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digitalmars.D - Google Summer of Code

reply Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de> writes:
Dear list,

Trass3r brought it up and I think it's a very good idea. D is lacking
some man power. The mentoring deadline is 11th of March. There are
important and interesting projects students may work on.

I'm writing this post seeking answers to
1. What's the "official" D stand on this matter?
2. Are there already students who have time and would like to join? What
   are you interested in?

The first question is currently the more important one. The organization
administrator has to submit an application until the above deadline.
The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students
need to propose/join a project.

Jens

PS
The FAQs on http://code.google.com/soc/ is very helpful.
Mar 03 2011
next sibling parent reply Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
 The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
 would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students
 need to propose/join a project.

Seems like mentoring organizations are also expected to add a list of project proposals to their application: http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google gsoc2011/faqs#ideas and http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/faqs#mentor_role So we'd have to collect project ideas as well.
Mar 03 2011
parent reply Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
 I believe there are enough ideas for projects (improve GC, std.stream,
 std.socket, benchmarking, ...). Searching the bug tracker and the
 archive will result in enough ideas, I suppose.

I think one of the most important things would be a proper IDE with semantic analysis like Descent and builtin debugger support like VisualD. But I don't know if that can be done as a SoC project.
Mar 03 2011
next sibling parent dennis luehring <dl.soluz gmx.net> writes:
Am 03.03.2011 16:27, schrieb Trass3r:
  I believe there are enough ideas for projects (improve GC, std.stream,
  std.socket, benchmarking, ...). Searching the bug tracker and the
  archive will result in enough ideas, I suppose.

I think one of the most important things would be a proper IDE with semantic analysis like Descent and builtin debugger support like VisualD. But I don't know if that can be done as a SoC project.

maybe QtCreator (http://qt.nokia.com/products/developer-tools/) (is it LGPL?) can be used as a fork base - so the ide will be multi-platform at start and even our unix/linux guys can work with it out of the box... i wouldn't start an ide from scratch - or use eclipse
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-03 16:27, Trass3r wrote:
 I believe there are enough ideas for projects (improve GC, std.stream,
 std.socket, benchmarking, ...). Searching the bug tracker and the
 archive will result in enough ideas, I suppose.

I think one of the most important things would be a proper IDE with semantic analysis like Descent and builtin debugger support like VisualD. But I don't know if that can be done as a SoC project.

I would like that. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jens Mueller <jens.k.mueller gmx.de> writes:
Trass3r wrote:
 The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
 would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students
 need to propose/join a project.

Seems like mentoring organizations are also expected to add a list of project proposals to their application: http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google gsoc2011/faqs#ideas and http://www.google-melange.com/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2011/faqs#mentor_role So we'd have to collect project ideas as well.

Yes. The second question is intended for this. But I think the first needs to be answered before that. I believe there are enough ideas for projects (improve GC, std.stream, std.socket, benchmarking, ...). Searching the bug tracker and the archive will result in enough ideas, I suppose. Jens
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/3/11 3:48 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:
 Dear list,

 Trass3r brought it up and I think it's a very good idea. D is lacking
 some man power. The mentoring deadline is 11th of March. There are
 important and interesting projects students may work on.

 I'm writing this post seeking answers to
 1. What's the "official" D stand on this matter?
 2. Are there already students who have time and would like to join? What
     are you interested in?

 The first question is currently the more important one. The organization
 administrator has to submit an application until the above deadline.
 The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
 would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students
 need to propose/join a project.

 Jens

 PS
 The FAQs on http://code.google.com/soc/ is very helpful.

Thanks for this idea. I plan to submit an organization application. As of now I'm unclear whether Digital Mars would be the best organization to apply, as opposed to an unincorporated "d-programming-language.org" entity. I'll discuss this with Walter. All, please chime in if you have related experience. We have a number of good projects to work on: * XML library * Networking library * IDE * Lexer/parser generator * Containers * Encryption/hashing * Thrift bindings * ... Andrei
Mar 03 2011
next sibling parent bioinfornatics <bioinfornatics gmail.com> writes:
about lexer/parser for ide i know geany a powerful IDE and it is very easy to
enable autocompletion for D and any D library you need just generate tag file
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/3/11 12:00 PM, Regan Heath wrote:
 On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:17:26 -0000, Andrei Alexandrescu
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:
 We have a number of good projects to work on:

 * XML library

 * Networking library

 * IDE

 * Lexer/parser generator

 * Containers

 * Encryption/hashing

I wrote some of these a few years back in D, and they were incorporated into Tango. If I can find the original source I wrote, I will glady donate it to whomever wants to make it current/fit into the std library.. if that's what you're after. Regan

Would be great if you submitted such to Phobos. Andrei
Mar 03 2011
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
Regan Heath wrote:
 Ok, found the original code.  How do I go about submitting it to phobos?

Thanks! I suggest: 1. Join the phobos mailing list 2. Propose package and module names 3. Fork https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos 4. Check your original code into your fork under those package and module names 5. Develop them! 6. Issue pull requests I'm a newbie with github, but I think that is the correct workflow. Correct me if I'm wrong!
Mar 03 2011
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/3/11 2:08 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 Regan Heath wrote:
 Ok, found the original code. How do I go about submitting it to phobos?

Thanks! I suggest: 1. Join the phobos mailing list 2. Propose package and module names 3. Fork https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos 4. Check your original code into your fork under those package and module names 5. Develop them! 6. Issue pull requests I'm a newbie with github, but I think that is the correct workflow. Correct me if I'm wrong!

That's the technical part of it. The bulk of the process is making a proposal on this group and having the design, implementation, and documentation discussed and improved following feedback. If Regan does not have the time to commit to such, he could donate the code to someone else to take it through this process. Alternatively, if some components are small enough and of obvious value they can be adopted without going through a stringent process. What definitely doesn't scale is Phobos acquiring unfinished pieces of functionality, knocking them into shape, and subsequently maintaining them. (Of course, it could happen that someone on the Phobos team does that, but by doing so the member becomes the virtual owner of that functionality.) Andrei
Mar 03 2011
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> wrote in message 
news:op.vrvpztmj54xghj regan-pc...
 On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:19:52 -0000, Andrei Alexandrescu 
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 On 3/3/11 2:08 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 Regan Heath wrote:
 Ok, found the original code. How do I go about submitting it to phobos?

Thanks! I suggest: 1. Join the phobos mailing list 2. Propose package and module names 3. Fork https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos 4. Check your original code into your fork under those package and module names 5. Develop them! 6. Issue pull requests I'm a newbie with github, but I think that is the correct workflow. Correct me if I'm wrong!

That's the technical part of it. The bulk of the process is making a proposal on this group and having the design, implementation, and documentation discussed and improved following feedback. If Regan does not have the time to commit to such, he could donate the code to someone else to take it through this process. Alternatively, if some components are small enough and of obvious value they can be adopted without going through a stringent process. What definitely doesn't scale is Phobos acquiring unfinished pieces of functionality, knocking them into shape, and subsequently maintaining them. (Of course, it could happen that someone on the Phobos team does that, but by doing so the member becomes the virtual owner of that functionality.)

Ok.. I am on windows. So, I installed TortoiseGIT and msysgit 1.7.4. Then I worked on the original code, make it compile with the latest D compiler, fixed some big endian issues which were known but never accounted for in the original code, fixed a bug where I was passing a uint[8] and expecting modification to stick, whereas it now requires 'ref' then I started adding comments for ddoc .. and ran into: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5701 I thought perhaps I could resolve it myself by rebuilding druntime+phobos, and when that made no difference I rebuilt dmd.. also to no avail. I guess I can downgrade to a previous version and try that, but I have no guarantee that will work. It's a bit annoying. Anyway, assuming I have some code and some documentation do I just start a new thread here and ask for comments?

It's an unintentionally well-kept secret that builing docs needs to be done as a separate step from actual compiling (due to version(DDOC) tricks).
Mar 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply jasonw <user webmails.org> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:

 On 3/3/11 3:48 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:
 Dear list,

 Trass3r brought it up and I think it's a very good idea. D is lacking
 some man power. The mentoring deadline is 11th of March. There are
 important and interesting projects students may work on.

 I'm writing this post seeking answers to
 1. What's the "official" D stand on this matter?
 2. Are there already students who have time and would like to join? What
     are you interested in?

 The first question is currently the more important one. The organization
 administrator has to submit an application until the above deadline.
 The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
 would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students
 need to propose/join a project.

 Jens

 PS
 The FAQs on http://code.google.com/soc/ is very helpful.

Thanks for this idea. I plan to submit an organization application. As of now I'm unclear whether Digital Mars would be the best organization to apply, as opposed to an unincorporated "d-programming-language.org" entity. I'll discuss this with Walter. All, please chime in if you have related experience. We have a number of good projects to work on: * XML library * Networking library * IDE * Lexer/parser generator * Containers * Encryption/hashing * Thrift bindings

What is Thrift? I read it's a Facebook technology which would benefit your career, not D especially. Not trying to be political, but as we know Facebook and Google are competing enemies. Why do you think Google would support some Facebook project financially? Why not write D-Bus bindings? D-Bus is the de facto protocol on all modern open source operating systems. About as important as COM or CLR. COM is supported by D. Why not D-Bus? D-Bus is politically neutral technology.
Mar 03 2011
next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/3/11 6:10 PM, jasonw wrote:
 Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:

 On 3/3/11 3:48 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:
 Dear list,

 Trass3r brought it up and I think it's a very good idea. D is lacking
 some man power. The mentoring deadline is 11th of March. There are
 important and interesting projects students may work on.

 I'm writing this post seeking answers to
 1. What's the "official" D stand on this matter?
 2. Are there already students who have time and would like to join? What
      are you interested in?

 The first question is currently the more important one. The organization
 administrator has to submit an application until the above deadline.
 The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
 would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students
 need to propose/join a project.

 Jens

 PS
 The FAQs on http://code.google.com/soc/ is very helpful.

Thanks for this idea. I plan to submit an organization application. As of now I'm unclear whether Digital Mars would be the best organization to apply, as opposed to an unincorporated "d-programming-language.org" entity. I'll discuss this with Walter. All, please chime in if you have related experience. We have a number of good projects to work on: * XML library * Networking library * IDE * Lexer/parser generator * Containers * Encryption/hashing * Thrift bindings

What is Thrift? I read it's a Facebook technology which would benefit your career, not D especially.

(Not speaking on behalf of Facebook.) That's not reading, it's reading plus speculating. Also, there are two mistakes. One, Thrift is an open source technology used outside Facebook. Second, with me on board, Facebook is possibly more likely than other influential companies to try out D. If Facebook does start using D systematically (and availability of Thrift bindings is an essential ingredient), then a lot of companies will take notice.
 Not trying to be political, but as we
 know Facebook and Google are competing enemies. Why do you think
 Google would support some Facebook project financially?

I don't think they'd put things that way, but then I don't know.
 Why not write D-Bus bindings? D-Bus is the de facto protocol on all
 modern open source operating systems. About as important as COM or
 CLR. COM is supported by D. Why not D-Bus? D-Bus is politically
 neutral technology.

As long as we're just enumerating possible projects, sure. Andrei
Mar 03 2011
parent %u <wfunction hotmail.com> writes:
 Thanks for this idea. I plan to submit an organization application. As of now
I'm

an unincorporated "d-programming-language.org" entity. I'll discuss this with Walter. All, please chime in if you have related experience.
 We have a number of good projects to work on:
 * XML library
 * Networking library
 * IDE
 * Lexer/parser generator
 * Containers
 * Encryption/hashing
 * Thrift bindings

OMG sooo exciting! I'm currently a CS student and I've applied to a few places for the summer, and this /definitely/ sounds interesting for me, and I'd love to help make D better (and of course, learn more about compilers in the process)! If this catches on I'd be really interested in it. :)
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 04/03/2011 00:10, jasonw wrote:
 Not trying to be political, but as we know Facebook and Google are competing
enemies. Why do you think Google would support some Facebook project
financially?

Competing? Yes a little bit. Enemies? Hum, I wouldn't put it that way, maybe rivals is a better term. It's not like Facebook is Oracle, for which there is a true, much more substantial animosity. In any case, it's the projects themselves that matter, and if they are open source and popular enough, that's what matters. And proof of that is that Facebook was indeed accepted for last years GSoC, and had 6 accepted projects. -- Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-03-03 17:17, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 3/3/11 3:48 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:
 Dear list,

 Trass3r brought it up and I think it's a very good idea. D is lacking
 some man power. The mentoring deadline is 11th of March. There are
 important and interesting projects students may work on.

 I'm writing this post seeking answers to
 1. What's the "official" D stand on this matter?
 2. Are there already students who have time and would like to join? What
 are you interested in?

 The first question is currently the more important one. The organization
 administrator has to submit an application until the above deadline.
 The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
 would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students
 need to propose/join a project.

 Jens

 PS
 The FAQs on http://code.google.com/soc/ is very helpful.

Thanks for this idea. I plan to submit an organization application. As of now I'm unclear whether Digital Mars would be the best organization to apply, as opposed to an unincorporated "d-programming-language.org" entity. I'll discuss this with Walter. All, please chime in if you have related experience. We have a number of good projects to work on: * XML library * Networking library * IDE * Lexer/parser generator * Containers * Encryption/hashing * Thrift bindings * ... Andrei

Working on some GUI library. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Mar 04 2011
prev sibling parent reply Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 03/03/2011 16:17, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 3/3/11 3:48 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:
 Dear list,

 Trass3r brought it up and I think it's a very good idea. D is lacking
 some man power. The mentoring deadline is 11th of March. There are
 important and interesting projects students may work on.

 I'm writing this post seeking answers to
 1. What's the "official" D stand on this matter?
 2. Are there already students who have time and would like to join? What
 are you interested in?

 The first question is currently the more important one. The organization
 administrator has to submit an application until the above deadline.
 The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
 would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students
 need to propose/join a project.

 Jens

 PS
 The FAQs on http://code.google.com/soc/ is very helpful.

Thanks for this idea. I plan to submit an organization application. As of now I'm unclear whether Digital Mars would be the best organization to apply, as opposed to an unincorporated "d-programming-language.org" entity. I'll discuss this with Walter. All, please chime in if you have related experience. We have a number of good projects to work on: * XML library * Networking library * IDE * Lexer/parser generator * Containers * Encryption/hashing * Thrift bindings * ... Andrei

This would be great indeed, to have some help from Google Summer of Code, but I fear it might be difficult to get ourselves accepted as a mentoring organization. I did apply to GSoC once, as a student, in 2006, but this was a year where they allowed applications without a mentoring organization (although you would still need a mentoring individual). It was the last year they allowed that though (as well as the students themselves defining the proposal). We might try something like this: "Tcl/Tk Community" - http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2010/tcltk as it would be an accurate representation of what a D mentoring organization could be... we are "only" a community right now, there is no formal organization, nor do we represent a single project like some other organizations do. But the Google guys are smart, and if we can demonstrate wide enough interest in our open-source projects, that should be enough. Not an easy thing given D's current popularity, but still, definitely worth a try. -- Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Mar 08 2011
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 3/8/11 1:23 PM, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
 We might try something like this: "Tcl/Tk Community" -
 http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2010/tcltk as it
 would be an accurate representation of what a D mentoring organization
 could be... we are "only" a community right now, there is no formal
 organization, nor do we represent a single project like some other
 organizations do.

This is incorrect. I applied with Walter's approval and support on behalf of Digital Mars, which is a full-fledged organization. Andrei
Mar 08 2011
parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
On 08/03/2011 21:42, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 3/8/11 1:23 PM, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
 We might try something like this: "Tcl/Tk Community" -
 http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/show/google/gsoc2010/tcltk as it
 would be an accurate representation of what a D mentoring organization
 could be... we are "only" a community right now, there is no formal
 organization, nor do we represent a single project like some other
 organizations do.

This is incorrect. I applied with Walter's approval and support on behalf of Digital Mars, which is a full-fledged organization. Andrei

Ah, yes, Digital Mars is proper organization, no question about it. But like you I also saw it unclear whether that would be the best one to represent D as an open-source mentoring organization, as opposed to a more abstract entity. BTW, I see now your new post about GSoC ideas, I'll add one or two relating to IDE and tools there. -- Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer
Mar 08 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> writes:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:17:26 -0000, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:
 We have a number of good projects to work on:

 * XML library

 * Networking library

 * IDE

 * Lexer/parser generator

 * Containers

 * Encryption/hashing

I wrote some of these a few years back in D, and they were incorporated into Tango. If I can find the original source I wrote, I will glady donate it to whomever wants to make it current/fit into the std library.. if that's what you're after. Regan -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> writes:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 18:00:09 -0000, Regan Heath <regan netmail.co.nz>  
wrote:

 On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:17:26 -0000, Andrei Alexandrescu  
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:
 We have a number of good projects to work on:


 * Encryption/hashing

I wrote some of these a few years back in D, and they were incorporated into Tango. If I can find the original source I wrote, I will glady donate it to whomever wants to make it current/fit into the std library.. if that's what you're after.

Bad form to reply to myself, but I just realised I wasn't at all clear. I mean I wrote some Hashing routines, not the rest of it... now trimmed above. -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> writes:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 18:33:00 -0000, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 On 3/3/11 12:00 PM, Regan Heath wrote:
 On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:17:26 -0000, Andrei Alexandrescu
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:
 We have a number of good projects to work on:

 * XML library

 * Networking library

 * IDE

 * Lexer/parser generator

 * Containers

 * Encryption/hashing

I wrote some of these a few years back in D, and they were incorporated into Tango. If I can find the original source I wrote, I will glady donate it to whomever wants to make it current/fit into the std library.. if that's what you're after. Regan

Would be great if you submitted such to Phobos.

Ok, found the original code. How do I go about submitting it to phobos? It was originally written in 2006 and followed std.md5's pattern of usage at the time. So, it likely needs to be re-worked by someone more familiar with phobos as it is now. -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Jason E. Aten" <j.e.aten gmail.com> writes:
--0016e6d59d66a13698049d9e8bf5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 maybe QtCreator (http://qt.nokia.com/products/developer-tools/)
 (is it LGPL?) can be used as a fork base - so the ide will be
 multi-platform at start

I second the idea of Qt based stuff. Yes, Qt *is now* LGPL. Just a recent release. How awesome is that!?! My other suggestion for GSOC projects is three words: or, actually, three characters: ZeroMQ. That would have *much* broader reach than dbus, if not allow easy tunnelling of dbus between hosts (sweet). Jason On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu < SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:
 On 3/3/11 6:10 PM, jasonw wrote:

 Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:

  On 3/3/11 3:48 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:
 Dear list,

 Trass3r brought it up and I think it's a very good idea. D is lacking
 some man power. The mentoring deadline is 11th of March. There are
 important and interesting projects students may work on.

 I'm writing this post seeking answers to
 1. What's the "official" D stand on this matter?
 2. Are there already students who have time and would like to join? What
     are you interested in?

 The first question is currently the more important one. The organization
 administrator has to submit an application until the above deadline.
 The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
 would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students
 need to propose/join a project.

 Jens

 PS
 The FAQs on http://code.google.com/soc/ is very helpful.

Thanks for this idea. I plan to submit an organization application. As of now I'm unclear whether Digital Mars would be the best organization to apply, as opposed to an unincorporated "d-programming-language.org" entity. I'll discuss this with Walter. All, please chime in if you have related experience. We have a number of good projects to work on: * XML library * Networking library * IDE * Lexer/parser generator * Containers * Encryption/hashing * Thrift bindings

What is Thrift? I read it's a Facebook technology which would benefit your career, not D especially.

(Not speaking on behalf of Facebook.) That's not reading, it's reading plus speculating. Also, there are two mistakes. One, Thrift is an open source technology used outside Facebook. Second, with me on board, Facebook is possibly more likely than other influential companies to try out D. If Facebook does start using D systematically (and availability of Thrift bindings is an essential ingredient), then a lot of companies will take notice. Not trying to be political, but as we
 know Facebook and Google are competing enemies. Why do you think
 Google would support some Facebook project financially?

I don't think they'd put things that way, but then I don't know. Why not write D-Bus bindings? D-Bus is the de facto protocol on all
 modern open source operating systems. About as important as COM or
 CLR. COM is supported by D. Why not D-Bus? D-Bus is politically
 neutral technology.

As long as we're just enumerating possible projects, sure. Andrei

-- Jason E. Aten, Ph.D. --0016e6d59d66a13698049d9e8bf5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(= 204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote">maybe QtCreator (= <a href=3D"http://qt.nokia.com/products/developer-tools/">http://qt.nokia.c= om/products/developer-tools/</a>)<br> (is it LGPL?) can be used as a fork base - so the ide will be <br>multi-pla= tform at start <br></blockquote><br>I second the idea of Qt based stuff.=A0= Yes, Qt *is now* LGPL.=A0 Just a recent release. How awesome is that!?!<br=

three characters:=A0 ZeroMQ.=A0 That would<br>have *much* broader reach tha= n dbus, if not allow easy tunnelling of dbus between hosts (sweet).<br><br>= Jason<br> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Andrei Alexa= ndrescu <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.o= rg">SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas= s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px soli= d rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> <div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">On 3/3/11 6:10 PM, jasonw wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde= r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:<br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde= r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> On 3/3/11 3:48 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde= r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Dear list,<br> <br> Trass3r brought it up and I think it&#39;s a very good idea. D is lacking<b= r> some man power. The mentoring deadline is 11th of March. There are<br> important and interesting projects students may work on.<br> <br> I&#39;m writing this post seeking answers to<br> 1. What&#39;s the &quot;official&quot; D stand on this matter?<br> 2. Are there already students who have time and would like to join? What<br=

<br> The first question is currently the more important one. The organization<br=

The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it<br> would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on students<br> need to propose/join a project.<br> <br> Jens<br> <br> PS<br> The FAQs on <a href=3D"http://code.google.com/soc/" target=3D"_blank">http:= //code.google.com/soc/</a> is very helpful.<br> </blockquote> <br> Thanks for this idea. I plan to submit an organization application. As<br> of now I&#39;m unclear whether Digital Mars would be the best organization<= br> to apply, as opposed to an unincorporated &quot;<a href=3D"http://d-program= ming-language.org" target=3D"_blank">d-programming-language.org</a>&quot;<b= r> entity. I&#39;ll discuss this with Walter. All, please chime in if you have= <br> related experience.<br> <br> We have a number of good projects to work on:<br> <br> * XML library<br> <br> * Networking library<br> <br> * IDE<br> <br> * Lexer/parser generator<br> <br> * Containers<br> <br> * Encryption/hashing<br> <br> * Thrift bindings<br> </blockquote> <br> What is Thrift? I read it&#39;s a Facebook technology which would benefit<b= r> your career, not D especially.<br> </blockquote> <br></div></div> (Not speaking on behalf of Facebook.) That&#39;s not reading, it&#39;s read= ing plus speculating. Also, there are two mistakes. One, Thrift is an open = source technology used outside Facebook. Second, with me on board, Facebook= is possibly more likely than other influential companies to try out D. If = Facebook does start using D systematically (and availability of Thrift bind= ings is an essential ingredient), then a lot of companies will take notice.= <div class=3D"im"> <br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde= r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Not trying to be political, but as we<br> know Facebook and Google are competing enemies. Why do you think<br> Google would support some Facebook project financially?<br> </blockquote> <br></div> I don&#39;t think they&#39;d put things that way, but then I don&#39;t know= .<div class=3D"im"><br> <br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde= r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> Why not write D-Bus bindings? D-Bus is the de facto protocol on all<br> modern open source operating systems. About as important as COM or<br> CLR. COM is supported by D. Why not D-Bus? D-Bus is politically<br> neutral technology.<br> </blockquote> <br></div> As long as we&#39;re just enumerating possible projects, sure.<br><font col= or=3D"#888888"> <br> <br> Andrei<br> </font></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Jason E. Aten, P= h.D.<br><br><br> --0016e6d59d66a13698049d9e8bf5--
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrew Wiley <debio264 gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 6:10 PM, jasonw <user webmails.org> wrote:
 Andrei Alexandrescu Wrote:

 On 3/3/11 3:48 AM, Jens Mueller wrote:
 Dear list,

 Trass3r brought it up and I think it's a very good idea. D is lacking
 some man power. The mentoring deadline is 11th of March. There are
 important and interesting projects students may work on.

 I'm writing this post seeking answers to
 1. What's the "official" D stand on this matter?
 2. Are there already students who have time and would like to join? Wh=



 =A0 =A0 are you interested in?

 The first question is currently the more important one. The organizati=



 administrator has to submit an application until the above deadline.
 The purpose of the second question is to get some feedback whether it
 would be worthwhile to submit an application. Because later on student=



 need to propose/join a project.

 Jens

 PS
 The FAQs on http://code.google.com/soc/ is very helpful.

Thanks for this idea. I plan to submit an organization application. As of now I'm unclear whether Digital Mars would be the best organization to apply, as opposed to an unincorporated "d-programming-language.org" entity. I'll discuss this with Walter. All, please chime in if you have related experience. We have a number of good projects to work on: * XML library * Networking library * IDE * Lexer/parser generator * Containers * Encryption/hashing * Thrift bindings

What is Thrift? I read it's a Facebook technology which would benefit you=

book and Google are competing enemies. Why do you think Google would suppor= t some Facebook project financially? Actually, it's Apache Thrift. Facebook uses it heavily and did the initial development, but it's now an Apache project.
 Why not write D-Bus bindings? D-Bus is the de facto protocol on all moder=

upported by D. Why not D-Bus? D-Bus is politically neutral technology. Politically neutral, but almost exclusive to Linux. I won't deny that it would be useful, but D-Bus is useful for Linux desktop applications and little else.
Mar 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
Here's another idea:
D syntax highlighter for Gmail.

Either as a Gmail plugin (can you even write those or is this only
available to the Gmail team?), or as a Greasemonkey script. There's a
C++ greasemonkey script here: http://userscripts.org/topics/1443 .

Black on white code is hard to read, especially when there's templates involved.
Mar 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 3/5/11, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> wrote:
 Here's another idea:
 D syntax highlighter for Gmail.

 Either as a Gmail plugin (can you even write those or is this only
 available to the Gmail team?), or as a Greasemonkey script. There's a
 C++ greasemonkey script here: http://userscripts.org/topics/1443 .

 Black on white code is hard to read, especially when there's templates
 involved.

Oh I've just realized I've linked to a discussion page, not a script page. Here's one: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/7982
Mar 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> writes:
On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:19:52 -0000, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 On 3/3/11 2:08 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 Regan Heath wrote:
 Ok, found the original code. How do I go about submitting it to phobos?

Thanks! I suggest: 1. Join the phobos mailing list 2. Propose package and module names 3. Fork https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos 4. Check your original code into your fork under those package and module names 5. Develop them! 6. Issue pull requests I'm a newbie with github, but I think that is the correct workflow. Correct me if I'm wrong!

That's the technical part of it. The bulk of the process is making a proposal on this group and having the design, implementation, and documentation discussed and improved following feedback. If Regan does not have the time to commit to such, he could donate the code to someone else to take it through this process. Alternatively, if some components are small enough and of obvious value they can be adopted without going through a stringent process. What definitely doesn't scale is Phobos acquiring unfinished pieces of functionality, knocking them into shape, and subsequently maintaining them. (Of course, it could happen that someone on the Phobos team does that, but by doing so the member becomes the virtual owner of that functionality.)

Ok.. I am on windows. So, I installed TortoiseGIT and msysgit 1.7.4. Then I worked on the original code, make it compile with the latest D compiler, fixed some big endian issues which were known but never accounted for in the original code, fixed a bug where I was passing a uint[8] and expecting modification to stick, whereas it now requires 'ref' then I started adding comments for ddoc .. and ran into: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5701 I thought perhaps I could resolve it myself by rebuilding druntime+phobos, and when that made no difference I rebuilt dmd.. also to no avail. I guess I can downgrade to a previous version and try that, but I have no guarantee that will work. It's a bit annoying. Anyway, assuming I have some code and some documentation do I just start a new thread here and ask for comments? I do currently have the spare time to whip these modules into shape, but I cannot guarantee I will have the time to maintain them indefinitely if that is required? R -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Mar 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Saturday 05 March 2011 13:06:24 Nick Sabalausky wrote:
 "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> wrote in message
 news:op.vrvpztmj54xghj regan-pc...
 
 On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:19:52 -0000, Andrei Alexandrescu
 
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:
 On 3/3/11 2:08 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 Regan Heath wrote:
 Ok, found the original code. How do I go about submitting it to
 phobos?

Thanks! I suggest: 1. Join the phobos mailing list 2. Propose package and module names 3. Fork https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos 4. Check your original code into your fork under those package and module names 5. Develop them! 6. Issue pull requests I'm a newbie with github, but I think that is the correct workflow. Correct me if I'm wrong!

That's the technical part of it. The bulk of the process is making a proposal on this group and having the design, implementation, and documentation discussed and improved following feedback. If Regan does not have the time to commit to such, he could donate the code to someone else to take it through this process. Alternatively, if some components are small enough and of obvious value they can be adopted without going through a stringent process. What definitely doesn't scale is Phobos acquiring unfinished pieces of functionality, knocking them into shape, and subsequently maintaining them. (Of course, it could happen that someone on the Phobos team does that, but by doing so the member becomes the virtual owner of that functionality.)

Ok.. I am on windows. So, I installed TortoiseGIT and msysgit 1.7.4. Then I worked on the original code, make it compile with the latest D compiler, fixed some big endian issues which were known but never accounted for in the original code, fixed a bug where I was passing a uint[8] and expecting modification to stick, whereas it now requires 'ref' then I started adding comments for ddoc .. and ran into: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5701 I thought perhaps I could resolve it myself by rebuilding druntime+phobos, and when that made no difference I rebuilt dmd.. also to no avail. I guess I can downgrade to a previous version and try that, but I have no guarantee that will work. It's a bit annoying. Anyway, assuming I have some code and some documentation do I just start a new thread here and ask for comments?

It's an unintentionally well-kept secret that builing docs needs to be done as a separate step from actual compiling (due to version(DDOC) tricks).

Yes. For a variety of reasons, some code _must_ have a separate version for the documentation. Phobos has done this for a while, I think, but the amount that it's being done has bee increasing, making the odds of running into it higher. With the next release, Phobos should be using version(StdDoc) to version its documentation instead of the standard version(D_Ddoc), so building with -D will work for user code again as long as that user code doesn't need to use version(D_Ddoc) in a manner which results in unlinkable code. However, druntime and Phobos will continue to have their documentation built separately from their normal builds, and until the next release, user code will (under some circumstances) have to be built without -D if you want it to link. Personally, I voted for -D not resulting in valid code at all so that it would just be blindingly clear that -D shouldn't be done at the same time as code generation (kind of like -cov or -unittest, though you do actually run the code with those - it's just not exactly normal code). But it was decided that enough people wanted to generate documentation at the same time that they generate code (without recompiling) and few enough people will have to have version(D_Ddoc) blocks which result in unlinkable code that it was better to make it so that Phobos and druntime used a different symbol for versioning documenation. It just wasn't done in time for the release (and actually Andrei's pull request which does it hasn't been pulled in yet, since he has other changes that need to be made to it before it gets pulled in, so the git version still uses version(D_Ddoc); it won't by the next release though). So, for the current release, it's not a good idea to use -D when compiling actual code (and if you ever use version(D_Ddoc) yourself, it won't be a good idea ever), but that will be fixed by the next release. In the meantime, you can just skip using -D except when you're specifically generating documentation. - Jonathan M Davis
Mar 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> writes:
On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 21:40:47 -0000, Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com>  
wrote:

 So, for the current release, it's not a good idea to use -D when  
 compiling
 actual code (and if you ever use version(D_Ddoc) yourself, it won't be a  
 good
 idea ever), but that will be fixed by the next release. In the meantime,  
 you can
 just skip using -D except when you're specifically generating  
 documentation.

So.. assuming I'm using visual studio and visual D and want documentation I need to add a post-build step, or custom build action on all my source files to execute dmd -D on them? one at a time? -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Mar 07 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On Monday 07 March 2011 02:03:15 Regan Heath wrote:
 On Sat, 05 Mar 2011 21:40:47 -0000, Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com>
 
 wrote:
 So, for the current release, it's not a good idea to use -D when
 compiling
 actual code (and if you ever use version(D_Ddoc) yourself, it won't be a
 good
 idea ever), but that will be fixed by the next release. In the meantime,
 you can
 just skip using -D except when you're specifically generating
 documentation.

So.. assuming I'm using visual studio and visual D and want documentation I need to add a post-build step, or custom build action on all my source files to execute dmd -D on them? one at a time?

I don't know what the deal with visual D is. However, in addition to building documentation, -D enables version(D_Ddoc), and like any other version statement, that can totally change what code is created. In a number of cases, versioning documentation with a declared but undefined function (so no body) is necessary (for instance, if it's only one OS). Various Phobos developers quite correctly used version(D_Ddoc) for this (that's what it's for). However, this means that you _cannot_ use -D for a normal build, because in any case that version(D_Ddoc) was used, there's a high chance that it will result in unlinkable code. So, you have to build your documentation as a separate build. Andrei decided that it was not reasonable to require that -D _have_ to be done in a separate build for your average program, so druntime and Phobos will be switching to using version(StdDoc) to version the documentation (using - version=StdDoc as part of the build target which builds the docs for the std libs), and that will be in by the next release. However, in the interim (and permanently for any code which uses version(D_Ddoc)), you'll likely need to do - D in a separate build if you want your code to work correctly. How that relates to visual D, I have no idea. I've never used it. - Jonathan M Davis
Mar 07 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> writes:
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:45:52 -0000, Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com>  
wrote:
 Andrei decided that it was not reasonable to require that -D _have_ to  
 be done
 in a separate build for your average program, so druntime and Phobos  
 will be
 switching to using version(StdDoc) to version the documentation (using -
 version=StdDoc as part of the build target which builds the docs for the  
 std
 libs), and that will be in by the next release. However, in the interim  
 (and
 permanently for any code which uses version(D_Ddoc)), you'll likely need  
 to do -
 D in a separate build if you want your code to work correctly.

 How that relates to visual D, I have no idea. I've never used it.

As it turns out Visual D doesn't seem to allow me to define a custom build rule per-file. It appears I can only define a rule per-project. So, I created a script which iterated my source and called dmd -D -o- -c on each :) -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Mar 07 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
 As it turns out Visual D doesn't seem to allow me to define a custom  
 build rule per-file.  It appears I can only define a rule per-project.

Report it ;)
Mar 07 2011
prev sibling parent "Regan Heath" <regan netmail.co.nz> writes:
On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:31:35 -0000, Trass3r <un known.com> wrote:

 As it turns out Visual D doesn't seem to allow me to define a custom  
 build rule per-file.  It appears I can only define a rule per-project.

Report it ;)

Will do.. I just wish dsource was a bit more responsive .. it seems to crawl most of the time I try to use it. -- Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Mar 08 2011