www.digitalmars.com         C & C++   DMDScript  

digitalmars.D - From r/linux: Which language should i use/learn ?

reply Basile B. <b2.temp gmx.com> writes:
So I've proposed D

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5hiva7/which_language_should_i_uselearn/db0mvy1/

And I've hit a Rust user. The punch is

https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/5h0s2n/what_made_rust_more_popular_than_d/dawqu9i/

Fell free to contribute on reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5hiva7/which_language_should_i_uselearn/
Dec 10 2016
next sibling parent reply Basile B. <b2.temp gmx.com> writes:
On Saturday, 10 December 2016 at 16:09:53 UTC, Basile B. wrote:
 So I've proposed D

 https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5hiva7/which_language_should_i_uselearn/db0mvy1/

 And I've hit a Rust user. The punch is

 https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/5h0s2n/what_made_rust_more_popular_than_d/dawqu9i/

 Fell free to contribute on reddit

 https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5hiva7/which_language_should_i_uselearn/
The second link should be https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/5h0s2n/what_made_rust_more_popular_than_d/ the one i put in first post is only a comment, in case you dont know reddit yet.
Dec 10 2016
next sibling parent reply bachmeier <no spam.net> writes:
On Saturday, 10 December 2016 at 16:16:54 UTC, Basile B. wrote:
 On Saturday, 10 December 2016 at 16:09:53 UTC, Basile B. wrote:
 So I've proposed D

 https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5hiva7/which_language_should_i_uselearn/db0mvy1/

 And I've hit a Rust user. The punch is

 https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/5h0s2n/what_made_rust_more_popular_than_d/dawqu9i/

 Fell free to contribute on reddit

 https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5hiva7/which_language_should_i_uselearn/
The second link should be https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/5h0s2n/what_made_rust_more_popular_than_d/ the one i put in first post is only a comment, in case you dont know reddit yet.
Funny when I read comments about how Rust is popular. Confusing HN and Reddit upvotes with use. How much large enterprise use of Rust is there? Just a guess that it's still rounding error in the measurement of Java and C++ usage.
Dec 10 2016
parent Basile B. <b2.temp gmx.com> writes:
On Saturday, 10 December 2016 at 16:59:31 UTC, bachmeier wrote:
 On Saturday, 10 December 2016 at 16:16:54 UTC, Basile B. wrote:
 On Saturday, 10 December 2016 at 16:09:53 UTC, Basile B. wrote:
 So I've proposed D

 https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5hiva7/which_language_should_i_uselearn/db0mvy1/

 And I've hit a Rust user. The punch is

 https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/5h0s2n/what_made_rust_more_popular_than_d/dawqu9i/

 Fell free to contribute on reddit

 https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5hiva7/which_language_should_i_uselearn/
The second link should be https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/5h0s2n/what_made_rust_more_popular_than_d/ the one i put in first post is only a comment, in case you dont know reddit yet.
Funny when I read comments about how Rust is popular. Confusing HN and Reddit upvotes with use. How much large enterprise use of Rust is there? Just a guess that it's still rounding error in the measurement of Java and C++ usage.
The must funny thing is that the guy who gets the most upvotes for this on r/rust is a pythonist: https://www.reddit.com/user/K900_ .No joke you go back in his history up to 1800 comments they are are still in: https://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/
Dec 10 2016
prev sibling parent reply Chris Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
It's always a bit weird when people talk about "resources" as a 
unification of memory, files, sockets, etc. My programs exist to fill 
memory and then push bits of memory around. At least 99% of my "resource" 
usage is heap objects. If it gets slightly harder to deal with memory but 
utterly trivial to deal with every other type of resource, that's a net 
loss.
Dec 10 2016
parent reply sarn <sarn theartofmachinery.com> writes:
On Saturday, 10 December 2016 at 22:55:22 UTC, Chris Wright wrote:
 It's always a bit weird when people talk about "resources" as a 
 unification of memory, files, sockets, etc. My programs exist 
 to fill memory and then push bits of memory around. At least 
 99% of my "resource" usage is heap objects. If it gets slightly 
 harder to deal with memory but utterly trivial to deal with 
 every other type of resource, that's a net loss.
But if your performance is hosed because you're leaking database connections, "99% of your resources" being heap objects means absolutely nothing.
Dec 11 2016
parent reply Chris Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 22:47:21 +0000, sarn wrote:

 On Saturday, 10 December 2016 at 22:55:22 UTC, Chris Wright wrote:
 It's always a bit weird when people talk about "resources" as a
 unification of memory, files, sockets, etc. My programs exist to fill
 memory and then push bits of memory around. At least 99% of my
 "resource" usage is heap objects. If it gets slightly harder to deal
 with memory but utterly trivial to deal with every other type of
 resource, that's a net loss.
But if your performance is hosed because you're leaking database connections, "99% of your resources" being heap objects means absolutely nothing.
Okay, and D gives me sufficient tools to not leak database connections under typical workflows. So does C#. So does Python. So does Java, these days. The last time it's been even vaguely annoying for me was with nodejs, thanks to callback hell, and even then it was only an annoyance. The only type of resource I have to deal with that isn't a database connection or memory is a socket. They don't go out of scope before they're closed. Ever. So that automatic resource cleanup stuff doesn't even help there. My handling of non-memory resources that require any sort of cleanup takes up like 3% of my code, constrained to two files. (I measured.) So it's going to be right quick for me to isolate any problems. Rust is a solution to a problem that's already solved, as far as I'm concerned. If I had a significantly different use case, I might see more benefit, but at present I don't.
Dec 11 2016
parent =?UTF-8?Q?Tobias=20M=C3=BCller?= <troplin bluewin.ch> writes:
Chris Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> wrote:
 Okay, and D gives me sufficient tools to not leak database connections 
 under typical workflows. So does C#. So does Python. So does Java, these 
 days. The last time it's been even vaguely annoying for me was with 
 nodejs, thanks to callback hell, and even then it was only an annoyance.
TBH, IDisposable/AutoClosable is just a PITA. It's like going back to manual memory management and doesn't work at all for shared ownership.
 The only type of resource I have to deal with that isn't a database 
 connection or memory is a socket. They don't go out of scope before 
 they're closed. Ever. So that automatic resource cleanup stuff doesn't 
 even help there.
Another kind is wrapping non-threadsafe FFI object structures, which are actually also memory. Because of finalizers running in a different thread, you cannot just rely on the GC but have to make everything either synchronized or IDisposable (or a combination thereof). It's not impossible but requires some serious thought and overhead.
 My handling of non-memory resources that require any sort of cleanup 
 takes up like 3% of my code, constrained to two files. (I measured.) So  
 it's going to be right quick for me to isolate any problems.
The problem is not where the code is written but where it is used (transitively). Tools like IDisposable are contagious and infect everything that's using it.
Dec 11 2016
prev sibling parent eugene <egordeev18 gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 10 December 2016 at 16:09:53 UTC, Basile B. wrote:

 And I've hit a Rust user.
why did you do that?
Dec 12 2016