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D.gnu - Supported architectures for D

reply Wim Vander Schelden <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> writes:
Hi, I was wondering which architectures and/or operating systems are 
(fully or partially) supported by gdc? I find D an interesting language, 
but I like to keep my code portable.

I am particularly interested int ARM, PowerPC and SH3 architectures.

Kind regards,

Wim
Aug 16 2006
parent reply Chad J <gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> writes:
Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 Hi, I was wondering which architectures and/or operating systems are 
 (fully or partially) supported by gdc? I find D an interesting language, 
 but I like to keep my code portable.
 
 I am particularly interested int ARM, PowerPC and SH3 architectures.
 
 Kind regards,
 
 Wim

I am currently working on the ARM/pocketPC platform. I've released the compiler already, though it suffers from some big problems like the garbage collector crashing during collection. For more info and the download, read the thread called "GDC D compiler for PocketPCs is here!". Debugging in progress... I don't plan on doing an SH3 port myself since all of the new PDAs seem to be using ARM processors of various types. I do hope to have a ARM-PalmOS port some day, but some day could be very far into the future. For everything else, check "Supported Targets" on this page: http://dgcc.sourceforge.net/
Aug 16 2006
parent reply Wim Vander Schelden <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> writes:
I don't have a PocketPC any more, I now own a Tungsten|C, on which I 
intend to run Linux by the end of the summer. I'd like to help you with 
porting the compiler over to ARM/Linux once it does, if you're 
interested in such a port.

Wim

Chad J schreef:
 Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 Hi, I was wondering which architectures and/or operating systems are 
 (fully or partially) supported by gdc? I find D an interesting 
 language, but I like to keep my code portable.

 I am particularly interested int ARM, PowerPC and SH3 architectures.

 Kind regards,

 Wim

I am currently working on the ARM/pocketPC platform. I've released the compiler already, though it suffers from some big problems like the garbage collector crashing during collection. For more info and the download, read the thread called "GDC D compiler for PocketPCs is here!". Debugging in progress... I don't plan on doing an SH3 port myself since all of the new PDAs seem to be using ARM processors of various types. I do hope to have a ARM-PalmOS port some day, but some day could be very far into the future. For everything else, check "Supported Targets" on this page: http://dgcc.sourceforge.net/

Aug 16 2006
next sibling parent reply "John Reimer" <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:42:26 -0700, Wim Vander Schelden  
<wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> wrote:

 I don't have a PocketPC any more, I now own a Tungsten|C, on which I  
 intend to run Linux by the end of the summer. I'd like to help you with  
 porting the compiler over to ARM/Linux once it does, if you're  
 interested in such a port.

 Wim

I used to own a Tungsten|C and loved the sturdy PDA (great battery life!). But, unfortunately, it took just one little mishap and the screen cracked. It really annoyed me to find out that many other Tungsten|C users had the same problem. Palm manufactured horrible screens, and didn't provide any default way to effectively replace it or to protect it effectively. I would probably still use that excellent PDA if it weren't for that. Now all the parts sit uselessly in my closet, and I'm stuck using a Windows Mobile 5.0 device Dell X50v which I really don't like very much because of all the WM5 software and OS bloat and horrible UI. All that supposed "power" sucks the battery dry and wm5 still is a ugly, slow clunker (you have to slow the CPU down to make the battery last and that makes the already cluttered OS run slow). Sad to say, I've dropped my Dell many times and it still won't die -- it just keeps running like a clunker :P. That says it's a well-made machine with a very poorly designed OS. Gone are the days of the "best of both worlds." I loved the fast responsiveness of the old palm days. *sigh* /end of sad PDA story -JJR
Aug 16 2006
parent reply Wim Vander Schelden <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> writes:
I have noticed strange thing just below the surface of my screen as 
well, they look like bubbles, and I have noticed the screens surface is 
very easily damaged (scratches etc) so lets just hope it doesn't break 
just yet. As for the responsiveness of palm os, sure, if you use it for 
its calendar and things like that it may be responsive, but once you use 
its wifi things go wrong :) I never used WM5, but WM2k3 worked nicely 
for me, albeit it often crashed. A friend of mine owned a Dell x50v, and 
it was bulky, power hungry and the UI was dog ugly, way worse than the 
simple WM2k3. Why didn't they just stick their Windows XP teletubbie 
skin (green-blue and a wallpaper of a hill that looks like its a 
screenshot from teletubbieland) on it to make the torment complete?
That said, he API for software development is awful on a palm, its 
something that should have been flagged "deprecated" a few decades ago. 
Thank god their switching to linux :)

/End of off-topic slandering of all PDA OS'es

- Wim

John Reimer schreef:
 On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:42:26 -0700, Wim Vander Schelden 
 <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> wrote:
 
 I don't have a PocketPC any more, I now own a Tungsten|C, on which I 
 intend to run Linux by the end of the summer. I'd like to help you 
 with porting the compiler over to ARM/Linux once it does, if you're 
 interested in such a port.

 Wim

I used to own a Tungsten|C and loved the sturdy PDA (great battery life!). But, unfortunately, it took just one little mishap and the screen cracked. It really annoyed me to find out that many other Tungsten|C users had the same problem. Palm manufactured horrible screens, and didn't provide any default way to effectively replace it or to protect it effectively. I would probably still use that excellent PDA if it weren't for that. Now all the parts sit uselessly in my closet, and I'm stuck using a Windows Mobile 5.0 device Dell X50v which I really don't like very much because of all the WM5 software and OS bloat and horrible UI. All that supposed "power" sucks the battery dry and wm5 still is a ugly, slow clunker (you have to slow the CPU down to make the battery last and that makes the already cluttered OS run slow). Sad to say, I've dropped my Dell many times and it still won't die -- it just keeps running like a clunker :P. That says it's a well-made machine with a very poorly designed OS. Gone are the days of the "best of both worlds." I loved the fast responsiveness of the old palm days. *sigh* /end of sad PDA story -JJR

Aug 17 2006
parent reply Chad J <gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> writes:
Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 I have noticed strange thing just below the surface of my screen as 
 well, they look like bubbles, and I have noticed the screens surface is 
 very easily damaged (scratches etc) so lets just hope it doesn't break 
 just yet. As for the responsiveness of palm os, sure, if you use it for 
 its calendar and things like that it may be responsive, but once you use 
 its wifi things go wrong :) I never used WM5, but WM2k3 worked nicely 
 for me, albeit it often crashed. A friend of mine owned a Dell x50v, and 
 it was bulky, power hungry and the UI was dog ugly, way worse than the 
 simple WM2k3. Why didn't they just stick their Windows XP teletubbie 
 skin (green-blue and a wallpaper of a hill that looks like its a 
 screenshot from teletubbieland) on it to make the torment complete?
 That said, he API for software development is awful on a palm, its 
 something that should have been flagged "deprecated" a few decades ago. 
 Thank god their switching to linux :)
 
 /End of off-topic slandering of all PDA OS'es
 
 - Wim
 

So a Dell x50v with WM2k3 would be a decent choice (I'm thinking of getting one)? I want the 480x640 res, and I want to be able to run my D programs on it :) Yeah the palm API... this is why I am working on a WinCE port and not a Palm port, and why I'm willing to give ARM-linux a shot but I'm not going to touch palm until the game I want to write is completed. It seems like a lot of extra work in Phobos making everything work with palm, when they might just switch to linux soon.
Aug 17 2006
next sibling parent reply "John Reimer" <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:38:51 -0700, Chad J  
<gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> wrote:

 Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 I have noticed strange thing just below the surface of my screen as  
 well, they look like bubbles, and I have noticed the screens surface is  
 very easily damaged (scratches etc) so lets just hope it doesn't break  
 just yet. As for the responsiveness of palm os, sure, if you use it for  
 its calendar and things like that it may be responsive, but once you  
 use its wifi things go wrong :) I never used WM5, but WM2k3 worked  
 nicely for me, albeit it often crashed. A friend of mine owned a Dell  
 x50v, and it was bulky, power hungry and the UI was dog ugly, way worse  
 than the simple WM2k3. Why didn't they just stick their Windows XP  
 teletubbie skin (green-blue and a wallpaper of a hill that looks like  
 its a screenshot from teletubbieland) on it to make the torment  
 complete?
 That said, he API for software development is awful on a palm, its  
 something that should have been flagged "deprecated" a few decades ago.  
 Thank god their switching to linux :)
  /End of off-topic slandering of all PDA OS'es
  - Wim

So a Dell x50v with WM2k3 would be a decent choice (I'm thinking of getting one)? I want the 480x640 res, and I want to be able to run my D programs on it :) Yeah the palm API... this is why I am working on a WinCE port and not a Palm port, and why I'm willing to give ARM-linux a shot but I'm not going to touch palm until the game I want to write is completed. It seems like a lot of extra work in Phobos making everything work with palm, when they might just switch to linux soon.

It's true, Palm just isn't a choice. While I liked it's responsiveness and simple user interface, I agree with Wim that the programming interface was an embarassment: it was rediculously outdated and horribly handicapped despite new technology. You couldn't take advantage of the 32-bit ARM without serious duct tape. Neither could you program outside of 64K (32K?) because you were basically working within the old Motorola emulator limitations. I don't mind seeing a linux replacement on Palm... but Palm has lost no matter what they do now. It's a joke. I doubt they can recover from their fall seeing that there are already several linux PDA alternatives out there now. Furhermore the PDA craze seems to already be fading. I don't like the WinCE programming interface either, which amounts to win32 programming, but I certainly wouldn't mind programming on it if D were available there. -JJR
Aug 17 2006
parent reply Chad J <gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> writes:
John Reimer wrote:
 On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:38:51 -0700, Chad J  
 <gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> wrote:
 
 Wim Vander Schelden wrote:

 I have noticed strange thing just below the surface of my screen as  
 well, they look like bubbles, and I have noticed the screens surface 
 is  very easily damaged (scratches etc) so lets just hope it doesn't 
 break  just yet. As for the responsiveness of palm os, sure, if you 
 use it for  its calendar and things like that it may be responsive, 
 but once you  use its wifi things go wrong :) I never used WM5, but 
 WM2k3 worked  nicely for me, albeit it often crashed. A friend of 
 mine owned a Dell  x50v, and it was bulky, power hungry and the UI 
 was dog ugly, way worse  than the simple WM2k3. Why didn't they just 
 stick their Windows XP  teletubbie skin (green-blue and a wallpaper 
 of a hill that looks like  its a screenshot from teletubbieland) on 
 it to make the torment  complete?
 That said, he API for software development is awful on a palm, its  
 something that should have been flagged "deprecated" a few decades 
 ago.  Thank god their switching to linux :)
  /End of off-topic slandering of all PDA OS'es
  - Wim

So a Dell x50v with WM2k3 would be a decent choice (I'm thinking of getting one)? I want the 480x640 res, and I want to be able to run my D programs on it :) Yeah the palm API... this is why I am working on a WinCE port and not a Palm port, and why I'm willing to give ARM-linux a shot but I'm not going to touch palm until the game I want to write is completed. It seems like a lot of extra work in Phobos making everything work with palm, when they might just switch to linux soon.

It's true, Palm just isn't a choice. While I liked it's responsiveness and simple user interface, I agree with Wim that the programming interface was an embarassment: it was rediculously outdated and horribly handicapped despite new technology. You couldn't take advantage of the 32-bit ARM without serious duct tape. Neither could you program outside of 64K (32K?) because you were basically working within the old Motorola emulator limitations. I don't mind seeing a linux replacement on Palm... but Palm has lost no matter what they do now. It's a joke. I doubt they can recover from their fall seeing that there are already several linux PDA alternatives out there now. Furhermore the PDA craze seems to already be fading. I don't like the WinCE programming interface either, which amounts to win32 programming, but I certainly wouldn't mind programming on it if D were available there. -JJR

It is good for us that WinCE is similar to Win32, makes phobos much easier to port. But Palm is similar to nothing. I think there's a way around the 64kB limit using the FtrPtrNew function. That still leaves emulating a file system, unless the Palm VFS can be used on the PDA's own RAM. Also anything that isn't covered by the few POSIX functions that Palm seems to have exposed (<a href="http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/docs/dev_suite/CompilerRef/CompilerRef_RuntimeFunct ons.html">link</a>) will need to be handled with fresh phobos code. oh joy. I haven't heard of that ARM limitation. That sounds scary too. What does it use by default instead of 32 bit ARM code?
Aug 17 2006
parent Wim Vander Schelden <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> writes:
 I haven't heard of that ARM limitation.  That sounds scary too.  What 
 does it use by default instead of 32 bit ARM code?

Compatibility I suppose. Or laziness from their side?
Aug 17 2006
prev sibling parent Wim Vander Schelden <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> writes:
Indeed, that's why I have always been hesitant to develop anything on my 
palm. Windows Mobile is a sweet platform to develop for on the other 
hand, with great support from MS. And that's coming from a linux fan.

- Wim

Chad J schreef:
 Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 I have noticed strange thing just below the surface of my screen as 
 well, they look like bubbles, and I have noticed the screens surface 
 is very easily damaged (scratches etc) so lets just hope it doesn't 
 break just yet. As for the responsiveness of palm os, sure, if you use 
 it for its calendar and things like that it may be responsive, but 
 once you use its wifi things go wrong :) I never used WM5, but WM2k3 
 worked nicely for me, albeit it often crashed. A friend of mine owned 
 a Dell x50v, and it was bulky, power hungry and the UI was dog ugly, 
 way worse than the simple WM2k3. Why didn't they just stick their 
 Windows XP teletubbie skin (green-blue and a wallpaper of a hill that 
 looks like its a screenshot from teletubbieland) on it to make the 
 torment complete?
 That said, he API for software development is awful on a palm, its 
 something that should have been flagged "deprecated" a few decades 
 ago. Thank god their switching to linux :)

 /End of off-topic slandering of all PDA OS'es

 - Wim

So a Dell x50v with WM2k3 would be a decent choice (I'm thinking of getting one)? I want the 480x640 res, and I want to be able to run my D programs on it :) Yeah the palm API... this is why I am working on a WinCE port and not a Palm port, and why I'm willing to give ARM-linux a shot but I'm not going to touch palm until the game I want to write is completed. It seems like a lot of extra work in Phobos making everything work with palm, when they might just switch to linux soon.

Aug 17 2006
prev sibling parent reply Chad J <gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> writes:
Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 I don't have a PocketPC any more, I now own a Tungsten|C, on which I 
 intend to run Linux by the end of the summer. I'd like to help you with 
 porting the compiler over to ARM/Linux once it does, if you're 
 interested in such a port.
 
 Wim

An ARM-Linux port would be great. I probably won't be willing to spend any months on it like WinCE, at least not so soon, but I am willing to give it a shot :) If we take on ARM-Linux then you will have to do the runtime debugging since I don't have a Linux PDA. Be sure and post or email me when you want to do this. At this point earlier is better - I have college coming mid-september, with 3 physics classes and a vector analysis math class, so I won't be able to help as much then. If you have time, I suggest possibly just getting the compiler to compile, even if you don't have a PDA to test on yet. Just getting an executable to test on my PDA took me a loooong time.
Aug 16 2006
next sibling parent reply "John Reimer" <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:47:36 -0700, Chad J  
<gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> wrote:

 Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 I don't have a PocketPC any more, I now own a Tungsten|C, on which I  
 intend to run Linux by the end of the summer. I'd like to help you with  
 porting the compiler over to ARM/Linux once it does, if you're  
 interested in such a port.
  Wim

An ARM-Linux port would be great. I probably won't be willing to spend any months on it like WinCE, at least not so soon, but I am willing to give it a shot :) If we take on ARM-Linux then you will have to do the runtime debugging since I don't have a Linux PDA. Be sure and post or email me when you want to do this. At this point earlier is better - I have college coming mid-september, with 3 physics classes and a vector analysis math class, so I won't be able to help as much then. If you have time, I suggest possibly just getting the compiler to compile, even if you don't have a PDA to test on yet. Just getting an executable to test on my PDA took me a loooong time.

I have a linux arm-based PDA. I haven't tried doing any work with gdc on it yet. It's a wonderful Sharp Zaurus SL-C3200 (I also have the SL-C700) and it runs OpenZaurus. An excellent machine for this sort of thing. I'd love to test this out. I'm surprised that there is a Linux available for the Tungsten|C. That would make a great little machine. Which linux is that? Links? Maybe I can somehow find a way to get poor broken Tungsten back into working shape after 2 years in the closet. -JJR
Aug 16 2006
parent reply Wim Vander Schelden <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> writes:
We're developing our own port at the moment, and then join Hack'n'Dev 
and Familiar for packages. Currently Linux boots, but the touch screen 
and the keyboard don't work yet. We will get GPE running in all its 
glory by the next school year though.

About the Zaurus: You have _TWO_? I think I speak for several Linux 
guru-wannabes here when I say I spend months looking for one, but never 
got a decent deal on it, and still regret the day I didn't buy one.

- Wim

John Reimer schreef:
 On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:47:36 -0700, Chad J 
 <gamerChad _spamIsBad_gmail.com> wrote:
 
 Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 I don't have a PocketPC any more, I now own a Tungsten|C, on which I 
 intend to run Linux by the end of the summer. I'd like to help you 
 with porting the compiler over to ARM/Linux once it does, if you're 
 interested in such a port.
  Wim

An ARM-Linux port would be great. I probably won't be willing to spend any months on it like WinCE, at least not so soon, but I am willing to give it a shot :) If we take on ARM-Linux then you will have to do the runtime debugging since I don't have a Linux PDA. Be sure and post or email me when you want to do this. At this point earlier is better - I have college coming mid-september, with 3 physics classes and a vector analysis math class, so I won't be able to help as much then. If you have time, I suggest possibly just getting the compiler to compile, even if you don't have a PDA to test on yet. Just getting an executable to test on my PDA took me a loooong time.

I have a linux arm-based PDA. I haven't tried doing any work with gdc on it yet. It's a wonderful Sharp Zaurus SL-C3200 (I also have the SL-C700) and it runs OpenZaurus. An excellent machine for this sort of thing. I'd love to test this out. I'm surprised that there is a Linux available for the Tungsten|C. That would make a great little machine. Which linux is that? Links? Maybe I can somehow find a way to get poor broken Tungsten back into working shape after 2 years in the closet. -JJR

Aug 17 2006
parent reply "John Reimer" <terminal.node gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:06:17 -0700, Wim Vander Schelden  
<wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> wrote:

 We're developing our own port at the moment, and then join Hack'n'Dev  
 and Familiar for packages. Currently Linux boots, but the touch screen  
 and the keyboard don't work yet. We will get GPE running in all its  
 glory by the next school year though.

Ahh, I was wondering because I'd never heard of a linux port for the Tungsten|C before.
 About the Zaurus: You have _TWO_? I think I speak for several Linux  
 guru-wannabes here when I say I spend months looking for one, but never  
 got a decent deal on it, and still regret the day I didn't buy one.

Yes, two :). One from an easy ebay deal (the C700) and the other from overseas (C3200). No decent deal was available on the C3200, of course. I just grit my teeth and shelled out the money. I just wanted one that bad :P. The C700 series wasn't that hard to find on ebay for a good deal, though. It's battery life is the most dismal of the 7** and 8** clamshell series, but it's certainly an excellent and inexpensive unit for experimenting on before I touch the likes of the shiny C3200. And I love having a rotatable 640x480 screen. :) Another unit that greatly interests me is the GP2X. That linux-based unit, although it's more media and game console oriented, looks fascinating. And it's not all that expensive either. -JJR
Aug 17 2006
parent Wim Vander Schelden <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> writes:
Yes but their violating GPL when I last heard anything about it, so I'm 
not sure whether there will be continued support and kernel updates. The 
GP2X is nice though, as a game development platform, but not as 
versatile as the Zauri.

- Wim

John Reimer schreef:
 On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:06:17 -0700, Wim Vander Schelden 
 <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> wrote:
 
 We're developing our own port at the moment, and then join Hack'n'Dev 
 and Familiar for packages. Currently Linux boots, but the touch screen 
 and the keyboard don't work yet. We will get GPE running in all its 
 glory by the next school year though.

Ahh, I was wondering because I'd never heard of a linux port for the Tungsten|C before.
 About the Zaurus: You have _TWO_? I think I speak for several Linux 
 guru-wannabes here when I say I spend months looking for one, but 
 never got a decent deal on it, and still regret the day I didn't buy one.

Yes, two :). One from an easy ebay deal (the C700) and the other from overseas (C3200). No decent deal was available on the C3200, of course. I just grit my teeth and shelled out the money. I just wanted one that bad :P. The C700 series wasn't that hard to find on ebay for a good deal, though. It's battery life is the most dismal of the 7** and 8** clamshell series, but it's certainly an excellent and inexpensive unit for experimenting on before I touch the likes of the shiny C3200. And I love having a rotatable 640x480 screen. :) Another unit that greatly interests me is the GP2X. That linux-based unit, although it's more media and game console oriented, looks fascinating. And it's not all that expensive either. -JJR

Aug 17 2006
prev sibling parent reply Wim Vander Schelden <wim.vanderschelden gmail.com> writes:
I'm currently studying for an exam, so I don't have much time 
unfortunately. My first priority is to get Linux running however, as 
we've been working on that for months and I want some working version 
before we start thinking about the things to do with such a device.

I'm free from Tuesday next week till mid-September, so I should have 
some time to get things done then. My email is the one I use to post 
here (I'm that crazy to use a real email ;) )

- Wim

Chad J schreef:
 Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 I don't have a PocketPC any more, I now own a Tungsten|C, on which I 
 intend to run Linux by the end of the summer. I'd like to help you 
 with porting the compiler over to ARM/Linux once it does, if you're 
 interested in such a port.

 Wim

An ARM-Linux port would be great. I probably won't be willing to spend any months on it like WinCE, at least not so soon, but I am willing to give it a shot :) If we take on ARM-Linux then you will have to do the runtime debugging since I don't have a Linux PDA. Be sure and post or email me when you want to do this. At this point earlier is better - I have college coming mid-september, with 3 physics classes and a vector analysis math class, so I won't be able to help as much then. If you have time, I suggest possibly just getting the compiler to compile, even if you don't have a PDA to test on yet. Just getting an executable to test on my PDA took me a loooong time.

Aug 17 2006
parent Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+spam com.gmail> writes:
Wim Vander Schelden wrote:
 I'm currently studying for an exam, so I don't have much time 
 unfortunately. My first priority is to get Linux running however, as 
 we've been working on that for months and I want some working version 
 before we start thinking about the things to do with such a device.
 
 I'm free from Tuesday next week till mid-September, so I should have 
 some time to get things done then. My email is the one I use to post 
 here (I'm that crazy to use a real email ;) )
 

You have GMail, so you can use gmail aliases by adding a plus sign to your username, like "john.foo+spam gmail.com". (http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=12096&query=aliases&topic=&type=f&ctx=search) If that's not enough, then a username without dots is also an alias: "johnfoo gmail.com" -- Bruno Medeiros - MSc in CS/E student http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D
Aug 18 2006