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digitalmars.D - How is D doing?

reply IkeaTheSofa <ikea_the_sofa hotmail.com> writes:
I am new to programming in general and just started learning C++. I was 
looking for a free to use compiler and found digital mars and D. I was 
really excited to hear about D and wanted to learn it instead because I 
already know some Java and D seems similar in a lot of ways but is more 
feature like C++. I have been looking through website after website on D 
and most of them have the last update in 2002 or the website is down. There 
seems to have been a bunch of IDE's started for D but none have really came 
into useability. Is D a viable langauge? What is happening with the D 
community? Anyone who has experience with D and developing in it, I would 
appreciate some advice.. Thank you in advance.

IkeaTheSofa
Feb 21 2005
next sibling parent reply Sebastian Beschke <s.beschke gmx.de> writes:
Hi,

IkeaTheSofa schrieb:
 I am new to programming in general and just started learning C++. I was 
 looking for a free to use compiler and found digital mars and D. I was 
 really excited to hear about D and wanted to learn it instead because I 
 already know some Java and D seems similar in a lot of ways but is more 
 feature like C++. I have been looking through website after website on D 
 and most of them have the last update in 2002 or the website is down. There 
 seems to have been a bunch of IDE's started for D but none have really came 
 into useability. Is D a viable langauge? What is happening with the D 
 community? Anyone who has experience with D and developing in it, I would 
 appreciate some advice.. Thank you in advance.

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner. As you correctly noticed, there is no complete IDE that is anywhere past its beta-phase. Basically, when you're doing anything in D, you're a beta tester - for the compiler, the libraries, the development tools. You may want to gather some more experience until you feel confident in a "D-like" language like Java, C++, C#... and then come back to D. This will also help you appreciate D's benefits ;) That said, most of the people here *are* using D productively. And if you ask a question here, you're likely to get an answer. (Side note: perhaps one could start a D.beginners newsgroup or something?) So if you feel like spending a lot of time with D the hard way, sorting out compiler bugs along with the bugs in your own code, you might still be in for a lot of education and adventure. :) But this will require quite some dedication. That's my opinion, anyways. :) -Sebastian
Feb 21 2005
parent reply jicman <jicman_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cvctjq$30id$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sebastian Beschke says...

[clip]

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.

does not have the popularity. I started to do a project on java and I found it completely annoying. While looking around for c/c++ compilers, found digital mars and saw d. Downloaded it and now, I am writing this project on d. It's wonderful. :-)
You may want to gather some more experience until you feel confident in
a "D-like" language like Java, C++, C#... and then come back to D. This
will also help you appreciate D's benefits ;)

That's my opinion, anyways. :)

Feb 21 2005
next sibling parent reply Sebastian Beschke <s.beschke gmx.de> writes:
jicman schrieb:
 In article <cvctjq$30id$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Sebastian Beschke says...
D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.

Not true, my friend. D is easier to learn than java and c, and c++.

Those, with the possible exception of Java, aren't beginner languages either. I didn't say D wasn't easier than those languages. But D is generally more buggy, and there are languages (like Python, Ruby, Basic...) which are a lot easier to learn. The OP said he was new to programming. I also said, that with a bit of dedication, D could be used to learn programming. But it definitely isn't the easiest way. -Sebastian
Feb 21 2005
parent reply MicroWizard <MicroWizard_member pathlink.com> writes:
I also said, that with a bit of dedication, D could be used to learn
programming. But it definitely isn't the easiest way.

-Sebastian

Is there any easy way to learn programming??? Just do it. If one want to learn it, one will find using command line compiler easy. If one really need a GUI to write code one do not want to learn programming but playing. ;-) I have been using C/C++ for years. Then I stated to learn D (DMD version 0.16) It was only able to print "Hello world". That was fine. Later I tried to make some array handling utility. DMD just introduced arrays. Later I tried to use sockets. Phobos which come with DMD supports them since version 80-90. Now it has templates, mixins, etc. D evolves like a programmers teach yourself book goes step-by-step. Tamas Nagy
Feb 21 2005
parent reply IkeaTheSofa <ikea_the_sofa hotmail.com> writes:
MicroWizard <MicroWizard_member pathlink.com> wrote in
news:cvdppa$11ti$1 digitaldaemon.com: 

I also said, that with a bit of dedication, D could be used to learn
programming. But it definitely isn't the easiest way.

-Sebastian

Is there any easy way to learn programming??? Just do it. If one want to learn it, one will find using command line compiler easy. If one really need a GUI to write code one do not want to learn programming but playing. ;-) I have been using C/C++ for years. Then I stated to learn D (DMD version 0.16) It was only able to print "Hello world". That was fine. Later I tried to make some array handling utility. DMD just introduced arrays. Later I tried to use sockets. Phobos which come with DMD supports them since version 80-90. Now it has templates, mixins, etc. D evolves like a programmers teach yourself book goes step-by-step. Tamas Nagy

I have to say that I appreciate the posts. I don't quite understand how command line compiling works.(i'm on win XP) I have downloded dmc dmd, cygwin and MinGW. I have been trying to figure out how to work. Since I only have exerince developing PHP and Java both of which use IDE's I feel totally lost here. I tried to compile an example programm from D spec webpage and this is what I get: Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600] (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp. C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd Digital Mars D Compiler v0.113 Copyright (c) 1999-2005 by Digital Mars written by Walter Bright Documentation: www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html Usage: dmd files.d ... { -switch } files.d D source files -c do not link -d allow deprecated features -g add symbolic debug info -gt add trace profiling hooks -v verbose -O optimize -odobjdir write object files to directory objdir -offilename name output file to filename -op do not strip paths from source file -Ipath where to look for imports -Llinkerflag pass linkerflag to link -debug compile in debug code -debug=level compile in debug code <= level -debug=ident compile in debug code identified by ident -inline do function inlining -release compile release version -unittest compile in unit tests -version=level compile in version code >= level -version=ident compile in version code identified by ident C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd c:\dev\d\dtest.d C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe dtest,,,user32+kernel32/noi; Can't run 'C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe', check PATH C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin> ... Can anyone decipher this? Any suggestions for a begginer(in general)? I also can not get the ecliseD plugin to work, but thats a different issue. Thank you again.
Feb 21 2005
next sibling parent reply pragma <pragma_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <Xns9604D616744DAikeathesofaAThotmail 63.105.9.61>, IkeaTheSofa
says...
C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd c:\dev\d\dtest.d
C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe dtest,,,user32+kernel32/noi;
Can't run 'C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe', check PATH

C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>

... Can anyone decipher this? Any suggestions for a begginer(in general)?  
I also can not get the ecliseD plugin to work, but thats a different 
issue.

Don't feel embarassed by this, but the D compiler isn't the entire distribution. Technically, it relies on the DMC backend to get the linking and .exe building accomplished. http://www.digitalmars.com/d/dcompiler.html Just download the "linker and utilities" from the page and install them on your system. The trick is to unzip them into a folder that sits *next to* your dmd folder. (using your file layout garnered from above) c:\D\dmd\dmd\ <--- your current dmd installation c:\D\dmd\dm\ <--- where the linker and utilities should go This way the path "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe" will actually run "link.exe" to compose an exe. You mentioned that line-command compilation was a new thing to you. Granted, it's easy to think of working outside of an IDE a bit "old fashioned" but its really a power-user's interface (well from a unix/linux perspective anyway) and anything but out-moded. As has been mentioned, D is anything but a beginners tool at this point, so anything you master now with D will place you on the inside track for later (IMO). Enjoy! - EricAnderton at yahoo
Feb 21 2005
parent IkeaTheSofa <ikea_the_sofa hotmail.com> writes:
pragma <pragma_member pathlink.com> wrote in
news:cveftv$1r2n$1 digitaldaemon.com: 

 In article <Xns9604D616744DAikeathesofaAThotmail 63.105.9.61>,
 IkeaTheSofa says...
C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd c:\dev\d\dtest.d
C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe dtest,,,user32+kernel32/noi;
Can't run 'C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe', check PATH

C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>

... Can anyone decipher this? Any suggestions for a begginer(in
general)?  I also can not get the ecliseD plugin to work, but thats a
different issue.

Don't feel embarassed by this, but the D compiler isn't the entire distribution. Technically, it relies on the DMC backend to get the linking and .exe building accomplished. http://www.digitalmars.com/d/dcompiler.html Just download the "linker and utilities" from the page and install them on your system. The trick is to unzip them into a folder that sits *next to* your dmd folder. (using your file layout garnered from above) c:\D\dmd\dmd\ <--- your current dmd installation c:\D\dmd\dm\ <--- where the linker and utilities should go This way the path "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe" will actually run "link.exe" to compose an exe. You mentioned that line-command compilation was a new thing to you. Granted, it's easy to think of working outside of an IDE a bit "old fashioned" but its really a power-user's interface (well from a unix/linux perspective anyway) and anything but out-moded. As has been mentioned, D is anything but a beginners tool at this point, so anything you master now with D will place you on the inside track for later (IMO). Enjoy! - EricAnderton at yahoo

Eric thanks so much for your help! Yeehaw! I finally got the compiler to compile the hello.d program after getting the files you talked about in the right place. I think this is the start of a beautiful thing (me and D). Thank you again.
Feb 21 2005
prev sibling parent reply Chris Sauls <ibisbasenji gmail.com> writes:
Its not bad at all once you get used to it.  You might want to check:
http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?D__Tutorial

And... you have an IDE for PHP??  Interesting... I always just used 
EditPlus.  (Though I might be switching to ConTEXT now.)  I'm wondering 
what an IDE for PHP would provide?

-- Chris S

IkeaTheSofa wrote:
 I have to say that I appreciate the posts. I don't quite understand how 
 command line compiling works.(i'm on win XP) I have downloded dmc dmd, 
 cygwin and MinGW. I have been trying to figure out how to work. Since I 
 only have exerince developing PHP and Java both of which use IDE's I feel  
 totally lost here.
 
 I tried to compile an example programm from D spec webpage and this is 
 what I get:
 
 Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
 (C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
 
 
 C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd
 Digital Mars D Compiler v0.113
 Copyright (c) 1999-2005 by Digital Mars written by Walter Bright
 Documentation: www.digitalmars.com/d/index.html
 Usage:
   dmd files.d ... { -switch }
 
   files.d        D source files
   -c             do not link
   -d             allow deprecated features
   -g             add symbolic debug info
   -gt            add trace profiling hooks
   -v             verbose
   -O             optimize
   -odobjdir      write object files to directory objdir
   -offilename    name output file to filename
   -op            do not strip paths from source file
   -Ipath         where to look for imports
   -Llinkerflag   pass linkerflag to link
   -debug         compile in debug code
   -debug=level   compile in debug code <= level
   -debug=ident   compile in debug code identified by ident
   -inline        do function inlining
   -release       compile release version
   -unittest      compile in unit tests
   -version=level compile in version code >= level
   -version=ident compile in version code identified by ident
 
 C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>dmd c:\dev\d\dtest.d
 C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe dtest,,,user32+kernel32/noi;
 Can't run 'C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin\..\..\dm\bin\link.exe', check PATH
 
 C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin>
 
 .... Can anyone decipher this? Any suggestions for a begginer(in general)?  
 I also can not get the ecliseD plugin to work, but thats a different 
 issue.
 
 Thank you again.

Feb 21 2005
parent reply IkeaTheSofa <ikea_the_sofa hotmail.com> writes:
Chris Sauls <ibisbasenji gmail.com> wrote in
news:cvefuh$1qqn$1 digitaldaemon.com: 

 Its not bad at all once you get used to it.  You might want to check:
 http://www.wikiservice.at/d/wiki.cgi?D__Tutorial
 
 And... you have an IDE for PHP??  Interesting... I always just used 
 EditPlus.  (Though I might be switching to ConTEXT now.)  I'm
 wondering what an IDE for PHP would provide?
 
 -- Chris S

Thanks for your response Chris. I use PHP Designer 2005. I have apache and php installed as well as mysql. Php designer has the standard syntex highlighting. Also in php designer you can specify your php.exe and use it run and debugg your code (when i say debug it just tells you what line in your code is wrong and possibly why) and it outputs what you file would look like on a webserver in a window in the app.
Feb 21 2005
parent Chris Sauls <ibisbasenji gmail.com> writes:
Quite welcome.  And that PHP Designer app does sound interesting.  That 
ability to call php.exe could actually be useful for some of those days 
where I'm coding in my bedroom with the real server sitting halfway 
across town.  :)

-- Chris S

IkeaTheSofa wrote:
 Thanks for your response Chris. I use PHP Designer 2005. I have apache and 
 php installed as well as mysql. Php designer has the standard syntex 
 highlighting. Also in php designer you can specify your php.exe and use it 
 run and debugg your code (when i say debug it just tells you what line in 
 your code is wrong and possibly why) and it outputs what you file would 
 look like on a webserver in a window in the app.
 

Feb 21 2005
prev sibling parent reply "Jarrett Billingsley" <kb3ctd2 yahoo.com> writes:
D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)
Feb 21 2005
parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-) -- Derek Melbourne, Australia 22/02/2005 3:25:33 PM
Feb 21 2005
next sibling parent reply Kris <Kris_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers! Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...
Feb 21 2005
next sibling parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:03:39 +0000 (UTC), Kris wrote:

 In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers! Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...

LOL, I was waiting for somebody to say that...you guys are so predicable, but funny too. Monty Python never grows old. ;-) -- Derek Melbourne, Australia 22/02/2005 4:13:23 PM
Feb 21 2005
parent pragma <pragma_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <1rhc9p9g5pw2x$.x1drpsydetk4.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:03:39 +0000 (UTC), Kris wrote:

 In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell says...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers! Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...

LOL, I was waiting for somebody to say that...you guys are so predicable, but funny too. Monty Python never grows old. ;-)

Stop that. You're being entirely too silly. .. and now for something completely different. - EricAnderton at yahoo
Feb 21 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent reply IkeaTheSofa <ikea_the_sofa hotmail.com> writes:
Kris <Kris_member pathlink.com> wrote in
news:cveefb$1ots$1 digitaldaemon.com: 

 In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell
 says... 
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers! Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...

I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts
Feb 21 2005
next sibling parent clayasaurus <clayasaurus gmail.com> writes:
IkeaTheSofa wrote:
 Kris <Kris_member pathlink.com> wrote in
 news:cveefb$1ots$1 digitaldaemon.com: 
 
 
In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell
says... 

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:


D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.

Not true, my friend.

Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers! Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...

I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts

The command line is not that hard. It was explained to me in another thread how to get it working up in windows. I think you go to start->control panel->advanced setting->enironmental variable->PATH and add C:\dmd and C:\dm to your windows PATH, so that when you type dmd in the command prompt you get the version etc. If you don't want to learn makefiles than there are alternatives around such as D make and D build, in which you can type 'dmake main.d' and it finds all your files for you and builds them into an exe. There is a small learning curve with the command line, just put a link to the command prompt on the desktop and use commands cd - change directory dir - list directory contents to move around example: cd C:\myProject\ dmd main.d main hello world. Once you have the command line figured out you should be set. If you have any questions on how to set up just ask here, because i realize i'm not super specific. and google/news group search is your friend :-)
Feb 21 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:18:49 +0000 (UTC), IkeaTheSofa wrote:

 Kris <Kris_member pathlink.com> wrote in
 news:cveefb$1ots$1 digitaldaemon.com: 
 
 In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell
 says... 
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers! Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...

I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts

Okay, I'll have a go. BTW, I use Crimson too. Sometimes Code-Genie, and sometimes EmEditor, depending on the task at hand. No one editor ever seems good enough to do everything I want. Do you understand the Windows (DOS) PATH concept? If not, it is one of a few 'environment variables' that you can define for your system. The PATH variable contains a list of folders where Windows will look in to find a program that you need to run. On Windows XP... 1) Right-click on the "My Computer" icon and select "Properties" from the popup menu. 2) Select the "Advanced" tab 3) Click on the "Environment Variables" button near the bottom of the window. This will show you two lists of variables - user ones and system ones. 4a) If you can see a "PATH" variable in the user list, click on that then press the "Edit" button. 4b) If you cannot see a "PATH" variable in the user list, click on the "New" button. 5) You will see an editbox for Variable name. Make sure this is "PATH". 6) You will see an editbox for the Variable's value. If this already has stuff in it, look thru it to see if it mention's where you installed DMD to. I believe in your case it is "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin". 7) If it has both "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" and "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" there you are okay and can close these windows now. Otherwise move the cursor to the end of the current list of folders (in the value box), and add this ... ";C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin;C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" **NOTICE** the semicolon at the beginning of this new entry and the one in between the two paths. 8) Now press the various "Ok" buttons to save your results. To test this, start up a new command window. (Press the green "start" button and select "Run...", enter in "cmd" and press "Ok".) When the prompt comes up, change folders to "C:\" (type in "cd c:\") Now type in "dmd". List show display the dmd usage info. Now type in "link". This should display the OptLink copyright info. To compile your program, go to the folder your source code is in. For example, if you saved it in "C:\My Projects\D\" you would type in "cd c:\my projects\d" If you called your program "dtest.d" (you must end it in ".d" btw), type in "dmd dtest" This will compile and link your test program. To run your program, type in "dtest" There, that'll do for now. -- Derek Melbourne, Australia 22/02/2005 4:26:09 PM
Feb 21 2005
next sibling parent IkeaTheSofa <ikea_the_sofa hotmail.com> writes:
Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> wrote in
news:t9y12220a7kb.1g2gp8m600idb$.dlg 40tude.net: 

 On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:18:49 +0000 (UTC), IkeaTheSofa wrote:
 
 Kris <Kris_member pathlink.com> wrote in
 news:cveefb$1ots$1 digitaldaemon.com: 
 
 In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell
 says... 
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers! Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...

I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts

Okay, I'll have a go. BTW, I use Crimson too. Sometimes Code-Genie, and sometimes EmEditor, depending on the task at hand. No one editor ever seems good enough to do everything I want. Do you understand the Windows (DOS) PATH concept? If not, it is one of a few 'environment variables' that you can define for your system. The PATH variable contains a list of folders where Windows will look in to find a program that you need to run. On Windows XP... 1) Right-click on the "My Computer" icon and select "Properties" from the popup menu. 2) Select the "Advanced" tab 3) Click on the "Environment Variables" button near the bottom of the window. This will show you two lists of variables - user ones and system ones. 4a) If you can see a "PATH" variable in the user list, click on that then press the "Edit" button. 4b) If you cannot see a "PATH" variable in the user list, click on the "New" button. 5) You will see an editbox for Variable name. Make sure this is "PATH". 6) You will see an editbox for the Variable's value. If this already has stuff in it, look thru it to see if it mention's where you installed DMD to. I believe in your case it is "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin". 7) If it has both "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" and "C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" there you are okay and can close these windows now. Otherwise move the cursor to the end of the current list of folders (in the value box), and add this ... ";C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin;C:\D\dmd\dmd\bin" **NOTICE** the semicolon at the beginning of this new entry and the one in between the two paths. 8) Now press the various "Ok" buttons to save your results. To test this, start up a new command window. (Press the green "start" button and select "Run...", enter in "cmd" and press "Ok".) When the prompt comes up, change folders to "C:\" (type in "cd c:\") Now type in "dmd". List show display the dmd usage info. Now type in "link". This should display the OptLink copyright info. To compile your program, go to the folder your source code is in. For example, if you saved it in "C:\My Projects\D\" you would type in "cd c:\my projects\d" If you called your program "dtest.d" (you must end it in ".d" btw), type in "dmd dtest" This will compile and link your test program. To run your program, type in "dtest" There, that'll do for now.

Thanks for all your help derek. I do know about the path variables and tried to specify them when I first tried dmd. It turns out that I had not extracted the files correctly and didn't have the dmc files in the dm/bin/ folder. Although I still can't call dmd withouth being in the directory where dmd is. I'm going to restart and see if that helps. I have got it to compile and am really happy to be starting with D. Thanks Again!
Feb 21 2005
prev sibling parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
Not bad. Can I edit this into a "Tech Tip" and put it on the web site?
Feb 24 2005
parent reply Derek Parnell <derek psych.ward> writes:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:10:55 -0800, Walter wrote:

 Not bad. Can I edit this into a "Tech Tip" and put it on the web site?

Go ahead...knock yourself out! -- Derek Melbourne, Australia 25/02/2005 2:24:30 PM
Feb 24 2005
parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Derek Parnell" <derek psych.ward> wrote in message
news:1pe9yxf1cvt4m.wfqpb14ru1x9$.dlg 40tude.net...
 On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:10:55 -0800, Walter wrote:

 Not bad. Can I edit this into a "Tech Tip" and put it on the web site?

Go ahead...knock yourself out!

Done! www.digitalmars.com/techtips/command_prompt.html
Feb 24 2005
next sibling parent reply "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
You could add a mention in for the NVX tool 
(http://synesis.com.au/systools.html), which can be used to split them 
for easy reading/comprehension.

For instance, "nvx -p" gives, on this machine:

C:\bin
F:\WINXP\system32
F:\WINXP
F:\WINXP\system32\WBEM
p:\programs\ruby\bin
C:\bin\batch
C:\bin\scripts
C:\bin\internal
C:\bin
P:\Programs\Ruby
P:\Programs\ActiveState\Perl\bin
P:\Programs\ActiveState\Python22
F:\Program Files\WinZip
P:\Program Files\doxygen\bin
P:\Program Files\NDoc\1.2\bin\.net-1.1
P:\sdks\swig\SWIG-1.3.21
P:\SDKs\Microsoft SDK\Bin
P:\SDKs\Microsoft SDK\Bin\WinNT


"Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:cvmhd0$2vnt$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Derek Parnell" <derek psych.ward> wrote in message
 news:1pe9yxf1cvt4m.wfqpb14ru1x9$.dlg 40tude.net...
 On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 19:10:55 -0800, Walter wrote:

 Not bad. Can I edit this into a "Tech Tip" and put it on the web 
 site?

Go ahead...knock yourself out!

Done! www.digitalmars.com/techtips/command_prompt.html

Feb 24 2005
parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote in message
news:cvmhpe$3028$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 You could add a mention in for the NVX tool
 (http://synesis.com.au/systools.html), which can be used to split them
 for easy reading/comprehension.

 For instance, "nvx -p" gives, on this machine:

True, it's a nice tool. But the page is for people who have little or no idea how to use the command prompt. This issue comes up repeatedly, many don't even know what a command prompt is. Adding more things they need to download, install, and figure out how to use from the command prompt may not help. The page certainly is no tutorial on mastering the command prompt, hopefully it will just get them past the "what's a cubit?" stage. (And thanks to Bill Cosby for coining my favorite phrase meaning "I have no idea what you said" !) P.S. I've never found any IDE that is as productive as the command prompt. Or maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon. Wanna know why GUI apps tend to stink? I have an APS film cartridge scanner to scan in hundreds of film cartridges. It has a beautiful GUI interface to it. I have to laboriously and tediously babysit the thing for each and every picture it scans, pointing and clicking and typing and pointing and clicking and waiting (as scanning is s-l-o-w). If it was a command prompt program, I'd have written a .bat file to drive it - two keystrokes per cartridge, and I'm off to do other work while I wait 45 minutes for it to finish. There is no mouse-ahead, click-ahead, type-ahead, command history, or automation of GUI apps. There is no touch-typing of a mouse. GUI apps are great for the first time you do something. They are lousy for doing the same thing 100 times. They make you want to scream in frustration. Ah, maybe it was just a stupid GUI design. Well, that it is. But I have another scanner too (for negatives), an HP Photo Smart scanner. Totally different GUI. Totally unautomatable. Point, click, drag, type, wait, point, click, type, wait, zzzzz. Let's try another one. My scanner. I tried to scan in an entire book once. Yet another completely different GUI. Point, click, drag, point, click, type, wait, point, drag, click, type, wait, zzzzz. By the time you get to page 50, you're in agony. Maybe it's just because those are optical products. So let's try my Cool Edit wave editor (editting sound waves). Beautiful GUI interface. Same problem. Nero cd burner. Same again. Microsoft Media Player. Same. Maybe I just don't get it. Back when the original Mac came out, an evangelist came by to sell us on how great icons were. He showed us a picture of a box of kleenex and and asked us what it was. A box of kleenex. No, no, he said, it was a printer and meant "print". I asked him what was wrong with the letters 'p-r-i-n-t', after all, at least I could look it up in a dictionary or index or grep for it if I didn't understand it. I'm lost with that box of kleenex. He thought I didn't get it. He must have been right, because the world went for icons. But in the end, software developers added little yellow popup boxes with the word "print" in it when your mouse hovered over the box of kleenex. Outlook Express, in which I am composing this, has explanatory words under each icon, which is a good thing because I defy anyone to tell me what those pictures mean. (Oh, the irony, the undo button has the word "Undo" written under it. The yellow popup for it also says "Undo".) But I still can't remember which is on or off, "O" or "|". I suppose it's fair, though, because now everyone is equally confused. I know people swear by their favorite GUI IDEs. I know they believe they are more productive with them, just as I believe I am more productive with the command line tools. Who knows, perhaps we're both right. P.P.S. 20 years later, the icon on O.E. for print still looks like a box of kleenex. It says 'Print' under it, though.
Feb 25 2005
next sibling parent reply David L. Davis <SpottedTiger yahoo.com> writes:
In article <cvmsiv$bel$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...
P.S. I've never found any IDE that is as productive as the command prompt.
Or maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon. Wanna know why GUI apps tend to stink?
I have an APS film cartridge scanner to scan in hundreds of film cartridges.
It has a beautiful GUI interface to it. I have to laboriously and tediously
babysit the thing for each and every picture it scans, pointing and clicking
and typing and pointing and clicking and waiting (as scanning is s-l-o-w).
If it was a command prompt program, I'd have written a .bat file to drive
it - two keystrokes per cartridge, and I'm off to do other work while I wait
45 minutes for it to finish. There is no mouse-ahead, click-ahead,
type-ahead, command history, or automation of GUI apps. There is no
touch-typing of a mouse. GUI apps are great for the first time you do
something. They are lousy for doing the same thing 100 times. They make you
want to scream in frustration.

Ah, maybe it was just a stupid GUI design. Well, that it is. But I have
another scanner too (for negatives), an HP Photo Smart scanner. Totally
different GUI. Totally unautomatable. Point, click, drag, type, wait, point,
click, type, wait, zzzzz.

Let's try another one. My scanner. I tried to scan in an entire book once.
Yet another completely different GUI. Point, click, drag, point, click,
type, wait, point, drag, click, type, wait, zzzzz. By the time you get to
page 50, you're in agony.

Maybe it's just because those are optical products. So let's try my Cool
Edit wave editor (editting sound waves). Beautiful GUI interface. Same
problem. Nero cd burner. Same again. Microsoft Media Player. Same.

Maybe I just don't get it. Back when the original Mac came out, an
evangelist came by to sell us on how great icons were. He showed us a
picture of a box of kleenex and and asked us what it was. A box of kleenex.
No, no, he said, it was a printer and meant "print". I asked him what was
wrong with the letters 'p-r-i-n-t', after all, at least I could look it up
in a dictionary or index or grep for it if I didn't understand it. I'm lost
with that box of kleenex. He thought I didn't get it. He must have been
right, because the world went for icons. But in the end, software developers
added little yellow popup boxes with the word "print" in it when your mouse
hovered over the box of kleenex. Outlook Express, in which I am composing
this, has explanatory words under each icon, which is a good thing because I
defy anyone to tell me what those pictures mean. (Oh, the irony, the undo
button has the word "Undo" written under it. The yellow popup for it also
says "Undo".)

But I still can't remember which is on or off, "O" or "|". I suppose it's
fair, though, because now everyone is equally confused.

I know people swear by their favorite GUI IDEs. I know they believe they are
more productive with them, just as I believe I am more productive with the
command line tools. Who knows, perhaps we're both right.

P.P.S. 20 years later, the icon on O.E. for print still looks like a box of
kleenex. It says 'Print' under it, though.

the future. :)) As much as I agree with you that command-line apps trend to get things done quicker (I used to do almost everything at the command prompt at one time)…they too have a learning curve. Plus these days, any product created for the masses, must be user-friendly: where as a user can pick colors for text and windows, pick fonts, change the main window’s skin, etc, and then of course, the app should be able to do what it was created to do. So since "Time" isn’t going to go backwards, you should embrace your GUI, icons, and IDE…until such time, the command-line makes a big comeback. :)) Also, welcome back from your Loin taming training…just kidding! David L. ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Dare to reach for the Stars...Dare to Dream, Build, and Achieve!"
Feb 25 2005
next sibling parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"David L. Davis" <SpottedTiger yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cvnr8h$19oh$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Also, welcome back from your Loin taming training.just kidding!

I don't think anyone remembers that Monty Python skit!
Feb 25 2005
parent Paul Bonser <misterpib gmail.com> writes:
Walter wrote:
 "David L. Davis" <SpottedTiger yahoo.com> wrote in message
 news:cvnr8h$19oh$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 
Also, welcome back from your Loin taming training.just kidding!

I don't think anyone remembers that Monty Python skit!

I think that you are confusing lions with aardvarks. Translation: I do too remember that skit...and I'm only 21 :P -- -PIB -- "C++ also supports the notion of *friends*: cooperative classes that are permitted to see each other's private parts." - Grady Booch
Feb 25 2005
prev sibling parent reply Paul Bonser <misterpib gmail.com> writes:
<cut>
 “Walter you will be assimilated!!,” because GUI, icons, and IDE are the wave of
 the future. :)) As much as I agree with you that command-line apps trend to get
 things done quicker (I used to do almost everything at the command prompt at
one
 time)…they too have a learning curve. Plus these days, any product created for
 the masses, must be user-friendly: where as a user can pick colors for text and
 windows, pick fonts, change the main window’s skin, etc, and then of course,
the
 app should be able to do what it was created to do. So since "Time" isn’t going
 to go backwards, you should embrace your GUI, icons, and IDE…until such time,
 the command-line makes a big comeback. :)) 
 
 Also, welcome back from your Loin taming training…just kidding!
 
 David L.
 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 "Dare to reach for the Stars...Dare to Dream, Build, and Achieve!"

I don't know about you, but I'm using Linux, and I use the command line every day. So what if it takes me a while to figure out how to write a script to wait for one process to die before starting another (some grepping of the output of ps and some sleeping), it's fun dagnabit! And plus, I doubt there are many GUI tools to do that... Also, I think it's probably none of our business the Loin training Walter's been doing...unless you mean lion training, it's not really appropriate for this list :P -- -PIB -- "C++ also supports the notion of *friends*: cooperative classes that are permitted to see each other's private parts." - Grady Booch
Feb 25 2005
parent David L. Davis <SpottedTiger yahoo.com> writes:
In article <cvo1pn$1gee$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Paul Bonser says...
I don't know about you, but I'm using Linux, and I use the command line 
every day. So what if it takes me a while to figure out how to write a 
script to wait for one process to die before starting another (some 
grepping of the output of ps and some sleeping), it's fun dagnabit! And 
plus, I doubt there are many GUI tools to do that...

Also, I think it's probably none of our business the Loin training 
Walter's been doing...unless you mean lion training, it's not really 
appropriate for this list :P

-- 

-PIB

--
"C++ also supports the notion of *friends*: cooperative classes that
are permitted to see each other's private parts." - Grady Booch

Paul: Darn, I hate it when I transpose letters! Thanks so much for the correction, cause I did mean “Lion.” I’m surprise Walter didn’t nail me for that one. <g> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Dare to reach for the Stars...Dare to Dream, Build, and Achieve!"
Feb 25 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
Erm, you do realise nvx is a command line tool?

Seriously confused

Matthew

"Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:cvmsiv$bel$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote in message
 news:cvmhpe$3028$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 You could add a mention in for the NVX tool
 (http://synesis.com.au/systools.html), which can be used to split 
 them
 for easy reading/comprehension.

 For instance, "nvx -p" gives, on this machine:

True, it's a nice tool. But the page is for people who have little or no idea how to use the command prompt. This issue comes up repeatedly, many don't even know what a command prompt is. Adding more things they need to download, install, and figure out how to use from the command prompt may not help. The page certainly is no tutorial on mastering the command prompt, hopefully it will just get them past the "what's a cubit?" stage. (And thanks to Bill Cosby for coining my favorite phrase meaning "I have no idea what you said" !) P.S. I've never found any IDE that is as productive as the command prompt. Or maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon. Wanna know why GUI apps tend to stink? I have an APS film cartridge scanner to scan in hundreds of film cartridges. It has a beautiful GUI interface to it. I have to laboriously and tediously babysit the thing for each and every picture it scans, pointing and clicking and typing and pointing and clicking and waiting (as scanning is s-l-o-w). If it was a command prompt program, I'd have written a .bat file to drive it - two keystrokes per cartridge, and I'm off to do other work while I wait 45 minutes for it to finish. There is no mouse-ahead, click-ahead, type-ahead, command history, or automation of GUI apps. There is no touch-typing of a mouse. GUI apps are great for the first time you do something. They are lousy for doing the same thing 100 times. They make you want to scream in frustration. Ah, maybe it was just a stupid GUI design. Well, that it is. But I have another scanner too (for negatives), an HP Photo Smart scanner. Totally different GUI. Totally unautomatable. Point, click, drag, type, wait, point, click, type, wait, zzzzz. Let's try another one. My scanner. I tried to scan in an entire book once. Yet another completely different GUI. Point, click, drag, point, click, type, wait, point, drag, click, type, wait, zzzzz. By the time you get to page 50, you're in agony. Maybe it's just because those are optical products. So let's try my Cool Edit wave editor (editting sound waves). Beautiful GUI interface. Same problem. Nero cd burner. Same again. Microsoft Media Player. Same. Maybe I just don't get it. Back when the original Mac came out, an evangelist came by to sell us on how great icons were. He showed us a picture of a box of kleenex and and asked us what it was. A box of kleenex. No, no, he said, it was a printer and meant "print". I asked him what was wrong with the letters 'p-r-i-n-t', after all, at least I could look it up in a dictionary or index or grep for it if I didn't understand it. I'm lost with that box of kleenex. He thought I didn't get it. He must have been right, because the world went for icons. But in the end, software developers added little yellow popup boxes with the word "print" in it when your mouse hovered over the box of kleenex. Outlook Express, in which I am composing this, has explanatory words under each icon, which is a good thing because I defy anyone to tell me what those pictures mean. (Oh, the irony, the undo button has the word "Undo" written under it. The yellow popup for it also says "Undo".) But I still can't remember which is on or off, "O" or "|". I suppose it's fair, though, because now everyone is equally confused. I know people swear by their favorite GUI IDEs. I know they believe they are more productive with them, just as I believe I am more productive with the command line tools. Who knows, perhaps we're both right. P.P.S. 20 years later, the icon on O.E. for print still looks like a box of kleenex. It says 'Print' under it, though.

Feb 25 2005
parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote in message
news:cvnude$1cub$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Erm, you do realise nvx is a command line tool?

Yes.
 Seriously confused

Sorry. I just went off on a tangent. Most of the post has nothing to do with nvx!
Feb 25 2005
parent "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
"Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote in message 
news:cvo18q$1ftr$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> wrote in message
 news:cvnude$1cub$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Erm, you do realise nvx is a command line tool?

Yes.
 Seriously confused

Sorry. I just went off on a tangent. Most of the post has nothing to do with nvx!

Gotcha I liked the Kleenex concept. I'm going to use that somewhere/somehow. :-)
Feb 25 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Ben Hinkle" <bhinkle mathworks.com> writes:
 But I still can't remember which is on or off, "O" or "|". I suppose it's
 fair, though, because now everyone is equally confused.

It's funny you mention that. Yesterday I got a new monitor and so last night I set it up and I had plugged stuff in and I stumbled around and turned everything on and ... nothing happened. The room was pretty dark so I flipped a few switches again and tried again. no dice. So I thought shoot I have to start paying more attention. I opened up the (one page) manual and it said pretty much "the only thing you absolutely need make sure you do is turn on the monitor before you turn on the computer otherwise everything could be hosed". I thought I had done that but who knows so I got a flash light and looked around in the back and found the on/off switch (that I had originally toggled a few times by feel). It had that stupid O and | and I had no idea what was what. I didn't touch it and went and found another switch the the O and | that I knew was off to learn what setting is what. I went back to the monitor, turned it off, unplugged everything. Plugged it all back in and turned it all on in the right order and then finally realized there was an invisible little button on the front that I hadn't seen in the dark that looked like --- / \ | | | \ | / | That I guess means "on/off". So I pressed that and it turned on and everything was working fine. sheesh.
Feb 25 2005
parent Manfred Nowak <svv1999 hotmail.com> writes:
"Ben Hinkle" <bhinkle mathworks.com> wrote:

[...]
 then finally realized there was an invisible little button on
 the front that I hadn't seen in the dark 

"Every time you try to operate on of these weird black controls that are labelled in black on a black background, a little black light lights up black to let you know you've done it." (Douglas Adams, The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe) -manfred
Feb 27 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Marco <Marco_member pathlink.com> writes:
I know people swear by their favorite GUI IDEs. I know they believe they are
more productive with them, just as I believe I am more productive with the
command line tools. Who knows, perhaps we're both right.

Most tools need both a command-line for power users and a GUI for quick and dirty stuff. I try to use both.
Feb 26 2005
parent Paul Bonser <misterpib gmail.com> writes:
Marco wrote:
I know people swear by their favorite GUI IDEs. I know they believe they are
more productive with them, just as I believe I am more productive with the
command line tools. Who knows, perhaps we're both right.

Most tools need both a command-line for power users and a GUI for quick and dirty stuff. I try to use both.

Exactly why I think all GUIs should have a console built in :) -- -PIB -- "C++ also supports the notion of *friends*: cooperative classes that are permitted to see each other's private parts." - Grady Booch
Feb 27 2005
prev sibling parent reply Roberto Mariottini <Roberto_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cvmsiv$bel$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

But I still can't remember which is on or off, "O" or "|". I suppose it's
fair, though, because now everyone is equally confused.

So you agree it should be "false " and "true"? :-) Ciao
Feb 28 2005
next sibling parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_F_Bj=F6rklund?= <afb algonet.se> writes:
Roberto Mariottini wrote:

But I still can't remember which is on or off, "O" or "|". I suppose it's
fair, though, because now everyone is equally confused.

So you agree it should be "false " and "true"? :-)

Yeah, I always turn false the TV before going to bed... And now I must remember to go turn the coffee pot true. :-P I still think that bit { off, on }, bool { false, true } makes more sense? But as long as I can still make-believe that they are separate, the current D "bool" alias is OK. --anders PS. Other famous engineering-nerd-meets-the-real-world clashes I have: - Windows operating systems > Start Menu > *Shut Down* menu item - Macintosh operating systems > Disk icon > Trashcan to *unmount* - Sony Ericsson phone > "No" button > press and hold to turn *on* Here's a nice gallery : http://www.baddesigns.com/examples.html
Feb 28 2005
parent "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Anders F Björklund" <afb algonet.se> wrote in message
news:cvumcu$2658$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 PS.
 Other famous engineering-nerd-meets-the-real-world clashes I have:
 - Windows operating systems > Start Menu > *Shut Down* menu item
 - Macintosh operating systems > Disk icon > Trashcan to *unmount*
 - Sony Ericsson phone > "No" button > press and hold to turn *on*

 Here's a nice gallery : http://www.baddesigns.com/examples.html

On my phone, the "hang up" button is what turns the phone on. ??? Airplanes have always had struggles with this sort of thing. There's a case where a military aircraft was coming in for a landing, and an emergency arose where it needed to abort the landing, go to full power, and go around. The pilot yelled "takeoff power!". The engineer obligingly cut power to the engines. The airplane crashed. As a result of that, the proper phrase for full power was changed to "meeto power". The cockpit designer for the 757 told me once that all the controls seem obvious in a cockpit. But, he said, everything that is now "obvious" was paid for with a crash and somebody's blood. Obvious designs really aren't obvious except in hindsight. Check out the book "The Design of Everyday Things" which every engineer should read.
Feb 28 2005
prev sibling parent reply "Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> writes:
"Roberto Mariottini" <Roberto_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
news:cvul5o$250v$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 In article <cvmsiv$bel$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

But I still can't remember which is on or off, "O" or "|". I suppose it's
fair, though, because now everyone is equally confused.

So you agree it should be "false " and "true"? :-)

LOL. I checked, and "O" means "on" and "|" means "off". So if you think of it as looking like zero or one, it's backwards. What moron ever came up with that?
Feb 28 2005
next sibling parent reply John Reimer <brk_6502 yahoo.com> writes:
Walter wrote:
 "Roberto Mariottini" <Roberto_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
 news:cvul5o$250v$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 
In article <cvmsiv$bel$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

[...]

But I still can't remember which is on or off, "O" or "|". I suppose it's
fair, though, because now everyone is equally confused.

So you agree it should be "false " and "true"? :-)

LOL. I checked, and "O" means "on" and "|" means "off". So if you think of it as looking like zero or one, it's backwards. What moron ever came up with that?

Darn it! And I thought I knew the answer to that one. I was sure 1 meant "on" and 0 meant "off," just like the binary digits. So much for that! - JJR
Feb 28 2005
parent Jared Thirsk <news jared.thirsk.name> writes:
John Reimer wrote:
 
 Darn it!  And I thought I knew the answer to that one.  I was sure 1
 meant "on" and 0 meant "off," just like the binary digits.  So much for
 that!
 
 - JJR

If you think that's bad... I have a lamp that has O for off, I for high power, and II for low power. What I love is when my mind used to tell itself "It's exactly opposite to what you think it is", and then I took turns with what I thought it was. -Jared
Mar 07 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent reply =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_F_Bj=F6rklund?= <afb algonet.se> writes:
Walter wrote:

 LOL. I checked, and "O" means "on" and "|" means "off". So if you think of
 it as looking like zero or one, it's backwards. What moron ever came up with
 that?

Somehow, it just gotta be Marketing... :-) --ander
Feb 28 2005
parent Alix Pexton <alix.pexton gmail.com> writes:
I would guess that the circle represents a complete/closed circuit for 
on, while the bar is for incomplete/open, ie off.

Though I must admit that prior to reading this thread I thought it was 
like binary, hence the other way around.

Alix...

Anders F Björklund wrote:
 Walter wrote:
 
 LOL. I checked, and "O" means "on" and "|" means "off". So if you 
 think of
 it as looking like zero or one, it's backwards. What moron ever came 
 up with
 that?

Somehow, it just gotta be Marketing... :-) --ander

Feb 28 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent "IkeaTheSofa -.- Marcus" <ikea_the_sofa hotmail.com> writes:
"Walter" <newshound digitalmars.com> wrote in
news:cvvuap$he3$1 digitaldaemon.com: 

 
 "Roberto Mariottini" <Roberto_member pathlink.com> wrote in message
 news:cvul5o$250v$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 In article <cvmsiv$bel$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

But I still can't remember which is on or off, "O" or "|". I suppose
it's fair, though, because now everyone is equally confused.

So you agree it should be "false " and "true"? :-)

LOL. I checked, and "O" means "on" and "|" means "off". So if you think of it as looking like zero or one, it's backwards. What moron ever came up with that?

So far has this topic traveled, it can no longer tell which direction is home. LOL, I agree with Anders, it just has to be marketing. Many useful products have been brought to their knee's by greedy marketing grad's.
Feb 28 2005
prev sibling parent reply Roberto Mariottini <Roberto_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cvvuap$he3$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...
 I checked, and "O" means "on" and "|" means "off". So if you think of
it as looking like zero or one, it's backwards. What moron ever came up with
that?

I can't believe. Here (in Italy, Europe) the "O" means "zero", "nothing" (and is generally red), while "I" (written like an uppercase i) means "one", "something" (and is generally green). Moreover, electric power switches are normally put in a way that pulling up switches it on and pushing down switches it off. Ciao
Mar 01 2005
parent Paul Bonser <misterpib gmail.com> writes:
Roberto Mariottini wrote:
 In article <cvvuap$he3$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...
 
I checked, and "O" means "on" and "|" means "off". So if you think of
it as looking like zero or one, it's backwards. What moron ever came up with
that?

I can't believe. Here (in Italy, Europe) the "O" means "zero", "nothing" (and is generally red), while "I" (written like an uppercase i) means "one", "something" (and is generally green). Moreover, electric power switches are normally put in a way that pulling up switches it on and pushing down switches it off. Ciao

I live in the US, and I've only ever seen ones where the 0 Means off and the 1 means on... Though most stuff I have anymore just has a single button for both that you push to toggle between the two. -- -PIB -- "C++ also supports the notion of *friends*: cooperative classes that are permitted to see each other's private parts." - Grady Booch
Mar 02 2005
prev sibling parent Roberto Mariottini <Roberto_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <cvmhd0$2vnt$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...

Done! www.digitalmars.com/techtips/command_prompt.html

I think there's a typo: you should put in the path both dmd\bin and dm\bin, not dmd\bin twice. Ciao
Feb 24 2005
prev sibling next sibling parent Mitja <Mitja_member pathlink.com> writes:
I'm 22, so I'm not sure if I was even a glimmer in my fathers eyes when 
you two (Darek and Kris) started programming.. I've been taught using an 
IDE and I guess must seem needy to not know how to use the command line 
and such. Just really want to learn D and am willing to go to whatever 
lengths it takes. I've been researching D for a few days now and it 
amuses me the amount of people promising to make an IDE and these post 
turn out to be 2 or three years ago and I still can't find anything 
remotely like a full functioning IDE. I have had a hard time even getting 
a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is 
Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts

One may still get DIDE (dide_full_995a_UNSUPPORTED.zip) at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dide/ . After joining the group click files on the left menu and choose the file name above.
Feb 22 2005
prev sibling parent Mike Parker <aldacron71 yahoo.com> writes:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

IkeaTheSofa wrote:

 I have had a hard time even getting 
 a text editor to do the syntax coloring right.. the closest i've come is 
 Crimson Editor and it seems anemic at best. Thanks for everyones thoughts
 

I have no trouble with Crimson Editor and D. Perhaps you don't have the proper d.key and d.spc files? Here's a copy/paste d.spc for you: -------- COPY BELOW THIS LINE -------------------------------------- # D LANGUAGE (DigitalMars.com) SPECIFICATION FILE FOR CRIMSON EDITOR # FIRST EDITED BY Srecko Howard 30/01/04 $CASESENSITIVE=YES $DELIMITERS=~`! #$%^&*()-+=|\{}[]:;"',.<>/? $KEYWORDPREFIX=# $HEXADECIMALMARK=0x $ESCAPECHAR=\ $QUOTATIONMARK1=" $QUOTATIONMARK2=' $LINECOMMENT=// $BLOCKCOMMENTON=/* $BLOCKCOMMENTOFF=*/ $INDENTATIONON={ $INDENTATIONOFF=} $PAIRS1=() $PAIRS2=[] $PAIRS3={} #$PAIRS4=!() --------- COPY ABOVE THIS LINE ------------------------------------- Copy the above and paste it over your existing d.spc, or create a new one if it doesn't exist. This should be in the Crimson Editor\spec directory. Attached is an updated d.key file with keywords that were not in the original (such as 'package'). This should also go in the Crimson Editor\spec directory. The only problem I've had at all with syntax highlighting in CE is when using /+...+/ comment blocks. The spc file only allows you to specify one type of block comment. The last $BLOCKCOMMENTON/OFF pair specified will overwrite the first one. Otherwise, everything works as expected.
Feb 22 2005
prev sibling parent reply "Matthew" <admin stlsoft.dot.dot.dot.dot.org> writes:
Since I'm actually _from_ Yorkshire, I shall simply hang back and 
imagine all the risible attempts at a Yorkshire accent from all you 
foreigners. (Foreign to Yorkshire, of course <g>)

"Kris" <Kris_member pathlink.com> wrote in message 
news:cveefb$1ots$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell 
 says...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers! Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...

Feb 22 2005
parent Kris <Kris_member pathlink.com> writes:
Oh, go on Matthew ~ education is a wonderful thing, and typing one's rendition
of an accent is often funnier than the content (should see some of the daft
Scottish ones I stumble upon). As I understand it, you and a number of others
were 

"living in a shoebox, in the middle of a lake ..."



In article <cvgvm8$2h4f$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Matthew says...
Since I'm actually _from_ Yorkshire, I shall simply hang back and 
imagine all the risible attempts at a Yorkshire accent from all you 
foreigners. (Foreign to Yorkshire, of course <g>)

"Kris" <Kris_member pathlink.com> wrote in message 
news:cveefb$1ots$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 In article <cv9g7bk4uaw2.w0ltmbeb826k.dlg 40tude.net>, Derek Parnell 
 says...
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:42:55 -0500, Jarrett Billingsley wrote:

D, in its current form, is not for the beginner.


Mm I'd have to agree with Sebastian here, really only because of the lack of an IDE and the fact that the language keeps changing. I'd love to teach my friend D as he wants to learn how to program, but that would also mean I'd have to teach him how to compile everything from the commandline and link it and figure out linker errors and etc.. There is no way to make a project, type some code, and have it run. Though if I finish my IDE once I get some time, that might change.. ;)

My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets! And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

You were lucky! We used t'dream o 'aving a compiler! Had two bits of broken ol' sticks that wer 'ad to knock together t'make our own shift-registers! Compiler? Huh ~ luxury ...


Feb 22 2005
prev sibling parent reply Georg Wrede <georg.wrede nospam.org> writes:
Derek Parnell wrote:
 My goodness! What wimps... there was no fancy IDE gizmo when I first
 learned programming. Just COBOL using punched cards and coding sheets!
 And we were lucky if we were allowed two compiles per day. ;-)

Same here! And two compiles per day _if you were lucky_, today's people just cannot believe that was literally true! For a second compile I regularly had to buy, bribe, lie, cheat, and such. I did FORTRAN, and I still have puch cards as mementos. ----- More seriously, I have taught programming, and the classes where we used only a compiler fared much better than those where we used an IDE. Using just a compiler, lets you "just do programming", but an IDE has all kinds of bells and whistles and fills your screen with a lot of stuff and icons and buttons. And "helpful" things that pop up right in the middle of where you are writing. So programming, and especially trying to learn the concepts gets kind of shovelled to the side. And you can't help the feeling that it was not you who created the program, but the IDE. But with a plain compiler and a text editor, you _know_ that what you created, you did yourself!
Feb 22 2005
next sibling parent MicroWizard <MicroWizard_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <421AFBBB.5040404 nospam.org>, Georg Wrede says...
And you can't help the feeling that it was not you who created
the program, but the IDE. But with a plain compiler and a text
editor, you _know_ that what you created, you did yourself!

Thanks, Georg! I feel this is the reason why most people here try to use D.
Feb 22 2005
prev sibling parent Sebastian Beschke <s.beschke gmx.de> writes:
Georg Wrede schrieb:
 Using just a compiler, lets you "just do programming", but an IDE
 has all kinds of bells and whistles and fills your screen with
 a lot of stuff and icons and buttons. And "helpful" things that
 pop up right in the middle of where you are writing. So
 programming, and especially trying to learn the concepts gets
 kind of shovelled to the side.

OK, you're probably right on that one. But I still think that learning programming with Python is easier to do than learning it with D. :) -Sebastian
Feb 22 2005
prev sibling parent "uframer" <uframer sina100.com.cn> writes:
"IkeaTheSofa" <ikea_the_sofa hotmail.com>
дÈëÏûÏ¢ÐÂÎÅ:Xns96043C1E0F794ikeathesofaAThotmail 63.105.9.61...
I am new to programming in general and just started learning C++. I was
 looking for a free to use compiler and found digital mars and D. I was
 really excited to hear about D and wanted to learn it instead because I
 already know some Java and D seems similar in a lot of ways but is more
 feature like C++. I have been looking through website after website on D
 and most of them have the last update in 2002 or the website is down. 
 There
 seems to have been a bunch of IDE's started for D but none have really 
 came
 into useability. Is D a viable langauge? What is happening with the D
 community? Anyone who has experience with D and developing in it, I would
 appreciate some advice.. Thank you in advance.

 IkeaTheSofa

beginner language.But i'm sure that it's really a natural choice to a c/c++(especially c++) programmer.i mean, everything is natural, they're just there when you need them. Note: it's really a "IMO" :)
Feb 21 2005