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digitalmars.D - D brand identity repository

reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
(For the moment, I'm leaving the can of worms I've opened in the other
thread, in favour of getting something done.)

I'm proposing that D needs some form of official brand identity.  This would
include things like:

   - An official logo.  I've seen a bazillion around.  Something in SVG,
   appropriate all the way down from posters to icons, would be nice.
    Variations including a logotype (i.e., including the words "D Programming
   Language"), at a couple of aspect ratios, would be highly useful.
   - A color palette.  Most obviously, D seems to identify with the dark,
   Mars red, and a few other colors are floating around.  It would be good to
   get these down in HSL.  And RGB, Pantone, whatever.
   - Font choice.  Arial and Verdana are around as body fonts, Times and
   Georgia as titling.  Obviously this choice should agree with the choice of
   face for the logotype.
   - Descriptions at a few different word lengths.  With any organization on
   the web, you have a "brief description" in a million different places.  With
   an evolving project like D, those will get out of date.  From experience, I
   know how useful it is to decide on a promotional description at say, 250
   words, 100 words, 25 words, 10 words in length.
   - Any necessary guidelines on how the above should be used.

What I'm not proposing includes:

   - Anything revolutionary.  D does have a kind of identity built around
   the Mars theme.  It would be a shame to lose heritage here.
   - Me making executive decisions.  This is a collaborative effort as with
   any other.

I anticipate this brand identity to be used in at least:

   - The official website.
   - The official documentation.
   - Any satellite sites -- Twitter, etc.
   - Any printed promotional material.  (Does any exist?)

I propose this content be maintained in a GH repository,
github.com/D-Programming-Language/D-brand-identity.  Other repos such as
d-programming-language.org can then include it as a git submodule.
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/30/2011 12:38 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 (For the moment, I'm leaving the can of worms I've opened in the other thread,
 in favour of getting something done.)
:-)
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/30/2011 12:38 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 (For the moment, I'm leaving the can of worms I've opened in the other thread,
 in favour of getting something done.)

 I'm proposing that D needs some form of official brand identity.  This would
 include things like:

     * An official logo.  I've seen a bazillion around.  Something in SVG,
       appropriate all the way down from posters to icons, would be nice.
         Variations including a logotype (i.e., including the words "D
       Programming Language"), at a couple of aspect ratios, would be highly
useful.
We've pretty much settled on the logo used on d-programming-language.org. It would be nice to get it rendered in various sizes.
     * A color palette.  Most obviously, D seems to identify with the dark, Mars
       red, and a few other colors are floating around.  It would be good to get
       these down in HSL.  And RGB, Pantone, whatever.
Again, the d-programming-language.org has one.
     * Font choice.  Arial and Verdana are around as body fonts, Times and
       Georgia as titling.  Obviously this choice should agree with the choice
of
       face for the logotype.
     * Descriptions at a few different word lengths.  With any organization on
       the web, you have a "brief description" in a million different places.
         With an evolving project like D, those will get out of date.  From
       experience, I know how useful it is to decide on a promotional
description
       at say, 250 words, 100 words, 25 words, 10 words in length.
     * Any necessary guidelines on how the above should be used.

 What I'm not proposing includes:

     * Anything revolutionary.  D does have a kind of identity built around the
       Mars theme.  It would be a shame to lose heritage here.
     * Me making executive decisions.  This is a collaborative effort as with
any
       other.

 I anticipate this brand identity to be used in at least:

     * The official website.
     * The official documentation.
     * Any satellite sites -- Twitter, etc.
See D_Programming on twitter
     * Any printed promotional material.  (Does any exist?)
No.
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Walter Bright
<newshound2 digitalmars.com>wrote:
 We've pretty much settled on the logo used on d-programming-language.org.
 It would be nice to get it rendered in various sizes.
Fair enough. It seems there's no source for it around (just the PNG), so I've been vectorizing. In the process, I thought I may as well throw my suggestion into the mix: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo.png Basically, I like the core idea of the logo at d-p-l.org. One thing that doesn't work so well is the shiny iconized background. A logo should be *simple*, and I think this just detracts from the nice central idea. To this end I have removed it: I think the logo itself should just be the Mars-and-satellites detail. The other thing that doesn't work is, and forgive my crudeness, it looks like a lactating breast. Once I realized this I have unfortunately been unable to shake the image from my mind. To this end I have introduced a white highlight to the satellites. (I'm still not sure this fully removes the image.) One side-effect of this you might like is that the crescent simultaneously acts as "devil's horns", reminiscent of this charming little guy<http://digitalmars.com/d/horns.gif>who seems to have been forgotten. Obviously, this is a prototype. The alignment and composition could be worked on.
Jun 30 2011
parent reply "Tyro[a.c.edwards]" <nospam home.com> writes:
On 6/30/2011 9:54 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Walter Bright
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com <mailto:newshound2 digitalmars.com>> wrote:

     We've pretty much settled on the logo used on
     d-programming-language.org <http://d-programming-language.org>. It
     would be nice to get it rendered in various sizes.


 Fair enough.  It seems there's no source for it around (just the PNG),
 so I've been vectorizing.

 In the process, I thought I may as well throw my suggestion into the
 mix: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo.png
Woo... Wait a second! What religion is this again? Don't like it, I'll keep what we got right now.
 Basically, I like the core idea of the logo at d-p-l.org
 <http://d-p-l.org>.  One thing that doesn't work so well is the
 shiny iconized background.  A logo should be *simple*, and I think this
 just detracts from the nice central idea.  To this end I have removed
 it: I think the logo itself should just be the Mars-and-satellites detail.

 The other thing that doesn't work is, and forgive my crudeness, it looks
 like a lactating breast.  Once I realized this I have unfortunately been
 unable to shake the image from my mind.  To this end I have introduced a
 white highlight to the satellites.  (I'm still not sure this fully
 removes the image.)

 One side-effect of this you might like is that the crescent
 simultaneously acts as "devil's horns", reminiscent of this charming
 little guy <http://digitalmars.com/d/horns.gif> who seems to have been
 forgotten.

 Obviously, this is a prototype.  The alignment and composition could be
 worked on.
Jun 30 2011
parent Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 30.06.2011 22:25, schrieb Tyro[a.c.edwards]:
 On 6/30/2011 9:54 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Walter Bright
 <newshound2 digitalmars.com <mailto:newshound2 digitalmars.com>> wrote:

     We've pretty much settled on the logo used on
     d-programming-language.org <http://d-programming-language.org>. It
     would be nice to get it rendered in various sizes.


 Fair enough.  It seems there's no source for it around (just the PNG),
 so I've been vectorizing.

 In the process, I thought I may as well throw my suggestion into the
 mix: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo.png
Woo... Wait a second! What religion is this again? Don't like it, I'll keep what we got right now.
To me it looks like the BSD religion.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png

More playing around.  Criticisms:

- it's a bit busy
- as a rule, gradients don't add any worth
- mixes planet/devil metaphors to a degree that the planet metaphor is lost

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 1:54 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>wrote:

 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:55 AM, Walter Bright <
 newshound2 digitalmars.com> wrote:
 We've pretty much settled on the logo used on d-programming-language.org.
 It would be nice to get it rendered in various sizes.
Fair enough. It seems there's no source for it around (just the PNG), so I've been vectorizing. In the process, I thought I may as well throw my suggestion into the mix: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo.png Basically, I like the core idea of the logo at d-p-l.org. One thing that doesn't work so well is the shiny iconized background. A logo should be *simple*, and I think this just detracts from the nice central idea. To this end I have removed it: I think the logo itself should just be the Mars-and-satellites detail. The other thing that doesn't work is, and forgive my crudeness, it looks like a lactating breast. Once I realized this I have unfortunately been unable to shake the image from my mind. To this end I have introduced a white highlight to the satellites. (I'm still not sure this fully removes the image.) One side-effect of this you might like is that the crescent simultaneously acts as "devil's horns", reminiscent of this charming little guy<http://digitalmars.com/d/horns.gif>who seems to have been forgotten. Obviously, this is a prototype. The alignment and composition could be worked on.
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent reply Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
Am 30.06.2011, 17:38 Uhr, schrieb James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>:

 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png

 More playing around.
The additional planet rather looks like a crescent and thus like something religious.
Jun 30 2011
parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Trass3r <un known.com> wrote:

 Am 30.06.2011, 17:38 Uhr, schrieb James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>:


  https://github.com/eegg/d-**brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png>
 More playing around.
The additional planet rather looks like a crescent and thus like something religious.
Def; https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-6.png this is at least thematically consistent, though as Steven says, apparently thematically inappropriate :)
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 11:38:05 -0400, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>  
wrote:

 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png

 More playing around.  Criticisms:

 - it's a bit busy
 - as a rule, gradients don't add any worth
 - mixes planet/devil metaphors to a degree that the planet metaphor is  
 lost
To be honest, I don't think this is the right direction. D isn't the devil's language :) I also don't like the crescents. They don't look right against the D. They also don't look like crescent moons, if that is what you are going for. I like the current d-programming-language.org logo the best so far. I read your previous criticism about the circles, I don't see the breast reference too much, but the crescents are worse IMO. Can you just put a line through the super-imposed circle that follows the curve of the letter, to make it look like the circle is behind it? Not sure if this would look better, but it would certainly be better than the crescents. -Steve
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
<schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:
 To be honest, I don't think this is the right direction.  D isn't the
 devil's language :)
Fair enough; I suppose that old logo was an oddity :)
 I also don't like the crescents.  They don't look right against the D.
  They also don't look like crescent moons, if that is what you are going
 for.

 I like the current d-programming-language.org logo the best so far.  I
 read your previous criticism about the circles, I don't see the breast
 reference too much, but the crescents are worse IMO.  Can you just put a
 line through the super-imposed circle that follows the curve of the letter,
 to make it look like the circle is behind it?  Not sure if this would look
 better, but it would certainly be better than the crescents.
Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png
Jun 30 2011
parent reply Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org> writes:
On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png
I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:50:27 -0400, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org>  
wrote:

 On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 Something like this?  
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png
I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
Yes, this is what I meant. Make the circle look like it's behind the D, not in front. And I always thought it looked like the D was oozing bubbles :) -Steve
Jun 30 2011
parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
<schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:

 On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 12:50:27 -0400, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org>
 wrote:

  On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png>
I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
Yes, this is what I meant. Make the circle look like it's behind the D, not in front. And I always thought it looked like the D was oozing bubbles :)
Yeah. It's not obvious to a newcomer what is being depicted. One has to be familiar with the Mars-themed heritage of D and with the astronomy of Mars, otherwise it just looks like blobs.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org> wrote:

 On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:

 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png>
I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png Like this? Note that the z-order is actually ambiguous in the current design :)
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:25:33 -0400, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>  
wrote:

 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org>  
 wrote:

 On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:

 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png>
I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png Like this? Note that the z-order is actually ambiguous in the current design :)
Yes, which I think is why I think people see breasts or bubbles :) That looks better, but nitpicking here -- can you put the circle closer to the D? It should be eclipsed just before the circle reaches its widest point. Your logo-3 had it closer. -Steve
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
<schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:

 On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:25:33 -0400, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>
 wrote:

  On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org>
 wrote:

  On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<**https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png>

I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
https://github.com/eegg/d-**brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/mast r/d-logo-5.png>Like this? Note that the z-order is actually ambiguous in the current design :)
Yes, which I think is why I think people see breasts or bubbles :) That looks better, but nitpicking here --
Not nitpicking at all -- I think a language that's been perfected for a decade or so deserves to look good. Whether I can achieve that or not.
 can you put the circle closer to the D?  It should be eclipsed just before
 the circle reaches its widest point.  Your logo-3 had it closer.
Sure thing: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png And a more radical departure: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-7.png . Again just proof-of-concept. Solves the visual stretch required for the D-as-planet. However, perhaps the capitalization is too firmly set in in the community. And a variation: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-8.png that *perhaps* captures that files end in ".d"?
Jun 30 2011
parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:12:58 -0400, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>  
wrote:

 Sure thing: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png
I have to say, I like this one the best. Even better than the original.
 And a more radical departure:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-7.png .  Again just
 proof-of-concept.  Solves the visual stretch required for the  
 D-as-planet.
  However, perhaps the capitalization is too firmly set in in the  
 community.
Yeah, I'm not sure lowercase works well. Also, that looks like a sideways snowman :) -Steve
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
<schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:

 Also, that looks like a sideways snowman :)
Here, have some cartoon craters https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"James Fisher" <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1324.1309461871.14074.digitalmars-d puremagic.com...
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
 <schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:

 Also, that looks like a sideways snowman :)
Here, have some cartoon craters https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png
I like this one quite a bit.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent reply KennyTM~ <kennytm gmail.com> writes:
On Jul 1, 11 03:24, James Fisher wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
 <schveiguy yahoo.com <mailto:schveiguy yahoo.com>> wrote:

     Also, that looks like a sideways snowman :)


 Here, have some cartoon craters
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png
This is too complicated. Quoting you, "A logo should be *simple*". If the goal is to make a simple logo, I'd make it identifiable in monochrome (e.g. d-logo-3, 5, 7, 8). Python, Perl and Haskell's logos satisfy these, while Ruby is an obvious exception. If it's not monochrome I don't see those options simpler than the original http://d-programming-language.org/images/dlogo.png.
Jun 30 2011
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"KennyTM~" <kennytm gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:iuikk3$2ucf$1 digitalmars.com...
 On Jul 1, 11 03:24, James Fisher wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
 <schveiguy yahoo.com <mailto:schveiguy yahoo.com>> wrote:

     Also, that looks like a sideways snowman :)


 Here, have some cartoon craters
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png
This is too complicated. Quoting you, "A logo should be *simple*". If the goal is to make a simple logo, I'd make it identifiable in monochrome (e.g. d-logo-3, 5, 7, 8). Python, Perl and Haskell's logos satisfy these, while Ruby is an obvious exception. If it's not monochrome I don't see those options simpler than the original http://d-programming-language.org/images/dlogo.png.
While a logo certainly should be identifiable in monochrome, that doesn't preclude an additional "detail-added" version for places where such would be appropriate. And too much monochome-orientation can lead to a very corporate-looking logo.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Torarin <torarind gmail.com> writes:
2011/6/30 James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy yahoo.co=
m>
 wrote:
 Also, that looks like a sideways snowman :)
Here, have some cartoon craters=A0https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png
I love this! I normally prefer minimalistic logos, like Haskell's, but this one is so fun. It's balanced and it works. Torarin
Jun 30 2011
parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Torarin" <torarind gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1330.1309466229.14074.digitalmars-d puremagic.com...
2011/6/30 James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Steven Schveighoffer 
 <schveiguy yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 Also, that looks like a sideways snowman :)
Here, have some cartoon craters https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png
I love this! I normally prefer minimalistic logos, like Haskell's, but this one is so fun. It's balanced and it works.
Yea. And it's the only D logo I've seen that really makes the whole "planet" concept clear. Well, this one and Mafi's, too. But this one even moreso.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent "Tyro[a.c.edwards]" <nospam home.com> writes:
On 7/1/2011 4:02 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
 On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 14:12:58 -0400, James Fisher
 <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote:

 Sure thing: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png
I have to say, I like this one the best. Even better than the original.
 And a more radical departure:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-7.png . Again just
 proof-of-concept. Solves the visual stretch required for the D-as-planet.
 However, perhaps the capitalization is too firmly set in in the
 community.
Departure notwithstanding, I actually like this one... Were not for the recent post by Mafi, this would be my only choice of the proposals thus far.
 Yeah, I'm not sure lowercase works well. Also, that looks like a
 sideways snowman :)

 -Steve
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent Chris Molozian <chris cmoz.me> writes:
I'm guessing it'll probably be too radical a change but I really like 
concept 7. The thinner lines look more passive and the bubble's make it 
look almost thoughtful (I know... I'm personifying a letter here).

Whether the community will agree on any of them... who knows... but 
personally I agree that the "shiny iconized background" around the 
existing icon could do with being removed to simplify the logo.

For inspiration,

http://www.python.org/community/logos/python-logo-master-v3-TM.png
http://www.haskell.org/wikiupload/4/4a/HaskellLogoStyPreview-1.png
http://tinyurl.com/353vbwy (Vala proposed logo)

Chris


On 06/30/11 19:12, James Fisher wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:42 PM, Steven Schveighoffer 
 <schveiguy yahoo.com <mailto:schveiguy yahoo.com>> wrote:

     On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:25:33 -0400, James Fisher
     <jameshfisher gmail.com <mailto:jameshfisher gmail.com>> wrote:

         On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jeff Nowakowski
         <jeff dilacero.org <mailto:jeff dilacero.org>> wrote:

             On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:


                 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-**
                 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png>


             I think having the separator is good (that first
             planet/moon always looked
             like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However,
             instead of taking a
             bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design
             where D eclipses
             the first circle.


         https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png Like this?

         Note that the z-order is actually ambiguous in the current
         design :)


     Yes, which I think is why I think people see breasts or bubbles :)

     That looks better, but nitpicking here -- 


 Not nitpicking at all -- I think a language that's been perfected for 
 a decade or so deserves to look good.  Whether I can achieve that or not.

     can you put the circle closer to the D?  It should be eclipsed
     just before the circle reaches its widest point.  Your logo-3 had
     it closer.


 Sure thing: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png

 And a more radical departure: 
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-7.png .  Again just 
 proof-of-concept.  Solves the visual stretch required for the 
 D-as-planet.  However, perhaps the capitalization is too firmly set in 
 in the community.

 And a variation: 
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-8.png that *perhaps* 
 captures that files end in ".d"?
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 30.06.2011 19:25, schrieb James Fisher:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org> wrote:
 
 On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:

 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png>
I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png Like this? Note that the z-order is actually ambiguous in the current design :)
I like this one best so far (probably because I really like the original logo), but the white border between the D and the bigger moon should be thinner. Maybe this moon should be a bit more to the right so it's more of a circle. Or maybe it should be bigger so part of it can be seen inside the D. (I don't like the other one with the small d very much, btw) Cheers, - Daniel
Jun 30 2011
parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 01.07.2011 00:44, schrieb Daniel Gibson:
 Am 30.06.2011 19:25, schrieb James Fisher:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org> wrote:

 On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:

 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png>
I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png Like this? Note that the z-order is actually ambiguous in the current design :)
I like this one best so far (probably because I really like the original logo), but the white border between the D and the bigger moon should be thinner. Maybe this moon should be a bit more to the right so it's more of a circle. Or maybe it should be bigger so part of it can be seen inside the D. (I don't like the other one with the small d very much, btw) Cheers, - Daniel
I just modified the svg from your git accordingly, see attachement. Cheers, - Daniel
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Daniel Gibson" <metalcaedes gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:iuivc5$1uqs$15 digitalmars.com...
 I just modified the svg from your git accordingly, see attachement.
Your #2 is pretty nice. I think the best thing would be some sort of cross between that and Mafi's. Either that or the craters, I like that one too :)
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:58:38 -0400, Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com>  
wrote:

 Am 01.07.2011 00:44, schrieb Daniel Gibson:
 Am 30.06.2011 19:25, schrieb James Fisher:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org>  
 wrote:

 On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:

 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png>
I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png Like this? Note that the z-order is actually ambiguous in the current design :)
I like this one best so far (probably because I really like the original logo), but the white border between the D and the bigger moon should be thinner. Maybe this moon should be a bit more to the right so it's more of a circle. Or maybe it should be bigger so part of it can be seen inside the D. (I don't like the other one with the small d very much, btw) Cheers, - Daniel
I just modified the svg from your git accordingly, see attachement.
I like these, especially the ones with the planet being seen inside the D. I agree the separating line works better as a thinner line. -Steve
Jul 01 2011
parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
A couple of things to keep in mind:

I see every suggestion so far, including mine, uses letterplay, but a logo
does not *have* to do this.  Note that Python's logo is not the word
"python" made out of snakes, for example.  I see a lot of ameteur-looking
logos around that seem to think that forcing a letter or word into a shape
is the only way to do it.  The end result is, well, it looks forced, and
that's bad.  I'm not advocating discarding the "D" route, but it's something
to keep in mind.  This certainly opens up possibilities for simplicity.
 There are many logos out there consisting of a simple graphic and some
well-set text, and they look classy.  For example, we could run with the
Mars theme, and *just* have a well-done stylized image of Mars.  Example:
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-11.png.

Second thing: scalability of the image.  The logo should scale well down to
a 16x16px icon:
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-12-icon.png (this, for
example, does not).


On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:

 On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 18:58:38 -0400, Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com>
 wrote:

  Am 01.07.2011 00:44, schrieb Daniel Gibson:
 Am 30.06.2011 19:25, schrieb James Fisher:

 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff dilacero.org>
 wrote:

  On 06/30/2011 12:28 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<**https://github.com/eegg/d-**
 brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png>

I think having the separator is good (that first planet/moon always looked like some kind of tumorous growth on D to me). However, instead of taking a bite out of D, I think you should keep the current design where D eclipses the first circle.
https://github.com/eegg/d-**brand/raw/master/d-logo-5.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/mast r/d-logo-5.png>Like this? Note that the z-order is actually ambiguous in the current design :)
I like this one best so far (probably because I really like the original logo), but the white border between the D and the bigger moon should be thinner. Maybe this moon should be a bit more to the right so it's more of a circle. Or maybe it should be bigger so part of it can be seen inside the D. (I don't like the other one with the small d very much, btw) Cheers, - Daniel
I just modified the svg from your git accordingly, see attachement.
I like these, especially the ones with the planet being seen inside the D. I agree the separating line works better as a thinner line. -Steve
Jul 01 2011
next sibling parent Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
James Fisher wrote:
 For example, we could run with the
 Mars theme, and *just* have a well-done stylized image of Mars.
This made me think of Digital Mars: http://digitalmars.com/dmlogo.gif
Jul 01 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"James Fisher" <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:mailman.1364.1309536134.14074.digitalmars-d puremagic.com...
A couple of things to keep in mind:

 I see every suggestion so far, including mine, uses letterplay, but a logo
 does not *have* to do this.  Note that Python's logo is not the word
 "python" made out of snakes, for example.  I see a lot of ameteur-looking
 logos around that seem to think that forcing a letter or word into a shape
 is the only way to do it.  The end result is, well, it looks forced, and
 that's bad.  I'm not advocating discarding the "D" route, but it's 
 something
 to keep in mind.  This certainly opens up possibilities for simplicity.
 There are many logos out there consisting of a simple graphic and some
 well-set text, and they look classy.  For example, we could run with the
 Mars theme, and *just* have a well-done stylized image of Mars.  Example:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-11.png.

 Second thing: scalability of the image.  The logo should scale well down 
 to
 a 16x16px icon:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-12-icon.png (this, for
 example, does not).
Certainly good points. Although since the name of the language is a letter, I think a letter-based logo makes a lot of sense in this case.
Jul 01 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 01.07.2011 18:02, schrieb James Fisher:
 Note that Python's logo is not the word
 "python" made out of snakes, for example. 
Python's logo is a (pair of stylized) python(s), and D's logo contains a "D", so whats the difference? It's not like we spell out "Dee" or something (although this may be doable with the moons as 'e's). If the languages name was "Mars" (like originally intended) just having mars as a logo (like digitalmars) would make sense, but not for a language named "D". I think it's important that the logo makes sense for somebody who is not deeply familiar with D and its (digital)mars origin. Cheers, - Daniel
Jul 01 2011
parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
I'm keeping this organized at http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/.  Feedback and
additions (or subtractions) welcome.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 8:51 AM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 1:50 AM, Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com>wrote:
 [...] I think it's important that the logo makes sense for

 somebody who is not deeply familiar with D and its (digital)mars origin.
I definitely agree, and that was kinda my point. Of two options, (1) a half-baked abstraction of Mars, where the representation is only clear to the community inner circle and where an outsider would think "What are those balls/warts?", (2) a clear representation of Mars, where the worst the outsider can think is "what does Mars have to do with D?" (a question that would also follow your explanation of the abstract representation), I'd take the latter. If that's still not good enough because the Mars theme doesn't make sense, then the only real option is to scrap the Mars theme altogether. I wouldn't want to do that.
Jul 02 2011
parent reply Roman Ivanov <isroman.DEL ETE.km.ru> writes:
On 7/2/2011 6:09 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 I'm keeping this organized at http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/.  Feedback
 and additions (or subtractions) welcome.
 
 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 8:51 AM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com
 <mailto:jameshfisher gmail.com>> wrote:
 
     On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 1:50 AM, Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com
     <mailto:metalcaedes gmail.com>> wrote:
 
         [...] I think it's important that the logo makes sense for
 
         somebody who is not deeply familiar with D and its (digital)mars
         origin.
 
 
     I definitely agree, and that was kinda my point.  Of two options,
 
     (1) a half-baked abstraction of Mars, where the representation is
     only clear to the community inner circle and where an outsider would
     think "What are those balls/warts?",
 
     (2) a clear representation of Mars, where the worst the outsider can
     think is "what does Mars have to do with D?" (a question that would
     also follow your explanation of the abstract representation),
 
     I'd take the latter.  If that's still not good enough because the
     Mars theme doesn't make sense, then the only real option is to scrap
     the Mars theme altogether.  I wouldn't want to do that.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/269/dmars.jpg/ I'm not proposing this as a logo, it's just a digital version of "thinking out loud". Mars is tough to represent in abstract. Unless you use the mars symbol: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/dsymbol.png/ That might evoke some unnecessary associations, though.
Jul 06 2011
parent Jose Armando Garcia <jsancio gmail.com> writes:
This is pretty cool it can probably be modify to look more like mars
and make the vertical line the orbit of mars' moons.

http://www.amorian.org/images/temp/D.jpg

PS. found the image using Google...
Jul 06 2011
prev sibling parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-07-01 18:02, James Fisher wrote:
 A couple of things to keep in mind:

 I see every suggestion so far, including mine, uses letterplay, but a
 logo does not *have* to do this.  Note that Python's logo is not the
 word "python" made out of snakes, for example.  I see a lot of
 ameteur-looking logos around that seem to think that forcing a letter or
 word into a shape is the only way to do it.  The end result is, well, it
 looks forced, and that's bad.  I'm not advocating discarding the "D"
 route, but it's something to keep in mind.  This certainly opens up
 possibilities for simplicity.  There are many logos out there consisting
 of a simple graphic and some well-set text, and they look classy.  For
 example, we could run with the Mars theme, and *just* have a well-done
 stylized image of Mars.  Example:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-11.png.
I like that one. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Jul 02 2011
parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
I've vectorized the Digital Mars logo.  http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/  (I
think it's Arial in the original, but the M and S of my Arial is
different??)  Perhaps this'll be useful some day.

Barring the stretched text, there is something I like about the DM logo.
 The Mars there looks totally out of this world (hah).

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> wrote:

 On 2011-07-01 18:02, James Fisher wrote:

 A couple of things to keep in mind:

 I see every suggestion so far, including mine, uses letterplay, but a
 logo does not *have* to do this.  Note that Python's logo is not the
 word "python" made out of snakes, for example.  I see a lot of

 ameteur-looking logos around that seem to think that forcing a letter or
 word into a shape is the only way to do it.  The end result is, well, it
 looks forced, and that's bad.  I'm not advocating discarding the "D"
 route, but it's something to keep in mind.  This certainly opens up
 possibilities for simplicity.  There are many logos out there consisting
 of a simple graphic and some well-set text, and they look classy.  For
 example, we could run with the Mars theme, and *just* have a well-done
 stylized image of Mars.  Example:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-**brand/raw/master/d-logo-11.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-11.png>
 **.
I like that one. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Jul 02 2011
next sibling parent reply bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
James Fisher:

 I've vectorized the Digital Mars logo.  http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/  (I
 think it's Arial in the original, but the M and S of my Arial is
 different??)  Perhaps this'll be useful some day.
I like this most: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/dlogo.png I like this too, but I think it's better to draw Phobos (the larger moon) a bit larger: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/d-logo-5.png Bye, bearophile
Jul 02 2011
next sibling parent reply Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 02.07.2011 17:43, schrieb bearophile:
 James Fisher:
 
 I've vectorized the Digital Mars logo.  http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/  (I
 think it's Arial in the original, but the M and S of my Arial is
 different??)  Perhaps this'll be useful some day.
I like this most: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/dlogo.png I like this too, but I think it's better to draw Phobos (the larger moon) a bit larger: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/d-logo-5.png
Like this: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/d-logo-5_2.png ? ;) Cheers, - Daniel
Jul 02 2011
parent reply bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Daniel Gibson:

 Like this: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/d-logo-5_2.png ? ;)
The white border around Phobos is too much thin, I think. Bye, bearophile
Jul 02 2011
parent reply Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> writes:
What about this?

http://i.imgur.com/toykT.png

The main problem with the current logo is the gradient/faded background.
When the D letter is in white, the extra white in the background just makes
the whole thing look too bright and non-solid.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:21 AM, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com>wrote:

 Daniel Gibson:

 Like this: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/d-logo-5_2.png ? ;)
The white border around Phobos is too much thin, I think. Bye, bearophile
Jul 02 2011
parent reply bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Jimmy Cao:

 What about this?
 
 http://i.imgur.com/toykT.png
The white border around the biggest moon is too much thin, I think (just as before). Bye, bearophile
Jul 02 2011
next sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
You'll find descriptions of D at the bottom of
http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/.  I'd appreciate anyone with a knack for
editing or promotion to contribute.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:52 PM, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> wrote:

 Jimmy Cao:

 What about this?

 http://i.imgur.com/toykT.png
The white border around the biggest moon is too much thin, I think (just as before). Bye, bearophile
Jul 02 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
At the bottom of http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/ I'm working on a palette.
 You'll find a list of the colors currently at d-p-l.org.  If nothing else,
this list can be massively shortened.

I've also got my own suggestion there.  The orangered is faithful to the
original Digital Mars logo rather than to the current D logo.  IMO the
current palette is a little dull; some sparse uses of this color could bring
a page to life.  The two main other colors there are a very dark blue
similar to that on d-p-l.org, and white.  The two others are different
saturation and value of that dark blue.  All blues and the red are
complements on the color wheel.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:59 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote:

 You'll find descriptions of D at the bottom of
 http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/.  I'd appreciate anyone with a knack for
 editing or promotion to contribute.


 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:52 PM, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com>wrote:

 Jimmy Cao:

 What about this?

 http://i.imgur.com/toykT.png
The white border around the biggest moon is too much thin, I think (just as before). Bye, bearophile
Jul 02 2011
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-07-02 20:48, James Fisher wrote:
 At the bottom of http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/ I'm working on a
 palette.  You'll find a list of the colors currently at d-p-l.org
 <http://d-p-l.org>.  If nothing else, this list can be massively shortened.
I don't think the lime green color belongs in the palette. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Jul 03 2011
parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:51 AM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> wrote:

 On 2011-07-02 20:48, James Fisher wrote:

 At the bottom of http://eegg.github.com/d-**brand/<http://eegg.git
ub.com/d-brand/>I'm working on a
 palette.  You'll find a list of the colors currently at d-p-l.org
 <http://d-p-l.org>.  If nothing else, this list can be massively
 shortened.
I don't think the lime green color belongs in the palette.
You're right.

Jul 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
So, here's a website mockup: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png

Comments appreciated.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 7:48 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote:

 At the bottom of http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/ I'm working on a palette.
  You'll find a list of the colors currently at d-p-l.org.  If nothing
 else, this list can be massively shortened.

 I've also got my own suggestion there.  The orangered is faithful to the
 original Digital Mars logo rather than to the current D logo.  IMO the
 current palette is a little dull; some sparse uses of this color could bring
 a page to life.  The two main other colors there are a very dark blue
 similar to that on d-p-l.org, and white.  The two others are different
 saturation and value of that dark blue.  All blues and the red are
 complements on the color wheel.


 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:59 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>wrote:

 You'll find descriptions of D at the bottom of
 http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/.  I'd appreciate anyone with a knack for
 editing or promotion to contribute.


 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:52 PM, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com>wrote:

 Jimmy Cao:

 What about this?

 http://i.imgur.com/toykT.png
The white border around the biggest moon is too much thin, I think (just as before). Bye, bearophile
Jul 02 2011
parent reply Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-07-02 23:01, James Fisher wrote:
 So, here's a website mockup: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png

 Comments appreciated.
In general I like it. I think the top tabs are a little too big. You could cut the height in half I think, it's wasting a too much vertical space. You can easily cut off 30px above and below the text in the tabs. As others have said, I like this logo: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/d-logo-11.png or at least the colors. I would be nice to see a mouckup of one page from the language reference and one from the library reference, for example: http://d-programming-language.org/lex.html http://d-programming-language.org/phobos/std_string.html -- /Jacob Carlborg
Jul 03 2011
parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> wrote:

 On 2011-07-02 23:01, James Fisher wrote:

 So, here's a website mockup:
http://eegg.github.com/d-**brand/mockup.png<http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png>

 Comments appreciated.
In general I like it. I think the top tabs are a little too big. You could cut the height in half I think, it's wasting a too much vertical space. You can easily cut off 30px above and below the text in the tabs.
That is true, though I do have a few reasons for keeping 'em big: - I think the composition works better with it being a half or a third of the height of the sand-color banner. - potentially, a second layer of links could be introduced. (Though in general I shy away from multi-level top-level links as over-engineered, unless the site is really complex, which it's not.) - on other pages, e.g. the docs, I'm considering having the logo in the dark banner (at the same x-pos). This would require some space. - last but not least, it's the web, not paper, and we have all the space we want for free!
 I would be nice to see a mouckup of one page from the language reference
 and one from the library reference, for example:

 http://d-programming-language.**org/lex.html<http://d-programming-language.org/lex.html>
 http://d-programming-language.**org/phobos/std_string.html<http://d-programming-language.org/phobos/std_string.html>
I'll come up with those when I stop playing around with Inkscape, and mock up in HTML/CSS.
Jul 03 2011
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 7/3/11 7:15 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com
 <mailto:doob me.com>> wrote:

     On 2011-07-02 23:01, James Fisher wrote:

         So, here's a website mockup:
         http://eegg.github.com/d-__brand/mockup.png
         <http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png>

         Comments appreciated.


     In general I like it. I think the top tabs are a little too big. You
     could cut the height in half I think, it's wasting a too much
     vertical space. You can easily cut off 30px above and below the text
     in the tabs.


 That is true, though I do have a few reasons for keeping 'em big:

 - I think the composition works better with it being a half or a third
 of the height of the sand-color banner.
 - potentially, a second layer of links could be introduced.  (Though in
 general I shy away from multi-level top-level links as over-engineered,
 unless the site is really complex, which it's not.)
 - on other pages, e.g. the docs, I'm considering having the logo in the
 dark banner (at the same x-pos).  This would require some space.
 - last but not least, it's the web, not paper, and we have all the space
 we want for free!

     I would be nice to see a mouckup of one page from the language
     reference and one from the library reference, for example:

     http://d-programming-language.__org/lex.html
     <http://d-programming-language.org/lex.html>
     http://d-programming-language.__org/phobos/std_string.html
     <http://d-programming-language.org/phobos/std_string.html>


 I'll come up with those when I stop playing around with Inkscape, and
 mock up in HTML/CSS.
One thing that's going somewhat unnoticed in this discussion is that the site is at the end of a major redesign cycle during which people in this group gave extensive input on the logo, the color scheme, the fonts, the page design - pretty much all aspects of the website. I find it surprising that all that is now as if it never existed. Andrei
Jul 03 2011
next sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?0JzQuNGF0LDQuNC7INCh0YLRgNCw0YjRg9C9?= <not now.sorry> writes:
Well, some just have completely missed that discussion and like this new 
mockup a lot more than current d-programming-language.org :)
Hope no harm done!

On 7/3/2011 5:52 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 7/3/11 7:15 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com
 <mailto:doob me.com>> wrote:

 On 2011-07-02 23:01, James Fisher wrote:

 So, here's a website mockup:
 http://eegg.github.com/d-__brand/mockup.png
 <http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png>

 Comments appreciated.


 In general I like it. I think the top tabs are a little too big. You
 could cut the height in half I think, it's wasting a too much
 vertical space. You can easily cut off 30px above and below the text
 in the tabs.


 That is true, though I do have a few reasons for keeping 'em big:

 - I think the composition works better with it being a half or a third
 of the height of the sand-color banner.
 - potentially, a second layer of links could be introduced. (Though in
 general I shy away from multi-level top-level links as over-engineered,
 unless the site is really complex, which it's not.)
 - on other pages, e.g. the docs, I'm considering having the logo in the
 dark banner (at the same x-pos). This would require some space.
 - last but not least, it's the web, not paper, and we have all the space
 we want for free!

 I would be nice to see a mouckup of one page from the language
 reference and one from the library reference, for example:

 http://d-programming-language.__org/lex.html
 <http://d-programming-language.org/lex.html>
 http://d-programming-language.__org/phobos/std_string.html
 <http://d-programming-language.org/phobos/std_string.html>


 I'll come up with those when I stop playing around with Inkscape, and
 mock up in HTML/CSS.
One thing that's going somewhat unnoticed in this discussion is that the site is at the end of a major redesign cycle during which people in this group gave extensive input on the logo, the color scheme, the fonts, the page design - pretty much all aspects of the website. I find it surprising that all that is now as if it never existed. Andrei
Jul 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 03.07.2011 16:52, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:
 One thing that's going somewhat unnoticed in this discussion is that the
 site is at the end of a major redesign cycle during which people in this
 group gave extensive input on the logo, the color scheme, the fonts, the
 page design - pretty much all aspects of the website. I find it
 surprising that all that is now as if it never existed.
 
 
 Andrei
I personally like current design including the current logo. But maybe a simpler version of that logo that can scale up and down (and be used as program logos etc) is needed. If this causes minor changes to the logo (like a clear border between D and the moon or the moon being partly inside the D) it shouldn't be much of an issue (and doesn't contradict the previous votes for that logo). But I personally don't think that the website's design should be changed. Cheers, - Daniel
Jul 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu <
SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 On 7/3/11 7:15 AM, James Fisher wrote:

 On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com

 <mailto:doob me.com>> wrote:

    On 2011-07-02 23:01, James Fisher wrote:

        So, here's a website mockup:
        http://eegg.github.com/d-__**brand/mockup.png<http://eegg.github.com/d-__brand/mockup.png>

        <http://eegg.github.com/d-**brand/mockup.png<http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png>

        Comments appreciated.


    In general I like it. I think the top tabs are a little too big. You
    could cut the height in half I think, it's wasting a too much
    vertical space. You can easily cut off 30px above and below the text
    in the tabs.


 That is true, though I do have a few reasons for keeping 'em big:

 - I think the composition works better with it being a half or a third
 of the height of the sand-color banner.
 - potentially, a second layer of links could be introduced.  (Though in
 general I shy away from multi-level top-level links as over-engineered,
 unless the site is really complex, which it's not.)
 - on other pages, e.g. the docs, I'm considering having the logo in the
 dark banner (at the same x-pos).  This would require some space.
 - last but not least, it's the web, not paper, and we have all the space
 we want for free!

    I would be nice to see a mouckup of one page from the language
    reference and one from the library reference, for example:

    http://d-programming-language.**__org/lex.html
    <http://d-programming-**language.org/lex.html<http://d-programming-language.org/lex.html>

    http://d-programming-language.**__org/phobos/std_string.html

    <http://d-programming-**language.org/phobos/std_**string.html<http://d-programming-language.org/phobos/std_string.html>


 I'll come up with those when I stop playing around with Inkscape, and
 mock up in HTML/CSS.
One thing that's going somewhat unnoticed in this discussion is that the site is at the end of a major redesign cycle during which people in this group gave extensive input on the logo, the color scheme, the fonts, the page design - pretty much all aspects of the website. I find it surprising that all that is now as if it never existed. Andrei
Yep, the previous discussion was very helpful in that it shaped the current site. I don't believe that appreciating this discussion makes us discredit that earlier discussion. In a healthy open-source project, all kinds of efforts from the community continually drive to improve the project as a whole.
Jul 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu <
SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:
 One thing that's going somewhat unnoticed in this discussion is that the
 site is at the end of a major redesign cycle during which people in this
 group gave extensive input on the logo, the color scheme, the fonts, the
 page design - pretty much all aspects of the website. I find it surprising
 that all that is now as if it never existed.
I don't want to give the impression that I want to discard everything. What I and the others in this thread are currently doing definitely builds on that work -- which is clear in the potential refinements of the logo, the palette, and the font choice. I imagine the contents of the site will remain 95% the same, too. My proposed page layout is perhaps an overhaul, though. If you feel the proposals are a step back rather than forwards then I'm happy to discuss that.
Jul 03 2011
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 7/3/11 12:35 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org <mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>>
 wrote:

     One thing that's going somewhat unnoticed in this discussion is that
     the site is at the end of a major redesign cycle during which people
     in this group gave extensive input on the logo, the color scheme,
     the fonts, the page design - pretty much all aspects of the website.
     I find it surprising that all that is now as if it never existed.


 I don't want to give the impression that I want to discard everything.
   What I and the others in this thread are currently doing definitely
 builds on that work -- which is clear in the potential refinements of
 the logo, the palette, and the font choice.  I imagine the contents of
 the site will remain 95% the same, too.  My proposed page layout is
 perhaps an overhaul, though.

 If you feel the proposals are a step back rather than forwards then I'm
 happy to discuss that.
I'm not qualified to discuss aesthetic matters. I think once we're past fixing flaws, a lot of stuff is simply different without being either obviously better or worse. (All other things being equal, novelty and artistic je-ne-sais-quoi are definite assets.) On my agenda for the website there are several important things: (a) make the homepage more dynamic, e.g. with the latest posts etc; (b) propagate the look and feel of std.algorithm to the other modules; (c) integrate Adam Ruppe's "try now" button everywhere; (d) make a pass through the content to improve it, fix examples, add articles and links and so on. Fiddling once more with color scheme and layout minutiae is, well, not on that list. I didn't create either the current layout or the mockup at http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png so I can candidly compare the two. I like the current layout better. * The existing logo looks professional and well rounded. The proposed logo, with non-circular bubbles, the bare letter, and the color choice looks inferior to me. * The proposed menu at the top is disproportionately tall compared to the font size. It looks like someone chose the wrong font/menu height combination in a windowing system. * The mockup text is ragged right, whereas the current site has beautifully justified and hyphenated text. * I like the color palette of the current site with the nuances of gray and the surrounding border. * I prefer the blockquote indentation and color. In the proposed layout the blockquote is only distinguished with a crappy double quote sign to its left. * I like the proposed brief code sample, but I'd rather integrate such within the current layout. (There have been discussions about that.) There's nothing objective here, so anything could go either way. Furthermore some or all of these issues (subjective as they are) can be fixed, which takes us back to the question - what is wrong with the current design, and what is the next step towards improving it? Rehashing the layout into something different-yet-equivalent doesn't strike me as getting the best bang for the buck - it's not a step forward or backward, but a definite lateral one. Thanks, Andrei
Jul 03 2011
next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
I'd rather not have a website where I have to click on 10 links to get
to the information I need. The current site has everything on its
homepage, and that's a good thing. Fuck these iPad-friendly
poser-sites.
Jul 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com> writes:
On 2011-07-03 11:03, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 7/3/11 12:35 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org <mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>>
 
 wrote:
     One thing that's going somewhat unnoticed in this discussion is that
     the site is at the end of a major redesign cycle during which people
     in this group gave extensive input on the logo, the color scheme,
     the fonts, the page design - pretty much all aspects of the website.
     I find it surprising that all that is now as if it never existed.
 
 I don't want to give the impression that I want to discard everything.
 
   What I and the others in this thread are currently doing definitely
 
 builds on that work -- which is clear in the potential refinements of
 the logo, the palette, and the font choice.  I imagine the contents of
 the site will remain 95% the same, too.  My proposed page layout is
 perhaps an overhaul, though.
 
 If you feel the proposals are a step back rather than forwards then I'm
 happy to discuss that.
I'm not qualified to discuss aesthetic matters. I think once we're past fixing flaws, a lot of stuff is simply different without being either obviously better or worse. (All other things being equal, novelty and artistic je-ne-sais-quoi are definite assets.) On my agenda for the website there are several important things: (a) make the homepage more dynamic, e.g. with the latest posts etc; (b) propagate the look and feel of std.algorithm to the other modules; (c) integrate Adam Ruppe's "try now" button everywhere; (d) make a pass through the content to improve it, fix examples, add articles and links and so on. Fiddling once more with color scheme and layout minutiae is, well, not on that list. I didn't create either the current layout or the mockup at http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png so I can candidly compare the two. I like the current layout better. * The existing logo looks professional and well rounded. The proposed logo, with non-circular bubbles, the bare letter, and the color choice looks inferior to me. * The proposed menu at the top is disproportionately tall compared to the font size. It looks like someone chose the wrong font/menu height combination in a windowing system. * The mockup text is ragged right, whereas the current site has beautifully justified and hyphenated text. * I like the color palette of the current site with the nuances of gray and the surrounding border. * I prefer the blockquote indentation and color. In the proposed layout the blockquote is only distinguished with a crappy double quote sign to its left. * I like the proposed brief code sample, but I'd rather integrate such within the current layout. (There have been discussions about that.) There's nothing objective here, so anything could go either way. Furthermore some or all of these issues (subjective as they are) can be fixed, which takes us back to the question - what is wrong with the current design, and what is the next step towards improving it? Rehashing the layout into something different-yet-equivalent doesn't strike me as getting the best bang for the buck - it's not a step forward or backward, but a definite lateral one.
Overall, I'd say that I have to agree. I like the current look and feel of d- programming-language.org, and I don't see anything wrong with its logo either (and it looks _way_ better than any of the logos suggested here IMHO). I'm sure that the site could be improved, but the kind of stuff being discussed in this thread is incredibly subjective and it doesn't generally seem like much of an improvement. d-programming-language.org is generally a step up from how www.digitalmars.com looks, and the website situation has been improving. So truth be told, I don't understand this discussion at all. It seems to me like it's a bikeshedding argument on website and logo design. I'm sure that help on d-programming-language.org would be appreciated, but working on redesigning the website _again_ seems to me like a waste of time which would be better spent elsewhere. - Jonathan M Davis
Jul 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Andrej Mitrovic
<andrej.mitrovich gmail.com>wrote:

 I'd rather not have a website where I have to click on 10 links to get
 to the information I need. The current site has everything on its
 homepage, and that's a good thing. Fuck these iPad-friendly
 poser-sites.
My, aren't you unfriendly :-)
Jul 04 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com>wrote:
 Overall, I'd say that I have to agree. I like the current look and feel of
 d-
 programming-language.org, and I don't see anything wrong with its logo
 either
 (and it looks _way_ better than any of the logos suggested here IMHO). I'm
 sure that the site could be improved, but the kind of stuff being discussed
 in
 this thread is incredibly subjective and it doesn't generally seem like
 much
 of an improvement. d-programming-language.org is generally a step up from
 how
 www.digitalmars.com looks, and the website situation has been improving.
 So
 truth be told, I don't understand this discussion at all. It seems to me
 like
 it's a bikeshedding argument on website and logo design. I'm sure that help
 on
 d-programming-language.org would be appreciated, but working on
 redesigning
 the website _again_ seems to me like a waste of time which would be better
 spent elsewhere.
I'm not sure what gave the impression that the people in this thread want to start again from scratch, but that impression seems to be the source of some hostility. At least in my case, that's *not* what I'm proposing. Pretty much everything here can be categorized as formalizing, cleaning up, or improving work that's already been done.
Jul 04 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
A second draft: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup2.png

Changes:

Swapped out logo for more conservative change.
Reduction in size of the tabs.
Search bar.
Quick-download thing.  Would have to use OS/arch detection to be effective.
Moved code down into page.  Could expand.

And important point that's not evident is that I'm designing for
variable-width.  That image is for 1600px width, but that could shrink.

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:42 AM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote:

 On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Jonathan M Davis <jmdavisProg gmx.com>wrote:
 Overall, I'd say that I have to agree. I like the current look and feel of
 d-
 programming-language.org, and I don't see anything wrong with its logo
 either
 (and it looks _way_ better than any of the logos suggested here IMHO). I'm
 sure that the site could be improved, but the kind of stuff being
 discussed in
 this thread is incredibly subjective and it doesn't generally seem like
 much
 of an improvement. d-programming-language.org is generally a step up from
 how
 www.digitalmars.com looks, and the website situation has been improving.
 So
 truth be told, I don't understand this discussion at all. It seems to me
 like
 it's a bikeshedding argument on website and logo design. I'm sure that
 help on
 d-programming-language.org would be appreciated, but working on
 redesigning
 the website _again_ seems to me like a waste of time which would be better
 spent elsewhere.
I'm not sure what gave the impression that the people in this thread want to start again from scratch, but that impression seems to be the source of some hostility. At least in my case, that's *not* what I'm proposing. Pretty much everything here can be categorized as formalizing, cleaning up, or improving work that's already been done.
Jul 04 2011
next sibling parent Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 04.07.2011 12:50, schrieb James Fisher:
 A second draft: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup2.png
 
 Changes:
 
 Swapped out logo for more conservative change.
 Reduction in size of the tabs.
 Search bar.
 Quick-download thing.  Would have to use OS/arch detection to be effective.
 Moved code down into page.  Could expand.
 
 And important point that's not evident is that I'm designing for
 variable-width.  That image is for 1600px width, but that could shrink.
 
I think the old logo (maybe slightly modified) should be kept at the homepage. At least I see the proposed logo as a simpler version of the old logo that should be used if the old logo is to shiny for the purpose or can't be scaled down enough etc. Cheers, - Daniel
Jul 04 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com> writes:
On 2011-07-04 12:50, James Fisher wrote:
 A second draft: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup2.png

 Changes:

 Swapped out logo for more conservative change.
 Reduction in size of the tabs.
 Search bar.
 Quick-download thing.  Would have to use OS/arch detection to be effective.
 Moved code down into page.  Could expand.

 And important point that's not evident is that I'm designing for
 variable-width.  That image is for 1600px width, but that could shrink.
The size of the tabs are better, still quite high, but now you're actually using the space for something else, the search bar. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Jul 04 2011
prev sibling parent reply David Gileadi <gileadis NSPMgmail.com> writes:
On 7/4/11 4:50 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 A second draft: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup2.png

 Changes:

 Swapped out logo for more conservative change.
 Reduction in size of the tabs.
 Search bar.
 Quick-download thing.  Would have to use OS/arch detection to be effective.
 Moved code down into page.  Could expand.

 And important point that's not evident is that I'm designing for
 variable-width.  That image is for 1600px width, but that could shrink.

 On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:42 AM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com
 <mailto:jameshfisher gmail.com>> wrote:

     On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Jonathan M Davis
     <jmdavisProg gmx.com <mailto:jmdavisProg gmx.com>> wrote:

         Overall, I'd say that I have to agree. I like the current look
         and feel of d-
         programming-language.org <http://programming-language.org>, and
         I don't see anything wrong with its logo either
         (and it looks _way_ better than any of the logos suggested here
         IMHO). I'm
         sure that the site could be improved, but the kind of stuff
         being discussed in
         this thread is incredibly subjective and it doesn't generally
         seem like much
         of an improvement. d-programming-language.org
         <http://d-programming-language.org> is generally a step up from how
         www.digitalmars.com <http://www.digitalmars.com> looks, and the
         website situation has been improving. So
         truth be told, I don't understand this discussion at all. It
         seems to me like
         it's a bikeshedding argument on website and logo design. I'm
         sure that help on
         d-programming-language.org <http://d-programming-language.org>
         would be appreciated, but working on redesigning
         the website _again_ seems to me like a waste of time which would
         be better
         spent elsewhere.


     I'm not sure what gave the impression that the people in this thread
     want to start again from scratch, but that impression seems to be
     the source of some hostility.  At least in my case, that's *not*
     what I'm proposing.  Pretty much everything here can be categorized
     as formalizing, cleaning up, or improving work that's already been done.
I think the fact that the mockups look quite different from the current site is generating the heat--something that looks radically different is different in peoples' minds, even if it's just a new skin. I like your mockups, the 2nd one better than the first. As with some other folks, I'm in favor of keeping the existing logo, which I think would look good with your design--better than it does on the existing site, in my opinion. I also like that you're designing for variable widths. One concern I have is that the D site has a lot of pages, and the navigation can be a bit hairy. I'd like to see a mockup of a sub-page, a Phobos or Language Spec page for instance, that shows what sub-navigation would look like with your design.
Jul 04 2011
next sibling parent David Nadlinger <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On 7/4/11 7:56 PM, David Gileadi wrote:
 One concern I have is that the D site has a lot of pages, and the
 navigation can be a bit hairy. I'd like to see a mockup of a sub-page, a
 Phobos or Language Spec page for instance, that shows what
 sub-navigation would look like with your design.
Personally, I would suggest using every possible bit of screen real estate to make the API documentation more accessible, with a symbol hierarchy/search results bar (identifier search like dpldocs.info) to the left and the main content area taking the rest of the browser window. This »DDoc viewer« would be integrated into the rest of the site with a thin dark bar at the top of the window, saying »[<<< Back to main site.] D Standard Library (Phobos) API documentation« (hey, I already had this in my mind before Google changed their design^^). I have been planning to build something like this for ages, but just didn't find enough time to do so… David
Jul 04 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder <russel russel.org.uk> writes:
On Mon, 2011-07-04 at 11:56 -0600, David Gileadi wrote:
[ . . . ]
 One concern I have is that the D site has a lot of pages, and the=20
 navigation can be a bit hairy.  I'd like to see a mockup of a sub-page,=
=20
 a Phobos or Language Spec page for instance, that shows what=20
 sub-navigation would look like with your design.
Although my familiarity with the experimental studies is now 12+ years old, and so arguably a little out of date, the headline from then was that there is a very complex interaction between "immediate visual impact", "navigability", and "need to use". If the "immediate visual impact" of a page is poor then there has to be a very high "need to use" for "navigability" to be a factor. Similarly if the "navigability" is poor then "need to use" has to be high for good "immediate visual impact" to offset the problems. In the middle ground there is a lot of individual preference. Of course where "immediate visual impact" and "navigability" are good "need to use" falls away as a factor, and indeed the web site enters the realm of being a positive draw. So what is my point? Much of the debate recently has been about "immediate visual impact" and from what I can tell, none has been about "navigability". Without there being an easily inferable navigation model, there are always going to be problems, and often they manifest as grumbles about "immediate visual impact" whereas in fact the problem is a lack of "navigability". Basically, I think there needs to be a discussion of the navigation model and navigation structures as much and probably before discussing the look. --=20 Russel. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n= et 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel russel.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Jul 04 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 7:09 PM, David Nadlinger <see klickverbot.at> wrote:

 On 7/4/11 7:56 PM, David Gileadi wrote:

 One concern I have is that the D site has a lot of pages, and the
 navigation can be a bit hairy. I'd like to see a mockup of a sub-page, a
 Phobos or Language Spec page for instance, that shows what
 sub-navigation would look like with your design.
Personally, I would suggest using every possible bit of screen real estat=
e
 to make the API documentation more accessible, with a symbol
 hierarchy/search results bar (identifier search like dpldocs.info) to the
 left and the main content area taking the rest of the browser window.

 The =C2=BBDDoc viewer=C2=AB would be integrated into the rest of the site=
with a thin
 bar at the top of the window, saying =C2=BB[<<< Back to main site.] D Sta=
ndard
 Library (Phobos) API documentation=C2=AB, and, most importantly, a dark
 background (hey, I had this idea before Google changed their design^^).
I find dark backgrounds to be a big strain on the eyes. (Some people must disagree though, e.g. those that rape their true-color monitors into displaying green text on a black background.)
 I have been planning to build something like this for ages, but just didn=
't
 find enough time to do so=E2=80=A6

 David
Jul 05 2011
prev sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Russel Winder <russel russel.org.uk> wrote:

 On Mon, 2011-07-04 at 11:56 -0600, David Gileadi wrote:
 [ . . . ]
 One concern I have is that the D site has a lot of pages, and the
 navigation can be a bit hairy.  I'd like to see a mockup of a sub-page,
 a Phobos or Language Spec page for instance, that shows what
 sub-navigation would look like with your design.
Although my familiarity with the experimental studies is now 12+ years old, and so arguably a little out of date, the headline from then was that there is a very complex interaction between "immediate visual impact", "navigability", and "need to use". If the "immediate visual impact" of a page is poor then there has to be a very high "need to use" for "navigability" to be a factor. Similarly if the "navigability" is poor then "need to use" has to be high for good "immediate visual impact" to offset the problems. In the middle ground there is a lot of individual preference. Of course where "immediate visual impact" and "navigability" are good "need to use" falls away as a factor, and indeed the web site enters the realm of being a positive draw. So what is my point? Much of the debate recently has been about "immediate visual impact" and from what I can tell, none has been about "navigability". Without there being an easily inferable navigation model, there are always going to be problems, and often they manifest as grumbles about "immediate visual impact" whereas in fact the problem is a lack of "navigability". Basically, I think there needs to be a discussion of the navigation model and navigation structures as much and probably before discussing the look.
Hi Russel, you're right: most of the discussion has been about visual impact, yet navigation is absolutely crucial. By designing a homepage I've given the impression that I just want to design a "showpiece" site. This is wrong and I've been giving thought to navigation, but haven't had the confidence to properly tackle it yet. There are a few things I'm reasonably sure of: - Documentation (language and library reference) is 95% of the challenge. Navigation of the rest of the site, which is either just single top-level pages or lists of pages (e.g. Howtos), pales in comparison. - Documentation should not be squished into the rest of the navigation. I much prefer the approach taken by languages that host docs in a sub-site. This works because I visit their documentation all the time, but the rest of the site only rarely. Pop quiz: how many of you visit http://www.d-programming-language.org/ every day to read the quote from Andrei? Not many I'd bet -- you go there as a waypoint in getting to the docs. - Navigation design should be based heavily on experience. I'd like everyone's input on what online documentation exists that really works, and what aspects of it work. (For instance, I like it when all exported symbols are listed at the top of the page, like this <http://golang.org/pkg/io/> .)
Jul 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jose Armando Garcia <jsancio gmail.com> writes:
	charset=utf-8;
	format=flowed;
	delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey, in general I like what you are doing and I find it an improvement =20=

on the current site.

I quickly looked at your site and I notice the ubuntu logo. I really =20
like their logo and what in represent (people holding hands, =20
community, solidaridarity). Why don't we use something similar for =20
inspiration for D's logo. For D we can use duality and have the two =20
moons of mars represent that duality. For example these are dualities =20=

that are first class citizens in D: Functional vs OO, Stack (struct) =20
vs heap (class), message passing (Tid) vs shared memory (shared), =20
runtime polymorphism (inheritance and override)  vs compile time =20
(template), etc.

I am currently unable to create an image for inspiration due to lack =20
of access to a decent computer and lack of skill creating digital =20
images. I'll try to play with the concept and submit some drafts. =20
Maybe the yin-yang symbol can be of inspiration.

Note: I have noticed that I have an attraction/affinity to circles

Em 04/07/2011, =C3=A0s 07:50, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> =20
escreveu:

 A second draft: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup2.png

 Changes:

 Swapped out logo for more conservative change.
 Reduction in size of the tabs.
 Search bar.
 Quick-download thing.  Would have to use OS/arch detection to be =20
 effective.
 Moved code down into page.  Could expand.

 And important point that's not evident is that I'm designing for =20
 variable-width.  That image is for 1600px width, but that could =20
 shrink.

 On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:42 AM, James Fisher =20
 <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote:
 On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Jonathan M Davis =20
 <jmdavisProg gmx.com> wrote:
 Overall, I'd say that I have to agree. I like the current look and =20
 feel of d-
 programming-language.org, and I don't see anything wrong with its =20
 logo either
 (and it looks _way_ better than any of the logos suggested here =20
 IMHO). I'm
 sure that the site could be improved, but the kind of stuff being =20
 discussed in
 this thread is incredibly subjective and it doesn't generally seem =20
 like much
 of an improvement. d-programming-language.org is generally a step up =20=
 from how
 www.digitalmars.com looks, and the website situation has been =20
 improving. So
 truth be told, I don't understand this discussion at all. It seems =20
 to me like
 it's a bikeshedding argument on website and logo design. I'm sure =20
 that help on
 d-programming-language.org would be appreciated, but working on =20
 redesigning
 the website _again_ seems to me like a waste of time which would be =20=
 better
 spent elsewhere.

 I'm not sure what gave the impression that the people in this thread =20=
 want to start again from scratch, but that impression seems to be =20
 the source of some hostility.  At least in my case, that's *not* =20
 what I'm proposing.  Pretty much everything here can be categorized =20=
 as formalizing, cleaning up, or improving work that's already been =20
 done.
Jul 04 2011
parent David Nadlinger <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On 7/4/11 4:14 PM, Jose Armando Garcia wrote:
 […]  Why don't we use something similar for inspiration for
 D's logo. For D we can use duality and have the two moons of mars
 represent that duality. For example these are dualities that are first
 class citizens in D: Functional vs OO, Stack (struct) vs heap (class),
 message passing (Tid) vs shared memory (shared), runtime polymorphism
 (inheritance and override) vs compile time (template), etc.
I have also been thinking about this, not so much about the duality aspect, but simply the fact that D allows you to easily express a number of different concepts (template metaprogramming, OOP, functional programming, …) and in most cases to freely mix and match as you see fit, but I wasn't really able to come up with an idea how to express this in logo form. The only thing coming to my mind was different abstract geometric shapes, but I just couldn't get a finished image to appear in front of my mind's eye… David
Jul 04 2011
prev sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Jose Armando Garcia <jsancio gmail.com>wrote:

 Hey, in general I like what you are doing and I find it an improvement on
 the current site.

 I quickly looked at your site and I notice the ubuntu logo. I really like
 their logo and what in represent (people holding hands, community,
 solidaridarity).
Ubuntu has perhaps the best brand awareness of perhaps any OSS project in the world: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-brand-guidelines/ (It's perhaps no coincidence that it's also the most popular distro.)
 Why don't we use something similar for inspiration for D's logo. For D we
 can use duality and have the two moons of mars represent that duality. For
 example these are dualities that are first class citizens in D: Functional
 vs OO, Stack (struct) vs heap (class), message passing (Tid) vs shared
 memory (shared), runtime polymorphism (inheritance and override)  vs compile
 time (template), etc.

 I am currently unable to create an image for inspiration due to lack of
 access to a decent computer and lack of skill creating digital images. I'll
 try to play with the concept and submit some drafts.
Everything appreciated!
Jul 04 2011
prev sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 10:52:07 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu  
<SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:

 On 7/3/11 7:15 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com
 <mailto:doob me.com>> wrote:

     On 2011-07-02 23:01, James Fisher wrote:

         So, here's a website mockup:
         http://eegg.github.com/d-__brand/mockup.png
         <http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png>

         Comments appreciated.


     In general I like it. I think the top tabs are a little too big. You
     could cut the height in half I think, it's wasting a too much
     vertical space. You can easily cut off 30px above and below the text
     in the tabs.


 That is true, though I do have a few reasons for keeping 'em big:

 - I think the composition works better with it being a half or a third
 of the height of the sand-color banner.
 - potentially, a second layer of links could be introduced.  (Though in
 general I shy away from multi-level top-level links as over-engineered,
 unless the site is really complex, which it's not.)
 - on other pages, e.g. the docs, I'm considering having the logo in the
 dark banner (at the same x-pos).  This would require some space.
 - last but not least, it's the web, not paper, and we have all the space
 we want for free!

     I would be nice to see a mouckup of one page from the language
     reference and one from the library reference, for example:

     http://d-programming-language.__org/lex.html
     <http://d-programming-language.org/lex.html>
     http://d-programming-language.__org/phobos/std_string.html
     <http://d-programming-language.org/phobos/std_string.html>


 I'll come up with those when I stop playing around with Inkscape, and
 mock up in HTML/CSS.
One thing that's going somewhat unnoticed in this discussion is that the site is at the end of a major redesign cycle during which people in this group gave extensive input on the logo, the color scheme, the fonts, the page design - pretty much all aspects of the website. I find it surprising that all that is now as if it never existed.
The page design hasn't changed very much. As far as I recall (and I didn't participate a lick in the discussions), no major site design discussions occurred. But maybe I just didn't look at any of the alternatives when they were posted. If it's worth anything, I like the coloring and logo scheme of the current site, but I like the design of James' mockup better. -Steve
Jul 04 2011
parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
<schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:
 If it's worth anything, I like the coloring and logo scheme of the current
 site, but I like the design of James' mockup better.
Do you mean "the current one is good, but I prefer James' mockup", or "James' design is best, but I prefer the old coloring and logo scheme"? (Just because I'd like your opinion.)
Jul 05 2011
parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 04:39:31 -0400, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>  
wrote:

 On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
 <schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:
 If it's worth anything, I like the coloring and logo scheme of the  
 current
 site, but I like the design of James' mockup better.
Do you mean "the current one is good, but I prefer James' mockup", or "James' design is best, but I prefer the old coloring and logo scheme"? (Just because I'd like your opinion.)
Not sure what the subtlety is I'm missing, but I'll try to clarify: I like your site design (the layout) but I like the color scheme of the current d-p-l.org site. The logo on d-p-l.org I don't mind, and I also like your mockup logo. I could go either way on the logo. In any case, both look more professional than the current digitalmars.com site (no offense to Walter). I think others have brought up good points about being able to navigate the library documentation -- the tabs will not scale well for that. So do you have ideas on how that will look? It should *not* be a popup menu or dropdown. I think it necessarily has to be a navigation bar on the left. -Steve
Jul 05 2011
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 7/5/11 6:21 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
 On Tue, 05 Jul 2011 04:39:31 -0400, James Fisher
 <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote:

 On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Steven Schveighoffer
 <schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:
 If it's worth anything, I like the coloring and logo scheme of the
 current
 site, but I like the design of James' mockup better.
Do you mean "the current one is good, but I prefer James' mockup", or "James' design is best, but I prefer the old coloring and logo scheme"? (Just because I'd like your opinion.)
Not sure what the subtlety is I'm missing, but I'll try to clarify: I like your site design (the layout) but I like the color scheme of the current d-p-l.org site. The logo on d-p-l.org I don't mind, and I also like your mockup logo.
Speaking of the recurring appearance of the shortcut d-p-l.org, it's worth mentioning that Brad Robert graciously bought that domain and forwarded it to d-programming-language.org. Thanks Brad, Andrei
Jul 05 2011
parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu <
SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> wrote:
 Speaking of the recurring appearance of the shortcut d-p-l.org, it's worth
 mentioning that Brad Robert graciously bought that domain and forwarded it
 to d-programming-language.org.
Hey, look at that! I never thought to click on it. Great work Brad! (Also, not to complain, but it would be *extra* awesome if it forwarded to the requested path -- i.e., a request to "d-p-l.org/<arbitrary path>" forwards to "d-programming-language.org/<arbitrary path>". Not sure how much work that would be.)
Jul 05 2011
parent reply David Nadlinger <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On 7/5/11 1:52 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org <mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>>
 wrote:

     Speaking of the recurring appearance of the shortcut d-p-l.org
     <http://d-p-l.org>, it's worth mentioning that Brad Robert
     graciously bought that domain and forwarded it to
     d-programming-language.org <http://d-programming-language.org>.
Aww, seems like I wasn't the only one who had that idea when the domain was still available – now I need to contact my hoster on how to get my 9.99€ back… ;)
 (Also, not to complain, but it would be *extra* awesome if it forwarded
 to the requested path -- i.e., a request to "d-p-l.org/
 <http://d-p-l.org/><arbitrary path>" forwards to
 "d-programming-language.org/
 <http://d-programming-language.org/><arbitrary path>".  Not sure how
 much work that would be.)
That should be just a trivial change to the redirection rule used with most web servers… David
Jul 05 2011
next sibling parent Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 05.07.2011 16:27, schrieb David Nadlinger:
 On 7/5/11 1:52 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu
 <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org <mailto:SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org>>
 wrote:

     Speaking of the recurring appearance of the shortcut d-p-l.org
     <http://d-p-l.org>, it's worth mentioning that Brad Robert
     graciously bought that domain and forwarded it to
     d-programming-language.org <http://d-programming-language.org>.
Aww, seems like I wasn't the only one who had that idea when the domain was still available – now I need to contact my hoster on how to get my 9.99€ back… ;)
Your hoster charges you for registering a domain that belongs to someone else?
Jul 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Russel Winder <russel russel.org.uk> writes:
On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 16:27 +0200, David Nadlinger wrote:
[ . . . ]
 That should be just a trivial change to the redirection rule used with=
=20
 most web servers=E2=80=A6
Shouldn't the redirect be at the DNS level rather than the Web server level? Currently it isn't, perhaps it should be? This would solve the "rest of the URL should still work" problem someone raised. --=20 Russel. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 voip: sip:russel.winder ekiga.n= et 41 Buckmaster Road m: +44 7770 465 077 xmpp: russel russel.org.uk London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk skype: russel_winder
Jul 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2011, Russel Winder wrote:

 On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 16:27 +0200, David Nadlinger wrote:
 [ . . . ]
 That should be just a trivial change to the redirection rule used with 
 most web servers?
Shouldn't the redirect be at the DNS level rather than the Web server level? Currently it isn't, perhaps it should be? This would solve the "rest of the URL should still work" problem someone raised.
I specifically want a redirect rather than to just work. The reason being that I think we want what's indexed and what's "real" so to speak to be the long form. I meant to change the redirect config to keep the trailing path, but didn't get around to it this weekend. I'll do that tonight.
Jul 05 2011
parent David Nadlinger <see klickverbot.at> writes:
On 7/6/11 1:03 AM, Brad Roberts wrote:
 I meant to change the redirect config to keep the trailing path, but
 didn't get around to it this weekend.  I'll do that tonight.
You might also want to change the redirect status code to 301 (moved permanently), but I'm not sure, maybe the search engines interpret 302 just the same anyway. David
Jul 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Brad Roberts <braddr puremagic.com> writes:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2011, Brad Roberts wrote:

 On Tue, 5 Jul 2011, Russel Winder wrote:
 
 On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 16:27 +0200, David Nadlinger wrote:
 [ . . . ]
 That should be just a trivial change to the redirection rule used with 
 most web servers?
Shouldn't the redirect be at the DNS level rather than the Web server level? Currently it isn't, perhaps it should be? This would solve the "rest of the URL should still work" problem someone raised.
I specifically want a redirect rather than to just work. The reason being that I think we want what's indexed and what's "real" so to speak to be the long form. I meant to change the redirect config to keep the trailing path, but didn't get around to it this weekend. I'll do that tonight.
All set, the path is maintained now and the redirect is a 301 rather than 302. Also, both www.d-p-l.org and just d-p-l.org for those that are alergic to typing www both redirect to www.d-programming-language.org. It's still recommended that any links go directly to the long name, if for no other reason than one less thing that can fail and it's just that much faster. Later, Brad
Jul 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
I was just trying out various domain names when I stumbled onto this:
http://www.dlang.org/
Jul 05 2011
prev sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
Hey look it hosts the docs:
http://dm.dlang.org/
Jul 05 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
My main concerns are

- genericity
- corporo-whore-ness
- (the logo is pretty much a placeholder; I'm not pushing that over any
others without approval)

Things I like:

- palette.  IMO it's clean, not too dull, and faithful to the original.
- Big Words.  I think every site should have a one-sentence introduction
(perhaps I have a short attention span).
- navigation at the top.  One reason for this is that it makes it very easy
to maintain consistency over multiple subsites (e.g. main, docs, forum,
etc): you just shove it in at the top.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 10:01 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>wrote:

 So, here's a website mockup: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png

 Comments appreciated.


 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 7:48 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>wrote:

 At the bottom of http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/ I'm working on a
 palette.  You'll find a list of the colors currently at d-p-l.org.  If
 nothing else, this list can be massively shortened.

 I've also got my own suggestion there.  The orangered is faithful to the
 original Digital Mars logo rather than to the current D logo.  IMO the
 current palette is a little dull; some sparse uses of this color could bring
 a page to life.  The two main other colors there are a very dark blue
 similar to that on d-p-l.org, and white.  The two others are different
 saturation and value of that dark blue.  All blues and the red are
 complements on the color wheel.


 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:59 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>wrote:

 You'll find descriptions of D at the bottom of
 http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/.  I'd appreciate anyone with a knack for
 editing or promotion to contribute.


 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 5:52 PM, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com>wrote:

 Jimmy Cao:

 What about this?

 http://i.imgur.com/toykT.png
The white border around the biggest moon is too much thin, I think (just as before). Bye, bearophile
Jul 02 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> wrote:

 The mockup looks pretty good.

 I think the current D website should incorporate the idea of having those
 big tab-like links up at the top.

 See:
 http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png
 http://ironpython.net/
 http://cobra-language.com/

 Right now there's just empty space.
Sure thing. Updated http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png, now with: - jumbo tabs - code sample - download links WRT the code sample, I think I remember seeing somewhere a web-hosted D installation? This for Go <http://golang.org/doc/play/> is one of my favourite features of their site (shame about the language itself). Such a thing for D would be a big attraction.
Jul 02 2011
parent reply Matthias Pleh <jens konrad.net> writes:
Am 03.07.2011 00:00, schrieb James Fisher:
 WRT the code sample, I think I remember seeing somewhere a web-hosted D
 installation? This for Go <http://golang.org/doc/play/> is one of my
 favourite features of their site (shame about the language itself).
   Such a thing for D would be a big attraction.
Adam Ruppe is working on that ... I thought, its already installed on d-p-l.org, but it seems not ... To your 'mockup.png' -> I already like your style, it's simple and beautiful. Keep up that great work. From the logos, I would prefer https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png
Jul 02 2011
parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:53 PM, Matthias Pleh <jens konrad.net> wrote:

 Am 03.07.2011 00:00, schrieb James Fisher:

 WRT the code sample, I think I remember seeing somewhere a web-hosted D
 installation? This for Go <http://golang.org/doc/play/> is one of my

 favourite features of their site (shame about the language itself).
  Such a thing for D would be a big attraction.
Adam Ruppe is working on that ... I thought, its already installed on d-p-l.org, but it seems not ...
Oh, cool. Yeah, I knew I'd seen something. Adam, any news?
 To your 'mockup.png' -> I already like your style, it's simple and
 beautiful. Keep up that great work.
Thank you.
From the logos, I would prefer
 https://github.com/eegg/d-**brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png<https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png>
I plan to hold an informal vote on the logo in a few days once all the entries are in. :-) I think the site design can proceed without that decision.
Jul 03 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
Incidentally, for the code sample, does anyone fancy coming up with the most
interesting code they can in about 5 lines at 30 chars per line?  Hello
World is pretty dull, but the sample at d-p-l.org is much too long for a
2-second glance.  The main things I think it should get across are:

- that D is like C and C++
- that D is better -- e.g., package/module system.  Not sure what else you
can get across.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:00 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> wrote:

 The mockup looks pretty good.

 I think the current D website should incorporate the idea of having those
 big tab-like links up at the top.

 See:
 http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png
 http://ironpython.net/
 http://cobra-language.com/

 Right now there's just empty space.
Sure thing. Updated http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png, now with: - jumbo tabs - code sample - download links WRT the code sample, I think I remember seeing somewhere a web-hosted D installation? This for Go <http://golang.org/doc/play/> is one of my favourite features of their site (shame about the language itself). Such a thing for D would be a big attraction.
Jul 02 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
Also, a big resource at D's disposal that's not properly exploited is
videos.  YouTube has quite a few that might make good advertising:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlVpPstLPEc (Google Tech talk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZqWGfv7bxw (Andrei is a big name, anything
with him in is good)

Other recommendations?


On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:05 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>wrote:

 Incidentally, for the code sample, does anyone fancy coming up with the
 most interesting code they can in about 5 lines at 30 chars per line?  Hello
 World is pretty dull, but the sample at d-p-l.org is much too long for a
 2-second glance.  The main things I think it should get across are:

 - that D is like C and C++
 - that D is better -- e.g., package/module system.  Not sure what else you
 can get across.

 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:00 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> wrote:

 The mockup looks pretty good.

 I think the current D website should incorporate the idea of having those
 big tab-like links up at the top.

 See:
 http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png
 http://ironpython.net/
 http://cobra-language.com/

 Right now there's just empty space.
Sure thing. Updated http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png, now with: - jumbo tabs - code sample - download links WRT the code sample, I think I remember seeing somewhere a web-hosted D installation? This for Go <http://golang.org/doc/play/> is one of my favourite features of their site (shame about the language itself). Such a thing for D would be a big attraction.
Jul 02 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Torarin <torarind gmail.com> writes:
2011/7/3 James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>:
 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> wrote:
 The mockup looks pretty good.
 I think the current D website should incorporate the idea of having thos=
e
 big tab-like links up at the top.
 See:
 http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png
 http://ironpython.net/
 http://cobra-language.com/
 Right now there's just empty space.
Sure thing. =A0Updated=A0http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/mockup.png, now=
=A0with:
 - jumbo tabs
 - code sample
 - download links
 WRT the code sample, I think I remember seeing somewhere a web-hosted D
 installation? This for Go=A0is one of my favourite features of their site
 (shame about the language itself). =A0Such a thing for D would be a big
 attraction.
Jumbo tabs great. Open Sans is pretty. I miss the colors in this: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/d-logo-11.png. I even like the font you used on that one, but I don't know how well it would work in combination with Open Sans. I think the code sample should go in the body of the page. Can you try one with the three colored celestial bodies by themselves and "The D Programming Language" more prominently sized in the header? You're doing great work with this! Torarin
Jul 02 2011
prev sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Torarin <torarind gmail.com> wrote:
 Jumbo tabs great. Open Sans is pretty. I miss the colors in this:
 http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/d-logo-11.png.
 I even like the font you used on that one, but I don't know how well
 it would work in combination with Open Sans.
Probably badly. Personally I think there's a line to tread between "fun" and "serious", and the combination of that logo and font hurdles over that line into "wacky".
 I think the code sample
 should go in the body of the page.
Sure thing, I'll try that. Feels like there should be something filling that space though. Perhaps a prominent "download" option, though I'm not really convinced by those: newbies won't be convinced to download straight away, and oldies won't be coming back to the site to download the compiler every five minutes, so I'm not sure who they cater to.
 Can you try one with the three
 colored celestial bodies by themselves and "The D Programming
 Language" more prominently sized in the header?
I'll try one with that logo. As for the actual text, I'm wondering whether it actually needs to be there at all. The fact that D is a programming language is made amply clear by context: code samples, massive text "D is a programming language ..." (!) on the front page, and every other page on the site will make that clear too.
 You're doing great work with this!
Thanks!
Jul 03 2011
prev sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
I've also been thinking about font choice.  High up on my list of goals for
a primary face are:

   - Transition.  The D sites I've seen show a preference for a simple,
   common sans; there's no obvious reason to sway from that.
   - Legibility and "dont-get-in-the-way-of-the-content"-ness.
   - Large character set.  The D community is international and all faces
   should respect this.
   - Free.  Having to purchase the face is a huge barrier to adoption.
   - Web-font embeddable.  Web fonts have gone past the point of being
   bleeding edge web tech by now and there's no reason not to use them to
   secure a cross-browser, cross-platform consistency.  Zero accessibility
   worries as the browser will just fall back to, say, Arial.

I've gone through the Google Web Font
Directory<http://www.google.com/webfonts/v2> with
these criteria.  The outstanding choice here is Open
Sans<http://www.google.com/webfonts/family?family=Open+Sans&subset=latin>,
which IMO has superb legibility and is also attractive, has a big character
set, is under the Apache License, and (bonus) has 10 variants for most
conceivable use from massive headings to smallprint (meaning it has
potential as a choice for our heading face as well).

(BTW, when considering these, look at the font at 16px.  That's the browser
default, and for good accessibility and legibility reasons, so there's no
reason to change it, so that's the size I think we'll be looking at it.)

You can see Open Sans in use at http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/


On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 4:43 PM, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> wrote:

 James Fisher:

 I've vectorized the Digital Mars logo.  http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/ (I
 think it's Arial in the original, but the M and S of my Arial is
 different??)  Perhaps this'll be useful some day.
I like this most: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/dlogo.png I like this too, but I think it's better to draw Phobos (the larger moon) a bit larger: http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/d-logo-5.png Bye, bearophile
Jul 02 2011
prev sibling parent reply SimonM <user example.net> writes:
Ooh, don't forget about the dsource logo:
http://www.dsource.org/chrome/dsource/img/dsource-logo.gif

and also the d-programming-language.org site's favicon:
http://d-programming-language.org/favicon.ico

On 2011/07/02 17:29 PM, James Fisher wrote:
 I've vectorized the Digital Mars logo. http://eegg.github.com/d-brand/
 (I think it's Arial in the original, but the M and S of my Arial is
 different??)  Perhaps this'll be useful some day.

 Barring the stretched text, there is something I like about the DM logo.
   The Mars there looks totally out of this world (hah).

 On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Jacob Carlborg <doob me.com
 <mailto:doob me.com>> wrote:

     On 2011-07-01 18:02, James Fisher wrote:

         A couple of things to keep in mind:

         I see every suggestion so far, including mine, uses letterplay,
         but a
         logo does not *have* to do this.  Note that Python's logo is not the
         word "python" made out of snakes, for example.  I see a lot of

         ameteur-looking logos around that seem to think that forcing a
         letter or
         word into a shape is the only way to do it.  The end result is,
         well, it
         looks forced, and that's bad.  I'm not advocating discarding the "D"
         route, but it's something to keep in mind.  This certainly opens up
         possibilities for simplicity.  There are many logos out there
         consisting
         of a simple graphic and some well-set text, and they look
         classy.  For
         example, we could run with the Mars theme, and *just* have a
         well-done
         stylized image of Mars.  Example:
         https://github.com/eegg/d-__brand/raw/master/d-logo-11.png
         <https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-11.png>__.


     I like that one.

     --
     /Jacob Carlborg
Jul 03 2011
parent Alix Pexton <alix.DOT.pexton gmail.DOT.com> writes:
On 03/07/2011 13:32, SimonM wrote:
 Ooh, don't forget about the dsource logo:
 http://www.dsource.org/chrome/dsource/img/dsource-logo.gif

 and also the d-programming-language.org site's favicon:
 http://d-programming-language.org/favicon.ico
Visual D has its own logo too, though it is partially inspired by that of Visual Studio... http://www.dsource.org/projects/visuald/browser/wiki/vd_logo.png?format=raw I started to do a more Martian version and realised that it reminded me too much of the old netscape logo >< The current logo (white on red) is still my favourite, though I think I see it differently to some of you. When I look at it, I see the letter D on a window that is looking out onto a view of 3 celestial bodies, but many of the new designs make the D into the planet. Of the new designs, I like Mafi's the most. A...
Jul 03 2011
prev sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
I note in passing how strangely similar D's logo is to Lua ...
http://www.lua.org/

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:28 PM, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>wrote:

 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy yahoo.com
 wrote:

 To be honest, I don't think this is the right direction.  D isn't the
 devil's language :)
Fair enough; I suppose that old logo was an oddity :)
 I also don't like the crescents.  They don't look right against the D.
  They also don't look like crescent moons, if that is what you are going
 for.

 I like the current d-programming-language.org logo the best so far.  I
 read your previous criticism about the circles, I don't see the breast
 reference too much, but the crescents are worse IMO.  Can you just put a
 line through the super-imposed circle that follows the curve of the letter,
 to make it look like the circle is behind it?  Not sure if this would look
 better, but it would certainly be better than the crescents.
Something like this? https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-3.png
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Mafi <mafi example.org> writes:
This is my try.
What do you guys think about it?
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent "Nick Sabalausky" <a a.a> writes:
"Mafi" <mafi example.org> wrote in message 
news:iuijee$2s0q$1 digitalmars.com...
 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
That's nice. I like the font for the D better than the orginal, which seemed a bit verticaly squished (probably adding to the boob effect). I think I'd want to lose the italic, though.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 6/30/11, Mafi <mafi example.org> wrote:
 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
That one's great! I think the D letter could be a little fatter or wider, just a tiny bit. I like it very much.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/30/2011 12:35 PM, Mafi wrote:
 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
Can't render svg files.
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> writes:
It looks really good.
Try opening it with a web browser like Firefox or Chrome.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound2 digitalmars.com>wrote:

 On 6/30/2011 12:35 PM, Mafi wrote:

 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
Can't render svg files.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Adam Richardson <simpleshot gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound2 digitalmars.com>wrote:

 On 6/30/2011 12:35 PM, Mafi wrote:

 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
Can't render svg files.
You can use this: http://svg-edit.googlecode.com/svn/branches/2.5.1/editor/svg-editor.html Adam
Jun 30 2011
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 6/30/2011 1:13 PM, Adam Richardson wrote:
 You can use this:
 http://svg-edit.googlecode.com/svn/branches/2.5.1/editor/svg-editor.html
Thanks!
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent Caligo <iteronvexor gmail.com> writes:
I like the current D logo, but I found these two:
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> writes:
Those are too shiny.
The current logo looks faded to me (would give me the impression that D is a
non-serious for-fun language).

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Caligo <iteronvexor gmail.com> wrote:

 I like the current D logo, but I found these two:
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
All images so far are in https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/

On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 5:10 AM, Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> wrote:

 Those are too shiny.
 The current logo looks faded to me (would give me the impression that D is
 a non-serious for-fun language).


 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Caligo <iteronvexor gmail.com> wrote:

 I like the current D logo, but I found these two:
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Walter Bright
<newshound2 digitalmars.com>wrote:

 On 6/30/2011 12:35 PM, Mafi wrote:

 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
Can't render svg files.
Here's Mafi's suggestion in PNG: https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/dlogo-mafi.png
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 6/30/11, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote:
 Here's Mafi's suggestion in PNG:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/dlogo-mafi.png
Odd, in my browser the D letter looked really thin when I viewed the SVG. Maybe it was a rendering bug.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com
 wrote:
 On 6/30/11, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> wrote:
 Here's Mafi's suggestion in PNG:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/dlogo-mafi.png
Odd, in my browser the D letter looked really thin when I viewed the SVG. Maybe it was a rendering bug.
GP -- Mafi left it in Verdana, which I don't have here, so that PNG is actually DejaVu Sans. Heh. Mafi, if you could convert to a path?
Jun 30 2011
parent reply Mafi <mafi example.org> writes:
Am 30.06.2011 22:39, schrieb James Fisher:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Andrej Mitrovic
 <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com <mailto:andrej.mitrovich gmail.com>> wrote:

     On 6/30/11, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com
     <mailto:jameshfisher gmail.com>> wrote:
      > Here's Mafi's suggestion in PNG:
      > https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/dlogo-mafi.png

     Odd, in my browser the D letter looked really thin when I viewed the
     SVG. Maybe it was a rendering bug.


 GP -- Mafi left it in Verdana, which I don't have here, so that PNG is
 actually DejaVu Sans.  Heh.  Mafi, if you could convert to a path?
Sometimes svg behaves odd... I've attached the path-version. I've also uploaded a rendering at http://imgur.com/J1pbr because the above looks a bit different than mine. Mafi PS: I license these images with CC-0.
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent "Tyro[a.c.edwards]" <nospam home.com> writes:
On 7/1/2011 5:58 AM, Mafi wrote:
 Am 30.06.2011 22:39, schrieb James Fisher:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Andrej Mitrovic
 <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com <mailto:andrej.mitrovich gmail.com>> wrote:

 On 6/30/11, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com
 <mailto:jameshfisher gmail.com>> wrote:
 Here's Mafi's suggestion in PNG:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/dlogo-mafi.png
Odd, in my browser the D letter looked really thin when I viewed the SVG. Maybe it was a rendering bug. GP -- Mafi left it in Verdana, which I don't have here, so that PNG is actually DejaVu Sans. Heh. Mafi, if you could convert to a path?
Sometimes svg behaves odd... I've attached the path-version. I've also uploaded a rendering at http://imgur.com/J1pbr because the above looks a bit different than mine.
Don't Spoil a good thing... The original size was perfect. Any bigger and, I'm starting to have doubts.
 Mafi

 PS: I license these images with CC-0.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Mafi <mafi example.org> wrote:

 PS: I license these images with CC-0.
Now on Wikimedia Commons (CC-0): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dlogo-mafi.png
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent reply Chris Molozian <chris cmoz.me> writes:
It's a great logo Mafi, is it possible to try it without the italics and 
see what that looks like?

IMHO it's between:

https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-7.png
AND
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/dlogo-mafi.png

Thanks for the hard work guys, beauty surrounding the D language is just 
as important (arguably more important) as the beauty of the language itself.

Chris


On 06/30/11 21:58, Mafi wrote:
 Am 30.06.2011 22:39, schrieb James Fisher:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Andrej Mitrovic
 <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com <mailto:andrej.mitrovich gmail.com>> wrote:

     On 6/30/11, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com
 <mailto:jameshfisher gmail.com>> wrote:
 Here's Mafi's suggestion in PNG:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/dlogo-mafi.png
Odd, in my browser the D letter looked really thin when I viewed the SVG. Maybe it was a rendering bug. GP -- Mafi left it in Verdana, which I don't have here, so that PNG is actually DejaVu Sans. Heh. Mafi, if you could convert to a path?
Sometimes svg behaves odd... I've attached the path-version. I've also uploaded a rendering at http://imgur.com/J1pbr because the above looks a bit different than mine. Mafi PS: I license these images with CC-0.
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent "Tyro[a.c.edwards]" <nospam home.com> writes:
On 7/1/2011 7:39 AM, Chris Molozian wrote:
 It's a great logo Mafi, is it possible to try it without the italics and
 see what that looks like?

 IMHO it's between:

 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-7.png
 AND
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/dlogo-mafi.png
Though I like d-logo-7, I think the logical choices rest between these two: http://envisionic.com/images/d-logo-draft.png AND http://imgur.com/J1pbr
 Thanks for the hard work guys, beauty surrounding the D language is just
 as important (arguably more important) as the beauty of the language
 itself.

 Chris
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent Mafi <mafi example.org> writes:
Am 01.07.2011 00:39, schrieb Chris Molozian:
 It's a great logo Mafi, is it possible to try it without the italics and
 see what that looks like?
Here are a non-italic and it's corresponding as-path version. I think I like the italic version a little bit more. Mafi
Jul 01 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent =?UTF-8?B?0JzQuNGF0LDQuNC7INCh0YLRgNCw0YjRg9C9?= <not now.sorry> writes:
I am just a read-only by-passer but I need to interfere and say this one 
is awesome :)

On 6/30/2011 10:35 PM, Mafi wrote:
 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Tyro[a.c.edwards]" <nospam home.com> writes:
On 7/1/2011 4:35 AM, Mafi wrote:
 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
Now there's an Idea. Simple yet elegant... no boobs and retains the historical reference to Mars and her two moons. I like it. I'll even take the italics. ++++++++++ Vote Oh wait, I only have one vote.
Jun 30 2011
parent reply bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Tyro[a.c.edwards]:

 Now there's an Idea. Simple yet elegant... no boobs and retains the 
 historical reference to Mars and her two moons. I like it. I'll even 
 take the italics.
 
 ++++++++++ Vote
 
 Oh wait, I only have one vote.
But Deimos is not so round :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deimos_%28moon%29 Bye, bearophile
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent reply Timon Gehr <timon.gehr gmx.ch> writes:
bearophile wrote:
 Tyro[a.c.edwards]:

 Now there's an Idea. Simple yet elegant... no boobs and retains the
 historical reference to Mars and her two moons. I like it. I'll even
 take the italics.

 ++++++++++ Vote

 Oh wait, I only have one vote.
But Deimos is not so round :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deimos_%28moon%29 Bye, bearophile
Same for Phobos ;). http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Phobos.jpg
Jun 30 2011
parent Andrej Mitrovic <andrej.mitrovich gmail.com> writes:
On 6/30/11, Timon Gehr <timon.gehr gmx.ch> wrote:
 Same for Phobos ;).

 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Phobos.jpg
LOL, that rock looks like a big flying turd! Anyway, my vote goes to Mafi's logo: http://imgur.com/J1pbr I'll definitely use this in GUI-enabled projects.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 17:41:30 -0400, bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com>  
wrote:

 Tyro[a.c.edwards]:

 Now there's an Idea. Simple yet elegant... no boobs and retains the
 historical reference to Mars and her two moons. I like it. I'll even
 take the italics.

 ++++++++++ Vote

 Oh wait, I only have one vote.
But Deimos is not so round :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deimos_%28moon%29
I found this amusing from the wikipedia article: "Deimos, like Mars' other moon Phobos, has spectra, albedos and densities similar to those of a C- or D-type asteroid." :) -Steve
Jul 01 2011
prev sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Mafi <mafi example.org> wrote:

 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
So, I do think yours has merit. The one gripe I have with it is a lack of obviousness. Compare: New Python user: "say, why's your logo made of snakes?" Pythoneer: "..." New D user: "say, why's your logo got two balls in it?" D programmer: "Well, hear me out. Originally, the language was going to be called Mars. But then it was called D, and it's too late to change it back. Now, the two balls are Mars' two moons. That's right, the D is Mars. Yes, the D is see-through, but it was ugly to have the moons on the side, so you just have to stretch to see the illusion. And yes, the moons should be irregular shapes, but that was ugly too." Not sure if that gets my point across but I'm just trying to think from the perspective of someone outside the community. Which, of course, is what we should be doing.
Jul 01 2011
next sibling parent %u <asmasm hotmail.com> writes:
related
http://www.blog.spoongraphics.co.uk/articles/a-guide-to-creating-professional-quality-logo-designs
maybe that help
Jul 01 2011
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 12:08:17 -0400, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>  
wrote:

 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Mafi <mafi example.org> wrote:

 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?
So, I do think yours has merit. The one gripe I have with it is a lack of obviousness. Compare: New Python user: "say, why's your logo made of snakes?" Pythoneer: "..." New D user: "say, why's your logo got two balls in it?" D programmer: "Well, hear me out. Originally, the language was going to be called Mars. But then it was called D, and it's too late to change it back. Now, the two balls are Mars' two moons. That's right, the D is Mars. Yes, the D is see-through, but it was ugly to have the moons on the side, so you just have to stretch to see the illusion. And yes, the moons should be irregular shapes, but that was ugly too." Not sure if that gets my point across but I'm just trying to think from the perspective of someone outside the community. Which, of course, is what we should be doing.
I think you are way overthinking this... rule #1 -- the logo should have the letter 'D' in it. and, um... that's it :) BTW, your comparison isn't correct. I'd compare: "Why does the python logo contain snakes" to "Why does the D logo contain the letter D", and "Why does the D logo contain balls" to "Why does the python logo look like a + sign". -Steve
Jul 01 2011
parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Steven Schveighoffer <schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:

 I think you are way overthinking this...
I've never quite understood what "overthinking" actually means. If you mean exploring all possible trains of thought the viewer, I'll take that as a compliment. By all means disagree with what I say -- it's either valid or it's not (it may well not be!). rule #1 -- the logo should have the letter 'D' in it.
 and, um... that's it :)
That is most definitely *not* it. By your specification, would you be happy with just the 'D' from Comic Sans? There is a huge number of explicit and implicit rules and guidelines to consider when creating the one image that will represent your project for time immemorial. That's why there are books, websites, careers forged on this. I'm not a designer by trade either, but in the absence of D being able to hire a design company we're trying to do it ourselves, rather than just dismissing the need for the job being done. </rant> BTW, your comparison isn't correct. I'd compare: "Why does the python logo
 contain snakes" to "Why does the D logo contain the letter D", and "Why does
 the D logo contain balls" to "Why does the python logo look like a + sign".
This is fair; that is a strange stylistic decision and I'm not sure what it means.
Jul 02 2011
parent "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy yahoo.com> writes:
On Sat, 02 Jul 2011 03:42:42 -0400, James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com>  
wrote:

 On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Steven Schveighoffer  
 <schveiguy yahoo.com>wrote:

 I think you are way overthinking this...
I've never quite understood what "overthinking" actually means. If you mean exploring all possible trains of thought the viewer, I'll take that as a compliment. By all means disagree with what I say -- it's either valid or it's not (it may well not be!).
Then I disagree -- the case you bring up is obscure, plus it makes an assumption that having to explain historical references in the logo is a negative. The main focus of the logo is the D, the moons might generate some trivia questions, but is that really a turnoff?
 rule #1 -- the logo should have the letter 'D' in it.
 and, um... that's it :)
That is most definitely *not* it. By your specification, would you be happy with just the 'D' from Comic Sans?
No. But it would qualify as a D logo candidate -- it has a D in it. I didn't imply that we should randomly select from all possible logos that have a D in it to be our logo. I was saying that we should not make any other rules disqualifying a logo because of some obscure invented situation that might occur. As long as there's a D in it, it can be considered as a logo, and if it generates quizzical looks, who cares?
 There is a huge number of explicit and implicit rules and guidelines to
 consider when creating the one image that will represent your project for
 time immemorial.  That's why there are books, websites, careers forged on
 this.
As a non-designer, this is the *only* rule I would go by to disqualify a logo for D -- if it doesn't have a D in it, I don't think it should be the logo for D. I'll leave all the asthetics and other things up to the real designers. I can only say what I like and don't like, I have no skill to design such things. -Steve
Jul 04 2011
prev sibling parent reply Mafi <mafi example.org> writes:
Am 01.07.2011 18:08, schrieb James Fisher:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Mafi <mafi example.org
 <mailto:mafi example.org>> wrote:

     This is my try.
     What do you guys think about it?


 So, I do think yours has merit.  The one gripe I have with it is a lack
 of obviousness.  Compare:

 New Python user: "say, why's your logo made of snakes?"
 Pythoneer: "..."
where "..." is "Well, the creator of the language was a fan of Monty Python. So he decided to call the language python. Now, when they needed a logo, they just decieded to reinterpret 'python' and made the logo out of snakes. When now somebody sees a snake in programming context he thinks of 'python', the only language whose name *sounds* like the name of a snake." But you're right. With 'python' it's anyways a lot more obvious than with 'D'.
Jul 01 2011
parent Mafi <mafi example.org> writes:
Am 01.07.2011 19:21, schrieb Mafi:
 Am 01.07.2011 18:08, schrieb James Fisher:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Mafi <mafi example.org
 <mailto:mafi example.org>> wrote:

 This is my try.
 What do you guys think about it?


 So, I do think yours has merit. The one gripe I have with it is a lack
 of obviousness. Compare:

 New Python user: "say, why's your logo made of snakes?"
 Pythoneer: "..."
where "..." is "Well, the creator of the language was a fan of Monty Python. So he decided to call the language python. Now, when they needed a logo, they just decieded to reinterpret 'python' and made the logo out of snakes. When now somebody sees a snake in programming context he thinks of 'python', the only language whose name *sounds* like the name of a snake." But you're right. With 'python' it's anyways a lot more obvious than with 'D'.
In the last sentence I mean the D logo and the python logo and the planets and snakes respectively.
Jul 01 2011
prev sibling parent reply "Tyro[a.c.edwards]" <nospam home.com> writes:
On 7/1/2011 12:38 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png
That explains it! The Devil's religion. Nope... Definitely not interested.
 More playing around.  Criticisms:

 - it's a bit busy
 - as a rule, gradients don't add any worth
 - mixes planet/devil metaphors to a degree that the planet metaphor is lost
Jun 30 2011
next sibling parent reply James Fisher <jameshfisher gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Tyro[a.c.edwards] <nospam home.com> wrote:

 On 7/1/2011 12:38 AM, James Fisher wrote:

 https://github.com/eegg/d-**brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png<https://github=
.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png>

 That explains it! The Devil's religion. Nope... Definitely not interested=
. IC ... =E0=B2=A0_=E0=B2=A0
Jun 30 2011
parent "Tyro[a.c.edwards]" <nospam home.com> writes:
On 7/1/2011 5:37 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Tyro[a.c.edwards] <nospam home.com
 <mailto:nospam home.com>> wrote:

     On 7/1/2011 12:38 AM, James Fisher wrote:

         https://github.com/eegg/d-__brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png
         <https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png>


     That explains it! The Devil's religion. Nope... Definitely not
     interested.


 IC ... ಠ_ಠ
Don't get me wrong... It looks good... but it's the wrong clothing for D the Language.
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent Daniel Gibson <metalcaedes gmail.com> writes:
Am 30.06.2011 22:27, schrieb Tyro[a.c.edwards]:
 On 7/1/2011 12:38 AM, James Fisher wrote:
 https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-1.png
That explains it! The Devil's religion. Nope... Definitely not interested.
Reminds me of http://rmitz.org/freebsd.daemon.html which is about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bsd_daemon.jpg
Jun 30 2011
prev sibling parent Jimmy Cao <jcao219 gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 5:55 AM, Walter Bright
<newshound2 digitalmars.com>wrote:

 On 6/30/2011 12:38 AM, James Fisher wrote:

 (For the moment, I'm leaving the can of worms I've opened in the other
 thread,
 in favour of getting something done.)

 I'm proposing that D needs some form of official brand identity.  This
 would
 include things like:

    * An official logo.  I've seen a bazillion around.  Something in SVG,
      appropriate all the way down from posters to icons, would be nice.
        Variations including a logotype (i.e., including the words "D
      Programming Language"), at a couple of aspect ratios, would be highly
 useful.
We've pretty much settled on the logo used on d-programming-language.org. It would be nice to get it rendered in various sizes.
I didn't quite think that logo was clean enough, so I sketched another for the wikibook. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/File:D_Logo_Red_and_Black_Striped.png
Jun 30 2011