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digitalmars.D - D 2.0

reply Arth Lloyd Flores <floresarthlloyd gmail.com> writes:
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Is D 2.0 still in alpha?

-- 
-Arth

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Is D 2.0 still in alpha?<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>-Arth<br>

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Jul 24 2010
next sibling parent reply Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
 Is D 2.0 still in alpha?

It's in beta. Somewhat.
Jul 24 2010
next sibling parent reply BCS <none anon.com> writes:
Hello Trass3r,

 Is D 2.0 still in alpha?
 


The language? More like an RC. DMD? Beta. -- ... <IXOYE><
Jul 24 2010
next sibling parent reply Peter Alexander <peter.alexander.au gmail.com> writes:
On 25/07/10 5:21 AM, BCS wrote:
 Hello Trass3r,

 Is D 2.0 still in alpha?


The language? More like an RC. DMD? Beta.

And Phobos, I'd say, is still in alpha. Half the simple stuff in there doesn't work, never mind anything that's complex. e.g. Array!int causes a compile error, and most ranges that are meant to be forward ranges, aren't.
Jul 25 2010
parent levenshtein <distance fun.org> writes:
Peter Alexander Wrote:

 On 25/07/10 5:21 AM, BCS wrote:
 Hello Trass3r,

 Is D 2.0 still in alpha?


The language? More like an RC. DMD? Beta.

And Phobos, I'd say, is still in alpha. Half the simple stuff in there doesn't work, never mind anything that's complex. e.g. Array!int causes a compile error, and most ranges that are meant to be forward ranges, aren't.

At least it doesn't have any license issues.
Jul 25 2010
prev sibling parent reply bearophile <bearophileHUGS lycos.com> writes:
Trass3r:
 Now they seem to intend to remove scope too (didn't read the topic  
 thoroughly though, I'm sick of all those "remove every single keyword  
 there is in the language" threads)

The Scope!() replacement for scope is not good enough yet: 1) The compiler doesn't test for escapes (as dmd currently naively does for scoped objects); 2) There is no way to denote a class that must be scoped; 3) There is this problem: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4500 I think Andrei's (wrong) strategy is to remove things first, and then try to invent ways to patch the holes left by the removed stuff. So far the idea of removing scope is a failure, it produces more problems than it solves. Bye, bearophile
Jul 25 2010
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 07/25/2010 08:22 AM, bearophile wrote:
 Trass3r:
 Now they seem to intend to remove scope too (didn't read the topic
 thoroughly though, I'm sick of all those "remove every single
 keyword there is in the language" threads)

The Scope!() replacement for scope is not good enough yet: 1) The compiler doesn't test for escapes (as dmd currently naively does for scoped objects); 2) There is no way to denote a class that must be scoped; 3) There is this problem: http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=4500 I think Andrei's (wrong) strategy is to remove things first, and then try to invent ways to patch the holes left by the removed stuff. So far the idea of removing scope is a failure, it produces more problems than it solves.

The issue is that the scope keyword is impossible to check against escapes without extra additions to the language (e.g. marking a method or a function parameter as scoped). Such an uncheckable pattern is best left to a library feature, it doesn't deserve a keyword. I agree that scoped() has weaknesses that should be looked into, but scope must go. Andrei
Jul 25 2010
parent reply Tomek =?UTF-8?B?U293acWEc2tp?= <just ask.me> writes:
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 but scope must go

But scope(exit) stays, right?
Jul 25 2010
parent reply BCS <none anon.com> writes:
Hello Tomek,

 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 
 but scope must go
 


Totally different thing. :) -- ... <IXOYE><
Jul 25 2010
next sibling parent Tomek =?UTF-8?B?U293acWEc2tp?= <just ask.me> writes:
BCS wrote:

 Hello Tomek,
 
 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 
 but scope must go
 


Totally different thing. :)

Phew.. He did say "it doesn't deserve a keyword" so I got scared ;)
Jul 25 2010
prev sibling parent Olivier Pisano <olivier.pisano laposte.net> writes:
Le 25/07/2010 22:40, BCS a écrit :
 Hello Tomek,

 Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

 but scope must go


Totally different thing. :)

post :) I am relieved scope (exit|failure|success) is not on the removal list. Olivier
Jul 25 2010
prev sibling next sibling parent Trass3r <un known.com> writes:
 The language? More like an RC.

Well typedef is to be removed, delete has pretty much been deprecated as I heard. Now they seem to intend to remove scope too (didn't read the topic thoroughly though, I'm sick of all those "remove every single keyword there is in the language" threads)
Jul 25 2010
prev sibling parent Michael Rynn <michaelrynn optusnet.com.au> writes:
 The issue is that the scope keyword is impossible to check against
 escapes without extra additions to the language (e.g. marking a method
 or a function parameter as scoped). Such an uncheckable pattern is best
 left to a library feature, it doesn't deserve a keyword. I agree that
 scoped() has weaknesses that should be looked into, but scope must go.
 
 Andrei

In D2.0 I like the scope storage for optionally allocating a class on the stack, and found a use for it. The class was specially designed to be aware of its storage status. class FlexyStore { ... bool isScoped_; ... If its not going to be a key word, I would still like to have the facility optimized, and if allocating a class on the stack is out, I would redesign and use a struct. Not all patterns may be fully checkable at compile time. Might as well ask if any particular program halts. Use with caution. A language is not complete if you cannot hang yourself with it. I did not like putting this as a class property. scope class RigidStore { } I have difficulty finding online any clear statement of intent, rationale, extent, probability or time frame of removal of the keyword. We must be still in the experimental can do everything with templates phase. There are hints on the news group, but an update central documentation of future directions. For instance there is a "Future Directions" URL in the sidebar menu that has not changed for years, mentions template inheritance, array operations, without details. At face value its very un- impressive, looks like a web page that was bookmarked and then never worked on. There is a more comprehensive D2.0 enhancements, that describes Core language changes, but does not mention scope storage. It would be good as a community to have the changers publish, explain rumours of oncoming changes better. External communication should explicate some things, since the internal brain modules of our changes are pressured to communicate and think more, and I can adjust my future expectations. Michael.
Jul 28 2010
prev sibling parent Arth Lloyd Flores <floresarthlloyd gmail.com> writes:
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Nice one.. Thanks for the reply Trass3r...

I'm so excited [?]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Trass3r <un known.com> wrote:

 Is D 2.0 still in alpha?

It's in beta. Somewhat.

-- -Arth --e0cb4e8878e3546e4c048c2c3f56 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nice one.. Thanks for the reply Trass3r...=A0<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m so= excited=A0<img src=3D"cid:360 goomoji.gmail" style=3D"margin-top: 0px; mar= gin-right: 0.2ex; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.2ex; vertical-align: m= iddle; " goomoji=3D"360"><br> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Trass3r <sp= an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:un known.com">un known.com</a>&gt;</sp= an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;= border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> <div class=3D"im"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .= 8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Is D 2.0 still in alpha?<br> </blockquote> <br></div> It&#39;s in beta. Somewhat.<br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>-Arth<br> </div> --e0cb4e8878e3546e4c048c2c3f56-- --e0cb4e8878e3546e50048c2c3f57 Content-Type: image/gif; name="360.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: 360 goomoji.gmail Content-ID: <360 goomoji.gmail> R0lGODlhDAAPAKIFAJh3AP/zxAAAANyuAP/gaP///wAAAAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh +QQJAAAFACwAAAAADAAPAAADLVi63P6wjEmrDDjrGYj/H0cIIElwpJmeQweC4hu2BGDfnnjjrLvP LtlJUikWEgAh+QQJAAAFACwAAAAADAAPAAADLVi63M4jyllGuDjHQLr3GyF8I7GNJWpaXxu2IAvM dBfS9coReLzDpspk+HAkAAAh+QQJCgAFACwAAAAADAAPAAADLVi6vPMwlhGqvS+QzXkmQhcSWTia JNWt3+qpQCxvnzynGmG/uUtOkWBjSCQmAAAh+QQJFAAFACwAAAAADAAPAAADLViz3BowyhWIvZcS gTmhnBd+Q4Vh2pmVBOC+lvbCpDmvpvopTV/8wKBwSCwWEgAh+QQJCgAFACwAAAAADAAPAAADLVi6 vPMwlhGqvS+QzXkmQhcSWTiaJNWt3+qpQCxvnzynGmG/uUtOkWBjSCQmAAAh+QQFAAAFACwAAAAA DAAPAAADLVi63M4jyllGuDjHQLr3GyF8I7GNJWpaXxu2IAvMdBfS9coReLzDpspk+HAkAAA7 --e0cb4e8878e3546e50048c2c3f57--
Jul 24 2010