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digitalmars.D - Anybody still using the chm docs

reply Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:
It's a huge maintenance effort for us to produce the chm files.
We no longer generate documentation on Windows, but just for the 
chm generation we have dedicated tools [¹] to create an index 
(from a json generated via ddoc) and copy the html files.
So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline copy 
of a website shipped with a binary release?

https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/pull/1374

[¹]:
https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/blob/7cc6e938154f90aa49fa6451a85b13e35ab2de99/chmgen.d
Jun 15 2016
next sibling parent reply rikki cattermole <rikki cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 15/06/2016 10:58 PM, Martin Nowak wrote:
 It's a huge maintenance effort for us to produce the chm files.
 We no longer generate documentation on Windows, but just for the chm
 generation we have dedicated tools [¹] to create an index (from a json
 generated via ddoc) and copy the html files.
 So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline copy of a
 website shipped with a binary release?

 https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/pull/1374

 [¹]:
 https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/blob/7cc6e938154f90aa49fa6451a85b13e35ab2de99/chmgen.d
As long as pdf is still being generated I see no reason to not drop it. Cost vs benefit.
Jun 15 2016
parent reply captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
 As long as pdf is still being generated I see no reason to not drop it.
 Cost vs benefit.
not sure what pdf you are referring to. https://dlang.org/dlangspec.pdf ? - this is only the language spec. the chm contains the whole website incl phobos documentation, compiler options, articles and style guide. or is there another pdf hiding somewhere? /det
Jun 15 2016
parent reply rikki cattermole <rikki cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 16/06/2016 12:04 AM, captaindet wrote:
 As long as pdf is still being generated I see no reason to not drop it.
 Cost vs benefit.
not sure what pdf you are referring to. https://dlang.org/dlangspec.pdf ? - this is only the language spec. the chm contains the whole website incl phobos documentation, compiler options, articles and style guide. or is there another pdf hiding somewhere? /det
No no, spec only. Honestly? I read the source for Phobos even with a internet connection quite often. So having it not included isn't an issue there, but spec is.
Jun 15 2016
parent reply captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
On 2016-06-16 00:29, rikki cattermole wrote:
 Honestly? I read the source for Phobos even with a internet connection
 quite often. So having it not included isn't an issue there, but spec is.
real programmers do ... well, i do sometimes too. but i rather regard myself as an average user, while i see you as an advanced developer. ppl like me like easy digestible documentation. i don't want to start a fight here. if it has to go it has to go. just making a point that it is useful for some. maybe a 2nd pdf could be made instead containing the phobos docs?
Jun 15 2016
parent rikki cattermole <rikki cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 16/06/2016 12:57 AM, captaindet wrote:
 On 2016-06-16 00:29, rikki cattermole wrote:
 Honestly? I read the source for Phobos even with a internet connection
 quite often. So having it not included isn't an issue there, but spec is.
real programmers do ... well, i do sometimes too. but i rather regard myself as an average user, while i see you as an advanced developer. ppl like me like easy digestible documentation.
I like my information easily digestible too.
 i don't want to start a fight here. if it has to go it has to go. just
 making a point that it is useful for some.

 maybe a 2nd pdf could be made instead containing the phobos docs?
The spec is quite a problem in reading it isn't as enjoyable as say Phobos sources. That is why I mention it explicitly. But I have nothing against pdf form of Phobos docs.
Jun 15 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent reply captaindet <2krnk gmx.net> writes:
 It's a huge maintenance effort for us to produce the chm files.
...
 So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline copy of a
 website shipped with a binary release?
i am very glad the chm file exists whenever i am not online, e.g. on a plane or train (free wifi is not a given everywhere). finding something in the local html is quite awkward w/o google... if it really takes up too much time i will understand if it has to go too, especially if i a am the minority. just saying: i do use it occasionally, and whenever i do it is a big help. /det
Jun 15 2016
parent FrankLike <1150015857 qq.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 11:54:31 UTC, captaindet wrote:
 It's a huge maintenance effort for us to produce the chm files.
...
 So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline 
 copy of a
 website shipped with a binary release?
i am very glad the chm file exists whenever i am not online, e.g. on a plane or train (free wifi is not a given everywhere). finding something in the local html is quite awkward w/o google... if it really takes up too much time i will understand if it has to go too, especially if i a am the minority. just saying: i do use it occasionally, and whenever i do it is a big help. /det
+1
Jun 16 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent jmh530 <john.michael.hall gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 10:58:04 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 It's a huge maintenance effort for us to produce the chm files.
I didn't know this was a thing. It's cool, but if it is a big inconvenience, then I don't think it needs to be included. I suggest just providing a way for people to make it themselves or download it (and clearly document how to do it).
Jun 15 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent finalpatch <fengli gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 10:58:04 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 It's a huge maintenance effort for us to produce the chm files.
 We no longer generate documentation on Windows, but just for 
 the chm generation we have dedicated tools [¹] to create an 
 index (from a json generated via ddoc) and copy the html files.
 So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline 
 copy of a website shipped with a binary release?

 https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/pull/1374

 [¹]:
 https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/blob/7cc6e938154f90aa49fa6451a85b13e35ab2de99/chmgen.d
Would be cool if you guys take over this and produce an official version: https://github.com/Kapeli/Dash-User-Contributions/tree/master/docsets/D Dash (and its free clone Zeal) is massively better than CHM for offline use.
Jun 15 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent zabruk70 <sorry noem.ail> writes:
On Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 10:58:04 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline 
 copy of a website shipped with a binary release?
i use chm doc - it easy integrates with ide
Jun 15 2016
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jack Stouffer <jack jackstouffer.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 10:58:04 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline 
 copy of a website shipped with a binary release?
For offline browsing, Windows and Linux users can use Zeal [1] which is FOSS, and macOS users can use Dash[2], which is free as in beer. Both of which can use this D docset [3]. So no, there's no reason to maintain the chm docs. [1] https://zealdocs.org/ [2] https://kapeli.com/dash [3] https://github.com/Kapeli/Dash-User-Contributions/tree/master/docsets/D#readme
Jun 15 2016
next sibling parent reply Martin Nowak <code dawg.eu> writes:
On Thursday, 16 June 2016 at 02:32:05 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
 On Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 10:58:04 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline 
 copy of a website shipped with a binary release?
For offline browsing, Windows and Linux users can use Zeal [1] which is FOSS, and macOS users can use Dash[2], which is free as in beer. Both of which can use this D docset [3]. So no, there's no reason to maintain the chm docs. [1] https://zealdocs.org/ [2] https://kapeli.com/dash [3] https://github.com/Kapeli/Dash-User-Contributions/tree/master/docsets/D#readme
Interesting, is this generated from the html pages?
Jun 16 2016
parent Jack Stouffer <jack jackstouffer.com> writes:
On Thursday, 16 June 2016 at 11:04:48 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 On Thursday, 16 June 2016 at 02:32:05 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
 For offline browsing, Windows and Linux users can use Zeal [1] 
 which is FOSS, and macOS users can use Dash[2], which is free 
 as in beer. Both of which can use this D docset [3].

 So no, there's no reason to maintain the chm docs.

 [1] https://zealdocs.org/
 [2] https://kapeli.com/dash
 [3] 
 https://github.com/Kapeli/Dash-User-Contributions/tree/master/docsets/D#readme
Interesting, is this generated from the html pages?
Yeah
Jun 16 2016
prev sibling parent Dejan Lekic <dejan.lekic gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 16 June 2016 at 02:32:05 UTC, Jack Stouffer wrote:
 On Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 10:58:04 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline 
 copy of a website shipped with a binary release?
For offline browsing, Windows and Linux users can use Zeal [1] which is FOSS, and macOS users can use Dash[2], which is free as in beer. Both of which can use this D docset [3]. So no, there's no reason to maintain the chm docs. [1] https://zealdocs.org/ [2] https://kapeli.com/dash [3] https://github.com/Kapeli/Dash-User-Contributions/tree/master/docsets/D#readme
Thanks for the Zeal, I did not know about it. Both Gnome and KDE have their "help" tools that more/less do the same.
Jun 16 2016
prev sibling parent reply Dejan Lekic <dejan.lekic gmail.com> writes:
On Wednesday, 15 June 2016 at 10:58:04 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
 It's a huge maintenance effort for us to produce the chm files.
 We no longer generate documentation on Windows, but just for 
 the chm generation we have dedicated tools [¹] to create an 
 index (from a json generated via ddoc) and copy the html files.
 So I'm wondering if in 2016 someone really needs an offline 
 copy of a website shipped with a binary release?

 https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/pull/1374

 [¹]:
 https://github.com/dlang/dlang.org/blob/7cc6e938154f90aa49fa6451a85b13e35ab2de99/chmgen.d
I still use CHM document as it is absolutely the best solution compared to anything else. I think it is a mistake to compare CHM with PDF... They are made for different things... If people want to get rid of PDF, then I propose we start providing ePub instead of CHM. That could be the only sane alternative to the CHM we have.
Jun 16 2016
next sibling parent reply Dejan Lekic <dejan.lekic gmail.com> writes:
 I still use CHM document as it is absolutely the best solution 
 compared to anything else. I think it is a mistake to compare 
 CHM with PDF... They are made for different things...
I forgot to mention - I use CHM on Linux. It is not my fault that opensource community could not come up with a better or/and standardised solution... The only standard solution for this that Linux has are man pages - clearly not suitable this purpose! Other, better solutions are there, but are not adopted by all - Gnome has one format, KDE another, etc... CHAOS. Therefore, I decided to use CHM.
Jun 16 2016
parent rikki cattermole <rikki cattermole.co.nz> writes:
On 17/06/2016 1:22 AM, Dejan Lekic wrote:
 I still use CHM document as it is absolutely the best solution
 compared to anything else. I think it is a mistake to compare CHM with
 PDF... They are made for different things...
I forgot to mention - I use CHM on Linux. It is not my fault that opensource community could not come up with a better or/and standardised solution... The only standard solution for this that Linux has are man pages - clearly not suitable this purpose! Other, better solutions are there, but are not adopted by all - Gnome has one format, KDE another, etc... CHAOS. Therefore, I decided to use CHM.
It's doable to have epub generation[0]. PDF can do a heck a lot more then what most people even know[1]. [0] http://master.dl.sourceforge.net/project/d-apt/files/doc/2.071.0/dlangspec-2.071.0.epub [1] http://help.adobe.com/en_US/acrobat/acrobat_dc_sdk/2015/HTMLHelp/#t=Acro12_MasterBook%2FJS_API_AcroJSPreface%2FJS_API_AcroJSPreface.htm
Jun 16 2016
prev sibling parent reply Adam D. Ruppe <destructionator gmail.com> writes:
On Thursday, 16 June 2016 at 13:18:23 UTC, Dejan Lekic wrote:
 I still use CHM document as it is absolutely the best solution 
 compared to anything else.
What's the main difference between it and just pointing your browser at the downloaded html files? Search and index?
Jun 16 2016
parent Dejan Lekic <dejan.lekic gmail.com> writes:
 What's the main difference between it and just pointing your 
 browser at the downloaded html files? Search and index?
Well, seach and index are not the only operations you need. One of the common operation with every CHM viewer is to bookmark something for an example. I've just checked the Zeal application and realised it does not have this simple feature (or I could not find it). Also, I want it to open at the same place I was last time I used the viewer... Simply run KChmViewer and open the CHM document from DMD package with it, and compare it with any other similar solution...
Jun 16 2016