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digitalmars.D - DIP66 v1.1 (Multiple) alias this.

reply "IgorStepanov" <wazar mail.ru> writes:
http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP66

I've applied some changes to it, however there are still some 
unresolved questions.

 Here's my destruction:

 * "symbol can be a field or a get-property (method annotated 
 with  property and taking zero parameters)." -> actually:

 (a) the  property annotation is not necessary
 (b) there may be one ore more parameters so long as they're all 
 defaulted

 So the text should be "obj.symbol must be a valid expression".
Done.
 * "At the AliasThis declaration semantic stage, the compiler 
 can perform the initial checks and reject the obviously 
 incorrect AliasThis declarations." -> it might be simpler (for 
 the sake of simplifying generic code) to just delay all error 
 checking to the first use.
I disagree with that. Current check is not recursive and prevent you code from a silly errors: struct X(T, V) { T t; V v; alias t this; alias v this; //Error if is(T == V). However this code is fundamentally broken, and this error should be raised as soon as possible. } class A : B { B b; alias b this; //Error: super type (B) always hides "aliasthised" type B because base classes should be processed before alias this types. }
 * I don't think the pseudocode helps a lot. Better let's have a 
 clear and precise specification (I've edited the lookup order 
 into an ordered list).
Done.
 * Regarding the lookup, opDispatch shouldn't come before alias 
 this, or should come before base class lookup. Essentially 
 alias this is subtyping so it should enjoy similar privileges 
 to base classes. A different way to look at it is opDispatch is 
 a "last resort" lookup mechanism, just one step above the UFCS 
 lowering.
I agree with this suggestion, however it breaks an existing code. opDispatch shouldn't come before base type lookup, because it will hide basic methods like toString. opDispatch may come after alias this lookup, however it will fundamentally change program behaviour. Current (implemented is released compiler) behaviour: import std.stdio; struct Base { string foo() { return "Base.foo"; } } struct Derived { Base b; alias b this; string opDispatch(string s)() { return "opDispatch"; } } void main() { Derived d; writeln(d.foo()); //prints "opDispatch" } After your change this call will write "Base.foo". And I see no way to add third "transitional" state to allow users rewrite those code correctly. This changing will suddenly, without any warning, change a user code. I understand that this case is very rare however it may be. And, TBH, this issue not relevant with multiple alias this :-)
 * The DIP should specify the working of alias this as 
 rewrites/lowerings, not pseudocode. Basically for each kth 
 declaration "alias symbolk this;" the compiler rewrites 
 "obj.xyz" as "obj.symbolk.xyz" and then does the usual lookup 
 on that expression. That means the whole algorithms is applied 
 again etc. If more than one rewrite typechecks, that's an 
 ambiguity error.
Ok. I've removed pseudocode. Is it better now?
 * IMPORTANT: The DIP must discuss rvalue vs. lvalue cases. The 
 rewrite approach simplifies that discussion because it's clear 
 what happens by simply reasoning about the rewritten 
 expression. Lvalue vs. rvalue matters a lot practically. 
 Consider:

 struct A
 {
     private int x;
     alias x this;
 }

 struct B
 {
     private int _x;
     int x() { return x; }
     alias x this;
 }

 Then x can be passed by reference, modified directly etc. for A 
 but not for B.
Done. I've added corresponding chapter to the DIP and commit to the PR.
Nov 02 2014
next sibling parent reply "IgorStepanov" <wazar mail.ru> writes:
And there is dispute about is expression: see 
http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ubafmwvxwtolhmnxbrsf forum.dlang.org?page=5
Nov 02 2014
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 11/2/14 6:57 AM, IgorStepanov wrote:
 And there is dispute about is expression: see
 http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ubafmwvxwtolhmnxbrsf forum.dlang.org?page=5
OK, time to get this approved. First, the current DIP doesn't seem to address this:
 Walter and I would agree to making the presence of BOTH alias this
 and opDispatch a compile-time error. That would break existing code
 but not change semantics silently.
Any thoughts on this? Currently opDispatch gets priority over alias this, see lookup step 3 in section "Semantics" of http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP66. That's problematic because it puts opDispatch in _between_ "normal" subtyping via inheritance and alias this, which is supposed to be just as solid as inheritance. I think the principled solution is to combine steps 2 and 4 into step 2, i.e. alias this is as strong as inheritance. Any ambiguous symbols would be rejected. The second possibility, less principled but probably practical, would be to swap steps 3 and 4. That way alias this has juuust a teensy bit a lower status than regular inheritance. The simplest thing (which Walter favors) is to make the presence of both opDispatch and alias this a compile-time error. That would break only a teensy amount of code if any, and would give us time to investigate the best approach when compelling use cases come about. So I suggest we move forward with that for this DIP. Regarding the is-expression controversy in http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ubafmwvxwtolhmnxbrsf forum.dlang.org?page=5: First off, is(S : T) is a subtyping test - is S a non-proper subtype of T, or not? (Non-proper or improper subtyping: S is allowed to be identical to T). "alias this" is a mechanism that introduces subtyping. It follows that subtyping introduced via "alias this" must be detected with is-expressions. Now, you give an example of subtyping where one or more two objects of the same supertype may be reached through two or more different paths. This is a well-known problem in subtyping (known as diamond hierarchy or repeated inheritance). In the case of "alias this", different objects of the same type may be reachable (or at least the compiler is unable to tell statically whether the objects are distinct or not). A correct but hamfisted solution would be to sever the subtyping relationship whenever the same type is reachable through multiple paths. The versatility of "alias this", however, suggests a better solution: if T is indirectly reachable as a supertype of S through more than one path and the subtyping is either tested (by means of an is-expression) or effected (by means of an implicit conversion), the compiler should issue a compile-time error asking the user to define an "alias this" DIRECTLY inside S, which takes precedence over indirect reachability and informs the type system which T of the several reachable ones is needed. Please let me know of any thoughts. Thanks! Andrei
Dec 20 2014
parent reply "IgorStepanov" <wazar mail.ru> writes:
On Saturday, 20 December 2014 at 21:25:28 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 11/2/14 6:57 AM, IgorStepanov wrote:
 And there is dispute about is expression: see
 http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ubafmwvxwtolhmnxbrsf forum.dlang.org?page=5
OK, time to get this approved. First, the current DIP doesn't seem to address this:
 Walter and I would agree to making the presence of BOTH alias 
 this
 and opDispatch a compile-time error. That would break existing 
 code
 but not change semantics silently.
Far as I remember it was left to the discussion. Nobody objected to this issue, thus we may accept it. I think.
 Any thoughts on this? Currently opDispatch gets priority over 
 alias this, see lookup step 3 in section "Semantics" of 
 http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP66. That's problematic because it puts 
 opDispatch in _between_ "normal" subtyping via inheritance and 
 alias this, which is supposed to be just as solid as 
 inheritance.

 I think the principled solution is to combine steps 2 and 4 
 into step 2, i.e. alias this is as strong as inheritance. Any 
 ambiguous symbols would be rejected.

 The second possibility, less principled but probably practical, 
 would be to swap steps 3 and 4. That way alias this has juuust 
 a teensy bit a lower status than regular inheritance.
It looks nice, but it can greatly break the existing code. I suggest a postpone this issue and discuss the semantic order in a separate discusson/
 The simplest thing (which Walter favors) is to make the 
 presence of both opDispatch and alias this a compile-time 
 error. That would break only a teensy amount of code if any, 
 and would give us time to investigate the best approach when 
 compelling use cases come about. So I suggest we move forward 
 with that for this DIP.

 Regarding the is-expression controversy in 
 http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ubafmwvxwtolhmnxbrsf forum.dlang.org?page=5:

 First off, is(S : T) is a subtyping test - is S a non-proper 
 subtype of T, or not? (Non-proper or improper subtyping: S is 
 allowed to be identical to T). "alias this" is a mechanism that 
 introduces subtyping. It follows that subtyping introduced via 
 "alias this" must be detected with is-expressions.

 Now, you give an example of subtyping where one or more two 
 objects of the same supertype may be reached through two or 
 more different paths. This is a well-known problem in subtyping 
 (known as diamond hierarchy or repeated inheritance).

 In the case of "alias this", different objects of the same type 
 may be reachable (or at least the compiler is unable to tell 
 statically whether the objects are distinct or not). A correct 
 but hamfisted solution would be to sever the subtyping 
 relationship whenever the same type is reachable through 
 multiple paths.

 The versatility of "alias this", however, suggests a better 
 solution: if T is indirectly reachable as a supertype of S 
 through more than one path and the subtyping is either tested 
 (by means of an is-expression) or effected (by means of an 
 implicit conversion), the compiler should issue a compile-time 
 error asking the user to define an "alias this" DIRECTLY inside 
 S, which takes precedence over indirect reachability and 
 informs the type system which T of the several reachable ones 
 is needed.

 Please let me know of any thoughts. Thanks!
Summing up. There are three way to process is(D: B) where D may be converted to B in several ways. 1. is(D: B) should return false: D is not subtype of B now. 2. is(D: B) should return true: D is subtype of B anyway. 3. is(D: B) should raise an error: let the user decide what he wants. I strongly aganist the first way. It means that is(D: B) may absorb the real error, if it happens. Now only two construction in D may absorb errors: is(typeof(something)) and __traits(compiles, anything)). I say "absorb" when compiler see the error, ignores it and changes way of compilation: static if (<noErrors>) <correct branch> else <error branch> This situation may cause strage errors, code hijacking and other bad things, thus user should has a possibility to keep track of such cases. is(typeof(something)) and __traits(compiles, anything)) is a special constructions to error handling and user and everyone understands what is expected. is(D: B) is trusted construction and it can't create problems now. Let's leave it so. The second way is better, I think. It doesn't absorb the error, it skip error but doesn't change the compilation way. Error will be raised anyway when compiler will process code which use this casting. void foo(D)(D obj) if (is(D: Base)) // compiler will skip the error here... { Base b = obj; //... but it will raise the error here. } The third way is correct too, I think. It raises error earlier, but I changes current `is` semantic. AFAIK, `is` doesn't raise errors now.
the compiler should issue
a compile-time error asking the user to define an "alias this" 
DIRECTLY
inside S, which takes precedence over indirect reachability and 
informs
the type system which T of the several reachable ones is needed.
That means that user should may override inherited alias this declarations: struct A { alias i this; int i; } struct B { alias i this; int i; } struct C { alias a this; alias b this; alias b.i this; //override inherited alias int this. A a; B b; } It was implemented in my first implementation, but AFAIR you suggested delay it for postpone this feature and introduce it later. Thus now I remove this option from PR and DIP, but I may revert it back. P.S. sorry for big latency, it will take place within a couple of months, but I will do this work anyway.
Dec 23 2014
parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/23/2014 10:42 AM, IgorStepanov wrote:
 On Saturday, 20 December 2014 at 21:25:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 11/2/14 6:57 AM, IgorStepanov wrote:
 And there is dispute about is expression: see
 http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ubafmwvxwtolhmnxbrsf forum.dlang.org?page=5
OK, time to get this approved. First, the current DIP doesn't seem to address this:
 Walter and I would agree to making the presence of BOTH alias this
 and opDispatch a compile-time error. That would break existing code
 but not change semantics silently.
Far as I remember it was left to the discussion. Nobody objected to this issue, thus we may accept it. I think.
Ok, let's make it an error.
 Any thoughts on this? Currently opDispatch gets priority over alias this, see
 lookup step 3 in section "Semantics" of http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP66. That's
 problematic because it puts opDispatch in _between_ "normal" subtyping via
 inheritance and alias this, which is supposed to be just as solid as
inheritance.

 I think the principled solution is to combine steps 2 and 4 into step 2, i.e.
 alias this is as strong as inheritance. Any ambiguous symbols would be
rejected.

 The second possibility, less principled but probably practical, would be to
 swap steps 3 and 4. That way alias this has juuust a teensy bit a lower status
 than regular inheritance.
It looks nice, but it can greatly break the existing code. I suggest a postpone this issue and discuss the semantic order in a separate discusson/
 The simplest thing (which Walter favors) is to make the presence of both
 opDispatch and alias this a compile-time error. That would break only a teensy
 amount of code if any, and would give us time to investigate the best approach
 when compelling use cases come about. So I suggest we move forward with that
 for this DIP.

 Regarding the is-expression controversy in
 http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ubafmwvxwtolhmnxbrsf forum.dlang.org?page=5:

 First off, is(S : T) is a subtyping test - is S a non-proper subtype of T, or
 not? (Non-proper or improper subtyping: S is allowed to be identical to T).
 "alias this" is a mechanism that introduces subtyping. It follows that
 subtyping introduced via "alias this" must be detected with is-expressions.

 Now, you give an example of subtyping where one or more two objects of the
 same supertype may be reached through two or more different paths. This is a
 well-known problem in subtyping (known as diamond hierarchy or repeated
 inheritance).

 In the case of "alias this", different objects of the same type may be
 reachable (or at least the compiler is unable to tell statically whether the
 objects are distinct or not). A correct but hamfisted solution would be to
 sever the subtyping relationship whenever the same type is reachable through
 multiple paths.

 The versatility of "alias this", however, suggests a better solution: if T is
 indirectly reachable as a supertype of S through more than one path and the
 subtyping is either tested (by means of an is-expression) or effected (by
 means of an implicit conversion), the compiler should issue a compile-time
 error asking the user to define an "alias this" DIRECTLY inside S, which takes
 precedence over indirect reachability and informs the type system which T of
 the several reachable ones is needed.

 Please let me know of any thoughts. Thanks!
Summing up. There are three way to process is(D: B) where D may be converted to B in several ways. 1. is(D: B) should return false: D is not subtype of B now. 2. is(D: B) should return true: D is subtype of B anyway. 3. is(D: B) should raise an error: let the user decide what he wants. I strongly aganist the first way. It means that is(D: B) may absorb the real error, if it happens. Now only two construction in D may absorb errors: is(typeof(something)) and __traits(compiles, anything)). I say "absorb" when compiler see the error, ignores it and changes way of compilation: static if (<noErrors>) <correct branch> else <error branch> This situation may cause strage errors, code hijacking and other bad things, thus user should has a possibility to keep track of such cases. is(typeof(something)) and __traits(compiles, anything)) is a special constructions to error handling and user and everyone understands what is expected. is(D: B) is trusted construction and it can't create problems now. Let's leave it so. The second way is better, I think. It doesn't absorb the error, it skip error but doesn't change the compilation way. Error will be raised anyway when compiler will process code which use this casting. void foo(D)(D obj) if (is(D: Base)) // compiler will skip the error here... { Base b = obj; //... but it will raise the error here. } The third way is correct too, I think. It raises error earlier, but I changes current `is` semantic. AFAIK, `is` doesn't raise errors now.
The current behavior of: is (D : B) is the expression will evaluate to false if D does not compile. However, a compile time error will be issued if B does not compile. If D and B compile, then it will evaluate to false if B is not implicitly convertible to D. This suggests to me Option 1, i.e. if the implicit conversion fails due to ambiguity errors, then it should return false (not issue a compile time error). I'm not sure what you mean by "absorb the real error".
 the compiler should issue
 a compile-time error asking the user to define an "alias this" DIRECTLY
 inside S, which takes precedence over indirect reachability and informs
 the type system which T of the several reachable ones is needed.
That means that user should may override inherited alias this declarations: struct A { alias i this; int i; } struct B { alias i this; int i; } struct C { alias a this; alias b this; alias b.i this; //override inherited alias int this. A a; B b; } It was implemented in my first implementation, but AFAIR you suggested delay it for postpone this feature and introduce it later. Thus now I remove this option from PR and DIP, but I may revert it back. P.S. sorry for big latency, it will take place within a couple of months, but I will do this work anyway.
Dec 23 2014
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/23/14 8:54 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 The current behavior of:

      is (D : B)

 is the expression will evaluate to false if D does not compile. However,
 a compile time error will be issued if B does not compile.

 If D and B compile, then it will evaluate to false if B is not
 implicitly convertible to D. This suggests to me Option 1, i.e. if the
 implicit conversion fails due to ambiguity errors, then it should return
 false (not issue a compile time error).
Though I agree it makes sense to just return false, I think it would be more sensible and useful to issue an error. If B is reachable from B through multiple paths, that's a new situation distinct from yes/no. In fact a better thought: as soon as D is defined, repeated subtyping should be detected as an error. Then there's no question about "is" in the first place :o). Andrei
Dec 23 2014
next sibling parent reply "Daniel Nielsen" <ufo orbiting.us> writes:
On Wednesday, 24 December 2014 at 06:17:28 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
 In fact a better thought: as soon as D is defined, repeated 
 subtyping should be detected as an error. Then there's no 
 question about "is" in the first place :o).


 Andrei
Agreed. How about using "override alias this" when disambiguating, in order to make it more explicit? struct C { alias a this; alias b this; override alias b.i this; // override inherited alias int this. A a; B b; }
Dec 24 2014
parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/24/14 12:58 AM, Daniel Nielsen wrote:
 On Wednesday, 24 December 2014 at 06:17:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 In fact a better thought: as soon as D is defined, repeated subtyping
 should be detected as an error. Then there's no question about "is" in
 the first place :o).


 Andrei
Agreed. How about using "override alias this" when disambiguating, in order to make it more explicit? struct C { alias a this; alias b this; override alias b.i this; // override inherited alias int this. A a; B b; }
Is there a need for explicit overriding, i.e. any inadvertent error people may make without it? -- Andrei
Dec 24 2014
parent reply "Daniel N" <ufo orbiting.us> writes:
On Wednesday, 24 December 2014 at 22:09:49 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:
 Is there a need for explicit overriding, i.e. any inadvertent 
 error people may make without it? -- Andrei
I failed to find any dangerous refactoring sequences, so it might be superfluous, however I found another minor issue, see below. Anyway considering the new ways of working, when using the -dip switch for the initial few releases, there is ample time to perfect all details. // Example 1 struct A {int i;alias i this;} struct Z { A a; alias a this; } // A is preferred since it requires only one implicit conversion. void process(A) {} void process(int) {} // Example 2 struct A {int i;alias i this;} struct B {int i;alias i this;} struct Z { A a; B b; alias a this; alias b this; alias a.i this; } // The below is now ambiguous because Z is directly convertible to 'int' although we only intended to disambiguate between Z->A->int and Z->B->int void process(A) {} void process(int) {}
Dec 26 2014
parent reply Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On 26/12/14 19:53, Daniel N via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 Anyway considering the new ways of working, when using the -dip switch for the
 initial few releases, there is ample time to perfect all details.
Potentially related issue, regarding implicit conversion. Given a struct as follows: struct Integer { int i_; alias i_ this; } Can anyone explain to me why this works: Integer i = Integer(3); i = 5; ... but this doesn't: Integer i = 5; It seems unintuitive, in the circumstances.
Dec 27 2014
parent "Andrea Fontana" <nospam example.com> writes:
On Saturday, 27 December 2014 at 12:28:34 UTC, Joseph Rushton 
Wakeling wrote:
 On 26/12/14 19:53, Daniel N via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 Anyway considering the new ways of working, when using the 
 -dip switch for the
 initial few releases, there is ample time to perfect all 
 details.
Potentially related issue, regarding implicit conversion. Given a struct as follows: struct Integer { int i_; alias i_ this; } Can anyone explain to me why this works: Integer i = Integer(3); i = 5; ... but this doesn't: Integer i = 5; It seems unintuitive, in the circumstances.
Is "multiple alias this" implementation planned in near future? It could be useful for a project of mine :)
May 08 2015
prev sibling parent reply Walter Bright <newshound2 digitalmars.com> writes:
On 12/23/2014 10:17 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 On 12/23/14 8:54 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 The current behavior of:

      is (D : B)

 is the expression will evaluate to false if D does not compile. However,
 a compile time error will be issued if B does not compile.

 If D and B compile, then it will evaluate to false if B is not
 implicitly convertible to D. This suggests to me Option 1, i.e. if the
 implicit conversion fails due to ambiguity errors, then it should return
 false (not issue a compile time error).
Though I agree it makes sense to just return false, I think it would be more sensible and useful to issue an error. If B is reachable from B through multiple paths, that's a new situation distinct from yes/no.
That would be inconsistent with how 'is' works for other types.
 In fact a better thought: as soon as D is defined, repeated subtyping should be
 detected as an error. Then there's no question about "is" in the first place
:o).
That's a good idea, but I think it is unworkable. What is the set of types that B is implicitly convertible too? It's unbounded.
Dec 26 2014
parent Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 12/26/14 12:37 PM, Walter Bright wrote:
 On 12/23/2014 10:17 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
 In fact a better thought: as soon as D is defined, repeated subtyping
 should be
 detected as an error. Then there's no question about "is" in the first
 place :o).
That's a good idea, but I think it is unworkable. What is the set of types that B is implicitly convertible too? It's unbounded.
I think it's bounded. Example to the contrary? -- Andrei
Dec 26 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent "Sativa" <Sativa Indica.org> writes:
 class A : B
 {
    B b;
    alias b this; //Error: super type (B) always hides 
 "aliasthised" type B because base classes should be processed 
 before alias this types.
 }
This isn't an error? Just because A inherits B doesn't mean that the alias is wrong? e.g., If you have class A1 { B b; alias b this; } and class A2 : B { B b; alias b this; } A2 is just A1 in all forms. Whats great about it is that it allows easy composition patterns. (that is, A1 has essentially implemented B through the alias) e.g., we can reassign b to a different behavior without having to write any boil code. It allows one to decompose classes and their implementations in a natural way. Of course, it would require the alias this to be processed before the base class. I think that it would be worth the alias to override the inheritance because it makes things easier: class A : BBB { BB b; alias b this; } If BBB and BB are related in some complex way the compiler has to deduce this. e.g., class BBB : Q!B { } where Q!B is some template that is a superclass of B. But if the alias is processed first, it won't matter.
 * Regarding the lookup, opDispatch shouldn't come before alias 
 this, or should come before base class lookup. Essentially 
 alias this is subtyping so it should enjoy similar privileges 
 to base classes. A different way to look at it is opDispatch 
 is a "last resort" lookup mechanism, just one step above the 
 UFCS lowering.
I agree with this suggestion, however it breaks an existing code. opDispatch shouldn't come before base type lookup, because it will hide basic methods like toString. opDispatch may come after alias this lookup, however it will fundamentally change program behaviour.
Why can't you simply have opDispatch call the base class lookup if all others fail? It seems to me that one should have alias this > opDispatch > class > base class(es) But each one has a fall through mechanism. e.g., if someone overrides toString in opDispatch it will call their function, if not, it gets passed to the bass class tostring. Why should it work this way? Because alias this and opDispatch are user defined. The user "knows" why they are doing and the compiler doesn't get in the way by preventing them from doing things they want to do. The compiler essentially fixes up all the missing connections that it can but never forcing connections the user may not want. Basically all one needs is something like bool opAliasDispatch(...) { if (...) { ... return true; } // tries to dispatch return false; } bool opDispatch(...) { if (...) { ... return true; } // tries to dispatch return false; } bool opClassDispatch(...) { if (...) { ... return true; } // tries to dispatch return false; } bool opBaseDispatch(...) { if (...) { ... return true; } // tries to dispatch return false; } Then a master dispatcher is bool opMasterDispatch(...) { return opAliasDispatch(...) || opDispatch(...) || opClassDispatch(...) || opBaseDispatch(...); } This makes it easier to add new dispatchers in the future, etc. Also, if you are worried about backwards compatibility, just create a command line switch to select one method over another. Easy and it doesn't force everyone to be stuck with a suboptimal solution just for "backwards compatibility"(which is the scourge of humanity... We have to move forward, not be stuck in the past!!!).
Nov 02 2014
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Andrei Alexandrescu <SeeWebsiteForEmail erdani.org> writes:
On 11/2/14 6:55 AM, IgorStepanov wrote:
 http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP66

 * "At the AliasThis declaration semantic stage, the compiler can
 perform the initial checks and reject the obviously incorrect
 AliasThis declarations." -> it might be simpler (for the sake of
 simplifying generic code) to just delay all error checking to the
 first use.
I disagree with that. Current check is not recursive and prevent you code from a silly errors: struct X(T, V) { T t; V v; alias t this; alias v this; //Error if is(T == V). However this code is fundamentally broken, and this error should be raised as soon as possible. }
The code is not fundamentally broken if alias this is never used. I agree rejecting the code compulsively is also sensible, ONLY if there is a simple way to write a static if condition to make the code work. Meaning: struct X(T, V) { T t; V v; static if (please_fill_this) alias t this; static if (please_fill_this_too) alias v this; } If the two conditions are too hard to write then it would be difficult to argue this point successfully.
 class A : B
 {
     B b;
     alias b this; //Error: super type (B) always hides "aliasthised"
 type B because base classes should be processed before alias this types.
 }
That's fine to reject in all cases.
 * Regarding the lookup, opDispatch shouldn't come before alias this,
 or should come before base class lookup. Essentially alias this is
 subtyping so it should enjoy similar privileges to base classes. A
 different way to look at it is opDispatch is a "last resort" lookup
 mechanism, just one step above the UFCS lowering.
I agree with this suggestion, however it breaks an existing code.
Walter and I would agree to making the presence of BOTH alias this and opDispatch a compile-time error. That would break existing code but not change semantics silently. When alias this was introduced the decision of opDispatch vs. alias this was not deeply elaborated. In hindsight opDispatch should probably have come after because it's really a "method not found" catch-all whereas alias this is subtyping. That said, compelling arguments might come later the other direction. So making it an error for now would be sensible. It should only affect rather obscure code.
 opDispatch shouldn't come before base type lookup, because it will hide
 basic methods like toString.
Agreed.
 opDispatch may come after alias this lookup, however it will
 fundamentally change program behaviour.
Understood.
 Current (implemented is released compiler) behaviour:
[snip] Understood. All: okay to make alias this + opDispach applicable to the same expression an error?
 And, TBH, this issue not relevant with multiple alias this :-)
Agreed. It is, however, good to revisit the decision and tighten that screw properly now that we have the opportunity.
 * The DIP should specify the working of alias this as
 rewrites/lowerings, not pseudocode. Basically for each kth declaration
 "alias symbolk this;" the compiler rewrites "obj.xyz" as
 "obj.symbolk.xyz" and then does the usual lookup on that expression.
 That means the whole algorithms is applied again etc. If more than one
 rewrite typechecks, that's an ambiguity error.
Ok. I've removed pseudocode. Is it better now?
I'm flying now :o)... will take a look.
 * IMPORTANT: The DIP must discuss rvalue vs. lvalue cases.
Done. I've added corresponding chapter to the DIP and commit to the PR.
I'm sending this now with these points, will make one more pass through the DIP when I'm online again. Andrei
Nov 02 2014
parent reply "IgorStepanov" <wazar mail.ru> writes:
 * "At the AliasThis declaration semantic stage, the compiler 
 can
 perform the initial checks and reject the obviously incorrect
 AliasThis declarations." -> it might be simpler (for the sake 
 of
 simplifying generic code) to just delay all error checking to 
 the
 first use.
I disagree with that. Current check is not recursive and prevent you code from a silly errors: struct X(T, V) { T t; V v; alias t this; alias v this; //Error if is(T == V). However this code is fundamentally broken, and this error should be raised as soon as possible. }
The code is not fundamentally broken if alias this is never used. I agree rejecting the code compulsively is also sensible, ONLY if there is a simple way to write a static if condition to make the code work. Meaning: struct X(T, V) { T t; V v; static if (please_fill_this) alias t this; static if (please_fill_this_too) alias v this; } If the two conditions are too hard to write then it would be difficult to argue this point successfully.
This code can be rewritten as: struct X(T, V) { T t; V v; alias t this; static if (!is(V == T)) alias v this; }
The code is not fundamentally broken if alias this is never
 used.
I meant that when you say that X is a subtype of T and X is a subtype of V where you don't know what T and V are, it means you don't really know what you're doing. And that is an error and the compiler should inform you about it as soon as possible. However I may be mistaken.
Understood. All: okay to make alias this + opDispach applicable 
to the
same expression an error? I think it will be nice.
I'm sending this now with these points, will make one more pass 
through
the DIP when I'm online again. Ok, I'll wait. And please, answer the question about the is-expression.
Nov 03 2014
parent reply "Marc =?UTF-8?B?U2Now7x0eiI=?= <schuetzm gmx.net> writes:
On Monday, 3 November 2014 at 15:39:42 UTC, IgorStepanov wrote:
 I meant that when you say that X is a subtype of T and X is a 
 subtype of V where you don't know what T and V are, it means 
 you don't really know what you're doing. And that is an error 
 and the compiler should inform you about it as soon as 
 possible. However I may be mistaken.
IMO the behaviour should be analogous to name lookup for modules: there should be an error only on use. It's hard to come up with a non-artificial example, but I can imagine there are some valid use cases in generic code. It won't hurt to report the ambiguity error on use, while it could theoretically hurt to report it early, so I'd suggest to go with the former.
Nov 03 2014
parent reply "IgorStepanov" <wazar mail.ru> writes:
On Monday, 3 November 2014 at 20:06:27 UTC, Marc Sch├╝tz wrote:
 On Monday, 3 November 2014 at 15:39:42 UTC, IgorStepanov wrote:
 I meant that when you say that X is a subtype of T and X is a 
 subtype of V where you don't know what T and V are, it means 
 you don't really know what you're doing. And that is an error 
 and the compiler should inform you about it as soon as 
 possible. However I may be mistaken.
IMO the behaviour should be analogous to name lookup for modules: there should be an error only on use. It's hard to come up with a non-artificial example, but I can imagine there are some valid use cases in generic code. It won't hurt to report the ambiguity error on use, while it could theoretically hurt to report it early, so I'd suggest to go with the former.
There are two cases: 1: when "alias a this" tries to override base class typeof(a) 2: when "alias a this" tries to override "alias b this" where "is(typeof(a) == typeof(b))" The first check is hard to implement at lookup-time, because base classes are resolved before alias this. The second check may be easely dropped (anyway alias this conflicts are resolved properly at lookup time). Do you accept this scheme (remove the second check but still alive the first check)?
Nov 03 2014
parent "IgorStepanov" <wazar mail.ru> writes:
Bump
Dec 05 2014
prev sibling parent reply Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On 02/11/14 15:55, IgorStepanov via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP66

 I've applied some changes to it, however there are still some unresolved
questions.
The current DIP doesn't address protection attributes. I recognize this might be somewhat orthogonal, but it'd be nice to build it into the DIP if possible, just to be explicit about what is expected for how alias this should work. According to TDPL the following should work: struct Foo { private T internal_; // member variable is private public alias internal_ this; // .. but can be interacted with // via the public alias } It seems to me an important factor, because it means that classes and structs can use subtyping without revealing the implementation details. As things are, you wind up having to do something like, struct Integer { private int i_; public ref int getInteger() property { return i_; } alias getInteger this; } ... which personally I find a bit of an unpleasant violation of the idea of a private implementation. See also: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10996
Dec 20 2014
parent reply "deadalnix" <deadalnix gmail.com> writes:
On Saturday, 20 December 2014 at 23:22:40 UTC, Joseph Rushton 
Wakeling via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On 02/11/14 15:55, IgorStepanov via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 http://wiki.dlang.org/DIP66

 I've applied some changes to it, however there are still some 
 unresolved questions.
The current DIP doesn't address protection attributes. I recognize this might be somewhat orthogonal, but it'd be nice to build it into the DIP if possible, just to be explicit about what is expected for how alias this should work. According to TDPL the following should work: struct Foo { private T internal_; // member variable is private public alias internal_ this; // .. but can be interacted with // via the public alias } It seems to me an important factor, because it means that classes and structs can use subtyping without revealing the implementation details. As things are, you wind up having to do something like, struct Integer { private int i_; public ref int getInteger() property { return i_; } alias getInteger this; } ... which personally I find a bit of an unpleasant violation of the idea of a private implementation. See also: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10996
I have nothing against this, but this is, indeed, completely out of the scope (!) of the DIP.
Dec 21 2014
next sibling parent reply "Dicebot" <public dicebot.lv> writes:
On Sunday, 21 December 2014 at 08:23:34 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 See also: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10996
I have nothing against this, but this is, indeed, completely out of the scope (!) of the DIP.
I think it belongs to DIP22
Dec 21 2014
parent Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On 21/12/14 11:11, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 On Sunday, 21 December 2014 at 08:23:34 UTC, deadalnix wrote:
 See also: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10996
I have nothing against this, but this is, indeed, completely out of the scope (!) of the DIP.
I think it belongs to DIP22
In fact it's already in there: A public alias to a private symbol makes the symbol accessibly through the alias. The alias itself needs to be in the same module, so this doesn't impair protection control. It's just not implemented for alias this.
Dec 22 2014
prev sibling parent Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d puremagic.com> writes:
On 21/12/14 09:23, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d wrote:
 I have nothing against this, but this is, indeed, completely out of the scope
 (!) of the DIP.
Fair enough. I wanted to make sure there was nothing here that could interact nastily with protection attributes.
Dec 22 2014