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D - Who D is Not For

reply Juarez Rudsatz <juarez correio.co> writes:
In D html manual we find a section "Who D is Not For".
I propose change this a little bit. This sound to me like excluding 
people what is not necessary at all.

See the comments bellow:

 Real time programming where latency must be guaranteed. 

The problem is the garbage colector. Or isn't? But there are no problem if someone make a real time gc. Simply let say "The D compiler and lib do not support real time yet.".
 Realistically, nobody is going to convert million line C or C++ 

code, D is not for legacy apps. (However, D supports legacy C APIs very well.) This paragraph could fit in another place better.
 Very small programs - a scripting or interpreted language like Python, 

Why not very small programs ? A very small program doesnt need necessaryly a extra baggage like Perl, Python or etc. If I make a simple program for my use, I don't wanna install that in every machine...
 As a first programming language - Basic or Java is more suitable for 

advanced programmers. Since D has killed the C "first time" problems ( strings, type enforcing, extensive use of pointers, ... ), it is a good choice as the Pascal or "pneumonic" BASIC. D has clear all concepts in structured and object oriented programming paradigms. And this contradicts some paragraphs before : "D is easy to learn, provides many capabilities to aid the programmer, and is well suited to aggressive compiler optimization technology". As in Brazil : Sell your fish ! ( if it is good better yet! ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jun 07 2002
next sibling parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
Some good points. I'll reevaluate that section. Thanks!

"Juarez Rudsatz" <juarez correio.co> wrote in message
news:Xns9226CFB33A0FFjuarezcom 63.105.9.61...
 In D html manual we find a section "Who D is Not For".
 I propose change this a little bit. This sound to me like excluding
 people what is not necessary at all.

 See the comments bellow:

 Real time programming where latency must be guaranteed.

The problem is the garbage colector. Or isn't? But there are no problem if someone make a real time gc. Simply let say "The D compiler and lib do not support real time yet.".
 Realistically, nobody is going to convert million line C or C++

code, D is not for legacy apps. (However, D supports legacy C APIs very well.) This paragraph could fit in another place better.
 Very small programs - a scripting or interpreted language like Python,

Why not very small programs ? A very small program doesnt need necessaryly a extra baggage like Perl, Python or etc. If I make a simple program for my use, I don't wanna install that in every machine...
 As a first programming language - Basic or Java is more suitable for

advanced programmers. Since D has killed the C "first time" problems ( strings, type enforcing, extensive use of pointers, ... ), it is a good choice as the Pascal or "pneumonic" BASIC. D has clear all concepts in structured and object oriented programming paradigms. And this contradicts some paragraphs before : "D is easy to learn, provides many capabilities to aid the programmer, and is well suited to aggressive compiler optimization technology". As in Brazil : Sell your fish ! ( if it is good better yet! ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jun 07 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthewatd hotmail.com> writes:
Agreed. I have done some work on timing comparisons, and D marks up very
well in small applications, so why not let it?



"Juarez Rudsatz" <juarez correio.co> wrote in message
news:Xns9226CFB33A0FFjuarezcom 63.105.9.61...
 In D html manual we find a section "Who D is Not For".
 I propose change this a little bit. This sound to me like excluding
 people what is not necessary at all.

 See the comments bellow:

 Real time programming where latency must be guaranteed.

The problem is the garbage colector. Or isn't? But there are no problem if someone make a real time gc. Simply let say "The D compiler and lib do not support real time yet.".
 Realistically, nobody is going to convert million line C or C++

code, D is not for legacy apps. (However, D supports legacy C APIs very well.) This paragraph could fit in another place better.
 Very small programs - a scripting or interpreted language like Python,

Why not very small programs ? A very small program doesnt need necessaryly a extra baggage like Perl, Python or etc. If I make a simple program for my use, I don't wanna install that in every machine...
 As a first programming language - Basic or Java is more suitable for

advanced programmers. Since D has killed the C "first time" problems ( strings, type enforcing, extensive use of pointers, ... ), it is a good choice as the Pascal or "pneumonic" BASIC. D has clear all concepts in structured and object oriented programming paradigms. And this contradicts some paragraphs before : "D is easy to learn, provides many capabilities to aid the programmer, and is well suited to aggressive compiler optimization technology". As in Brazil : Sell your fish ! ( if it is good better yet! ) ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jun 07 2002
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <matthewatd hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:adrhkb$1m3c$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Agreed. I have done some work on timing comparisons, and D marks up very
 well in small applications, so why not let it?

Good thing I did some work about a month ago speeding up the generated code <g>.
Jun 07 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> writes:
"Juarez Rudsatz" <juarez correio.co> wrote in message
news:Xns9226CFB33A0FFjuarezcom 63.105.9.61...
 In D html manual we find a section "Who D is Not For".
 I propose change this a little bit. This sound to me like excluding
 people what is not necessary at all.

 See the comments bellow:

 Real time programming where latency must be guaranteed.

The problem is the garbage colector. Or isn't? But there are no problem if someone make a real time gc. Simply let say "The D compiler and lib do not support real time yet.".

The garbage collector can be turned off and controlled pretty nicely. In the future perhaps we can even how often it runs and how long it can take.
 Realistically, nobody is going to convert million line C or C++

code, D is not for legacy apps. (However, D supports legacy C APIs very well.)

The preprocessor doesn't compile, but a tool (a good editor macro) could help automate the transition. C is easy to port to D. Easier than porting to Java (or BASIC!) probably. I ported a small app in about 4 hours and I was still figuring out some D basics (how to link!!) at the time.
 This paragraph could fit in another place better.

 Very small programs - a scripting or interpreted language like Python,

Why not very small programs ? A very small program doesnt need necessaryly a extra baggage like Perl, Python or etc. If I make a simple program for my use, I don't wanna install that in every machine...

The extensive Phobos library will make writing small programs a snap. D modules enable the compiler/linker to very easily strip unused code or data, so they shouldn't unrealistically increase the size of a compiled app. The core RTL is usually small (the GC and some other language support stuff) and the rest should get stripped if it isn't used. So long as D's stream and i/o modules don't get too big and intertwined I'd expect D apps to be small.
 As a first programming language - Basic or Java is more suitable for

advanced programmers. Since D has killed the C "first time" problems ( strings, type enforcing, extensive use of pointers, ... ), it is a good choice as the Pascal or "pneumonic" BASIC. D has clear all concepts in structured and object oriented programming paradigms. And this contradicts some paragraphs before : "D is easy to learn, provides many capabilities to aid the programmer, and is well suited to aggressive compiler optimization technology".

Yeah; D is as simple as Pascal or BASIC and lacks many of their flaws, has many more strengths. And it's syntactically closer to the "workforce" language C++ than either of those (but Java and C# also do this). D will be an excellent language for beginners. Some of the error messages are a bit cryptic at the moment; that makes things a bit more difficult.
 As in Brazil : Sell your fish ! ( if it is good better yet! )

I take it you're from Brazil. ;)
Jun 07 2002
parent reply "Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> writes:
"Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ads0b4$24hq$1 digitaldaemon.com...
| "Juarez Rudsatz" <juarez correio.co> wrote in message
| news:Xns9226CFB33A0FFjuarezcom 63.105.9.61...
| > In D html manual we find a section "Who D is Not For".
| > I propose change this a little bit. This sound to me like
excluding

| D will be an excellent language for beginners.
|

Which is exactly why I am choosing to learn to program with "D"
rather than C++.  Now if there were only some tutorials!!!
Jun 08 2002
next sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Sounds like a magazine column to me ... "Notes from a beginner on the
front-line"

"Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> wrote in message
news:adsrib$a94$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
 news:ads0b4$24hq$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 | "Juarez Rudsatz" <juarez correio.co> wrote in message
 | news:Xns9226CFB33A0FFjuarezcom 63.105.9.61...
 | > In D html manual we find a section "Who D is Not For".
 | > I propose change this a little bit. This sound to me like
 excluding

 | D will be an excellent language for beginners.
 |

 Which is exactly why I am choosing to learn to program with "D"
 rather than C++.  Now if there were only some tutorials!!!

Jun 08 2002
parent reply "OddesE" <OddesE_XYZ hotmail.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
news:adsuct$d3d$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Sounds like a magazine column to me ... "Notes from a beginner on the
 front-line"

 "Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> wrote in message
 news:adsrib$a94$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
 news:ads0b4$24hq$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 | "Juarez Rudsatz" <juarez correio.co> wrote in message
 | news:Xns9226CFB33A0FFjuarezcom 63.105.9.61...
 | > In D html manual we find a section "Who D is Not For".
 | > I propose change this a little bit. This sound to me like
 excluding

 | D will be an excellent language for beginners.
 |

 Which is exactly why I am choosing to learn to program with "D"
 rather than C++.  Now if there were only some tutorials!!!


Mathew is spotting those would-be D Journal authors everywhere! ;) -- Stijn OddesE_XYZ hotmail.com http://OddesE.cjb.net _________________________________________________ Remove _XYZ from my address when replying by mail
Jun 26 2002
parent "Matthew Wilson" <matthew thedjournal.com> writes:
One has acquired a certain beedy hawk-like eye

"OddesE" <OddesE_XYZ hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:afd9ie$2dna$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
 news:adsuct$d3d$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Sounds like a magazine column to me ... "Notes from a beginner on the
 front-line"

 "Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> wrote in message
 news:adsrib$a94$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
 news:ads0b4$24hq$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 | "Juarez Rudsatz" <juarez correio.co> wrote in message
 | news:Xns9226CFB33A0FFjuarezcom 63.105.9.61...
 | > In D html manual we find a section "Who D is Not For".
 | > I propose change this a little bit. This sound to me like
 excluding

 | D will be an excellent language for beginners.
 |

 Which is exactly why I am choosing to learn to program with "D"
 rather than C++.  Now if there were only some tutorials!!!


Mathew is spotting those would-be D Journal authors everywhere! ;) -- Stijn OddesE_XYZ hotmail.com http://OddesE.cjb.net _________________________________________________ Remove _XYZ from my address when replying by mail

Jun 26 2002
prev sibling parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> wrote in message
news:adsrib$a94$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
 news:ads0b4$24hq$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 | D will be an excellent language for beginners.
 Which is exactly why I am choosing to learn to program with "D"
 rather than C++.  Now if there were only some tutorials!!!

For fun, keep a log of your experiences learning with it. That could eventually be turned into an invaluable tutorial. -Walter
Jun 08 2002