quot; behave the C/C++ way. These can return integers. This will m=
ake C/C++ code work in D.</div>

<div>2. Make D &quot;byte&quot; operations return bytes. And create another=
 type (named say dbyte or shortint) and make operations on the new type ret=
urn shortints. This will make these types more usable in D code. Well we en=
d up adding another keyword, but we shall get workable and safe 8-bit and 1=
6-bit integrals.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Regards</div><div>- Puneet</div>

--047d7b2e0bff50342c04d09f220e--
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Denis Koroskin" <2korden gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 12 December 2012 at 03:10:15 UTC, d coder wrote:

 On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:40 AM, Walter Bright
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com>wrote:


 No worries there :-) I feel pretty dang strongly about this 
 issue, from
 bad experience.

 Even if a language behaves "wrong", it is still usable if it is
 predictable.



 Agreed.

 How about this.

 1. Let "char" and "short" behave the C/C++ way. These can 
 return integers.
 This will make C/C++ code work in D.
 2. Make D "byte" operations return bytes. And create another 
 type (named
 say dbyte or shortint) and make operations on the new type 
 return
 shortints. This will make these types more usable in D code. 
 Well we end up
 adding another keyword, but we shall get workable and safe 
 8-bit and 16-bit
 integrals.

 Regards
 - Puneet



What's now is safer than what you propose. You can always create 
your own data type that would automatically truncate result if 
you wish so.
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent d coder <dlang.coder gmail.com> writes:
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On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Denis Koroskin <2korden gmail.com> wrote:


 What's now is safer than what you propose. You can always create your own
 data type that would automatically truncate result if you wish so.




:-)

I should not have used the word "safe" there. All I meant was "safer" than
C++ which allows implicit conversion form int to short and long to int.

Yes, I am now using my own User Type.

Regards
- Puneet

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 9:07 AM, Denis K=
oroskin <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:2korden gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">2korden gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">

What&#39;s now is safer than what you propose. You can always create your o=
wn data type that would automatically truncate result if you wish so.</bloc=
kquote></div><br><div>:-)</div><div><br></div><div>I should not have used t=
he word &quot;safe&quot; there. All I meant was &quot;safer&quot; than C++ =
which allows implicit conversion form int to short and long to int.</div>

<div><br></div><div>Yes, I am now using my own User Type.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Regards</div><div>- Puneet</div>

--f46d042f945a781bb304d0a05396--
Dec 11 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Simen Kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:
On 2012-09-12 00:12, js.mdnq <js_adddot+mdng gmail.com> wrote:


 struct bbyte {
 byte value;
 ...
 }

 bbyte a; bbyte b;

 b = a + b; // uses bbyte's operators and casts to do the computation and  
 assignment but then returns a bbyte instead of an int.

 You should have no problems implicitly converting bbyte to built in  
 types or built in types to bbyte.



Not entirely true. Converting from bbyte to built-in works, but these
are to my knowledge currently impossible:

void foo(bbyte b);
byte b;

foo(b); // No conversion.


bbyte bar( ) {
     byte b;
     return b;
}


-- 
Simen
Dec 12 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 09:23:35 Simen Kjaeraas wrote:

 On 2012-09-12 00:12, js.mdnq <js_adddot+mdng gmail.com> wrote:

 struct bbyte {
 byte value;
 ...
 }
 
 bbyte a; bbyte b;
 
 b = a + b; // uses bbyte's operators and casts to do the computation and
 assignment but then returns a bbyte instead of an int.
 
 You should have no problems implicitly converting bbyte to built in
 types or built in types to bbyte.



 Not entirely true. Converting from bbyte to built-in works, but these
 are to my knowledge currently impossible:
 
 void foo(bbyte b);
 byte b;
 
 foo(b); // No conversion.
 
 
 bbyte bar( ) {
      byte b;
      return b;
 }



You can do it with alias this, but the current lack of ability to have 
multiple alias thises probably makes it so that you can't use it for 
converting in both directions unless you want to directly alias it to the  
member variable holding the value (which eans no checks or whatever else you 
might want to do in bbyte). Once we can have multiple alias thises though, 
that shouldn't be problem anymore.

- Jonathan M Davis
Dec 12 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Simen Kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:
On 2012-17-12 10:12, Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> wrote:


 On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 09:23:35 Simen Kjaeraas wrote:

 On 2012-09-12 00:12, js.mdnq <js_adddot+mdng gmail.com> wrote:

 struct bbyte {
 byte value;
 ...
 }

 bbyte a; bbyte b;

 b = a + b; // uses bbyte's operators and casts to do the computation  




 assignment but then returns a bbyte instead of an int.

 You should have no problems implicitly converting bbyte to built in
 types or built in types to bbyte.



 Not entirely true. Converting from bbyte to built-in works, but these
 are to my knowledge currently impossible:

 void foo(bbyte b);
 byte b;

 foo(b); // No conversion.


 bbyte bar( ) {
      byte b;
      return b;
 }



 You can do it with alias this, but the current lack of ability to have
 multiple alias thises probably makes it so that you can't use it for
 converting in both directions unless you want to directly alias it to the
 member variable holding the value (which eans no checks or whatever else  
 you
 might want to do in bbyte). Once we can have multiple alias thises  
 though,
 that shouldn't be problem anymore.



Really? This certainly does not compile for me:


struct bbyte {
     byte b;
     alias b this;
}

void bar(bbyte b) {}

bbyte baz() {
     byte b;
     return b; // cannot implicitly convert expression (b) of type byte to  
bbyte
}

void main() {
     byte b;
     bar(b); // function bar (bbyte b) is not callable using argument types  
(byte)
}


This is also the reason for bug #8570

http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=8570

-- 
Simen
Dec 12 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "js.mdnq" <js_adddot+mdng gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 12 December 2012 at 08:23:48 UTC, Simen Kjaeraas 
wrote:

 On 2012-09-12 00:12, js.mdnq <js_adddot+mdng gmail.com> wrote:


 struct bbyte {
 byte value;
 ...
 }

 bbyte a; bbyte b;

 b = a + b; // uses bbyte's operators and casts to do the 
 computation and assignment but then returns a bbyte instead of 
 an int.

 You should have no problems implicitly converting bbyte to 
 built in types or built in types to bbyte.



 Not entirely true. Converting from bbyte to built-in works, but 
 these
 are to my knowledge currently impossible:

 void foo(bbyte b);
 byte b;

 foo(b); // No conversion.


 bbyte bar( ) {
     byte b;
     return b;
 }




What I mean is that you use bbyte for all your arithmetic 
operations and computations.  When you need to convert it to a 
byte(hopefully at the end of the process), you can use an 
implicit cast.


struct bbyte {
	byte b;
	byte opCast(bbyte a) { return a.b; }
	alias b this;


	bbyte bar(byte b) { bbyte q; q.b = b; return q; }

	byte foo(bbyte b) {  return b.b; }
}

byte bar2(byte b) { return b; }



int main(string[] argv)
{

	bbyte bb;
	byte b;

	bb.foo(bb); 		
	bb.bar(b);
	b = bb;
	bb = b;
}

the point is no explicit op casts are required. Essentially a 
bbyte is a byte. One can overload all the operators that are 
needed for bit manipulation, even using asm if necessary and one 
should be able to hide most of the details. `alias this` might 
not stop some of the value propagation in some cases. If one only 
converts to the built-in types when actually needed(when passing 
to and from routines that use them) but uses bbyte for all bit 
manipulations it shouldn't be much of a problem(if at all).


The idea is that conversion from bbyte to byte does not induce an 
expansion to int, only the arithmetic operations. Hence, 
overriding them can stop that.

but something like

byte b1;
byte b2;
bbyte b3 = b1 + b2;

is computing the arithmetic operation from byte(which converts to 
an int). This is why I say one must use bbytes for all arithmetic 
operations to solve that problem. (or write a cast for int, if 
you just don't want to deal with it but don't mind the expansion)

But this works:

byte b1;
byte b2;
bbyte b3;
b3 = b1 + b2;

if one has bbyte opAssign(int i) { this.b = cast(byte)i; return 
this; } in bbyte.

which avoids having to do b3 = cast(byte)(b1 + b2) which I think 
was what the original post was about.
Dec 12 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Jonathan M Davis" <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:42:31 Simen Kjaeraas wrote:

 Really? This certainly does not compile for me:
 
 
 struct bbyte {
 byte b;
 alias b this;
 }
 
 void bar(bbyte b) {}
 
 bbyte baz() {
 byte b;
 return b; // cannot implicitly convert expression (b) of type byte to
 bbyte
 }
 
 void main() {
 byte b;
 bar(b); // function bar (bbyte b) is not callable using argument types
 (byte)
 }
 
 
 This is also the reason for bug #8570
 
 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=8570



If alias this isn't do an implict conversion, then there's a bug in alias 
this. That's how implict conversion is done in D, and it's the whole point
of alias this.

- Jonathan M Davis
Dec 12 2012
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/12/2012 10:25 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 If alias this isn't do an implict conversion, then there's a bug in alias
 this. That's how implict conversion is done in D, and it's the whole point
 of alias this.



And it does, as I relied on this to do the halffloat implementation.
Dec 12 2012
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/13/2012 6:30 AM, Simen Kjaeraas wrote:

 Walter does not seem to agree (see his post in this discussion).



Note that the following implementation of halffloat does work, allowing
explicit 
cast to halffloat and implicit conversion from.
(The halffloat literals don't work at the moment because of a limitation in 
CTFE, I'm working with Don to resolve that.)
-----------------------------------------------------------

/*
  * References:
  *      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-precision_floating-point_format
  */

module halffloat;

struct HF {

     /* Provide implicit conversion of HF to float
      */

      property float toFloat() { return shortToFloat(s); }
     alias toFloat this;

     /* Done as a template in order to prevent implicit conversion
      * of argument to float.
      */

     this(T : float)(T f)
     {
         static assert(is(T == float));
         s = floatToShort(f);
     }

     /* These are done as properties to avoid
      * circular reference problems.
      */

     static  property HF min_normal() { HF hf = void; hf.s = 0x0400; return hf; 
/* fp16!0x1p-14; */ }
     static  property HF max()        { HF hf = void; hf.s = 0x7BFF; return hf; 
/* fp16!0x1.FFCp+15; */ }
     static  property HF nan()        { HF hf = void; hf.s = EXPMASK | 1;
return 
hf; /* fp16!(float.nan); */ }
     static  property HF infinity()   { HF hf = void; hf.s = EXPMASK; return
hf; 
/* fp16!(float.infinity); */ }
     static  property HF epsilon()    { HF hf = void; hf.s = 0x3C01; return hf; 
/* fp16!0x1p-10; */ }

     enum dig =        3;
     enum mant_dig =   11;
     enum max_10_exp = 5;
     enum max_exp =    16;
     enum min_10_exp = -5;
     enum min_exp =    -14;

   private:
     ushort s = EXPMASK | 1;     // .init is HF.nan
}

/********************
  * User defined literal for Half Float.
  */

template fp16(float v)
{
     enum fp16 = HF(v);
}

private:

// Half float values
enum SIGNMASK  = 0x8000;
enum EXPMASK   = 0x7C00;
enum MANTMASK  = 0x03FF;
enum HIDDENBIT = 0x0400;

// float values
enum FSIGNMASK  = 0x80000000;
enum FEXPMASK   = 0x7F800000;
enum FMANTMASK  = 0x007FFFFF;
enum FHIDDENBIT = 0x00800000;

// Rounding mode
enum ROUND { TONEAREST, UPWARD, DOWNWARD, TOZERO };
enum ROUNDMODE = ROUND.TONEAREST;

union U { uint u; float f; }

ushort floatToShort(float f)
{
     /* If the target CPU has a conversion instruction, this code could be
      * replaced with inline asm or a compiler intrinsic, but leave this
      * as the CTFE path so CTFE can work on it.
      */

     /* The code currently does not set INEXACT, UNDERFLOW, or OVERFLOW,
      * but is marked where those would go.
      */

     U uf = void;
     uf.f = f;
     uint s = uf.u;

     ushort u = (s & FSIGNMASK) ? SIGNMASK : 0;
     int exp = s & FEXPMASK;
     if (exp == FEXPMASK)  // if nan or infinity
     {
         if ((s & FMANTMASK) == 0)       // if infinity
         {
             u |= EXPMASK;
         }
         else                            // else nan
         {
             u |= EXPMASK | 1;
         }
         return u;
     }

     uint significand = s & FMANTMASK;

     if (exp == 0)                       // if subnormal or zero
     {
         if (significand == 0)           // if zero
             return u;

         /* A subnormal float is going to give us a zero result anyway,
          * so just set UNDERFLOW and INEXACT and return +-0.
          */
         return u;
     }
     else                                // else normal
     {
         // normalize exponent and remove bias
         exp = (exp >> 23) - 127;
         significand |= FHIDDENBIT;
     }

     exp += 15;                          // bias the exponent

     bool guard = false;                 // guard bit
     bool sticky = false;                // sticky bit

     uint shift = 13;                    // lop off rightmost 13 bits
     if (exp <= 0)                       // if subnormal
     {   shift += -exp + 1;              // more bits to lop off
         exp = 0;
     }
     if (shift > 23)
     {
         // Set UNDERFLOW, INEXACT, return +-0
         return u;
     }

     // Lop off rightmost 13 bits, but save guard and sticky bits
     guard = (significand & (1 << (shift - 1))) != 0;
     sticky = (significand & ((1 << (shift - 1)) - 1)) != 0;
     significand >>= shift;

     if (guard || sticky)
     {
         // Lost some bits, so set INEXACT and round the result
         switch (ROUNDMODE)
         {
             case ROUND.TONEAREST:
                 if (guard && (sticky || (significand & 1)))
                     ++significand;
                 break;

             case ROUND.UPWARD:
                 if (!(s & FSIGNMASK))
                     ++significand;
                 break;

             case ROUND.DOWNWARD:
                 if (s & FSIGNMASK)
                     ++significand;
                 break;

             case ROUND.TOZERO:
                 break;

             default:
                 assert(0);
         }
         if (exp == 0)                           // if subnormal
         {
             if (significand & HIDDENBIT)        // and not a subnormal no more
                 ++exp;
         }
         else if (significand & (HIDDENBIT << 1))
         {
             significand >>= 1;
             ++exp;
         }
     }

     if (exp > 30)
     {   // Set OVERFLOW and INEXACT, return +-infinity
         return u | EXPMASK;
     }

     /* Add exponent and significand into result.
      */

     u |= exp << 10;                             // exponent
     u |= (significand & ~HIDDENBIT);            // significand

     return u;
}

float shortToFloat(ushort s)
{
     /* If the target CPU has a conversion instruction, this code could be
      * replaced with inline asm or a compiler intrinsic, but leave this
      * as the CTFE path so CTFE can work on it.
      */
     /* This one is fairly easy because there are no possible errors
      * and no necessary rounding.
      */

     int exp = s & EXPMASK;
     if (exp == EXPMASK)  // if nan or infinity
     {
         float f;
         if ((s & MANTMASK) == 0)        // if infinity
         {
             f = float.infinity;
         }
         else                            // else nan
         {
             f = float.nan;
         }
         return (s & SIGNMASK) ? -f : f;
     }

     uint significand = s & MANTMASK;

     if (exp == 0)                       // if subnormal or zero
     {
         if (significand == 0)           // if zero
             return (s & SIGNMASK) ? -0.0f : 0.0f;

         // Normalize by shifting until the hidden bit is 1
         while (!(significand & HIDDENBIT))
         {
             significand <<= 1;
             --exp;
         }
         significand &= ~HIDDENBIT;      // hidden bit is, well, hidden
	exp -= 14;
     }
     else                                // else normal
     {
         // normalize exponent and remove bias
         exp = (exp >> 10) - 15;
     }

     /* Assemble sign, exponent, and significand into float.
      * Don't have to deal with overflow, inexact, or subnormal
      * because the range of floats is big enough.
      */

     assert(-126 <= exp && exp <= 127);  // just to be sure

     //printf("exp = %d, significand = x%x\n", exp, significand);

     uint u = (s & SIGNMASK) << 16;      // sign bit
     u |= (exp + 127) << 23;             // bias the exponent and shift into 
position
     u |= significand << (23 - 10);

     U uf = void;

     uf.u = u;
     return uf.f;
}

import std.stdio;

void main() {
//    HF h = fp16!27.2f;
//    HF j = cast(HF)( fp16!3.5f + fp16!5 );
     HF f = HF(0.0f);

     f.s = 0x3C00;
     writeln("1 ", cast(float)f);

     f.s = 0x3C01;
     writeln("1.0009765625 ", cast(float)f);
     assert(f == HF.epsilon);

     f.s = 0xC000;
     writeln("-2 ", cast(float)f);

     f.s = 0x7BFF;
     writeln("65504 ", cast(float)f);
     assert(f == HF.max);

     f.s = 0x0400;
     writeln("6.10352e-5 ", cast(float)f);
     assert(f == HF.min_normal);

     f.s = 0x03FF;
     writeln("6.09756e-5 ", cast(float)f);

     f.s = 1;
     writeln("5.96046e-8 ", cast(float)f);

     f.s = 0;
     writeln("0 ", cast(float)f);
     assert(f == 0.0f);

     f.s = 0x8000;
     writeln("-0 ", cast(float)f);
     assert(f == -0.0f);

     f.s = 0x7C00;
     writeln("infinity ", cast(float)f);
     assert(f == HF.infinity);

     f.s = 0xFC00;
     writeln("-infinity ", cast(float)f);
     assert(f == -HF.infinity);

     f.s = 0x3555;
     writeln("0.33325 ", cast(float)f);
}
Dec 13 2012
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/13/2012 10:19 PM, H. S. Teoh wrote:

 This is cool, I've never thought of using alias this on a  property
 function. I'll have to start using that in my code. :-)



That's actually why I wrote it - as a "template" for how to do similar user 
defined types.



 The rest of the code is tl;dr, but I think it does showcase quite well
 the power of user-defined types in D. Now we just have to iron out
 implicit conversion from literals (and I mean that in general, not just
 for this particular example), and it will just be great.



Yup. Once all that works, I'd like to incorporate halffloat into Phobos.
Dec 14 2012
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/14/2012 4:02 PM, H. S. Teoh wrote:

 I'm so impressed by this trick that I decided to do a writeup of it on
 the wiki:

 	http://wiki.dlang.org/Implicit_conversions_in_user_types



I'd prefer to call it a "technique" rather than a "trick", because this is what 
alias this was designed for!
Dec 14 2012
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/14/2012 6:27 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

 BTW is there any idea for the timetable of multiple alas this like described in
 Andrei's book?



Not at the moment.
Dec 14 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jonathan M Davis" <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 13:35:59 Walter Bright wrote:

 On 12/12/2012 10:25 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 If alias this isn't do an implict conversion, then there's a bug in alias
 this. That's how implict conversion is done in D, and it's the whole point
 of alias this.



 And it does, as I relied on this to do the halffloat implementation.



Simen's example doesn't seem to work though, so he appears to have found a 
bug. Certainly, I don't see anything wrong with it, but alias this doesn't 
seem to work for it. Regardless, my point was that if there's a case where 
alias this isn't doing an implicit conversion, then it's a bug, because that's 
the whole reason that it exists.

- Jonathan M Davis
Dec 12 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Simen Kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:
On 2012-22-13 04:12, Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> wrote:


 On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 13:35:59 Walter Bright wrote:

 On 12/12/2012 10:25 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 If alias this isn't do an implict conversion, then there's a bug in  




 this. That's how implict conversion is done in D, and it's the whole  




 of alias this.



 And it does, as I relied on this to do the halffloat implementation.



 Simen's example doesn't seem to work though, so he appears to have found  
 a
 bug. Certainly, I don't see anything wrong with it, but alias this  
 doesn't
 seem to work for it. Regardless, my point was that if there's a case  
 where
 alias this isn't doing an implicit conversion, then it's a bug, because  
 that's
 the whole reason that it exists.



So it is supposed to work? I've always thought this was a deliberate design
choice. I guess I'll file a bug, then. Here:

http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9147

Kenji, you here? :p

-- 
Simen
Dec 13 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent kenji hara <k.hara.pg gmail.com> writes:
--f46d04374ee16b9b4804d0bb602e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

D does not support such implicit *construction* in return statement and
function argument.
It is a current language design, and not a bug.

Kenji Hara


2012/12/13 Simen Kjaeraas <simen.kjaras gmail.com>


 On 2012-22-13 04:12, Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> wrote:

  On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 13:35:59 Walter Bright wrote:

 On 12/12/2012 10:25 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:

 If alias this isn't do an implict conversion, then there's a bug in




 this. That's how implict conversion is done in D, and it's the whole




 of alias this.



 And it does, as I relied on this to do the halffloat implementation.



 Simen's example doesn't seem to work though, so he appears to have found a
 bug. Certainly, I don't see anything wrong with it, but alias this doesn't
 seem to work for it. Regardless, my point was that if there's a case where
 alias this isn't doing an implicit conversion, then it's a bug, because
 that's
 the whole reason that it exists.



 So it is supposed to work? I've always thought this was a deliberate design
 choice. I guess I'll file a bug, then. Here:

 http://d.puremagic.com/issues/**show_bug.cgi?id=9147<http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9147>

 Kenji, you here? :p

 --
 Simen



--f46d04374ee16b9b4804d0bb602e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

D does not support such implicit *construction* in return statement and
function argument.<div>It is a current language design, and not a
bug.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Kenji Hara</div><div
class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
2012/12/13 Simen Kjaeraas <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
href="mailto:simen.kjaras gmail.com"
target="_blank">simen.kjaras gmail.com</a>&gt;</span><br><blockquote
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">On <a href="tel:2012-22-13%2004"
value="+12012221304" target="_blank">2012-22-13 04</a>:12, Jonathan M Davis
&lt;<a href="mailto:jmdavisProg gmx.com"
target="_blank">jmdavisProg gmx.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 13:35:59 Walter Bright wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 12/12/2012 10:25 AM, Jonathan M Davis wrote:<br>
&gt; If alias this isn&#39;t do an implict conversion, then there&#39;s a bug
in alias<br>
&gt; this. That&#39;s how implict conversion is done in D, and it&#39;s the
whole point<br>
&gt; of alias this.<br>
<br>
And it does, as I relied on this to do the halffloat implementation.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Simen&#39;s example doesn&#39;t seem to work though, so he appears to have
found a<br>
bug. Certainly, I don&#39;t see anything wrong with it, but alias this
doesn&#39;t<br>
seem to work for it. Regardless, my point was that if there&#39;s a case
where<br>
alias this isn&#39;t doing an implicit conversion, then it&#39;s a bug, because
that&#39;s<br>
the whole reason that it exists.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>
So it is supposed to work? I&#39;ve always thought this was a deliberate
design<br>
choice. I guess I&#39;ll file a bug, then. Here:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=9147"
target="_blank">http://d.puremagic.com/issues/<u></u>show_bug.cgi?id=9147</a><br>
<br>
Kenji, you here? :p<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Simen<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

--f46d04374ee16b9b4804d0bb602e--
Dec 13 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Simen Kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:
On 2012-51-13 13:12, kenji hara <k.hara.pg gmail.com> wrote:


 D does not support such implicit *construction* in return statement and
 function argument.
 It is a current language design, and not a bug.



Walter does not seem to agree (see his post in this discussion). Previous
discussions with Andrei (see bug #8570[1] and related discussion[2])
indicates he also thinks alias this (or some other language feature)
should support this. I guess this is not really relevant to this
discussion, so I'll make a separate  thread.


[1]: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=8570
[2]:  
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/sedknwtlaefrxuflnbez forum.dlang.org?page=8#postjul0qv:242l9d:241:40digitalmars.com


-- 
Simen
Dec 13 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> writes:
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 05:44:23PM -0800, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 12/13/2012 6:30 AM, Simen Kjaeraas wrote:

Walter does not seem to agree (see his post in this discussion).



 Note that the following implementation of halffloat does work,
 allowing explicit cast to halffloat and implicit conversion from.
 (The halffloat literals don't work at the moment because of a
 limitation in CTFE, I'm working with Don to resolve that.)
 -----------------------------------------------------------



Nice!!


[...]

     /* Provide implicit conversion of HF to float
      */
 
      property float toFloat() { return shortToFloat(s); }
     alias toFloat this;




This is cool, I've never thought of using alias this on a  property
function. I'll have to start using that in my code. :-)

The rest of the code is tl;dr, but I think it does showcase quite well
the power of user-defined types in D. Now we just have to iron out
implicit conversion from literals (and I mean that in general, not just
for this particular example), and it will just be great.


T

-- 
Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? Who knows? Who cares? -- Erich Schubert
Dec 13 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh quickfur.ath.cx> writes:
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 12:39:04AM -0800, Walter Bright wrote:

 On 12/13/2012 10:19 PM, H. S. Teoh wrote:

This is cool, I've never thought of using alias this on a  property
function. I'll have to start using that in my code. :-)



 That's actually why I wrote it - as a "template" for how to do
 similar user defined types.




I'm so impressed by this trick that I decided to do a writeup of it on
the wiki:

	http://wiki.dlang.org/Implicit_conversions_in_user_types


T

-- 
If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon
execution. -- Robert Sewell
Dec 14 2012
prev sibling next sibling parent "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 15 December 2012 at 02:23:18 UTC, Walter Bright 
wrote:

 I'd prefer to call it a "technique" rather than a "trick", 
 because this is what alias this was designed for!




BTW is there any idea for the timetable of multiple alas this 
like described in Andrei's book?
Dec 14 2012
prev sibling parent "Era Scarecrow" <rtcvb32 yahoo.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 11 December 2012 at 12:53:38 UTC, monarch_dodra wrote:

 integer operations are always promoted to at least int. That's 
 standard fare since C. I think it is a performance thing: 
 Unpack into ints, oeprate, repack into ints.



  If memory serves me right, promotion to int is based more on CPU 
efficiency and code size than anything else (and yes packing and 
unpacking takes some 6 extra steps). Also with libraries possibly 
written by different compilers may have different results if they 
don't all agree on a common (default) type to return.

  Also most x86 operations for ints can be written as 1 byte 
opcodes, although for modern CPUs that kind of code generation 
may not be as efficient as it used to be.

http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/6154/Writing-Efficient-C-and-C-Code-Optimization
Dec 16 2012