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digitalmars.D - Download page and D docs defaulting to D2

reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <kb3ctd2 yahoo.com> writes:
I've had about eight people come into the D IRC channel in the past week 
asking why xxx was failing, or why something they thought should work 
(constness) didn't.  In every single case, it was either because they read 
the D2 docs, which are the default (FOR SOME REASON), and ended up 
downloading the D1 compiler, or because they downloaded the ancient 1.015 D1 
compiler which didn't have any bugfixes which have been implemented over the 
past seven months.

So; this is really starting to come to a head.  I don't know how many people 
have suggested switching the default D docs to the D1 docs.  D2 is _alpha_ 
and should be treated as such.  We _need_ to get this resolved.

Secondly, the D1 DMD D compiler download page 
(http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/dcompiler.html) should be updated to point 
to the very newest version of the D compiler, or those hardlinks should be 
removed entirely and simply redirected to the changelog, which is far more 
up-to-date and lets people know what's been fixed. 
Jan 29 2008
next sibling parent Dan <murpsoft hotmail.com> writes:
*signs petition*
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Bill Baxter <dnewsgroup billbaxter.com> writes:
*boycot digitalmars.D till it's fixed?*
Jan 29 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Pablo Ripollles <in-call gmx.net> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley Wrote:

 I've had about eight people come into the D IRC channel in the past week 
 asking why xxx was failing, or why something they thought should work 
 (constness) didn't.  In every single case, it was either because they read 
 the D2 docs, which are the default (FOR SOME REASON), and ended up 
 downloading the D1 compiler, or because they downloaded the ancient 1.015 D1 
 compiler which didn't have any bugfixes which have been implemented over the 
 past seven months.
 
 So; this is really starting to come to a head.  I don't know how many people 
 have suggested switching the default D docs to the D1 docs.  D2 is _alpha_ 
 and should be treated as such.  We _need_ to get this resolved.
 
 Secondly, the D1 DMD D compiler download page 
 (http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/dcompiler.html) should be updated to point 
 to the very newest version of the D compiler, or those hardlinks should be 
 removed entirely and simply redirected to the changelog, which is far more 
 up-to-date and lets people know what's been fixed. 
 

yes, and in the same vein, why the new book 'Learn to Tango with D', which is D1, is only announced on the D2 front page? cheers!
Jan 30 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Tom S <h3r3tic remove.mat.uni.torun.pl> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley wrote:
 I've had about eight people come into the D IRC channel in the past week 
 asking why xxx was failing, or why something they thought should work 
 (constness) didn't.  In every single case, it was either because they read 
 the D2 docs, which are the default (FOR SOME REASON), and ended up 
 downloading the D1 compiler, or because they downloaded the ancient 1.015 D1 
 compiler which didn't have any bugfixes which have been implemented over the 
 past seven months.
 
 So; this is really starting to come to a head.  I don't know how many people 
 have suggested switching the default D docs to the D1 docs.  D2 is _alpha_ 
 and should be treated as such.  We _need_ to get this resolved.
 
 Secondly, the D1 DMD D compiler download page 
 (http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/dcompiler.html) should be updated to point 
 to the very newest version of the D compiler, or those hardlinks should be 
 removed entirely and simply redirected to the changelog, which is far more 
 up-to-date and lets people know what's been fixed. 

++votes; -- Tomasz Stachowiak http://h3.team0xf.com/ h3/h3r3tic on #D freenode
Jan 30 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply jcc7 <technocrat7 gmail.com> writes:
== Quote from Jarrett Billingsley (kb3ctd2 yahoo.com)'s article
 I've had about eight people come into the D IRC channel in the past
 week asking why xxx was failing, or why something they thought
 should work (constness) didn't.  In every single case, it was either
 because they read the D2 docs, which are the default (FOR SOME
 REASON), and ended up downloading the D1 compiler, or because they
 downloaded the ancient 1.015 D1 compiler which didn't have any
 bugfixes which have been implemented over the past seven months.

 So; this is really starting to come to a head.  I don't know how
 many people have suggested switching the default D docs to the D1
 docs.  D2 is _alpha_ and should be treated as such.  We _need_ to
 get this resolved.

 Secondly, the D1 DMD D compiler download page
 (http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/dcompiler.html) should be updated
 to point to the very newest version of the D compiler, or those
 hardlinks should be removed entirely and simply redirected to the
 changelog, which is far more up-to-date and lets people know what's
 been fixed.

I still agree. D 2.x is different from D 1.x in many non-trivial ways. Many (if not most) projects aren't on the D 2.x bandwagon yet (Tango is an important example of this). In future, I expect that the D 2.x projects will be in the majority but that's months (if not years) away. And there's no reason to push newbies to D 2.x since I'm sure once they start coding, it will lead to much confusion as they realize that most of the example code floating out there is targeted to D 1.x (and earlier). Here are some examples of where this has been discussed before: http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D&article_id=63051 http://www.digitalmars.com/webnews/newsgroups.php?art_group=digitalmars.D&article_id=60812
Jan 30 2008
parent "Janice Caron" <caron800 googlemail.com> writes:
On Jan 30, 2008 1:50 PM, jcc7 <technocrat7 gmail.com> wrote:
 And there's no reason to push newbies to D 2.x since I'm sure once they start
 coding

It was the other way round for me. I saw the docs (for D2) and thought "Oooh - look at all the cool new features!". So I downloaded D, and it didn't work. Turned out it was because I'd downloaded D1. I had to ask on this forum before I could figure out how to download D2 and hence get the cool new features. I'm not to argue "Newbies should get D2". But equally, I think the rule "Newbies should get D1" is just as wrong. Ideally, the front page should explain that there are two versions, and then there should be two links - one taking you to the latest D1 download and docs, the other taking you the latest D2 download and docs. But it helps /nobody/ to have the default docs and the default download be mutually inconsistent!
Jan 30 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Alexander Panek<alexander.panek brainsware.org> writes:
"Jarrett Billingsley" <kb3ctd2 yahoo.com> wrote:
I've had about eight people come into the D IRC channel in the past week 
asking why xxx was failing, or why something they thought should work 
(constness) didn't.  In every single case, it was either because they read 
the D2 docs, which are the default (FOR SOME REASON), and ended up 
downloading the D1 compiler, or because they downloaded the ancient 1.015 D1 
compiler which didn't have any bugfixes which have been implemented over the 
past seven months.

So; this is really starting to come to a head.  I don't know how many people 
have suggested switching the default D docs to the D1 docs.  D2 is _alpha_ 
and should be treated as such.  We _need_ to get this resolved.

Secondly, the D1 DMD D compiler download page 
(http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/dcompiler.html) should be updated to point 
to the very newest version of the D compiler, or those hardlinks should be 
removed entirely and simply redirected to the changelog, which is far more 
up-to-date and lets people know what's been fixed. 

Again: YES PLEASE. I've already made two requests in that regard and both have been pretty much ignored. I don't see any point in distributing an outdated compiler or promotingD 2.x as "current" version. As Jarrett said, it is everything but stable or complete. -- Alexander Panek
Jan 30 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Myron Alexander <no-spam no-spam.zzz> writes:
vote++
Jan 30 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Jesse Phillips <jessekphillips gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:50:01 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

 I've had about eight people come into the D IRC channel in the past week
 asking why xxx was failing, or why something they thought should work
 (constness) didn't.  In every single case, it was either because they
 read the D2 docs, which are the default (FOR SOME REASON), and ended up
 downloading the D1 compiler, or because they downloaded the ancient
 1.015 D1 compiler which didn't have any bugfixes which have been
 implemented over the past seven months.
 
 So; this is really starting to come to a head.  I don't know how many
 people have suggested switching the default D docs to the D1 docs.  D2
 is _alpha_ and should be treated as such.  We _need_ to get this
 resolved.
 
 Secondly, the D1 DMD D compiler download page
 (http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/dcompiler.html) should be updated to
 point to the very newest version of the D compiler, or those hardlinks
 should be removed entirely and simply redirected to the changelog, which
 is far more up-to-date and lets people know what's been fixed.

I'm going to pitch in a vote here too. It really does not make sense.
Jan 30 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent "Simen Kjaeraas" <simen.kjaras gmail.com> writes:
Jarrett Billingsley <kb3ctd2 yahoo.com> wrote:

 I've had about eight people come into the D IRC channel in the past week
 asking why xxx was failing, or why something they thought should work
 (constness) didn't.  In every single case, it was either because they  
 read
 the D2 docs, which are the default (FOR SOME REASON), and ended up
 downloading the D1 compiler, or because they downloaded the ancient  
 1.015 D1
 compiler which didn't have any bugfixes which have been implemented over  
 the
 past seven months.

 So; this is really starting to come to a head.  I don't know how many  
 people
 have suggested switching the default D docs to the D1 docs.  D2 is  
 _alpha_
 and should be treated as such.  We _need_ to get this resolved.

 Secondly, the D1 DMD D compiler download page
 (http://www.digitalmars.com/d/1.0/dcompiler.html) should be updated to  
 point
 to the very newest version of the D compiler, or those hardlinks should  
 be
 removed entirely and simply redirected to the changelog, which is far  
 more
 up-to-date and lets people know what's been fixed.

IM IN YR LOOP UP VOTES!!1 IZ VOTES BIG ENUFF? KTHXBYE IM OUTTA YR LOOP KTHXBYE Like Janice said though, D2 has many exciting features that new users might want to give a try. I'd say D1 default, visible and appropriately labeled D2 links for those who want to live on the cutting edge. -- Simen
Jan 30 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent Brian Hay <bhay construct3d.com> writes:
+1 from me too. D2 as default makes no sense.
Jan 30 2008
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
These issues are fixed. Yay! The obvious links that I can find are, anyway.

It only took the majority of us getting seriously annoyed a handful of 
times and someone taking over the website to make it happen. Next time 
we want something to happen, we just have to come to a consensus and 
then enact a hostile takeover.
Jan 30 2008
parent reply Brian Hay <bhay construct3d.com> writes:
Christopher Wright wrote:
 These issues are fixed. Yay! The obvious links that I can find are, anyway.

Not quite. Everything in the left sidebar still links to D2 by default. There should also be some notice on the new home page that D1 is stable whereas D2 is not. At the moment they aren't differentiated and people will naturally select the D2 link assuming it is better and safe to use.
Jan 31 2008
parent Christopher Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
Brian Hay wrote:
 Christopher Wright wrote:
 These issues are fixed. Yay! The obvious links that I can find are, 
 anyway.

Not quite. Everything in the left sidebar still links to D2 by default. There should also be some notice on the new home page that D1 is stable whereas D2 is not. At the moment they aren't differentiated and people will naturally select the D2 link assuming it is better and safe to use.

Well, yes, and at the very least all the links should specify whether it's D1 or D2. And the download page will make it clear which version to use.
Jan 31 2008
prev sibling parent Tomas Lindquist Olsen <tomas famolsen.dk> writes:
I don't really care what is on the front page as long as it's clear what is
there. ATM it is not.

This is a BIG problem.
Jan 31 2008