## digitalmars.D - [Submission- std.math] asinh, acosh, atanh, cis, productLog.

- Don Clugston (328/329) Sep 12 2005 Here are the three least trivial mathematical functions from math2:
- Don Clugston (12/12) Sep 12 2005 A couple more comments:
- Sean Kelly (3/7) Sep 12 2005 With DMD? That's odd. dm/include/math.h has declarations for these fun...
- Don Clugston (25/35) Sep 12 2005 Yes, it is odd. Test program:
- Sean Kelly (10/31) Sep 12 2005 What about this:
- Walter Bright (6/14) Sep 12 2005 That's because they aren't implemented in the C runtime library yet. :-(
- Walter Bright (8/50) Sep 12 2005 Good!
- Derek Parnell (13/40) Sep 12 2005 On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:14:23 -0700, Walter Bright wrote:
- Walter Bright (20/23) Sep 12 2005 One always must be careful when thinking about the "mathematical" concep...
- Derek Parnell (49/75) Sep 12 2005 Huh? Okay, it must be me. I'm a simple person with simple ideas.
- Don Clugston (27/79) Sep 12 2005 Ah. It is not less than zero.
- Derek Parnell (29/87) Sep 13 2005 [snip]
- Don Clugston (15/57) Sep 13 2005 OK, that would work.
- Derek Parnell (30/68) Sep 13 2005 Am I writing with invisible ink?
- Don Clugston (32/72) Sep 13 2005 AHA! Here's the heart of the matter.
- Walter Bright (14/27) Sep 13 2005 values
- Walter Bright (19/24) Sep 13 2005 But it is relevant in certain situations. Please refer to
- Charles Hixson (10/26) Sep 13 2005 One could have sign() raise an exception if the concept of sign
- Don Clugston (11/19) Sep 14 2005 That's a really good point. I'd forgotten that sign() itself could
- Don Clugston (44/64) Sep 14 2005 Actually, more accurate and simpler is to return +-NAN when presented
- Don Clugston (19/72) Sep 14 2005 I've researched this further, and it should be called signum(), because
- Walter Bright (15/18) Sep 14 2005 NaN math follows its own logic, which is why most math functions will fi...
- Don Clugston (34/58) Sep 15 2005 Right. I realized the problem when I considered the creal case.
- Georg Wrede (32/73) Sep 15 2005 The standard leaves so many bit patterns for NaN that theoretically we
- Walter Bright (6/35) Sep 15 2005 Yes. It follows the IEEE 754 spec and the general convention on them.
- Don Clugston (25/40) Sep 15 2005 Nor do I, really. copysign() achieves the same thing in every case I've
- Walter Bright (24/47) Sep 16 2005 copysign() is a standard function and needs to be there. It just doesn't
- Sean Kelly (7/7) Sep 17 2005 There's an interesting article on slashdot today about a new method for ...
- Sean Kelly (5/11) Sep 17 2005 Upon further reading, while the author talks up his ideas quite a lot, I...
- =?iso-8859-1?q?Knud_S=F8rensen?= (6/23) Sep 18 2005 Sean I do not agree.
- Sean Kelly (12/16) Sep 18 2005 That's what I meant by its use as a teaching aid, though I'll admit that...
- Sai (22/30) Sep 18 2005 But I agree with sean,
- Don Clugston (25/60) Sep 19 2005 I meant sign() could be removed from std.math2, not copysign(). I've
- Walter Bright (7/21) Sep 19 2005 Yes. The only issue is for C libraries that don't have a truncl().
- Don Clugston (33/33) Sep 16 2005 On second thoughts, cis should be renamed to exp(ireal).

Here are the three least trivial mathematical functions from math2: cosh, sinh, tanh. Those functions in math2 had copyright issues, and also had several bugs. The implementations here are more extensively tested, faster, and are public domain. I also include cis(x) = cos + i sin, which is a fast operation on x86 CPUs. Also, productLog() and productLog_1(). This is the inverse of x * exp(x). I've used the simple Mathematica names rather than more common (but obscure) names, LambertW() and LambertW_1(). This function crops up all over the place but usually goes unrecognised because it was unnamed until quite recently (despite being first described in the 1700s!) If interested, look it up in Wikipedia. There's also an internal function for unit testing, which builds on my feqrel() function. This is a "second order" assert in that it allows a kind of 'for all' operation for testing inverses. This function is not intended to be publicly documented, but should be useful for other functions in std.math. Hopefully this moves us a lot closer to deprecating std.math2. Note that several of the other trig functions in std.math2 are just plain wrong. acot(), asec() and acosec() return incorrect results. They should be deleted. If anyone is using them, their code is wrong! Also, sign(real x) ignores the sign of negative zero, so that it violates the identity sign(x)*abs(x) == x when x=-0.0. It should never return 0, since zero has a sign in IEEE. It should be real sign(real x) { return signbit(x) ? -1.0 : 1.0; } and therefore ints should never return 0 either. int sign(int x) { return x<0 ? -1 : 1; } long sign(long x) { return x<0 ? -1 : 1; } -Don. //------------------------------------------------------------------ // (Private) functions for unit tests /** Test the consistency of a real function which has an inverse. Returns the worst (minimum) value of feqrel(x, inversefunc(forwardfunc(x))) for all x in the domain. Author: Don Clugston. License: Public Domain Params: forwardfunc Function to be tested inversefunc Inverse of forwardfunc domain A sequence of pairs of numbers giving the first and last points which are valid for the function. eg. (-real.infinity, real.infinity) ==> valid everywhere (-real.infinity, -real.min, real.min, real.infinity) ==> valid for x!=0. Returns: number of bits for which x and inversefunc(forwardfunc(x)) are equal for every point x in the domain. -1 = at least one point is wrong by a factor of 2 or more. */ int consistencyRealInverse(real function (real) forwardfunc, real function (real) inversefunc, real [] domain ...) { assert(domain.length>=2); // must have at least one valid range assert((domain.length & 1) == 0); // must have even number of endpoints. int worsterror=real.mant_dig+1; real worstx=domain[0]; // where does the biggest discrepancy occur? void testPoint(real x) { for (int i=0; i<domain.length; i+=2) { if (x>=domain[i] && x<=domain[i+1]) { int u=feqrel(x, inversefunc(forwardfunc(x)) ); if (u<worsterror) { worsterror=u; worstx=x; } return; } } } // test the edges of the domains foreach(real y; domain) testPoint(y); real x = 1.01; // first, go from 1 to infinity for (x=1.01; x!=x.infinity; x*=2.83) testPoint(x); // then from 1 to +0 for (x=0.98; x!=0; x*=0.401) testPoint(x); // from -1 to -0 for (x=-0.93; x!=0; x*=0.403) testPoint(x); // from -1 to -infinity for (x=-1.09; x!=-x.infinity; x*=2.97) testPoint(x); // writefln("Worst error is ", worsterror, " at x= ", worstx); return worsterror; } // return true if x is -0.0 bit isNegZero(real x) { return (x==0) && (signbit(x)==1); } // return true if x is +0.0 bit isPosZero(real x) { return (x==0) && (signbit(x)==0); } //------------------------------------------------------------------ // cis(theta) = cos(theta) + sin(theta)i. version (X86) { // On x86, this is almost as fast as sin(x). creal cis(real x) { asm { fld x; fsincos; fxch st(1), st(0); } } } else { creal cis(real x) { return cos(x) + sin(x)*1i; } } unittest { assert(cis(0)==1+0i); assert(cis(1.3e5)==cos(1.3e5)+sin(1.3e5)*1i); creal c = cis(real.nan); assert(isnan(c.re) && isnan(c.im)); c = cis(real.infinity); assert(isnan(c.re) && isnan(c.im)); } //------------------------------------------------------------------ // Inverse hyperbolic trig functions /** Inverse hyperbolic sine - the inverse of sinh(x) Author: Don Clugston License: Public Domain. Definition: asinh(x) = log( x + sqrt( x*x + 1 )) if x >= +0 asinh(x) = -log(-x + sqrt( x*x + 1 )) if x <= -0 Preserves sign of -0.0 Domain: -infinity..+infinity Range: -infinity, -log(real.max)..log(real.max), +infinity Special values: -inf -inf -0 -0 +0 +0 +inf +inf */ real asinh(real x) { if (fabs(x) > 1/real.epsilon) // beyond this point, x*x + 1 == x*x return copysign(LN2 + log(fabs(x)), x); else { // sqrt(x*x + 1) == 1 + x * x / ( 1 + sqrt(x*x + 1) ) return copysign(log1p(fabs(x) + x*x / (1 + sqrt(x*x + 1)) ), x); } } unittest { assert(isPosZero(asinh(0.0))); assert(isNegZero(asinh(-0.0))); assert(asinh(real.infinity)==real.infinity); assert(asinh(-real.infinity)==-real.infinity); assert(isnan(asinh(real.nan))); version (X86) { assert( consistencyRealInverse(&asinh, &sinh,-double.max, double.max)= double.mant_dig);assert( consistencyRealInverse(&asinh, &sinh,-1, 1) >= real.mant_dig-2); assert( consistencyRealInverse(&sinh, &asinh, -log(real.max)*(1+real.epsilon), log(real.max)*(1-real.epsilon) )>= double.mant_dig); } } /** Inverse hyperbolic cosine - the inverse of cosh(x) Author: Don Clugston License: Public Domain. Definition: acosh(x) = log(x + sqrt( x*x -1)) Domain: 1..infinity Range: 1..log(real.max), infinity Special values: <1 nan 1 0 +inf +inf */ real acosh(real x) { if (x > 1/real.epsilon) return LN2 + log(x); else return log(x + sqrt(x*x - 1)); } unittest { assert(isnan(acosh(0.9))); assert(isnan(acosh(real.nan))); assert(acosh(1)==0.0); assert(acosh(real.infinity) == real.infinity); version (X86) { assert( consistencyRealInverse(&acosh, &cosh, 1, double.max) >= double.mant_dig); assert( consistencyRealInverse(&cosh, &acosh, 1, log(real.max)*(1-real.epsilon)) >= real.mant_dig-1); } } /** Inverse hyperbolic tangent - the inverse of tanh(x) Author: Don Clugston License: Public Domain. Definition: atanh(x) = log( (1+x)/(1-x) ) / 2 Domain: -infinity..infinity Range: -1..1 */ real atanh(real x) { // log( (1+x)/(1-x) ) == log ( 1 + (2*x)/(1-x) ) return 0.5 * log1p( 2 * x / (1 - x) ); } unittest { assert(isPosZero(atanh(0.0))); assert(isNegZero(atanh(-0.0))); assert(isnan(atanh(real.nan))); assert(isNegZero(atanh(-real.infinity))); version (X86) { assert( consistencyRealInverse(&atanh, &tanh, -1, 1) >= real.mant_dig-2); assert( consistencyRealInverse(&tanh, &atanh, -1,1) >= real.mant_dig-1); } } //------------------------------------------------------------------ // Lambert's W function, also known as ProductLog /** productLog() is the inverse of x*exp(x) and is also known as Lambert's W-function. productLog(x*exp(x)) == x, where x >= -exp(-1) A second inverse, productLog_1(x), can be defined for real x<=-exp(-1). Author: Don Clugston. Date: 2005-09-01. License: Public Domain. Using an algorithm originally developed by Keith Briggs http://keithbriggs.info */ real productLog(real x) { real w; if (x < 0.5) { if (fabs(x) < x.epsilon/2) return x; // exp(x)==1 for small x. if (x <= -1/E) { if (x== -1/E) return -1; // avoid div by zero return x.nan; // no solution } real p = sqrt( 2.0 * ( E*x + 1.0 ) ); w=-1.0+p*(1.0+p*(-1/3.0 + p*11.0/72.0)); } else { if (isnan(x)) return x.nan; w = log(x); if (x > 3) { w = w-log(w); if (x==x.infinity) return x.infinity; } } real e,t,w2=w; int kount=0; do { // Halley iterations. Never requires more than 4 iterations. w = w2; e = exp(w); t = w*e - x; t /= e*(w+1.0) - 0.5*(w+2.0)*t / (w+1.0); w2 -= t; kount++; if (kount>20) { writefln(x); return x; } } while (fabs(t)>=x.epsilon*(1.0+fabs(w2))); return w2; } /** The inverse of y*exp(y) where y <= -exp(-1) Params: x -1/E <= x <= 0 Returns: y such that y*exp(y)==x and y <= -exp(-1). Author: Don Clugston. Date: 2005-09-01. License: Public Domain. Using an algorithm originally developed by Keith Briggs (http://keithbriggs.info) */ real productLog_1(real x) { real w; if (x<-1/E || x>=0.0 || isnan(x)) return x.nan; // initial approx for iteration... if (x<-1e-6) { // series about -1/e if (x==-1/E) return -1; // avoid div by zero real p=-sqrt(2.0*(E*x+1.0)); w=-1.0+p*(1.0+p*(-1/3.0 + p*11.0/72.0)); } else { // asymptotic near zero real l1=log(-x); real l2=log(-l1); w=l1-l2+l2/l1; } if (x>-real.epsilon) return -x.infinity; real e, t, w2=w; do { // Halley iterations. Never requires more than 10 iterations. w = w2; e = exp(w); t = w*e - x; t /= e*(w+1.0) - 0.5*(w+2.0)*t / (w+1.0); w2 -= t; } while (fabs(t)>=x.epsilon*(1.0+fabs(w2))); return w2; } // x*exp(x). Used only for testing real productExp(real x) { return x*exp(x); } unittest { assert(productLog(-1/E)==-1); assert(isnan(productLog(real.nan))); assert(isNegZero(productLog(-0.0))); assert(isPosZero(productLog(0.0))); assert(productLog(E)==1); version (X86) { assert( consistencyRealInverse(&productLog, &productExp, -1/E, double.max) >= double.mant_dig); assert( consistencyRealInverse(&productExp, &productLog,-1, 11000) >= real.mant_dig-3); } assert(productLog_1(-1/E)==-1); assert(productLog_1(-real.infinity)==0); assert(isnan(productLog_1(real.nan))); version (X86) { assert( consistencyRealInverse(&productLog_1, &productExp, -1/E, -real.epsilon) >= double.mant_dig); assert( consistencyRealInverse(&productExp, &productLog_1, log(real.epsilon), -1) >= double.mant_dig); } }

Sep 12 2005

A couple more comments: * The following functions are defined in std.c.math, but if you use them, you'll get a link time error: acoshl(), asinhl(), atanhl(). They should be removed from std.c.math and the (commented out) forwarding functions in std.math should also be removed. * The list of constants in std.math should include const ireal I = 1.0i; for compatibility with C99 and for situations like cos(PI) + I * sin(PI) where you want to convert a function result from real to imaginary. -Don.

Sep 12 2005

In article <dg41m1$1o5k$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Don Clugston says...A couple more comments: * The following functions are defined in std.c.math, but if you use them, you'll get a link time error: acoshl(), asinhl(), atanhl().With DMD? That's odd. dm/include/math.h has declarations for these functions. Sean

Sep 12 2005

Sean Kelly wrote:Yes, it is odd. Test program: -------------------------------- import std.c.math; int main() { real x = acoshl(1.0); return 0; } ------------------------------- c:\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe bug,bug.exe,,user32+kernel32,bug.def/noi; OPTLINK (R) for Win32 Release 7.50B1 Copyright (C) Digital Mars 1989 - 2001 All Rights Reserved bug.obj(bug) Error 42: Symbol Undefined _acoshl --- errorlevel 1 -------------------------------------- Why? Well, they are not standard C routines. Not included in VC++, for example. So they probably aren't part of gcc, hence they must be defined for the sake of gdc. They were probably removed from the dmd lib when gdc was born. I suspect that the functions in dmc are copyright and so can't be used in phobos. Just a guess. - Don.* The following functions are defined in std.c.math, but if you use them, you'll get a link time error: acoshl(), asinhl(), atanhl().With DMD? That's odd. dm/include/math.h has declarations for these functions. Sean

Sep 12 2005

In article <dg49vr$1vch$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Don Clugston says...Sean Kelly wrote:What about this: real x = acoshl( cast(real) 1.0 );Yes, it is odd. Test program: -------------------------------- import std.c.math; int main() { real x = acoshl(1.0); return 0; } -------------------------------* The following functions are defined in std.c.math, but if you use them, you'll get a link time error: acoshl(), asinhl(), atanhl().With DMD? That's odd. dm/include/math.h has declarations for these functions. SeanWhy? Well, they are not standard C routines.They are standard C routines as of the C99 spec. But DMC is more up to date than most compilers with respect to C99 library conformance. For what it's worth, I have a full implementation of std.c.math here: http://svn.dsource.org/projects/ares/trunk/src/ares/std/c/math.d It's correct for DMD as far as I know, but other compilers may not implement all the declared functions. Sean

Sep 12 2005

"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dg41m1$1o5k$1 digitaldaemon.com...* The following functions are defined in std.c.math, but if you use them, you'll get a link time error: acoshl(), asinhl(), atanhl().That's because they aren't implemented in the C runtime library yet. :-(* The list of constants in std.math should include const ireal I = 1.0i; for compatibility with C99 and for situations likeI disagree with forwarding I from C into D, it's not needed for compatibility.cos(PI) + I * sin(PI) where you want to convert a function result from real to imaginary.cos(PI) + sin(PI) *1i;

Sep 12 2005

"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dg40b2$1mud$1 digitaldaemon.com...Here are the three least trivial mathematical functions from math2: cosh, sinh, tanh. Those functions in math2 had copyright issues, and also had several bugs. The implementations here are more extensively tested, faster, and are public domain. I also include cis(x) = cos + i sin, which is a fast operation on x86 CPUs.Good!Also, productLog() and productLog_1(). This is the inverse of x * exp(x). I've used the simple Mathematica names rather than more common (but obscure) names, LambertW() and LambertW_1(). This function crops up all over the place but usually goes unrecognised because it was unnamed until quite recently (despite being first described in the 1700s!) If interested, look it up in Wikipedia. There's also an internal function for unit testing, which builds on my feqrel() function. This is a "second order" assert in that it allows a kind of 'for all' operation for testing inverses. This function is not intended to be publicly documented, but should be useful for other functions in std.math.Ok.Hopefully this moves us a lot closer to deprecating std.math2.I want to get rid of std.math2.Note that several of the other trig functions in std.math2 are just plain wrong. acot(), asec() and acosec() return incorrect results. They should be deleted. If anyone is using them, their code is wrong!Let's just get rid of std.math2.Also, sign(real x) ignores the sign of negative zero, so that it violates the identity sign(x)*abs(x) == x when x=-0.0. It should never return 0, since zero has a sign in IEEE. It should be real sign(real x) { return signbit(x) ? -1.0 : 1.0; } and therefore ints should never return 0 either. int sign(int x) { return x<0 ? -1 : 1; } long sign(long x) { return x<0 ? -1 : 1; }sign() is a redundant function, it's more trouble to document and look up than it's worth. signbit() is adequate for the job.

Sep 12 2005

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:14:23 -0700, Walter Bright wrote: [snip]Garbage! Its called 'abstraction'. The term 'signbit' implies that we are asking for a detail of the implementation rather than the mathematical concept of 'sign'. You could just do an 'alias sign signbit;' if you really didn't want to do a better implementation. However, there isn't a signbit() function for ints and other number types. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia 13/09/2005 7:24:32 AMAlso, sign(real x) ignores the sign of negative zero, so that it violates the identity sign(x)*abs(x) == x when x=-0.0. It should never return 0, since zero has a sign in IEEE. It should be real sign(real x) { return signbit(x) ? -1.0 : 1.0; } and therefore ints should never return 0 either. int sign(int x) { return x<0 ? -1 : 1; } long sign(long x) { return x<0 ? -1 : 1; }sign() is a redundant function, it's more trouble to document and look up than it's worth. signbit() is adequate for the job.

Sep 12 2005

"Derek Parnell" <derek psych.ward> wrote in message news:y1h8ymdxkhwn.tg27eopfhs2k.dlg 40tude.net...Garbage! Its called 'abstraction'. The term 'signbit' implies that we are asking for a detail of the implementation rather than the mathematical concept of 'sign'.One always must be careful when thinking about the "mathematical" concept of sign, because floating point doesn't work that way. There's the issue of negative 0, which is not really a mathematical concept, it's more of a kludge to deal with the finite precision of the floating point format. There's also the sign bit of a NaN number, what does that mean? Any time one wants to test for the signedness of a floating point number, one has to think about "what happens if it is -0" and "what happens if it is a NaN". Making a function called "sign()" can't resolve the problem. It'll pretend to, and that'll lead to bugs. If one wants to go beyond (a<0), using signbit() is the right approach, because it causes one to have to think about the other cases. The signbit() function is necessary because otherwise getting at the sign bit of the floating point value is a clumsy, nonportable hack. A sign() function does not add sufficient value, and it may even serve to obfuscate things because the reader will have to go look up the doc on it to see what it does with -0 and -NaN. std.math should strive to be an orthogonal set of nontrivial building blocks. Don's work with the arc hyperbolics are a perfect example of great additions to it.

Sep 12 2005

On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:59:23 -0700, Walter Bright wrote:"Derek Parnell" <derek psych.ward> wrote in message news:y1h8ymdxkhwn.tg27eopfhs2k.dlg 40tude.net...Huh? Okay, it must be me. I'm a simple person with simple ideas. When somebody asks me what's the sign of such-and-such, I just say "Negative" if its less than zero, "Positive" if greater than zero and "Nothing" if it is zero OR not a number. What has that got to do with floating point, conceptually or physically?Garbage! Its called 'abstraction'. The term 'signbit' implies that we are asking for a detail of the implementation rather than the mathematical concept of 'sign'.One always must be careful when thinking about the "mathematical" concept of sign, because floating point doesn't work that way. There's the issue of negative 0, which is not really a mathematical concept, it's more of a kludge to deal with the finite precision of the floating point format. There's also the sign bit of a NaN number, what does that mean?Any time one wants to test for the signedness of a floating point number, one has to think about "what happens if it is -0"is -0 less than zero? If yes, then its negative.and "what happens if it is a NaN".NaN is Not A Number so therefore it doesn't have a sign.Making a function called "sign()" can't resolve the problem.I think it can ... enum signedness { Negative = -1, Nothing = 0, Positive = 1 } template getsign(TYPE) { signedness getsign( TYPE x) { if (x < 0) return signedness.Negative; if (x > 0) return signedness.Positive; return signedness.Nothing; } } alias getsign!(float) sign; alias getsign!(double) sign; alias getsign!(real) sign; alias getsign!(int) sign; alias getsign!(long) sign; alias getsign!(short) sign;It'll pretend to, and that'll lead to bugs. If one wants to go beyond (a<0), using signbit() is the right approach, because it causes one to have to think about the other cases.So does using enums.The signbit() function is necessary because otherwise getting at the sign bit of the floating point value is a clumsy, nonportable hack.Yes, signbit() is required to GET AT THE SIGN BIT. But that is not what I'm talking about. That is an implementation detail of the particular floating point representation system you choose to use. It has nothing to do with the simple mathematical question "what is the sign of X?", which may be a floating point, fixed point, or integer.A sign() function does not add sufficient value,Says who? You? And how come you get to be the Grand Arbiter of "sufficient value"? What empirical measurement did you apply to get to that decision? Define 'sufficient' in this context. I would say that value is in the eye of the beholder.and it may even serve to obfuscate things because the reader will have to go look up the doc on it to see what it does with -0 and -NaN. std.math should strive to be an orthogonal set of nontrivial building blocks.Why 'nontrivial'? What may be trivial to one person is not so to others. Some people regard various sort algorithms as trivial. The library should be an enabler. -- Derek (skype: derek.j.parnell) Melbourne, Australia 13/09/2005 2:19:42 PM

Sep 12 2005

Derek Parnell wrote:On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:59:23 -0700, Walter Bright wrote:Ah. It is not less than zero. The sign bit doesn't correspond exactly to mathematical sign. It's almost a 'history' bit -- did we get to zero from above or below? 1.0/+infinity = 0.0 1.0/-infinity = -0.0 and 1.0 / 0.0 = +infinity 1.0 / -0.0 = -infinity Therefore, if Given x, if we let y = sign(x) * abs(x) then with sign as you've described, sign(-0.0)=0 so y = 0.0. With IEEE, you'll have x==y. But... 1.0/x = -infinity 1.0/y = +infinity. so x and y are not the same. It is important for sign(x)*abs(x) to be the same as x. If you want to know "is it less than zero", use the built in < operator."Derek Parnell" <derek psych.ward> wrote in message news:y1h8ymdxkhwn.tg27eopfhs2k.dlg 40tude.net...Huh? Okay, it must be me. I'm a simple person with simple ideas. When somebody asks me what's the sign of such-and-such, I just say "Negative" if its less than zero, "Positive" if greater than zero and "Nothing" if it is zero OR not a number. What has that got to do with floating point, conceptually or physically?Garbage! Its called 'abstraction'. The term 'signbit' implies that we are asking for a detail of the implementation rather than the mathematical concept of 'sign'.One always must be careful when thinking about the "mathematical" concept of sign, because floating point doesn't work that way. There's the issue of negative 0, which is not really a mathematical concept, it's more of a kludge to deal with the finite precision of the floating point format. There's also the sign bit of a NaN number, what does that mean?Any time one wants to test for the signedness of a floating point number, one has to think about "what happens if it is -0"is -0 less than zero? If yes, then its negative.Yes, signbit() is required to GET AT THE SIGN BIT. But that is not what I'm talking about. That is an implementation detail of the particular floating point representation system you choose to use. It has nothing to do with the simple mathematical question "what is the sign of X?", which may be a floating point, fixed point, or integer.A sign() function does not add sufficient value,Says who? You? And how come you get to be the Grand Arbiter of "sufficient value"? What empirical measurement did you apply to get to that decision? Define 'sufficient' in this context. I would say that value is in the eye of the beholder.Have you heard the saying, "every line of code is a liability"? You have to document and maintain it. And library users have to learn all the available functions. It's a cost benefit thing. Of course it's subjective, and is Walter's opinion, but if you want to persuade him, you need to provide use cases. The cost is clear. The benefit at this stage is not. When would you use sign() ?and it may even serve to obfuscate things because the reader will have to go look up the doc on it to see what it does with -0 and -NaN. std.math should strive to be an orthogonal set of nontrivial building blocks.Why 'nontrivial'? What may be trivial to one person is not so to others. Some people regard various sort algorithms as trivial. The library should be an enabler.

Sep 12 2005

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:36:00 +0200, Don Clugston wrote:Derek Parnell wrote:[snip][snip]When somebody asks me what's the sign of such-and-such, I just say "Negative" if its less than zero, "Positive" if greater than zero and "Nothing" if it is zero OR not a number.I wasn't talking about the sign bit. That's an implementation artifact. I am talking about the mathematical sign.is -0 less than zero? If yes, then its negative.Ah. It is not less than zero. The sign bit doesn't correspond exactly to mathematical sign.It's almost a 'history' bit -- did we get to zero from above or below? 1.0/+infinity = 0.0 1.0/-infinity = -0.0 and 1.0 / 0.0 = +infinity 1.0 / -0.0 = -infinitySo -0.0 is zero that's come from the direction of -infinity.Therefore, if Given x, if we let y = sign(x) * abs(x) then with sign as you've described, sign(-0.0)=0 so y = 0.0.What is the value of abs(-0.0)? Is it zero? If it is, then the value of sign(-0.0) is not relevant.With IEEE, you'll have x==y. But... 1.0/x = -infinity 1.0/y = +infinity. so x and y are not the same. It is important for sign(x)*abs(x) to be the same as x.Why is that important? Why does sign() have to return -1, 0, or 1? It could return any one of three values, where one informs you that the input is negative, another informs you that it is positive, and the third that it has no mathematical sign.If you want to know "is it less than zero", use the built in < operator.Yes, that is what I would do. I can't see any reason why I would need to use a sign() function. I am just arguing from a philosophical point of view.No, I haven't. I would hope that every line of code is an asset, even it does have a cost associated with it.Yes, signbit() is required to GET AT THE SIGN BIT. But that is not what I'm talking about. That is an implementation detail of the particular floating point representation system you choose to use. It has nothing to do with the simple mathematical question "what is the sign of X?", which may be a floating point, fixed point, or integer.A sign() function does not add sufficient value,Says who? You? And how come you get to be the Grand Arbiter of "sufficient value"? What empirical measurement did you apply to get to that decision? Define 'sufficient' in this context. I would say that value is in the eye of the beholder.Have you heard the saying, "every line of code is a liability"?and it may even serve to obfuscate things because the reader will have to go look up the doc on it to see what it does with -0 and -NaN. std.math should strive to be an orthogonal set of nontrivial building blocks.Why 'nontrivial'? What may be trivial to one person is not so to others. Some people regard various sort algorithms as trivial. The library should be an enabler.You have to document and maintain it.Yep, that's the cost. Pretty small one too.And library users have to learn all the available functions.No they don't. I only learn about the ones I need to use.It's a cost benefit thing. Of course it's subjective, and is Walter's opinion, but if you want to persuade him, you need to provide use cases. The cost is clear. The benefit at this stage is not. When would you use sign() ?No, I can't see myself using it. But once it exists and tested, it's cost is microscopic and it would be appreciated by someone, therefore benefiting both the user and the librarian. -- Derek (skype: derek.j.parnell) Melbourne, Australia 13/09/2005 5:13:32 PM

Sep 13 2005

Exactly.I wasn't talking about the sign bit. That's an implementation artifact. I am talking about the mathematical sign.is -0 less than zero? If yes, then its negative.Ah. It is not less than zero. The sign bit doesn't correspond exactly to mathematical sign.It's almost a 'history' bit -- did we get to zero from above or below? 1.0/+infinity = 0.0 1.0/-infinity = -0.0 and 1.0 / 0.0 = +infinity 1.0 / -0.0 = -infinitySo -0.0 is zero that's come from the direction of -infinity.OK, that would work. But then you have to look up the docs for sign() to find out what the values are, and it doesn't help with writing or reading code. And the value of the function drops. In the extreme case, you could have a library with functions like real plus57point36(real x) { return x + 57.36; } Trivial, and useless. A problem with trivial functions is that there are so many of them. Why should only some get library status? How can you decide which are in, and which are out? I really think you have to be confident that the functions will be useful in multiple programs. Functions which are trivial and rarely used are generally not worth the effort. But there's definitely a gray area where it is very subjective.Given x, if we let y = sign(x) * abs(x) then with sign as you've described, sign(-0.0)=0 so y = 0.0.What is the value of abs(-0.0)? Is it zero? If it is, then the value of sign(-0.0) is not relevant.With IEEE, you'll have x==y. But... 1.0/x = -infinity 1.0/y = +infinity. so x and y are not the same. It is important for sign(x)*abs(x) to be the same as x.Why is that important? Why does sign() have to return -1, 0, or 1? It could return any one of three values, where one informs you that the input is negative, another informs you that it is positive, and the third that it has no mathematical sign.

Sep 13 2005

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:48:09 +0200, Don Clugston wrote: [snip]Am I writing with invisible ink? My point was, that if "sign(x) * abs(x) == x" must be true for all values of x, and if the value of abs(-0.0) is zero, then it is irrelevant *in this context* what the value of sign(-0.0) is because the result of sign(-0.0)*abs(-0.0) will always be zero and never -0.0Given x, if we let y = sign(x) * abs(x) then with sign as you've described, sign(-0.0)=0 so y = 0.0.What is the value of abs(-0.0)? Is it zero? If it is, then the value of sign(-0.0) is not relevant.What rubbish! We need to look up the docs for all functions at least once. And what's hard about doing that, especially with the whizz-bang IDEs that modern-day coders are so dependant on.OK, that would work. But then you have to look up the docs for sign() to find out what the values are,With IEEE, you'll have x==y. But... 1.0/x = -infinity 1.0/y = +infinity. so x and y are not the same. It is important for sign(x)*abs(x) to be the same as x.Why is that important? Why does sign() have to return -1, 0, or 1? It could return any one of three values, where one informs you that the input is negative, another informs you that it is positive, and the third that it has no mathematical sign.and it doesn't help with writing or reading code. And the value of the function drops.Are you trying to be difficult? How is this hard to read ... if (sign(x) == Negative) Is that not self documenting? IMNHSO, that is better than something like ... if (sign(x) == -1) because -1 is MINUS-ONE and not Negative. It might be a symbolic code that used to represent Negative, but in itself, it is not Negative, it's minus-one! Just as my 'Negative' is a symbolic representation of the concept, at least it is self documenting.In the extreme case, you could have a library with functions like real plus57point36(real x) { return x + 57.36; } Trivial, and useless.Now you are insulting me. Even the hypothetical sign() function would get hugely more usage than this *extreme* example, so what's your point?A problem with trivial functions is that there are so many of them. Why should only some get library status? How can you decide which are in, and which are out? I really think you have to be confident that the functions will be useful in multiple programs. Functions which are trivial and rarely used are generally not worth the effort. But there's definitely a gray area where it is very subjective.Isn't one of the lovely things about 'trivial' routines is that they can be inlined by the compiler and still create legible code by expressing the coders intentions better than spelling out the operation in full every time. -- Derek Parnell Melbourne, Australia 13/09/2005 9:22:35 PM

Sep 13 2005

Am I writing with invisible ink? My point was, that if "sign(x) * abs(x) == x" must be true for all values of x, and if the value of abs(-0.0) is zero, then it is irrelevant *in this context* what the value of sign(-0.0) is because the result of sign(-0.0)*abs(-0.0) will always be zero and never -0.0AHA! Here's the heart of the matter. That is what you'd expect, intuitively. But intuition is misleading in this case. Indeed, abs(-0.0) returns 0.0. But -1 * 0.0 returns -0.0 whereas 1 * 0.0 returns 0.0 It does make a difference what sign(-0.0) returns. I think this is why we have this disagreement. sign(x) returning -1, 0, or 1 is intuitive, but unfortunately it's wrong for computer mathematics. There is a standard mathematical function sign(), AKA signum(), which returns -1, 0, or 1, depending on the sign. You'd normally use it in an expression, multiplying by something else. Eg: sign(x) * log(abs(x)) An important feature of this function is that sign(x)*abs(x) returns x. Unfortunately, you cannot satisfy this identity without violating your intuition (sign(0) can't return 0). And since sign(0) can't return 0, then another identity is violated: if (a==b) implies sign(a)==sign(b) will be violated if a is 0.0 and b is -0.0. Both are zero, yet they have opposite signs.Are you trying to be difficult? How is this hard to read ... if (sign(x) == Negative) Is that not self documenting? IMNHSO, that is better than something like if (sign(x) == -1) because -1 is MINUS-ONE and not Negative. It might be a symbolic codethatused to represent Negative, but in itself, it is not Negative, it's minus-one! Just as my 'Negative' is a symbolic representation of the concept, at least it is self documenting.>I'm not intending to insult you. The point is to establish that you have to draw the line somewhere. Once we agree that there is a line, we can discuss where it lies, and that's likely to be much more fruitful.In the extreme case, you could have a library with functions like real plus57point36(real x) { return x + 57.36; } Trivial, and useless.Now you are insulting me. Even the hypothetical sign() function would get hugely more usage than this *extreme* example, so what's your point?if (sign(x) == Negative) is less legible and longer than if (x<0) and it is clear what the latter does when presented with a NAN or a negative 0. If you could write an intuitive and correct sign() function, I would agree that it belongs in a library. But it's just not possible.A problem with trivial functions is that there are so many of them. Why should only some get library status? How can you decide which are in, and which are out? I really think you have to be confident that the functions will be useful in multiple programs. Functions which are trivial and rarely used are generally not worth the effort. But there's definitely a gray area where it is very subjective.Isn't one of the lovely things about 'trivial' routines is that they can be inlined by the compiler and still create legible code by expressing the coders intentions better than spelling out the operation in full every time.

Sep 13 2005

"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dg6o3m$1ekn$1 digitaldaemon.com...valuesAm I writing with invisible ink? My point was, that if "sign(x) * abs(x) == x" must be true for allthisof x, and if the value of abs(-0.0) is zero, then it is irrelevant *inThe following also holds with floating point math: 0 * 0 => 0 0 * -0 => -0 -0 * 0 => -0 -0 * -0 => 0 For one case where the sign of 0 is critical, consider the atan2 function: atan2(0, -0) => pi atan2(-0, -0) => -pi pow() is also sensitive to the sign of 0 for x when y is a negative odd integer - it will return plus or minus infinity.context* what the value of sign(-0.0) is because the result of sign(-0.0)*abs(-0.0) will always be zero and never -0.0AHA! Here's the heart of the matter. That is what you'd expect, intuitively. But intuition is misleading in this case. Indeed, abs(-0.0) returns 0.0. But -1 * 0.0 returns -0.0 whereas 1 * 0.0 returns 0.0 It does make a difference what sign(-0.0) returns.

Sep 13 2005

"Derek Parnell" <derek psych.ward> wrote in message news:3u4tyzqorpzs$.19mwmyde18c3i.dlg 40tude.net...What is the value of abs(-0.0)? Is it zero? If it is, then the value of sign(-0.0) is not relevant.But it is relevant in certain situations. Please refer to http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~wkahan/JAVAhurt.pdf pages 13 to 15 by Prof. Kahan, who pretty much invented IEEE 754 floating point arithmetic. The sign of 0 is carefully maintained and tracked by the underlying floating point implementation and the math functions.No, I can't see myself using it. But once it exists and tested, it's cost is microscopic and it would be appreciated by someone, thereforebenefitingboth the user and the librarian.If the library fills up with trivial one liners, it will serve to discourage people from using it. Library functions need to each have a significant purpose. For example, consider the extreme case: int addTwo(int x) { return x + 2; } Can we agree that one would look askance at a library containing such functions? I sure would suspect that the author of such a library was trying to pump up the function count for marketing purposes. On the other hand, writing a well behaved, efficient asinh() is not at all easy, and so it makes for an ideal library function. Where's the dividing line? Of course it's a matter of judgement, and to me sign() falls on the wrong side of that line.

Sep 13 2005

Walter Bright wrote:"Derek Parnell" <derek psych.ward> wrote in message news:y1h8ymdxkhwn.tg27eopfhs2k.dlg 40tude.net......One could have sign() raise an exception if the concept of sign didn't really apply, and require that those cases be handled with signbit(). Or one could return +1, 0, or -1, with zero being both 0 & -0 (and either raise an exception for Nan's or shoehorn those into the 0 value also). There are reasonable ways to handle it, but there are different requirements for signbit() and sign(). signbit() specifically addresses the internal representation.

Sep 13 2005

One could have sign() raise an exception if the concept of sign didn't really apply, and require that those cases be handled with signbit(). Or one could return +1, 0, or -1, with zero being both 0 & -0 (and either raise an exception for Nan's or shoehorn those into the 0 value also).That's a really good point. I'd forgotten that sign() itself could return a negative zero. It should return 0 & -0 for +-NAN. Well done, guys, you've convinced me. When defined in that way, sign() has obvious uses, and is surprisingly subtle and easy to get wrong. real sign(real x) { return x>0 ? 1 : x<0 ? -1 : copysign(0, x); } behaves intuitively, and satisfies sign(x)*abs(x) is the same as x, for all x, even when x=-0.0, +-NAN. Now we have something (IMHO) well worthy of inclusion.There are reasonable ways to handle it, but there are different requirements for signbit() and sign(). signbit() specifically addresses the internal representation.

Sep 14 2005

Don Clugston wrote:Actually, more accurate and simpler is to return +-NAN when presented with a NAN. This also satisfies the identity, because -NAN * NAN = -NAN. So actually there are six different possible return values from this function! It can be done with only a single branch. How about it, Walter? ----------------------------------- /** The mathematical sign() or signum() function. Returns 1 if x is positive, -1 if x is negative, 0 if x is zero, real.nan if x is a nan. Preserves sign of +-0 and +-nan. */ real sign(real x) { return x<>0 ? copysign(1, x) : x; } unittest { assert( sign(-2.5) == -1 ); assert( isNegZero(sign(-0.0)) ); assert( isPosZero(sign(0.0)) ); assert( sign(real.infinity)==1 ); assert( isPosNan(sign(real.nan)) ); assert( isNegNan(sign(-real.nan)) ); } // internal only bit isPosNan(real x) { return isnan(x) && !signbit(x); } bit isNegNan(real x) { return isnan(x) && signbit(x); } // for completeness int sign(int x) { return x>0 ? 1 : x<0 ? -1 : x; } long sign(long x) { return x>0 ? 1 : x<0 ? -1 : x; }One could have sign() raise an exception if the concept of sign didn't really apply, and require that those cases be handled with signbit(). Or one could return +1, 0, or -1, with zero being both 0 & -0 (and either raise an exception for Nan's or shoehorn those into the 0 value also).That's a really good point. I'd forgotten that sign() itself could return a negative zero. It should return 0 & -0 for +-NAN. Well done, guys, you've convinced me. When defined in that way, sign() has obvious uses, and is surprisingly subtle and easy to get wrong. real sign(real x) { return x>0 ? 1 : x<0 ? -1 : copysign(0, x); } behaves intuitively, and satisfies sign(x)*abs(x) is the same as x, for all x, even when x=-0.0, +-NAN.

Sep 14 2005

I've researched this further, and it should be called signum(), because it can be defined for complex numbers, whereas sign() cannot. signum() returns a number with the same phase as z, but with unit magnitude, except that if z is a complex zero, it returns z. Again, it obeys signum(z) * abs(z) ===> z The code below is not correct for nans, but gives the idea. Further work is required (need to do complex abs() at the same time). It's amazing how something so apparently trivial becomes complicated. creal signum(creal z) { return nonzero(z) ? z/abs(z) : z; } // returns false if z is zero or has a nan component bit nonzero(creal z) { return !isnan(z.im) && !isnan(z.re) && z != 0 + 0i; } Don Clugston wrote:Don Clugston wrote: Actually, more accurate and simpler is to return +-NAN when presented with a NAN. This also satisfies the identity, because -NAN * NAN = -NAN. So actually there are six different possible return values from this function! It can be done with only a single branch. How about it, Walter? ----------------------------------- /** The mathematical sign() or signum() function. Returns 1 if x is positive, -1 if x is negative, 0 if x is zero, real.nan if x is a nan. Preserves sign of +-0 and +-nan. */ real sign(real x) { return x<>0 ? copysign(1, x) : x; } unittest { assert( sign(-2.5) == -1 ); assert( isNegZero(sign(-0.0)) ); assert( isPosZero(sign(0.0)) ); assert( sign(real.infinity)==1 ); assert( isPosNan(sign(real.nan)) ); assert( isNegNan(sign(-real.nan)) ); } // internal only bit isPosNan(real x) { return isnan(x) && !signbit(x); } bit isNegNan(real x) { return isnan(x) && signbit(x); } // for completeness int sign(int x) { return x>0 ? 1 : x<0 ? -1 : x; } long sign(long x) { return x>0 ? 1 : x<0 ? -1 : x; }

Sep 14 2005

"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dg8jvj$a5e$1 digitaldaemon.com...behaves intuitively, and satisfies sign(x)*abs(x) is the same as x, for all x, even when x=-0.0, +-NAN.NaN math follows its own logic, which is why most math functions will first check for NaN operands and do something special with them separately from the main logic. The sign bit for a NaN has no meaning, and any program that relies on it is faulty. abs(NaN) should return a NaN, not +NaN, as there really is no such thing as a + or - NaN even though the bit is there. sign(NaN) should therefore return NaN. This implies that floating point hardware may give random results for the NaN sign bit. What one must be careful of, in using things like signbit(), is that one does not generate a dependence on the sign of NaN. (sign(NaN)*abs(NaN)==NaN) must return false, even if the bit patterns match exactly, as any comparison op with either or both operands being NaN will return false.

Sep 14 2005

Walter Bright wrote:"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dg8jvj$a5e$1 digitaldaemon.com...Right. I realized the problem when I considered the creal case. If a creal z contains a nan and a non-nan, there is no way that signum(z)*abs(z) can be the same as z, because abs(z) must be nan. I was thinking there are some cases where a NaN is produced where the sign is still known, (eg +infinity/+infinity) but since NaNs are not comparable it doesn't really make any sense. Does D have a policy on dealing with NaNs? If a function recieves a NaN, it is required to pass on the same NaN, or is it OK to simply return real.nan? (thereby destroying any information stored in the spare NaN bits, which it seems that D is not using). The former would cause issues if a function recieves two nans -- which should be passed on? In this case the non-signed-ness of NaN doesn't make any difference to the code, just to the comments and the unit tests. I'll do a version for complex numbers and resubmit, together with abs. --------------------------- /** The mathematical sign (positive, negative, or zero) Defined such that signum(x)*abs(x) == x Returns: 1 if x is positive, -1 if x is negative, 0 if x is zero. Preserves sign of +-0. Returns NaN if x is a NaN. */ real signum(real x) { return x<>0 ? copysign(1, x) : x; } unittest { assert( signum(-2.5) == -1 ); assert( isNegZero(signum(-0.0)) ); assert( isPosZero(signum(0.0)) ); assert( signum(real.infinity)==1 ); assert( isnan(signum(real.nan)) ); }behaves intuitively, and satisfies sign(x)*abs(x) is the same as x, for all x, even when x=-0.0, +-NAN.NaN math follows its own logic, which is why most math functions will first check for NaN operands and do something special with them separately from the main logic. The sign bit for a NaN has no meaning, and any program that relies on it is faulty. abs(NaN) should return a NaN, not +NaN, as there really is no such thing as a + or - NaN even though the bit is there. sign(NaN) should therefore return NaN. This implies that floating point hardware may give random results for the NaN sign bit. What one must be careful of, in using things like signbit(), is that one does not generate a dependence on the sign of NaN. (sign(NaN)*abs(NaN)==NaN) must return false, even if the bit patterns match exactly, as any comparison op with either or both operands being NaN will return false.

Sep 15 2005

Don Clugston wrote:Walter Bright wrote:"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dg8jvj$a5e$1 digitaldaemon.com...behaves intuitively, and satisfies sign(x)*abs(x) is the same as x, for all x, even when x=-0.0, +-NAN.NaN math follows its own logic, which is why most math functions will first check for NaN operands and do something special with them separately from the main logic. The sign bit for a NaN has no meaning, and any program that relies on it is faulty. abs(NaN) should return a NaN, not +NaN, as there really is no such thing as a + or - NaN even though the bit is there. sign(NaN) should therefore return NaN. This implies that floating point hardware may give random results for the NaN sign bit. What one must be careful of, in using things like signbit(), is that one does not generate a dependence on the sign of NaN. (sign(NaN)*abs(NaN)==NaN) must return false, even if the bit patterns match exactly, as any comparison op with either or both operands being NaN will return false.I was thinking there are some cases where a NaN is produced where the sign is still known, (eg +infinity/+infinity) but since NaNs are not comparable it doesn't really make any sense. Does D have a policy on dealing with NaNs? If a function recieves a NaN, it is required to pass on the same NaN, or is it OK to simply return real.nan? (thereby destroying any information stored in the spare NaN bits, which it seems that D is not using). The former would cause issues if a function recieves two nans -- which should be passed on? In this case the non-signed-ness of NaN doesn't make any difference to the code, just to the comments and the unit tests. I'll do a version for complex numbers and resubmit, together with abs.The standard leaves so many bit patterns for NaN that theoretically we could do serious math without ever resorting to other that NaN numbers. ;-) However, looking at this from the other side, this just means that no bits in the entire NaN are significant, except for those that explicitly denote NaN. NaN exists for the sole purpose of propagating "the improperness" of a calculation result up the chain to where it can be intelligently handled, somewhat similar to exceptions in D, Java, and other languages. Therefore, the *Politically Correct* way to handle a NaN (as one or more of the arguments to the function) is to return the relevant compiler constant for NaN. In so doing the library writer explicitly acknowledges that we are propagating *nothing more* than the knowledge that this time we could not produce a numeric result -- thus invalidating also all dependent numeric calculations. Since the standard does not specify anything about the other bits, it is reasonable to assume that different brands of math processors (and most probably even different versions from the same manufacturer) return different kinds of garbage in a NaN. Similarly, passing one or more NaN values to the math processor, and of course getting a NaN as a result, may preserve the original bit pattern(s), or then again it may not. (The fancy word for this is Undefined.)If a function recieves a NaN, it is required to pass on the same NaN?Let me rephrase: "If a function receives something that is not a number" ... "it is required to report this misconduct." And only that. ----- One might of course argue that it is costlier to fetch and return a constant NaN when we already have the offending one ready and at hand. IMHO that is not relevant because that only makes a difference in a tight loop (or whatever piece of code that gets run monstrous times in a short while). I reality, if that is the case, then the programmer ought to rethink his program logic anyway.

Sep 15 2005

"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dgbkav$ruj$1 digitaldaemon.com...Does D have a policy on dealing with NaNs?Yes. It follows the IEEE 754 spec and the general convention on them.If a function recieves a NaN, it is required to pass on the same NaN, or is it OK to simply return real.nan? (thereby destroying any information stored in the spare NaN bits, which it seems that D is not using).The function should do its best to propagate the original NaN.The former would cause issues if a function recieves two nans -- which should be passed on?Either.In this case the non-signed-ness of NaN doesn't make any difference to the code, just to the comments and the unit tests. I'll do a version for complex numbers and resubmit, together with abs. --------------------------- /** The mathematical sign (positive, negative, or zero) Defined such that signum(x)*abs(x) == x Returns: 1 if x is positive, -1 if x is negative, 0 if x is zero. Preserves sign of +-0. Returns NaN if x is a NaN. */ real signum(real x) { return x<>0 ? copysign(1, x) : x; } unittest { assert( signum(-2.5) == -1 ); assert( isNegZero(signum(-0.0)) ); assert( isPosZero(signum(0.0)) ); assert( signum(real.infinity)==1 ); assert( isnan(signum(real.nan)) ); }I don't understand why this function is necessary.

Sep 15 2005

Walter Bright wrote:"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in messageGreat. That clarification is very helpful.If a function recieves a NaN, it is required to pass on the same NaN, or is it OK to simply return real.nan? (thereby destroying any information stored in the spare NaN bits, which it seems that D is not using).The function should do its best to propagate the original NaN.The former would cause issues if a function recieves two nans -- which should be passed on?Either.Nor do I, really. copysign() achieves the same thing in every case I've been able to think of. There seemed to be a lot of objection to removing it from std.math2, though. I figured that if it was included, it should be implemented correctly. If you've unmoved by the clamour, just throw it away. It seems as though the only remaining significant _mathematical_ function in std.math2 is trunc() -- or is it already covered by floor() and ceil() ? The other copyright question surrounds hypot(). In the cephes documentation, this is the only license info I've found: " Some software in this archive may be from the book _Methods and Programs for Mathematical Functions_ (Prentice-Hall or Simon & Schuster International, 1989) or from the Cephes Mathematical Library, a commercial product. In either event, it is copyrighted by the author. What you see here may be used freely but it comes with no support or guarantee. " -- Cephes readme. Does this mean a BSD-style license? If so, then Cephes could also be used as a reference for some of the trickier math and statistic functions. (Starting with lgamma and tgamma, which are declared in std.c.math, but which cause linker errors if actually used :-) ). If not, then hypot() might be a problem. Opinion?real signum(real x)I don't understand why this function is necessary.

Sep 15 2005

"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dgdq0d$30tl$1 digitaldaemon.com...Nor do I, really. copysign() achieves the same thing in every case I've been able to think of. There seemed to be a lot of objection to removing it from std.math2, though. I figured that if it was included, it should be implemented correctly. If you've unmoved by the clamour, just throw it away.copysign() is a standard function and needs to be there. It just doesn't need to be in std.math2.It seems as though the only remaining significant _mathematical_ function in std.math2 is trunc() -- or is it already covered by floor() and ceil() ?trunc() is in the DMC standard library. I just need to trannsfer it.The other copyright question surrounds hypot(). In the cephes documentation, this is the only license info I've found: " Some software in this archive may be from the book _Methods and Programs for Mathematical Functions_ (Prentice-Hall or Simon & Schuster International, 1989) or from the Cephes Mathematical Library, a commercial product. In either event, it is copyrighted by the author. What you see here may be used freely but it comes with no support or guarantee. " -- Cephes readme. Does this mean a BSD-style license? If so, then Cephes could also be used as a reference for some of the trickier math and statistic functions. (Starting with lgamma and tgamma, which are declared in std.c.math, but which cause linker errors if actually used :-) ). If not, then hypot() might be a problem. Opinion?I think the Cephes libraries are the best out there. A couple years ago, I emailed Steve Moshier, the author, about the license with the same question, and here was his response: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for writing. I have not put any restrictions on the use of material posted to the net. Bell Labs has suggested this for the files in netlib/cephes: http://www.netlib.org/research/boilerplate --------------------------------------------------------------------- Since then, I have filled in many gaps in the DMC runtime library with Steve's Cephes code. The Cephes code seems based on the old Cody&Waite algorithms, which are based on the earlier Hart&Cheney book. Cephes does have functions missing from DMC like asinh, and the only reason I hadn't incorporated them yet is because it's a fair amount of work to adapt them, and I'm lazy. The thicket of #ifdef's need to be removed, the symbols need to be converted to DMC symbols, the tables need to be converted from hex kludges to the modern hex float format, the poly calculation needs to be rewritten to use DMC's poly function, and the special cases need to be rewritten to use the x87's features.

Sep 16 2005

There's an interesting article on slashdot today about a new method for solving trig. problems without using sin/cos/tan. A link to info on the book is here: http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au.nyud.net:8090/~norman/book.htm I'll be curious to see the difference in speed and complexity of this new method compared to the classic approach. I don't suppose anyone has heard of this guy before? Sean

Sep 17 2005

In article <dghg6n$h8d$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sean Kelly says...There's an interesting article on slashdot today about a new method for solving trig. problems without using sin/cos/tan. A link to info on the book is here: http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au.nyud.net:8090/~norman/book.htm I'll be curious to see the difference in speed and complexity of this new method compared to the classic approach. I don't suppose anyone has heard of this guy before?Upon further reading, while the author talks up his ideas quite a lot, I don't see much that's actually revolutionary. It may turn out that the best aspect of this approach is its use as a teaching aid. Sean

Sep 17 2005

Sean I do not agree. I have tried to write down some projections in his system and you can do them without any calculations at all just by coping the data around. Knud On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:39:11 +0000, Sean Kelly wrote:In article <dghg6n$h8d$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sean Kelly says...There's an interesting article on slashdot today about a new method for solving trig. problems without using sin/cos/tan. A link to info on the book is here: http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au.nyud.net:8090/~norman/book.htm I'll be curious to see the difference in speed and complexity of this new method compared to the classic approach. I don't suppose anyone has heard of this guy before?Upon further reading, while the author talks up his ideas quite a lot, I don't see much that's actually revolutionary. It may turn out that the best aspect of this approach is its use as a teaching aid. Sean

Sep 18 2005

In article <pan.2005.09.18.14.26.58.463008 sneakemail.com>, =?iso-8859-1?q?Knud_S=F8rensen?= says...Sean I do not agree. I have tried to write down some projections in his system and you can do them without any calculations at all just by coping the data around.That's what I meant by its use as a teaching aid, though I'll admit that his method of solving trig problems beats the heck out of drawing a million circles. The reason I said it's not revolutionary is simply because his method draws from established trigonometric properties--quadrance, for example. That it avoids floating point math almost entirely, however, is very nice. I need to go back and finish reading the sample chapter--I had to run out after getting through the first few pages. I'd be interested in trying some performance comparisons between his method and traditional trig. I imagine it would extend quite easily to three dimensions? Sean

Sep 18 2005

But I agree with sean, This new method looks easy, as it tries to avoid square roots and trig functions in intermediate steps. So, instead of length they use quadrance and instead of angle thay use spread (which is actually sin of the angle, hence spread is independent of angle being acute or obtuse, remember "all silver tea cups" ?) So it saves time by not requiring to find lengths and angles for intermediate steps. However, this approach is not new at all, engineers use it all the time to solve equations involving trig functions. By working with tan(theta/2) instead of angles, the difference is, here the author proposes sin(theta) as the measure of angle. And quadrance avoids square root, thats all, nothing innovative. As for me, I generally dont determine angles and lenghts in intermediate steps when it is not required. instead directly use sin_theta or len_squared directly where possible. I also doubt if it can be good teaching aid. I really think angle is more easy to understand than spread, and length is more natural to think than quadrance, even for a math bigginer. This new method is nothing but a interesting outcome of re-defining basic objects in geometry. Something like re-defining fundamental units as [force, volume, velocity] instead of [mass, length, time] Sai In article <dgk3ec$2p03$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sean Kelly says...In article <pan.2005.09.18.14.26.58.463008 sneakemail.com>, =?iso-8859-1?q?Knud_S=F8rensen?= says...Sean I do not agree. I have tried to write down some projections in his system and you can do them without any calculations at all just by coping the data around.

Sep 18 2005

Walter Bright wrote:"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dgdq0d$30tl$1 digitaldaemon.com...I meant sign() could be removed from std.math2, not copysign(). I've found copysign() to be very useful. In general c = sign(a)*func(b) can always be replaced with: c = copysign(a, func(b)); which is also more efficient than a multiply. copysign() is already in std.math.Nor do I, really. copysign() achieves the same thing in every case I've been able to think of. There seemed to be a lot of objection to removing it from std.math2, though. I figured that if it was included, it should be implemented correctly. If you've unmoved by the clamour, just throw it away.copysign() is a standard function and needs to be there. It just doesn't need to be in std.math2.trunc() is in the DMC standard library. I just need to trannsfer it.real trunc(real x) { return std.c.math.truncl(x); } seems to work. Is it that simple?I think the Cephes libraries are the best out there. A couple years ago, I emailed Steve Moshier, the author, about the license with the same question, and here was his response: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for writing. I have not put any restrictions on the use of material posted to the net. Bell Labs has suggested this for the files in netlib/cephes: http://www.netlib.org/research/boilerplate ---------------------------------------------------------------------Excellent!Since then, I have filled in many gaps in the DMC runtime library with Steve's Cephes code. The Cephes code seems based on the old Cody&Waite algorithms, which are based on the earlier Hart&Cheney book. Cephes does have functions missing from DMC like asinh, and the only reason I hadn't incorporated them yet is because it's a fair amount of work to adapt them, and I'm lazy.And you've got more important things to do :-). That stuff can be done by people like me, who can't contribute to the compiler. As I get the time, I hope to port some of those functions from Cephes to DMD. I imagine it is be quite easy to port DMD functions to DMC. The thicket of #ifdef's need to be removed, thesymbols need to be converted to DMC symbols, the tables need to be converted from hex kludges to the modern hex float format, the poly calculation needs to be rewritten to use DMC's poly function, and the special cases need to be rewritten to use the x87's features.poly[] is the other function from std.math2 which needs to be redone in std.math. Presumably the order should be a[2]*x^2 + a[1]*x + a[0] rather than the Cephes format a[0] * x^2 + a[1]*x + a[2] And there should also be a version with a signature like: real poly(real x, real [] coeffs...) The min(), max() and avg() functions in std.math2 should be redone as templates anyway, so I don't think there's any need to retain std.math2 now. Move to etc?

Sep 19 2005

"Don Clugston" <dac nospam.com.au> wrote in message news:dglr4j$158q$1 digitaldaemon.com...Walter Bright wrote:Yes. The only issue is for C libraries that don't have a truncl().trunc() is in the DMC standard library. I just need to trannsfer it.real trunc(real x) { return std.c.math.truncl(x); } seems to work. Is it that simple?poly[] is the other function from std.math2 which needs to be redone in std.math. Presumably the order should be a[2]*x^2 + a[1]*x + a[0] rather than the Cephes format a[0] * x^2 + a[1]*x + a[2]That's right. There's already one in the DMC library that is hand-built 8087 code.And there should also be a version with a signature like: real poly(real x, real [] coeffs...)Yes.The min(), max() and avg() functions in std.math2 should be redone as templates anyway, so I don't think there's any need to retain std.math2 now. Move to etc?Yes, or just abandon it entirely.

Sep 19 2005

On second thoughts, cis should be renamed to exp(ireal). Start to take advantage of the inbuilt support for imaginary numbers! BTW, I was delighted to find that the .im and .re properties are supported for real and ireal, despite it not being mentioned anywhere in the docs. Corollary to The First Rule of D: It's always better than you think. -------------------- // exp(i theta) = cos(theta) + sin(theta)i. version (X86) { // On x86, this is almost as fast as sin(x). creal exp(ireal x) { asm { fld x; fsincos; fxch st(1), st(0); } } } else { creal exp(ireal x) { return cos(x.im) + sin(x.im)*1i; } } unittest { assert(exp(0i)==1+0i); assert(exp(1.3e5i)==cos(1.3e5)+sin(1.3e5)*1i); creal c = exp(ireal.nan); assert(isnan(c.re) && isnan(c.im)); c = exp(ireal.infinity); assert(isnan(c.re) && isnan(c.im)); }

Sep 16 2005