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digitalmars.D - D is on his way to Top 20 in Tiobe

reply Ozan <ozan.sueel gmail.com> writes:
Hi, all
the TIOBE Index for December 2015 lists D in rank 23.
Not bad, with room for improvements.

Regards Ozan
Dec 11 2015
next sibling parent reply Joakim <dlang joakim.fea.st> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 12:00:41 UTC, Ozan wrote:
 Hi, all
 the TIOBE Index for December 2015 lists D in rank 23.
 Not bad, with room for improvements.

 Regards Ozan
It's interesting that D dominates Go and Rust on TIOBE, while lagging Swift, but those others seem talked about more on online forums. Btw, D was once in the top 20, only to drop out.
Dec 11 2015
parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/11/2015 4:29 AM, Joakim wrote:
 Btw, D was once in the top 20, only to drop out.
That happened when they changed their ranking algorithm.
Dec 11 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply JohnCK <jck gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 12:00:41 UTC, Ozan wrote:
 the TIOBE Index for December 2015 lists D in rank 23.
You know what: for a language that is about 14 years old I was expecting more by now. I think D maybe lost it momentum, because for what I've been seeing, C++ for example is integrating some D features, other languages are growing[1] like Go or will be used actively like Rust on Servo engine. Unfortunately I think D will remain like a niche. [1] - When I'm say "growing", I'm basing on what I'm seeing on internet. JohnCK.
Dec 11 2015
next sibling parent reply wobbles <grogan.colin gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:32:38 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 12:00:41 UTC, Ozan wrote:
 the TIOBE Index for December 2015 lists D in rank 23.
You know what: for a language that is about 14 years old I was expecting more by now. I think D maybe lost it momentum, because for what I've been seeing, C++ for example is integrating some D features, other languages are growing[1] like Go or will be used actively like Rust on Servo engine. Unfortunately I think D will remain like a niche. [1] - When I'm say "growing", I'm basing on what I'm seeing on internet. JohnCK.
Don't believe everything you read on the internets! :)
Dec 11 2015
next sibling parent reply JohnCK <jck gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:39:10 UTC, wobbles wrote:
 Don't believe everything you read on the internets! :)
I don't but go tell this to every user. :) Matheus.
Dec 11 2015
parent reply Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:05:34 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:39:10 UTC, wobbles wrote:
 Don't believe everything you read on the internets! :)
I don't but go tell this to every user. :)
I use github trending for figuring out where the "open source" trends are: https://github.com/trending?l=d&since=monthly This months top 3: D/PowerNex 29 stars D/DMD 27 stars D/dlangui 13 stars Nim/Nim 69 stars Nim/pymod 32 stars Nim/nimx 7 stars Rust/notty 500 stars Rust/rust 447 stars Rust/leaf 359 stars Go/fasthttp 1288 stars Go/docker 932 stars Go/ vuvuzela 1094 stars C#/OpenLiveWriter 1108 stars C#/Google-play... 417 stars C#/roslyn 309 stars Swift/Perfect 3679 stars Swift/swift-package-manager 2760 stars Swift/netfox 1462 stars C++/swift 22580 stars C++/tensorflow 6357 stars C++/openalpr 1939 stars ... Nim and D seems to be equally popular. Then there is a significant leap to Rust Go seems to be twice as popular as Rust. Swift twice as popular as Go. And C++ twice as popular as Swift. (maybe)
Dec 11 2015
next sibling parent reply Wild <xwildn00bx gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:29:52 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
 I use github trending for figuring out where the "open source" 
 trends are:

 https://github.com/trending?l=d&since=monthly

 This months top 3:

 D/PowerNex 29 stars
 [...]
Wow, I didn't think my kernel would top any list.
Dec 11 2015
parent Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:32:34 UTC, Wild wrote:

 Wow, I didn't think my kernel would top any list.
Take that as a confirmation of project greatness, I would! Seems I forgot Crystal: https://github.com/trending?l=crystal&since=monthly crystal/crystal 210 stars crystal/kemal 97 stars crystal/kamber 71 stars Wow, I didn't know Crystal was doing so well. 30% of Rust. Seems like their Ruby-likeness pays off. Julia is doing well too: julia/julia 233 stars julia/DeepNeuralClassifier 188 stars julia/DSGE.jl 160 stars
Dec 11 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent Vadim Lopatin <coolreader.org gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:29:52 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
 D/PowerNex 29 stars
 D/DMD 27 stars
 D/dlangui 13 stars
Surprised to see dlangui in top.
Dec 11 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply JohnCK <johnck gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:29:52 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:05:34 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:39:10 UTC, wobbles wrote:
 Don't believe everything you read on the internets! :)
I don't but go tell this to every user. :)
I use github trending for figuring out where the "open source" trends are: https://github.com/trending?l=d&since=monthly ...
And there is this site: http://githut.info/ where D is in #39 place of 49 languages. John.
Dec 11 2015
parent reply Ozan <Ozan.sueel gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 04:38:02 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:29:52 UTC, Ola Fosheim And 
 there is this site: http://githut.info/ where D is in #39 place 
 of 49 languages.

 John.
... Where they group CSS, TeX, Matlab, XSlt and other similar together with C, Java and D. (!?) Come on,... for a language with no big company behind, I would congratulate D for his surviving and high ranking. The sad reality is, there are thousands of p-languages with great ideas and people behind but with no chance to reach enough awareness. And true is that D reached the breakpoint to be listed, discussed and used. Xmas greetings, Ozan (what kind of winter is this in Germany? It's sunny with no snow and crispy coldness....)
Dec 11 2015
next sibling parent Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 07:13:37 UTC, Ozan wrote:
 The sad reality is, there are thousands of p-languages with 
 great ideas and people behind but with no chance to reach 
 enough awareness. And true is that D reached the breakpoint to 
 be listed, discussed and used.
That's true. There are other interesting languages that draws less attention than D: Vala/pdfpc 16 stars Vala/corebird 16 stars Vala/vala 7 stars Chapel/chapel 14 stars But as far as I can tell, D is pretty stable. Meaning, it isn't moving much. Crystal appears to be moving. And Nim too.
Dec 12 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply JohnCK <johnck gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 07:13:37 UTC, Ozan wrote:
 ... Where they group CSS, TeX, Matlab, XSlt and other similar 
 together with C,  Java and D. (!?)
Yes, there is a lot of garbage, but you need to filter them too! :)
 Come on,...  for a language with no big company behind, I would 
 congratulate D for his surviving and high ranking.
Sure, I congratulate too, but what I've said is that I think that maybe D lost it's momentum among other languages back then, in fact I think C++ community was aware of this too, and then they started doing all this conferences and being a bit more open-minded, and now there are what I would say "big" competitors like: Go and Rust. JohnCK.
Dec 12 2015
parent reply Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 16:14:34 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 Sure, I congratulate too, but what I've said is that I think 
 that maybe D lost it's momentum among other languages back 
 then, in fact I think C++ community was aware of this too, and 
 then they started doing all this conferences and being a bit 
 more open-minded, and now there are what I would say "big" 
 competitors like: Go and Rust.
Depends on what is meant by momentum, if we mean growth among enthusiasts then I think the above graphs document that D has been on a plateau since early 2013. I'm thinking that maybe the nogc and gc-free focus gained more enthusiasts among the existing D users and perhaps could explain the jump in enthusiasm, but no growth over time. I think Go has experienced both great gains and then significant losses, but I don't think Go affects D much. Rust was also not so attractive in 2013, so it cannot explain the plateau. What might explain that there is neither growth or decline is language complexity. Swift seems to have a strong focus on making the language simpler where they can. A language like Crystal is also very easy to get into for people who know Ruby and want a faster option. Same with Nim and Python perhaps. These have seen some growth right now, despite many alternatives. I think Jonathan Blow's focus on "friction" makes a lot of sense. When you have options, you go for the options with less friction. D has many of downloads, and has more active marketing than Nim and Crystal, but it does not produce more enthusiasts. So apparently newbies hit roadbumps that make the transition newbie -> enthusiast difficult. To get past that you most likely need a language/eco system with less complexity.
Dec 13 2015
parent reply tchaloupka <chalucha gmail.com> writes:
On Sunday, 13 December 2015 at 10:21:17 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
 On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 16:14:34 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 Sure, I congratulate too, but what I've said is that I think 
 that maybe D lost it's momentum among other languages back 
 then, in fact I think C++ community was aware of this too, and 
 then they started doing all this conferences and being a bit 
 more open-minded, and now there are what I would say "big" 
 competitors like: Go and Rust.
Depends on what is meant by momentum, if we mean growth among enthusiasts then I think the above graphs document that D has been on a plateau since early 2013. I'm thinking that maybe the nogc and gc-free focus gained more enthusiasts among the existing D users and perhaps could explain the jump in enthusiasm, but no growth over time. I think Go has experienced both great gains and then significant losses, but I don't think Go affects D much. Rust was also not so attractive in 2013, so it cannot explain the plateau.
Here u go with some comparison charts (stars from github) ;-) D - https://plot.ly/~chalucha/4/stars-vs-month/ Rust - https://plot.ly/~chalucha/32/rust-stars/ Crystal - https://plot.ly/~chalucha/41/crystal-stars/ Nim - https://plot.ly/~chalucha/47/nim-stars/ Go - it has just mirror on github for not so long - not interesting much It seems that all languages gain some momentum in 2013 - maybe also due to github popularity?
Dec 13 2015
parent Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Sunday, 13 December 2015 at 11:02:26 UTC, tchaloupka wrote:
 Here u go with some comparison charts (stars from github) ;-)

 D - https://plot.ly/~chalucha/4/stars-vs-month/
 Rust - https://plot.ly/~chalucha/32/rust-stars/
 Crystal - https://plot.ly/~chalucha/41/crystal-stars/
 Nim - https://plot.ly/~chalucha/47/nim-stars/
 Go - it has just mirror on github for not so long - not 
 interesting much
Thanks! Those were interesting too. So the clear growth in "open source enthusiasm" happend: - Crystal: first half 2015 - Rust: 2013-first half 2015 - Nim: around 2014/2015 - D: no change But all of them might taper off to something stable in last half of 2015? Maybe Swift will steal the thunder from all.
 It seems that all languages gain some momentum in 2013 - maybe 
 also due to github popularity?
Hm. Maybe there was a change in user interface that made the star functionality more visible. If that is the case then D might have been stable for a long time.
Dec 13 2015
prev sibling parent Chris Wright <dhasenan gmail.com> writes:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 07:13:37 +0000, Ozan wrote:

 On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 04:38:02 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:29:52 UTC, Ola Fosheim And there is
 this site: http://githut.info/ where D is in #39 place of 49 languages.

 John.
... Where they group CSS, TeX, Matlab, XSlt and other similar together with C, Java and D. (!?)
They give you the data and you can filter it yourself. I'd count about a dozen languages ahead of D in that ranking that D isn't competing with and probably never will compete with. XSLT and CSS, not a chance. Dart, mostly not. Javascript is still mostly for web browsers -- though it would be interesting to create an HTML API for D and hook up emscripten. Not necessarily *useful*, mind, but interesting all the same.
 Come on,...  for a language with no big company behind, I would
 congratulate D for his surviving and high ranking.
People tend to want to get things done. Corporate support helps me get things done. It also helps with the perception of the language as a serious option. So, yes, congratulations, but I'm still wishing for a large company to throw its weight behind D.
Dec 12 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply rsw0x <anonymous anonymous.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:29:52 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:05:34 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 [...]
I use github trending for figuring out where the "open source" trends are: [...]
Github heavily favors anything related to web programming and is skewed by this. e.g, do you really think Ruby is more popular than C++?
Dec 11 2015
parent reply Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 06:32:11 UTC, rsw0x wrote:
 Github heavily favors anything related to web programming and 
 is skewed by this.
 e.g, do you really think Ruby is more popular than C++?
Not really, but number of projects does not work as a measure of course. By looking at number of stars last month you get the projects that have gotten most attention and makes people excited. I think D has been stable at around 30. Ruby gets a little higher than Go: Ruby/Homebrew 747 stars Ruby/jekyll 515 stars Ruby/fastlane 528 stars Python/letsencrypt 3172 stars Python/acme-tiny 1487 stars Python/spinnaker 1433 stars I think these numbers are reasonable and roughly comparable. What I found interesting is that among the compiled languages that has traction there seems to be exponential stepping between them. Which pretty much confirms the "winner-takes-it-all" aspect of that domain.
Dec 12 2015
parent Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 09:01:02 UTC, Ola Fosheim 
Grøstad wrote:
 Ruby gets a little higher than Go:

 Ruby/Homebrew 747 stars
 Ruby/jekyll 515 stars
 Ruby/fastlane 528 stars
Actually that was wrong, according to this metric Ruby gets in between Rust and Go, which is a bit lower than I would expect. So I don't think one can say it favours Ruby too much.
Dec 12 2015
prev sibling parent reply tchaloupka <chalucha gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:29:52 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
 This months top 3:

 D/PowerNex 29 stars
 D/DMD 27 stars
 D/dlangui 13 stars
Maybe some interesting stats from github: dmd stars: https://plot.ly/~chalucha/4/stars-vs-month dmd forks: https://plot.ly/~chalucha/14/forks-vs-month/
Dec 12 2015
parent reply Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 12:04:47 UTC, tchaloupka wrote:
 dmd stars: https://plot.ly/~chalucha/4/stars-vs-month
Thanks, I love this one. So one might infer that the "engagement level" was steady until the middle of 2012, then a slight drop in last half of 2012 and then a rather steep jump at the beginning of 2013. Since then there has been no change. Is that reasonable? And what happend in the beginning of 2013?
Dec 12 2015
parent Jack Stouffer <jack jackstouffer.com> writes:
On Saturday, 12 December 2015 at 12:17:55 UTC, Ola Fosheim 
Grøstad wrote:
 And what happend in the beginning of 2013?
Walter wrote his popular article on porting DMD to win64 in December 2012 and that version was released shortly after, and in 2013 D promotion got more serious with things like the first major Dconf.
Dec 12 2015
prev sibling parent David DeWitt <dkdewitt gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:39:10 UTC, wobbles wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:32:38 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 12:00:41 UTC, Ozan wrote:
 the TIOBE Index for December 2015 lists D in rank 23.
You know what: for a language that is about 14 years old I was expecting more by now. I think D maybe lost it momentum, because for what I've been seeing, C++ for example is integrating some D features, other languages are growing[1] like Go or will be used actively like Rust on Servo engine. Unfortunately I think D will remain like a niche. [1] - When I'm say "growing", I'm basing on what I'm seeing on internet. JohnCK.
Don't believe everything you read on the internets! :)
"You can't believe everything you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln, 1868
Dec 11 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:32:38 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 You know what: for a language that is about 14 years old I was 
 expecting more by now.
D programmers are too busy being exceedingly productive to brag about how great their language is on reddit every other day :) But the age thing is kinda misleading because D has gone through several major iterations and hasn't had a concerted marketing effort. My amazing novel is like 16 years old now... but nobody has read it because it isn't actually published yet! It is still just going through the process in my brain and amongst a circle of select friends. I said on IRC recently that D has genius programmers in it, but mediocre managers and marketers. I think that has always been true... genius programmers write genius programs, but it is management and marketing that makes something explode in mainstream popularity, just like the greatest novel ever written will never be on the NYT best sellers list until some publisher arranges to sell it to book stores (well, with very rare exceptions). It isn't about features anymore at this point.
Dec 11 2015
next sibling parent JohnCK <jck gmail.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:51:19 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
 ...
 But the age thing is kinda misleading because D has gone 
 through several major iterations and hasn't had a concerted 
 marketing effort
 ...
Well maybe, but you know, C# is about 15 years old and it's in fifth place. Yes, I know... there is a Big corporation behind it and so on. But anyway it's an example. I don't want to be harsh and I hope I'm wrong... but I really think if nothing very very relevant happen in the near future, the trend is that D go down on that list. Matheus.
Dec 11 2015
prev sibling parent rumbu <rumbu rumbu.ro> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:51:19 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:32:38 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 I said on IRC recently that D has genius programmers in it, but 
 mediocre managers and marketers.
Agreed. Don't let Andrei baptise any phobos stuff, he is a genius :)
Dec 11 2015
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Basile B. <b2.temp gmx.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:32:38 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 12:00:41 UTC, Ozan wrote:
 the TIOBE Index for December 2015 lists D in rank 23.
You know what: for a language that is about 14 years old I was expecting more
You know what ? That's this "marginal" / "looser" aspect that led me to D. As for the 14 years, two interesting links: https://web.archive.org/web/20110629120936/http://www.dlang.org/ then https://web.archive.org/web/20111014012905/http://dlang.org/ I'm not from the NG generation, I'm not from the social media generation, I'm between the two. From my point of view it's started in 2011/2012, even if, factually, D is 14 year old.
Dec 11 2015
next sibling parent Daniel Kozak via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
Sames here
Dne 11. 12. 2015 16:25 napsal u=C5=BEivatel "Basile B. via Digitalmars-d" <
digitalmars-d puremagic.com>:

 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:32:38 UTC, JohnCK wrote:

 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 12:00:41 UTC, Ozan wrote:

 the TIOBE Index for December 2015 lists D in rank 23.
You know what: for a language that is about 14 years old I was expecting more
You know what ? That's this "marginal" / "looser" aspect that led me to D=
.
 As for the 14 years, two interesting links:

 https://web.archive.org/web/20110629120936/http://www.dlang.org/

 then

 https://web.archive.org/web/20111014012905/http://dlang.org/

 I'm not from the NG generation, I'm not from the social media generation,
 I'm between the two. From my point of view it's started in 2011/2012, eve=
n
 if, factually, D is 14 year old.
Dec 11 2015
prev sibling parent Ola Fosheim =?UTF-8?B?R3LDuHN0YWQ=?= writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 15:22:11 UTC, Basile B. wrote:
 You know what ? That's this "marginal" / "looser" aspect that 
 led me to D.
I am afraid Go is winning both in the adoption and the looser department, it even has a curated list of articles about how bad it is... https://github.com/ksimka/go-is-not-good
Dec 11 2015
prev sibling parent Jack Stouffer <jack jackstouffer.com> writes:
On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 14:32:38 UTC, JohnCK wrote:
 On Friday, 11 December 2015 at 12:00:41 UTC, Ozan wrote:
 the TIOBE Index for December 2015 lists D in rank 23.
You know what: for a language that is about 14 years old I was expecting more by now.
Python was released in '91 and didn't reach the mainstream until 2004-ish. Ruby was released in '95 and didn't catch mainstream attention until rails was picked up by many companies in 2006-2007. Programming languages taking a while to get adoption is very common. It takes a lot of investment from companies and programmers to learn a new language and build something in it. This is especially true when your language is a systems language, which takes much more effort to learn and use than a scripting language like the two examples above.
Dec 11 2015
prev sibling parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/11/2015 07:00 AM, Ozan wrote:
 Hi, all
 the TIOBE Index for December 2015 lists D in rank 23.
 Not bad, with room for improvements.

 Regards Ozan
Thanks for the heads-up. As usual such rankings should be taken with a boulder of salt and at best used as one of several signals. That said, I do believe that generally an improved rank for a given language is a good sign. D's Tiobe rank was 28 in Dec 2014. -- Andrei
Dec 11 2015