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digitalmars.D - Register article mentions D - maybe

reply Greg Vanore <Greg_member pathlink.com> writes:
A friend of mine sent this article:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/08/dtrace_user_take/

It's about a utility called DTrace, providing realtime kernel stats/monitoring
for Sun Solaris.

The interesting part of the article is that the author states that the DTrace
utility was written in D - and then also claims that the authors of DTrace take
credit for inventing it!

I wonder which is the fallacy: is this really written in D?  Did the creators
invent a different language and call it D?  Did the creators arrogantly and
falsely claim they created D?  Or did the author of the article make a mistake?

Interesting...
Jul 08 2004
next sibling parent reply Stephen Waits <steve waits.net> writes:
Greg Vanore wrote:
 A friend of mine sent this article:
 
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/08/dtrace_user_take/
 

DTrace author's blog: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/bmc (includes a link to his Usenix paper on DTrace) DTrace home page: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/dtrace --Steve
Jul 08 2004
parent reply Stephen Waits <steve waits.net> writes:
Stephen Waits wrote:
 DTrace author's blog: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/bmc (includes a 
 link to his Usenix paper on DTrace)

Further examination of the DTrace paper (http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/dtrace/dtrace_usenix.pdf) reveals that it is indeed another language named "D". Somebody want to mail them and let them know that the name "D" is taken? :) Along those same lines, has Walter done anything to legally reserve rights on that name??? From section 5 (of above linked paper): 5 D Language DTrace users can specify arbitrary predicates and actions using the high-level D programming language. D is a C-like language that supports all ANSI C operators and allows access to the kernel’s native types and global variables. D includes support for several kinds of user-defined variables, including global, clause-local, and thread-local variables and associative arrays. D programs are compiled into DIF by a compiler implemented in the DTrace library; the DIF is then bundled into an in-memory object file representation and sent to the inkernel DTrace framework for validation and probe enabling. The dtrace(1M) command provides a generic front-end to the D compiler and DTrace, but other layered tools can be built on top of the compiler library as well, such as the new implementation of lockstat(1M) described earlier. 5.1 Program Structure ... --Steve
Jul 08 2004
next sibling parent "Greg Vanore" <dazden at.dazden.dot.org> writes:
Disappointing.  It would have been neat if they had used the real D. ;)

I looked at the syntax, and it's certainly far from our D.  Although they
chose to keep printf as well.

"Stephen Waits" <steve waits.net> wrote in message
news:cckg4v$5h$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Stephen Waits wrote:
 DTrace author's blog: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/bmc (includes a
 link to his Usenix paper on DTrace)

Further examination of the DTrace paper (http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/dtrace/dtrace_usenix.pdf) reveals that it is indeed another language named "D". Somebody want to mail them and let them know that the name "D" is taken? :) Along those same lines, has Walter done anything to legally reserve rights on that name??? From section 5 (of above linked paper): 5 D Language DTrace users can specify arbitrary predicates and actions using the high-level D programming language. D is a C-like language that supports all ANSI C operators and allows access to the kernel’s native types and global variables. D includes support for several kinds of user-defined variables, including global, clause-local, and thread-local variables and associative arrays. D programs are compiled into DIF by a compiler implemented in the DTrace library; the DIF is then bundled into an in-memory object file representation and sent to the inkernel DTrace framework for validation and probe enabling. The dtrace(1M) command provides a generic front-end to the D compiler and DTrace, but other layered tools can be built on top of the compiler library as well, such as the new implementation of lockstat(1M) described earlier. 5.1 Program Structure ... --Steve

Jul 08 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Jonathan Leffler <jleffler earthlink.net> writes:
Stephen Waits wrote:

 Stephen Waits wrote:
 
 DTrace author's blog: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/bmc (includes a 
 link to his Usenix paper on DTrace)

Further examination of the DTrace paper (http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/content/dtrace/dtrace_usenix.pdf) reveals that it is indeed another language named "D". Somebody want to mail them and let them know that the name "D" is taken? :) Along those same lines, has Walter done anything to legally reserve rights on that name???

In the circles I more usually frequent, D is the language of True Relational Database Management Systems (TRDBMS), as espoused by C J Date and H Darwen since the mid-90's. So, that makes three languages known as 'D' -- I would not be surprised to find there are others too. -- Jonathan Leffler #include <disclaimer.h> Email: jleffler earthlink.net, jleffler us.ibm.com Guardian of DBD::Informix v2003.04 -- http://dbi.perl.org/
Jul 08 2004
parent reply Arcane Jill <Arcane_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <ccl77g$vua$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Jonathan Leffler says...
In the circles I more usually frequent, D is the language of True 
Relational Database Management Systems (TRDBMS), as espoused by C J 
Date and H Darwen since the mid-90's.  So, that makes three languages 
known as 'D' -- I would not be surprised to find there are others too.

And over at http://www.erights.org/, you'll learn all about the E programming language, the the "secure distributed pure-object platform and p2p scripting language for writing Capability-based Smart Contracts." Jill -- "Well, so much for Enterprise E." "We barely knew her. "Think they'll build another?" "There's plenty more letters in the alphabet." Beverly Crusher and Jean Luc Picard, Star Trek First Contact
Jul 09 2004
parent reply Stephen Waits <steve waits.net> writes:
Arcane Jill wrote:
 And over at http://www.erights.org/, you'll learn all about the E programming
 language, the the "secure distributed pure-object platform and p2p scripting
 language for writing Capability-based Smart Contracts."

Wow.. During the "dot.boom" there was a dot.com speak generator thing which would come up with random things about like this. --Steve
Jul 09 2004
parent reply pragma <EricAnderton at yahoo dot com> <pragma_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <ccmjq1$298$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Stephen Waits says...
Arcane Jill wrote:
 And over at http://www.erights.org/, you'll learn all about the E programming
 language, the the "secure distributed pure-object platform and p2p scripting
 language for writing Capability-based Smart Contracts."

Wow.. During the "dot.boom" there was a dot.com speak generator thing which would come up with random things about like this. --Steve

My first thought was: "someone coded such a thing? Sweet." So ask google, and ye shall receive: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html http://mba.vanderbilt.edu/mike.shor/Humor/MBAWriter/ (java servlet) Enjoy, - Pragma
Jul 09 2004
next sibling parent "Kris" <someidiot earthlink.dot.dot.dot.net> writes:
:-)

That MBA writer is great! Sounds rather like the "SpeakServer" I think Steve
was referring to. Shame it's not online anymore ...

"pragma" <EricAnderton at yahoo dot compragma_member pathlink.com> wrote in
message news:ccmlhb$5a4$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 In article <ccmjq1$298$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Stephen Waits says...
Arcane Jill wrote:
 And over at http://www.erights.org/, you'll learn all about the E



 language, the the "secure distributed pure-object platform and p2p



 language for writing Capability-based Smart Contracts."

Wow.. During the "dot.boom" there was a dot.com speak generator thing which would come up with random things about like this. --Steve

My first thought was: "someone coded such a thing? Sweet." So ask google, and ye shall receive: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html http://mba.vanderbilt.edu/mike.shor/Humor/MBAWriter/ (java servlet) Enjoy, - Pragma

Jul 09 2004
prev sibling parent "Bent Rasmussen" <exo bent-rasmussen.info> writes:
Here's what I got:

"e-enable viral technologies"

:-)
Jul 10 2004
prev sibling parent reply Arcane Jill <Arcane_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cckg4v$5h$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Stephen Waits says...

  :)  Along those same lines, has Walter done anything to legally 
reserve rights on that name???

You can't trademark a letter of the alphabet! If you could, Microsoft would have trademarked all twenty six letters decades ago, and would by now be charging everyone royalties for everything ever written in Latin script. A couple of years back, ISO tried to charge royalites on ISO language and country codes. Since these are part of the XML and HTML spec, this would have affected pretty much the entire internet. They backed down due worldwide outrage. Now, I have a patent somewhere for the wheel... <g> Jill
Jul 08 2004
parent Charlie <Charlie_member pathlink.com> writes:
In an old onion article :).

Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeroes  
REDMOND, WA—In what CEO Bill Gates called "an unfortunate but necessary step to
protect our intellectual property from theft and exploitation by competitors,"
the Microsoft Corporation patented... 
3311 | 25 March 1998 | News 

C

In article <cclfbs$1cjo$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Arcane Jill says...
In article <cckg4v$5h$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Stephen Waits says...

  :)  Along those same lines, has Walter done anything to legally 
reserve rights on that name???

You can't trademark a letter of the alphabet! If you could, Microsoft would have trademarked all twenty six letters decades ago, and would by now be charging everyone royalties for everything ever written in Latin script. A couple of years back, ISO tried to charge royalites on ISO language and country codes. Since these are part of the XML and HTML spec, this would have affected pretty much the entire internet. They backed down due worldwide outrage. Now, I have a patent somewhere for the wheel... <g> Jill

Jul 10 2004
prev sibling next sibling parent "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
D is the name of a Sun internal language. It was invented named after Walter's
D.

"Greg Vanore" <Greg_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:cckf6h$307j$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 A friend of mine sent this article:

 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/08/dtrace_user_take/

 It's about a utility called DTrace, providing realtime kernel stats/monitoring
 for Sun Solaris.

 The interesting part of the article is that the author states that the DTrace
 utility was written in D - and then also claims that the authors of DTrace take
 credit for inventing it!

 I wonder which is the fallacy: is this really written in D?  Did the creators
 invent a different language and call it D?  Did the creators arrogantly and
 falsely claim they created D?  Or did the author of the article make a mistake?

 Interesting...

Jul 08 2004
prev sibling parent reply Stephen Waits <steve waits.net> writes:
FYI:
==========================================================

From: Bryan Cantrill <bmc zion.eng.sun.com>
To: steve waits.net
Cc: bmc eng.sun.com, mws eng.sun.com, ahl eng.sun.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:26:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: "D" language..

Hey Steve,

 It's been around for awhile: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/ In
 fact it's the first link returned when googling "d language".

When we started work on DTrace (in 2001), the D language wasn't around sufficiently to show up on a Google search; it seems that the D's were developed roughly in parallel. We don't intend to change the name of our D, and we think that our D and Digital Mars's D are sufficiently different that no one will be confused. And neither "D" can be trademarked, so there's no legal issue to speak of. Hopefully this didn't cause too much confusion...
 Were you all aware of this, and, are you considering renaming your
 language so as not to be so confusing?

 Nice work on the tool BTW.

Thanks! Have you used DTrace, or did you see us at USENIX last week? - Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. http://blogs.sun.com/bmc
Jul 08 2004
parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
D first appeared on slashdot in August, 2001, but had been started in
December 1999.

"Stephen Waits" <steve waits.net> wrote in message
news:cckm40$88v$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 FYI:
 ==========================================================

 From: Bryan Cantrill <bmc zion.eng.sun.com>
 To: steve waits.net
 Cc: bmc eng.sun.com, mws eng.sun.com, ahl eng.sun.com
 Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:26:08 -0700 (PDT)
 Subject: Re: "D" language..

 Hey Steve,

  > It's been around for awhile: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/ In
  > fact it's the first link returned when googling "d language".

 When we started work on DTrace (in 2001), the D language wasn't around
 sufficiently to show up on a Google search; it seems that the D's were
 developed roughly in parallel.  We don't intend to change the name of
 our D, and we think that our D and Digital Mars's D are sufficiently
 different that no one will be confused.  And neither "D" can be
 trademarked, so there's no legal issue to speak of.

 Hopefully this didn't cause too much confusion...

  > Were you all aware of this, and, are you considering renaming your
  > language so as not to be so confusing?
  >
  > Nice work on the tool BTW.

 Thanks!  Have you used DTrace, or did you see us at USENIX last week?

         - Bryan

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development.       http://blogs.sun.com/bmc

Jul 08 2004
parent reply Stephen Waits <steve waits.net> writes:
Walter wrote:
 D first appeared on slashdot in August, 2001, but had been started in
 December 1999.

I figured as much; however, it's between you and them. It probably doesn't bother you.. probably shouldn't anyway as your D has already become "D". --Steve
Jul 08 2004
parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Stephen Waits" <steve waits.net> wrote in message
news:ccl702$10h0$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Walter wrote:
 D first appeared on slashdot in August, 2001, but had been started in
 December 1999.

I figured as much; however, it's between you and them. It probably doesn't bother you.. probably shouldn't anyway as your D has already become "D".

I should also add that, as far as I can tell, Sun's language was not released until late 2003, when D was already firmly established. It's true that you cannot trademark a letter (Zilog tried that) or a number (Intel tried that), but if I were them I wouldn't call it D simply because I wouldn't want to spend every day answering questions about why it doesn't compile D code <g>.
Jul 09 2004
parent Bryan Cantrill <Bryan_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <ccmgf8$2usm$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...
"Stephen Waits" <steve waits.net> wrote in message
news:ccl702$10h0$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Walter wrote:
 D first appeared on slashdot in August, 2001, but had been started in
 December 1999.

I figured as much; however, it's between you and them. It probably doesn't bother you.. probably shouldn't anyway as your D has already become "D".

I should also add that, as far as I can tell, Sun's language was not released until late 2003, when D was already firmly established. It's true that you cannot trademark a letter (Zilog tried that) or a number (Intel tried that), but if I were them I wouldn't call it D simply because I wouldn't want to spend every day answering questions about why it doesn't compile D code <g>.

Sorry to disappoint, but this has never come up -- our D's are really pretty orthogonal. And (for whatever it's worth) by the time we learned of Digial Mars's D, our D was also already firmly established (we had several hundred active users of D inside of Sun for several years before it became publicly available). I don't think it's going to cause much confusion; when people want to refer to DTrace, they usually say "DTrace", not "the D language" or "D" (we don't really advertise our D -- we view it as more of a detail). But apologies for any consternation that this caused -- I'm just glad you didn't name your language DTrace... ;) - Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. http://blogs.sun.com/bmc
Jul 15 2004