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digitalmars.D - Is D production-ready?

reply "John Petal" <john_petal randommail.net> writes:
Hi!
A while ago, after my journey with PHP and Python, I've decided 
to learn C++. However, the more I learned, the more it got 
complicated. I think what Scott Meyer said in his talk was the 
main reason: the language was inconsistent; it didn't make sense 
as a whole. It always needed an extra explanation.

I saw D. "It is unstable!" they said, "There aren't enough 
tools!" they said. I thought, "If I learn C++, he learns C++, 
then how the hell alternatives are supposed to rise?" I felt 
responsible. I wanted to contribute to D community.

So I gave D a shot. People were kind of right – it was hard for a 
beginner for me to get into. I mean, I spent a whole day trying 
to make DSFML work. I wasn't trying to produce anything, so I was 
happy that I spent my time learning those things. I'm getting 
better – I still don't consider myself as a "programmer," but I'm 
getting better.
(Sorry about the storytelling, I just wanted to share.)

Now I want to know if the language is production-ready. I can't 
really see anything besides abandoned libraries written in D. Is 
it possible – for example – to write a simple 2D game, or an 
automation program, or a text editor in D? I know the language is 
perfectly capable, but I'm not sure if the tools are mature 
enough.

Does D have a mature and cross-platform GUI library?
Does D have a mature SFML or SDL binding?
Are there any advices you can give me?

By the way, sorry for my English.

Thank you!
John
Jun 16 2014
next sibling parent reply "John Petal" <john_petal randommail.net> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Hi!
 A while ago, after my journey with PHP and Python, I've decided 
 to learn C++. However, the more I learned, the more it got 
 complicated. I think what Scott Meyer said in his talk was the 
 main reason: the language was inconsistent; it didn't make 
 sense as a whole. It always needed an extra explanation.

 I saw D. "It is unstable!" they said, "There aren't enough 
 tools!" they said. I thought, "If I learn C++, he learns C++, 
 then how the hell alternatives are supposed to rise?" I felt 
 responsible. I wanted to contribute to D community.

 So I gave D a shot. People were kind of right – it was hard for 
 a beginner for me to get into. I mean, I spent a whole day 
 trying to make DSFML work. I wasn't trying to produce anything, 
 so I was happy that I spent my time learning those things. I'm 
 getting better – I still don't consider myself as a 
 "programmer," but I'm getting better.
 (Sorry about the storytelling, I just wanted to share.)

 Now I want to know if the language is production-ready. I can't 
 really see anything besides abandoned libraries written in D. 
 Is it possible – for example – to write a simple 2D game, or an 
 automation program, or a text editor in D? I know the language 
 is perfectly capable, but I'm not sure if the tools are mature 
 enough.

 Does D have a mature and cross-platform GUI library?
 Does D have a mature SFML or SDL binding?
 Are there any advices you can give me?

 By the way, sorry for my English.

 Thank you!
 John

And I should add: Would you mind sharing something where you use D actively? Thank you! John
Jun 16 2014
next sibling parent reply Rikki Cattermole <alphaglosined gmail.com> writes:
On 16/06/2014 11:14 p.m., seeker wrote:
 NO IT'S NOT!
 no working/incomplete windows headers for 32 and 64 bit.
 no gui or db lib and tons of abandoned libs and proggies that you
 mentioned.

Wow now. For database libraries, there is a few choices out there currently. Mysql, Mongodb, Redis and Postgresql. There's also a couple different ORM's. If you really feel the need to get access to some more arcane database's there is always OpenDBX (c library) but getting it to compile is a little harder on Windows (library not the binding). As for Windows headers, there is one set pretty well manually developed floating around. I also have my own version that was generated directly from MingW64's headers. Not fully tested but so far not really any issues. So I'd say almost fully complete (few edge cases I missed in the script).
 if your are on linux like most of the lieutenants and the vice-general
 you may be fine.

Majority of the time this isn't an issue unless its a 'new fangled feature' like shared libraries. Now Mac OSX on the other hand..
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:28:50 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Hi!
 A while ago, after my journey with PHP and Python, I've decided to
 learn C++. However, the more I learned, the more it got complicated.
 I think what Scott Meyer said in his talk was the main reason: the
 language was inconsistent; it didn't make sense as a whole. It always
 needed an extra explanation.

 I saw D. "It is unstable!" they said, "There aren't enough tools!"
 they said. I thought, "If I learn C++, he learns C++, then how the
 hell alternatives are supposed to rise?" I felt responsible. I wanted
 to contribute to D community.

 So I gave D a shot. People were kind of right – it was hard for a
 beginner for me to get into. I mean, I spent a whole day trying to
 make DSFML work. I wasn't trying to produce anything, so I was happy
 that I spent my time learning those things. I'm getting better – I
 still don't consider myself as a "programmer," but I'm getting better.
 (Sorry about the storytelling, I just wanted to share.)

 Now I want to know if the language is production-ready. I can't
 really see anything besides abandoned libraries written in D. Is it
 possible – for example – to write a simple 2D game, or an automation
 program, or a text editor in D? I know the language is perfectly
 capable, but I'm not sure if the tools are mature enough.

 Does D have a mature and cross-platform GUI library?
 Does D have a mature SFML or SDL binding?
 Are there any advices you can give me?

 By the way, sorry for my English.

 Thank you!
 John

And I should add: Would you mind sharing something where you use D actively? Thank you! John


Jun 16 2014
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 6/16/14, 4:45 AM, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
 On 16/06/2014 11:14 p.m., seeker wrote:
 NO IT'S NOT!
 no working/incomplete windows headers for 32 and 64 bit.
 no gui or db lib and tons of abandoned libs and proggies that you
 mentioned.

Wow now. For database libraries, there is a few choices out there currently. Mysql, Mongodb, Redis and Postgresql. There's also a couple different ORM's. If you really feel the need to get access to some more arcane database's there is always OpenDBX (c library) but getting it to compile is a little harder on Windows (library not the binding).

Do we have a wiki page with database APIs? -- Andrei
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On 6/16/2014 8:14 PM, seeker wrote:
 NO IT'S NOT!
 no working/incomplete windows headers for 32 and 64 bit.
 no gui or db lib and tons of abandoned libs and proggies that you
 mentioned.

 if your are on linux like most of the lieutenants and the vice-general
 you may be fine.

YES IT IS! I've been using D on Windows just fine for years and so have several others. The Windows API binding works just fine if you need the Win32 API, either Andrej Mitrovic's version at github[1] or the original at DSource[2]. There are a growing number of tools and GUI libraries available, too. Just because the compiler doesn't ship with everything in one nice package, and just because the Windows ecosystem doesn't have a plethora of tools that you can count on being available like on Linux, does not mean DMD development favors Linux. [1] https://github.com/AndrejMitrovic/DWinProgramming [2] http://www.dsource.org/projects/bindings/wiki/WindowsApi --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Chris Cain" <zshazz gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Does D have a mature SFML or SDL binding?

http://code.dlang.org/packages/derelict-sfml2 and http://code.dlang.org/packages/derelict-sdl2 Are available. I have personally used the SDL2 bindings on both Windows and Mac and they work perfectly so far. Just download the library bindings from libsdl.org and go! For both SFML2 and SDL2, it uses the C interface, so the tutorials using C are the ones you'll want to pay attention to. In addition, there's GFM: http://code.dlang.org/packages/gfm It wraps SDL2 in a bit of a nicer interface (I had trouble using gfm as a dependency since ~master references gfm:bgfx which doesn't exist in the dub registry yet ... but gfm:sdl2 works when used as the dependency, however, it's somewhat new and incomplete ... could use some contributions, I think)
Jun 16 2014
parent Mike Parker <aldacron gmail.com> writes:
On 6/16/2014 7:39 PM, Chris Cain wrote:
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Does D have a mature SFML or SDL binding?

http://code.dlang.org/packages/derelict-sfml2 and http://code.dlang.org/packages/derelict-sdl2 Are available. I have personally used the SDL2 bindings on both Windows and Mac and they work perfectly so far. Just download the library bindings from libsdl.org and go! For both SFML2 and SDL2, it uses the C interface, so the tutorials using C are the ones you'll want to pay attention to. In addition, there's GFM: http://code.dlang.org/packages/gfm It wraps SDL2 in a bit of a nicer interface (I had trouble using gfm as a dependency since ~master references gfm:bgfx which doesn't exist in the dub registry yet ... but gfm:sdl2 works when used as the dependency, however, it's somewhat new and incomplete ... could use some contributions, I think)

Note that the DerelictSFML2 binding suffers from a long-standing DMD bug[1] on Linux, which makes it unusable when compiling as 64-bit. This is the reason Jeremy DeHaan created DSFML and DSFML-C in the first place, just to work around this bug. Looks like it may be partially fixed in the next release, though, so it's getting closer to no longer being a problem. The SDL2 binding is mature and stable. It also includes bindings for SDL_mixer/net/ttf/image. Aside from these, you'll also find bindings for OpenAL, OpenGL, GLFW3, FreeImage, FreeType and more in the DerelictOrg github group[2], all of which are available via dub[3]. [1] https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5570 [2] https://github.com/DerelictOrg [3] http://code.dlang.org/ --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "ponce" <contact gam3sfrommars.fr> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:39:42 UTC, Chris Cain wrote:
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Does D have a mature SFML or SDL binding?

http://code.dlang.org/packages/derelict-sfml2 and http://code.dlang.org/packages/derelict-sdl2 Are available. I have personally used the SDL2 bindings on both Windows and Mac and they work perfectly so far. Just download the library bindings from libsdl.org and go! For both SFML2 and SDL2, it uses the C interface, so the tutorials using C are the ones you'll want to pay attention to. In addition, there's GFM: http://code.dlang.org/packages/gfm It wraps SDL2 in a bit of a nicer interface (I had trouble using gfm as a dependency since ~master references gfm:bgfx which doesn't exist in the dub registry yet ... but gfm:sdl2 works when used as the dependency, however, it's somewhat new and incomplete ... could use some contributions, I think)

Ahem, looks like I commited something too early. This is a bug. In the mean time you can use the "==1.1.1" version. What are you missing in gfm:sdl2? Please report :) I recognize for now using the wrapper brings marginal utility.
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "John Colvin" <john.loughran.colvin gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 I can't really see anything besides abandoned libraries written 
 in D.
 Is it possible – for example – to write a simple 2D game, or an 
 automation program, or a text editor in D? I know the language 
 is perfectly capable, but I'm not sure if the tools are mature 
 enough.

 Does D have a mature and cross-platform GUI library?
 Does D have a mature SFML or SDL binding?
 Are there any advices you can give me?

 By the way, sorry for my English.

 Thank you!
 John

code.dlang.org
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Kiith-Sa" <kiithsacmp gmail.com> writes:
If you see "abandoned libraries", you're probably looking at 
DSource, which is dead. Everything has long since moved to GitHub.

Derelict provides good SDL2 as well as SFML2 bindings (and 
bindings to many other APIs). For GUI, (assuming you don't want 
Windows-only ones) TkD is simple and easy-to-use (think TkInter 
in Python) although a bit new, GtkD is usable but not "perfect", 
and there are many other frameworks/libs/bindings.

If you want very simple GUI in an OpenGL app, dimgui should work.

https://github.com/DerelictOrg
https://github.com/nomad-software/tkd
https://github.com/d-gamedev-team/dimgui


Also see the wiki (the old wiki is dead, just like DSource):
http://wiki.dlang.org/Libraries_and_Frameworks

And the DUB packages of libs and other projects:
http://code.dlang.org/
Jun 16 2014
parent reply Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On 6/17/2014 8:19 AM, Wyatt wrote:
 On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 10:32:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis via
 Digitalmars-d wrote:
 but as I understand it, no one knows how to get ahold of the
 fellow who runs it

Nah, it's pretty simple. Just send him an email. I did this some time last year, and even posted to the NG about it.

Yes, the issue isn't getting in contact with him, it's just that he's been too busy to continue maintaining it as much as he had been. I'm not sure if he's really still into D anymore anyway (though I could be wrong).
Jun 17 2014
parent Nick Sabalausky <SeeWebsiteToContactMe semitwist.com> writes:
On 6/17/2014 2:34 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 But if the issue is that he's too busy to maintain it, then why not ask
 him to turn over the keys to the community? I'm sure there are many
 willing hands on this forum to help keep that site up-to-date.

I'm not sure that's really needed. Just about everything's moved to GitHub/dub anyway. All that's really needed is some boilerplate message tossed up on most pages mentioning "outdated" and directing people to code.dlang.org and github.
Jun 17 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "seeker" <seeker xxx.com> writes:
NO IT'S NOT!
no working/incomplete windows headers for 32 and 64 bit.
no gui or db lib and tons of abandoned libs and proggies that you 
mentioned.

if your are on linux like most of the lieutenants and the 
vice-general you may be fine.



On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:28:50 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Hi!
 A while ago, after my journey with PHP and Python, I've 
 decided to learn C++. However, the more I learned, the more it 
 got complicated. I think what Scott Meyer said in his talk was 
 the main reason: the language was inconsistent; it didn't make 
 sense as a whole. It always needed an extra explanation.

 I saw D. "It is unstable!" they said, "There aren't enough 
 tools!" they said. I thought, "If I learn C++, he learns C++, 
 then how the hell alternatives are supposed to rise?" I felt 
 responsible. I wanted to contribute to D community.

 So I gave D a shot. People were kind of right – it was hard 
 for a beginner for me to get into. I mean, I spent a whole day 
 trying to make DSFML work. I wasn't trying to produce 
 anything, so I was happy that I spent my time learning those 
 things. I'm getting better – I still don't consider myself as 
 a "programmer," but I'm getting better.
 (Sorry about the storytelling, I just wanted to share.)

 Now I want to know if the language is production-ready. I 
 can't really see anything besides abandoned libraries written 
 in D. Is it possible – for example – to write a simple 2D 
 game, or an automation program, or a text editor in D? I know 
 the language is perfectly capable, but I'm not sure if the 
 tools are mature enough.

 Does D have a mature and cross-platform GUI library?
 Does D have a mature SFML or SDL binding?
 Are there any advices you can give me?

 By the way, sorry for my English.

 Thank you!
 John

And I should add: Would you mind sharing something where you use D actively? Thank you! John

Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Chris Cain" <zshazz gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:51:11 UTC, ponce wrote:
 Ahem, looks like I commited something too early. This is a bug.
 In the mean time you can use the "==1.1.1" version.

Actually, sadly, you can't use gfm at all (or, at least, I can't) ... It complains about not being able to satisfy dependencies, even specifying 1.1.1. (That might be a dub bug, though) Though just manually specifying gfm:sdl2 and such is fine.
 What are you missing in gfm:sdl2? Please report :)
 I recognize for now using the wrapper brings marginal utility.

No real need for reports, yet. AFAIK, all SDL2 things are available, but more wrappers could be available for things, I think. Plus it's best to save reports for things until after I get out of this stage of using your library: http://mlkshk.com/r/97VP (i_have_no_idea_what_im_doing_dog.jpg) If I start coming up with things, I'll start doing pull requests :) Thanks btw for gfm. So far it's been a pleasure to work with (despite not working with it as much as I'd like)
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "MattCoder" <idonthaveany mail.com> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:

 Is it possible – for example – to write a simple 2D game, or an 
 automation program, or a text editor in D?

Speaking by myself, I was able to write both: Game and Text Editor, using Derelict2 and Cairo respectively. PS: I know the general concerns but anyway don't be afraid, give it a try. Matheus.
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "ponce" <contact gam3sfrommars.fr> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 11:46:57 UTC, Chris Cain wrote:
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:51:11 UTC, ponce wrote:
 Ahem, looks like I commited something too early. This is a bug.
 In the mean time you can use the "==1.1.1" version.

Actually, sadly, you can't use gfm at all (or, at least, I can't) ... It complains about not being able to satisfy dependencies, even specifying 1.1.1. (That might be a dub bug, though)

I'll look into it. Depending on the parent package named "gfm" is fortunately never what you really want, since it depends itself on all other sub-packages which would make it a monolithic dependency. Specifying sub-packages instead in dependencies is the intended usage.
 No real need for reports, yet. AFAIK, all SDL2 things are 
 available, but more wrappers could be available for things, I 
 think. Plus it's best to save reports for things until after I 
 get out of this stage of using your library: 
 http://mlkshk.com/r/97VP (i_have_no_idea_what_im_doing_dog.jpg)

Fine.
 If I start coming up with things, I'll start doing pull 
 requests :)

 Thanks btw for gfm. So far it's been a pleasure to work with 
 (despite not working with it as much as I'd like)

It will only become better when you start complaining :)
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "ponce" <contact gam3sfrommars.fr> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Are there any advices you can give me?

If nothing can convince you, learning D will make it way easier to learn C++, and you won't write the same C++ either.
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Adam D. Ruppe" <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Now I want to know if the language is production-ready.

I've been using it on live production websites for a handful of jobs since 2009 with no significant problems.
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent Byron Heads <byron.heads gmail.com> writes:
On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:14:05 +0000, seeker wrote:

 NO IT'S NOT!
 no working/incomplete windows headers for 32 and 64 bit.
 no gui or db lib and tons of abandoned libs and proggies that you
 mentioned.
 
 if your are on linux like most of the lieutenants and the vice-general
 you may be fine.
 
 
 
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:28:50 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Hi!
 A while ago, after my journey with PHP and Python, I've decided to
 learn C++. However, the more I learned, the more it got complicated. I
 think what Scott Meyer said in his talk was the main reason: the
 language was inconsistent; it didn't make sense as a whole. It always
 needed an extra explanation.

 I saw D. "It is unstable!" they said, "There aren't enough tools!"
 they said. I thought, "If I learn C++, he learns C++, then how the
 hell alternatives are supposed to rise?" I felt responsible. I wanted
 to contribute to D community.

 So I gave D a shot. People were kind of right – it was hard for a
 beginner for me to get into. I mean, I spent a whole day trying to
 make DSFML work. I wasn't trying to produce anything, so I was happy
 that I spent my time learning those things. I'm getting better – I
 still don't consider myself as a "programmer," but I'm getting better.
 (Sorry about the storytelling, I just wanted to share.)

 Now I want to know if the language is production-ready. I can't really
 see anything besides abandoned libraries written in D. Is it possible
 – for example – to write a simple 2D game, or an automation program,
 or a text editor in D? I know the language is perfectly capable, but
 I'm not sure if the tools are mature enough.

 Does D have a mature and cross-platform GUI library?
 Does D have a mature SFML or SDL binding?
 Are there any advices you can give me?

 By the way, sorry for my English.

 Thank you!
 John

And I should add: Would you mind sharing something where you use D actively? Thank you! John


I have web site thats planned to launch next month that runs on windows, db included!
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Gary Willoughby" <dev nomad.so> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Does D have a mature and cross-platform GUI library?

I released this a month or so ago: http://code.dlang.org/packages/tkd It's fully cross-platform and very simple to use. If it's not as full featured as you need then try this: http://code.dlang.org/packages/gtk-d
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Brad Anderson" <eco gnuk.net> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 17:05:05 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
 On 6/16/14, 4:45 AM, Rikki Cattermole wrote:
 On 16/06/2014 11:14 p.m., seeker wrote:
 NO IT'S NOT!
 no working/incomplete windows headers for 32 and 64 bit.
 no gui or db lib and tons of abandoned libs and proggies that 
 you
 mentioned.

Wow now. For database libraries, there is a few choices out there currently. Mysql, Mongodb, Redis and Postgresql. There's also a couple different ORM's. If you really feel the need to get access to some more arcane database's there is always OpenDBX (c library) but getting it to compile is a little harder on Windows (library not the binding).

Do we have a wiki page with database APIs? -- Andrei

Not a page dedicated to it to my knowledge but there is this: http://wiki.dlang.org/Libraries_and_Frameworks#Databases You can also refer people to the dub registry category: http://code.dlang.org/?sort=updated&category=library.database
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jeremy DeHaan" <dehaan.jeremiah gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 I mean, I spent a whole day trying to make DSFML work.

Might I ask what issues you had getting it up and running? Things have been a little hectic for DSFML because of school, but with summer coming up I'll be able to work on fixing a bunch of things and I feel as though I am always lacking in the feedback department.
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "John Petal" <john_petal randommail.net> writes:
First of all, thank you everyone for the amazing help! TKD and 
Derelict libraries seem pretty good.

On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 17:32:23 UTC, Jeremy DeHaan wrote:
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 I mean, I spent a whole day trying to make DSFML work.

Might I ask what issues you had getting it up and running? Things have been a little hectic for DSFML because of school, but with summer coming up I'll be able to work on fixing a bunch of things and I feel as though I am always lacking in the feedback department.

The problem wasn't about the library itself, I was a complete newbie just trying to make some different stuff work. Apparently, I had SFML libraries, but I needed to use CSFML! John
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Idan Arye" <GenericNPC gmail.com> writes:
D is still unstable. Any time now non-null-by-default can get in 
and break tons of libraries and user code.
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Kapps" <opantm2+spam gmail.com> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 22:01:40 UTC, Idan Arye wrote:
 D is still unstable. Any time now non-null-by-default can get 
 in and break tons of libraries and user code.

That's not going to happen.
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Dicebot" <public dicebot.lv> writes:
On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 22:07:04 UTC, Kapps wrote:
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 22:01:40 UTC, Idan Arye wrote:
 D is still unstable. Any time now non-null-by-default can get 
 in and break tons of libraries and user code.

That's not going to happen.

Yeah don't confuse actively discussed topics with stuff which will actually get implemented, merged and survive until release.
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "deadalnix" <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:
Hi,

On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 So I gave D a shot. People were kind of right – it was hard for 
 a beginner for me to get into.

Could you make a whole sum up of the difficulties you encountered ? That kind of feedback is highly valuable for us. Once you get experienced, you kind of loose the feel of what it is to be a beginner. Please tell us what was difficult so we can work toward fixing it.
 I mean, I spent a whole day trying to make DSFML work. I wasn't 
 trying to produce anything, so I was happy that I spent my time 
 learning those things. I'm getting better – I still don't 
 consider myself as a "programmer," but I'm getting better.
 (Sorry about the storytelling, I just wanted to share.)

To the contrary, lease share more so we know the details and can fix them.
 Now I want to know if the language is production-ready. I can't 
 really see anything besides abandoned libraries written in D. 
 Is it possible – for example – to write a simple 2D game, or an 
 automation program, or a text editor in D? I know the language 
 is perfectly capable, but I'm not sure if the tools are mature 
 enough.

There are several companies that uses D, so yes. However, truth in advertising, it is much much much smaller than let's say java or C++. You are much more likely to encounter thing that have poor support or whatever, simply because the manpower behind in it is vastly smaller. Happy to get you on board :D
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Mon, 2014-06-16 at 11:10 +0000, Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 If you see "abandoned libraries", you're probably looking at 
 DSource, which is dead. Everything has long since moved to GitHub.

If true, then it should be removed from the Web to avoid confusing potential new users. If there is still good, up-to-date stuff there then the dross should be removed leaving only that which is useful. […] -- Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Mon, 2014-06-16 at 12:39 +0000, ponce via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Monday, 16 June 2014 at 10:24:46 UTC, John Petal wrote:
 Are there any advices you can give me?

If nothing can convince you, learning D will make it way easier to learn C++, and you won't write the same C++ either.

Also C++11 is a very different language to C++98 (and C++03). Whilst still not better than D by any means, it is a language that is usable and with very different idioms from earlier versions of C++. -- Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Jun 16 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 07:12:46 +0100
Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> wrote:

 On Mon, 2014-06-16 at 11:10 +0000, Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 If you see "abandoned libraries", you're probably looking at
 DSource, which is dead. Everything has long since moved to GitHub.

If true, then it should be removed from the Web to avoid confusing potential new users. If there is still good, up-to-date stuff there then the dross should be removed leaving only that which is useful.

It's well known by the D community that most of dsource is abandoned and useless at this point, but as I understand it, no one knows how to get ahold of the fellow who runs it, so that makes it very difficult to make any changes to dsource outside of the projects that you control (which I believe basically means that all we can change are the pages for the active projects). - Jonathan M Davis
Jun 17 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Tue, 2014-06-17 at 03:32 -0700, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
[…]
 It's well known by the D community that most of dsource is abandoned and
 useless at this point, but as I understand it, no one knows how to get ahold
 of the fellow who runs it, so that makes it very difficult to make any changes
 to dsource outside of the projects that you control (which I believe basically
 means that all we can change are the pages for the active projects).

There are processes via registrars for legitimate forced reassignment of control of DNS records, which is the last resort in this situation. I have been through this once with Nominet. It was appropriately legalistic, but smooth and relatively straightforward. -- Russel. ============================================================================= Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.net 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel winder.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Jun 17 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Wyatt" <wyatt.epp gmail.com> writes:
On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 10:32:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:
 but as I understand it, no one knows how to get ahold of the
 fellow who runs it

Nah, it's pretty simple. Just send him an email. I did this some time last year, and even posted to the NG about it.
 that makes it very difficult to make any changes to dsource
 outside of the projects that you control (which I believe
 basically means that all we can change are the pages for the
 active projects).

number of other things. I thought we had found a volunteer to take it over, but apparently nothing ever came of that. -Wyatt
Jun 17 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 16/06/14 12:24, John Petal wrote:

 Does D have a mature and cross-platform GUI library?

I would recommend DWT [1], although it currently doesn't work on OS X (I'm working on that). [1] https://github.com/d-widget-toolkit/dwt -- /Jacob Carlborg
Jun 17 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d" <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 02:11:09PM -0400, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
 On 6/17/2014 8:19 AM, Wyatt wrote:
On Tuesday, 17 June 2014 at 10:32:57 UTC, Jonathan M Davis via
Digitalmars-d wrote:
but as I understand it, no one knows how to get ahold of the fellow
who runs it

Nah, it's pretty simple. Just send him an email. I did this some time last year, and even posted to the NG about it.

Yes, the issue isn't getting in contact with him, it's just that he's been too busy to continue maintaining it as much as he had been. I'm not sure if he's really still into D anymore anyway (though I could be wrong).

But if the issue is that he's too busy to maintain it, then why not ask him to turn over the keys to the community? I'm sure there are many willing hands on this forum to help keep that site up-to-date. T -- GEEK = Gatherer of Extremely Enlightening Knowledge
Jun 17 2014
prev sibling parent "H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d" <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 04:12:07PM -0400, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
 On 6/17/2014 2:34 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
But if the issue is that he's too busy to maintain it, then why not
ask him to turn over the keys to the community? I'm sure there are
many willing hands on this forum to help keep that site up-to-date.

I'm not sure that's really needed. Just about everything's moved to GitHub/dub anyway. All that's really needed is some boilerplate message tossed up on most pages mentioning "outdated" and directing people to code.dlang.org and github.

Well, shouldn't that be easy to do? Just fire him an email to that effect? :) T -- Life would be easier if I had the source code. -- YHL
Jun 17 2014