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D - "The D Journal"

reply "Matthew Wilson" <mwilson nextgengaming.com> writes:
Has anyone thought of our starting a "D journal", presumably initially as a
web-site?

Does anyone think this is worth pursuing, or is it a little premature?
Perhaps waiting until ver 1 is released?

Thought ... ?
Jun 06 2002
next sibling parent "Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> writes:
I would be very interested in a "D Journal." Of course, I'm only
a quasi_novice programmer, and you not be able to contribute
much.  But the thought of growing alongside the language
intrigues me.

Just a thought!
Andrew

"Matthew Wilson" <mwilson nextgengaming.com> wrote in message
news:adpgtm$2ja6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
| Has anyone thought of our starting a "D journal", presumably
initially as a
| web-site?
|
| Does anyone think this is worth pursuing, or is it a little
premature?
| Perhaps waiting until ver 1 is released?
|
| Thought ... ?
|
|
Jun 07 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
I've thought about doing a web page with the "best of" from this newsgroup,
but I don't have the time to do it. Do you want to?

"Matthew Wilson" <mwilson nextgengaming.com> wrote in message
news:adpgtm$2ja6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Has anyone thought of our starting a "D journal", presumably initially as

 web-site?

 Does anyone think this is worth pursuing, or is it a little premature?
 Perhaps waiting until ver 1 is released?

 Thought ... ?

Jun 07 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthewatd hotmail.com> writes:
Walter

What I was thinking of was a fully-fledged magazine, probably bi-monthly,
which had the following features:

A notes section (very small tips, one-liners) - 4-8 per issue
A tips section (400-800 words) - 3-5 per issue
An articles section (2000-4000 words) 2-3 per issue
A "Word from Walter" column
An FAQ column, whereby readers questions would be answered by the D experts
Two more columns that would alternate (at a rate as deemed by the separate
subject areas and the number of contributors) between a number of major D
subject areas. Areas would include Windows development, realtime, other
platforms, performance, etc.

To do this we would need the following resources

1 or 2 people to do the web-design & graphics & layout the articles
at least 3 (preferably 5 or 6) technical editors for reviewing & validating
submissions, as well as providing answers to the FAQ column
1 or 2 supervising editors, arbitrating between article ideas, checking
readability etc.
Walter
Someone to run the FAQ column (possibly including taking the most worthy
items from the news group in times of Q drought)

I guess once we have it up and running we _could_ get advertising and all
that evil nonsense if there was a need, but I would have thought with a few
committed volunteers we could manage quite nicely.

If there is enough interest I am sure we could make this into a valuable
resource, for the promulgation of D to the thirsty folks who are currently
starting to drink the sand ( === .NET :)

So, any interest? Please shout up if you think it's (i) a good idea, (ii) a
bad idea; (iii) you would like to volunteer for one of the roles. Also, if
you think there are other features and/or roles, please speak up.

I have pre-emptively registered djournal.net and thedjournal.com
(djournal.com is taken) in case we have interest. (I can cancel these in the
next 72 hours if everyone thinks it is a bad idea, but it's not, is it ...
??? ;)

Matthew


"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:adqq49$tpq$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I've thought about doing a web page with the "best of" from this

 but I don't have the time to do it. Do you want to?

 "Matthew Wilson" <mwilson nextgengaming.com> wrote in message
 news:adpgtm$2ja6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Has anyone thought of our starting a "D journal", presumably initially


 a
 web-site?

 Does anyone think this is worth pursuing, or is it a little premature?
 Perhaps waiting until ver 1 is released?

 Thought ... ?


Jun 07 2002
next sibling parent reply "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <matthewatd hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ads2mo$26r4$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 So, any interest? Please shout up if you think it's (i) a good idea, (ii)

 bad idea; (iii) you would like to volunteer for one of the roles. Also, if
 you think there are other features and/or roles, please speak up.

It is a good idea, definitely. I wonder if I could help with anything? FAQ & coding tips, probably. By the way, one another thing that could be of interest to many people is a D tutorial, or something alike: a tour that would introduce C++ programmers into the world of D, covering new features, important differences, and frequently-made mistakes...
Jun 07 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Yes I like that idea.

[BTW, I had assumed you'd be one of the tech editors, given your apparent
(from the news-group) experience.]

We could have a "Moving over to D" column, in which we would through the
major languages, and contributors would be able to provide the transitional
tips and techniques from their own language. (Blimey that's not clear at
all, is it!)

As in

What I mean is that the  column would have

- Nov 2002, "Moving to D from Java"
- Nov 2002, "Moving to D from C++"
- Nov 2002, "Moving to D from Pascal"

etc. etc.



"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:ads5d7$29l5$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew Wilson" <matthewatd hotmail.com> wrote in message
 news:ads2mo$26r4$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 So, any interest? Please shout up if you think it's (i) a good idea,


 a
 bad idea; (iii) you would like to volunteer for one of the roles. Also,


 you think there are other features and/or roles, please speak up.

It is a good idea, definitely. I wonder if I could help with anything? FAQ & coding tips, probably. By the way, one another thing that could be of interest to many people is a D tutorial, or something alike: a tour that would introduce C++ programmers into the world of D, covering new features, important differences, and frequently-made mistakes...

Jun 07 2002
parent reply "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
news:ads845$2cdl$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 What I mean is that the  column would have

 - Nov 2002, "Moving to D from Java"
 - Nov 2002, "Moving to D from C++"
 - Nov 2002, "Moving to D from Pascal"

I would be happy to participate in writing the last two.
Jun 08 2002
parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Cool.

This is all coming together very nicely. Lot's of volunteering. :)

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:adt1ke$gi2$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
 news:ads845$2cdl$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 What I mean is that the  column would have

 - Nov 2002, "Moving to D from Java"
 - Nov 2002, "Moving to D from C++"
 - Nov 2002, "Moving to D from Pascal"

I would be happy to participate in writing the last two.

Jun 08 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
I think it's a great idea!

"Matthew Wilson" <matthewatd hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ads2mo$26r4$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Walter

 What I was thinking of was a fully-fledged magazine, probably bi-monthly,
 which had the following features:

 A notes section (very small tips, one-liners) - 4-8 per issue
 A tips section (400-800 words) - 3-5 per issue
 An articles section (2000-4000 words) 2-3 per issue
 A "Word from Walter" column
 An FAQ column, whereby readers questions would be answered by the D

 Two more columns that would alternate (at a rate as deemed by the separate
 subject areas and the number of contributors) between a number of major D
 subject areas. Areas would include Windows development, realtime, other
 platforms, performance, etc.

 To do this we would need the following resources

 1 or 2 people to do the web-design & graphics & layout the articles
 at least 3 (preferably 5 or 6) technical editors for reviewing &

 submissions, as well as providing answers to the FAQ column
 1 or 2 supervising editors, arbitrating between article ideas, checking
 readability etc.
 Walter
 Someone to run the FAQ column (possibly including taking the most worthy
 items from the news group in times of Q drought)

 I guess once we have it up and running we _could_ get advertising and all
 that evil nonsense if there was a need, but I would have thought with a

 committed volunteers we could manage quite nicely.

 If there is enough interest I am sure we could make this into a valuable
 resource, for the promulgation of D to the thirsty folks who are currently
 starting to drink the sand ( === .NET :)

 So, any interest? Please shout up if you think it's (i) a good idea, (ii)

 bad idea; (iii) you would like to volunteer for one of the roles. Also, if
 you think there are other features and/or roles, please speak up.

 I have pre-emptively registered djournal.net and thedjournal.com
 (djournal.com is taken) in case we have interest. (I can cancel these in

 next 72 hours if everyone thinks it is a bad idea, but it's not, is it ...
 ??? ;)

 Matthew

Jun 07 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Cool.

Well everybody, we've had the wink from Pavel and Big W, so I reckon it's a
goer.

Whilst I am pretty confident of my own capabilities in C/C++/Java, my
exposure to D is, at this point, much less than a lot of you guys, so I
don't think I could be an effective tech editor. However, I am more than
happy to be a supervising editor, and on this line I have some small
experience in editing and writing (masochists please visit
http://synesis.com.au/articles.html :).

We certainly need to staff out the other roles before we can think of
proceeding further. Walter, it would seem that you are more qualified than
most
(certainly me, at least) to know which news-group contributors are of a
"very-experienced" level (in so far as one can be, in such a new language),
so I wonder whether you could suggest people who could be the technical
editors. I am assuming Pavel Minayev would be one, along with the other
"experts" in the news-group.

As for all other roles, please let's have more volunteers. People who have
experience in writing would be useful, but it's not a prerequisite.

Let's wait and see a few days if we get volunteers (and more content
ideas?), before we have to get Walter to wield a coercive e-stick!

Matthew


"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:ads6dn$2agl$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I think it's a great idea!

 "Matthew Wilson" <matthewatd hotmail.com> wrote in message
 news:ads2mo$26r4$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Walter

 What I was thinking of was a fully-fledged magazine, probably


 which had the following features:

 A notes section (very small tips, one-liners) - 4-8 per issue
 A tips section (400-800 words) - 3-5 per issue
 An articles section (2000-4000 words) 2-3 per issue
 A "Word from Walter" column
 An FAQ column, whereby readers questions would be answered by the D

 Two more columns that would alternate (at a rate as deemed by the


 subject areas and the number of contributors) between a number of major


 subject areas. Areas would include Windows development, realtime, other
 platforms, performance, etc.

 To do this we would need the following resources

 1 or 2 people to do the web-design & graphics & layout the articles
 at least 3 (preferably 5 or 6) technical editors for reviewing &

 submissions, as well as providing answers to the FAQ column
 1 or 2 supervising editors, arbitrating between article ideas, checking
 readability etc.
 Walter
 Someone to run the FAQ column (possibly including taking the most worthy
 items from the news group in times of Q drought)

 I guess once we have it up and running we _could_ get advertising and


 that evil nonsense if there was a need, but I would have thought with a

 committed volunteers we could manage quite nicely.

 If there is enough interest I am sure we could make this into a valuable
 resource, for the promulgation of D to the thirsty folks who are


 starting to drink the sand ( === .NET :)

 So, any interest? Please shout up if you think it's (i) a good idea,


 a
 bad idea; (iii) you would like to volunteer for one of the roles. Also,


 you think there are other features and/or roles, please speak up.

 I have pre-emptively registered djournal.net and thedjournal.com
 (djournal.com is taken) in case we have interest. (I can cancel these in

 next 72 hours if everyone thinks it is a bad idea, but it's not, is it


 ??? ;)

 Matthew


Jun 07 2002
parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
news:ads8ii$2cqi$1 digitaldaemon.com...
  Walter, it would seem that you are more qualified than
 most (certainly me, at least) to know which news-group contributors are of

 "very-experienced" level (in so far as one can be, in such a new

A far better filter is "whoever is motivated to participate."
Jun 08 2002
next sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Sure, at least for contributions. I was meaning specifically for tech
editors, since they will need a fair amount of expertise in order to
determine the quality of submissions. Otherwise, it may fall to you ... ;)




"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:adscrg$2hru$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
 news:ads8ii$2cqi$1 digitaldaemon.com...
  Walter, it would seem that you are more qualified than
 most (certainly me, at least) to know which news-group contributors are


 a
 "very-experienced" level (in so far as one can be, in such a new

A far better filter is "whoever is motivated to participate."

Jun 08 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> writes:
| A far better filter is "whoever is motivated to participate."
|

I'm very interested in this and am "motivated to participate,"
however I'm as new as they come to programming.  How could I
possibly be of service?

Andrew
Jun 08 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
How's your web-site design ?

To be serious, I think someone who is relatively new can provide useful
input in a number of ways

- testing submissions for correctness. For example, if someone submitted a
one-page tip with code, you could provide validation of their technical
content. As well as providing a very useful function for the magazine, this
would also help you to raise your skills rapidly, so win-win.
- web-site preparation - you see I wasn't entirely kidding. :)
- helping with general dog-work, such as collating and managing the FAQ
- helping with the non-tech editing. This depends on how good your (human)
language skills are, and also on how much of a total pedant (like me :/ )
you are
- monitoring the news-group for useful items for FAQ, and for people whom
you think would be able to take a news-group item to a magazine tip with a
little additional effort

Do you fancy any of these? I would suggest you could certainly be a useful
tester and also, judging by your hawkish attentiveness on the news-group,
our FAQ editor. Can you give me a bit of background about yourself?


Matthew



"Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> wrote in message
news:adsqng$9hm$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 | A far better filter is "whoever is motivated to participate."
 |

 I'm very interested in this and am "motivated to participate,"
 however I'm as new as they come to programming.  How could I
 possibly be of service?

 Andrew

Jun 08 2002
next sibling parent reply "Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
news:adsub0$cuh$1 digitaldaemon.com...
| How's your web-site design ?
|
| To be serious, I think someone who is relatively new can
provide useful
| input in a number of ways
|
| - testing submissions for correctness. For example, if someone
submitted a
| one-page tip with code, you could provide validation of their
technical
| content. As well as providing a very useful function for the
magazine, this
| would also help you to raise your skills rapidly, so win-win.
| - web-site preparation - you see I wasn't entirely kidding. :)
| - helping with general dog-work, such as collating and managing
the FAQ
| - helping with the non-tech editing. This depends on how good
your (human)
| language skills are, and also on how much of a total pedant
(like me :/ )
| you are
| - monitoring the news-group for useful items for FAQ, and for
people whom
| you think would be able to take a news-group item to a magazine
tip with a
| little additional effort
|
| Do you fancy any of these? I would suggest you could certainly
be a useful
| tester and also, judging by your hawkish attentiveness on the
news-group,
| our FAQ editor. Can you give me a bit of background about
yourself?
| Matthew

I am very interested in testing.  When can I start?

I would also be interested in assisting to collect and managing
FAQs.

As far as web-site design and preparation is concerned, I have no
experience.

A US Marine by trade, I am a "part-time" computer tech with
roughly ten years
of experience building and upgrading pc's.  I am currently a
student at Temple
University working towards a Bachelors in Information Systems and
Technology.
Presently an active duty enlisted Marine of nine years, I will
return to the
Marine Corps a Commissioned Officer upon completing my studies at
Temple in
2004.

Andrew
Jun 08 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Andrew

That sounds cool. I reckon you can be our FAQ editor, and a tester.

We're getting lot's of volunteers. This may be easier than I thought. :)

"Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> wrote in message
news:adt132$g0i$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
 news:adsub0$cuh$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 | How's your web-site design ?
 |
 | To be serious, I think someone who is relatively new can
 provide useful
 | input in a number of ways
 |
 | - testing submissions for correctness. For example, if someone
 submitted a
 | one-page tip with code, you could provide validation of their
 technical
 | content. As well as providing a very useful function for the
 magazine, this
 | would also help you to raise your skills rapidly, so win-win.
 | - web-site preparation - you see I wasn't entirely kidding. :)
 | - helping with general dog-work, such as collating and managing
 the FAQ
 | - helping with the non-tech editing. This depends on how good
 your (human)
 | language skills are, and also on how much of a total pedant
 (like me :/ )
 | you are
 | - monitoring the news-group for useful items for FAQ, and for
 people whom
 | you think would be able to take a news-group item to a magazine
 tip with a
 | little additional effort
 |
 | Do you fancy any of these? I would suggest you could certainly
 be a useful
 | tester and also, judging by your hawkish attentiveness on the
 news-group,
 | our FAQ editor. Can you give me a bit of background about
 yourself?
 | Matthew

 I am very interested in testing.  When can I start?

 I would also be interested in assisting to collect and managing
 FAQs.

 As far as web-site design and preparation is concerned, I have no
 experience.

 A US Marine by trade, I am a "part-time" computer tech with
 roughly ten years
 of experience building and upgrading pc's.  I am currently a
 student at Temple
 University working towards a Bachelors in Information Systems and
 Technology.
 Presently an active duty enlisted Marine of nine years, I will
 return to the
 Marine Corps a Commissioned Officer upon completing my studies at
 Temple in
 2004.

 Andrew

Jun 08 2002
parent reply "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> writes:
 We're getting lot's of volunteers. This may be easier than I thought. :)

Hi. I'd also like to volunteer, but I don't know what I could considering that I don't really have lots of spare time (that's why I've stopped fooling around with D). I'm not good at web managing, but I have a website (http://carlos3.netfirms.com). Besides, I don't know how good I could be considering my english isn't so deep (spanish is my native language). I just got an idea! Maybe, when the whole project is set up, you could ask us (those who like D but have a different native language) to translate "The D Journal" to other languages. Maybe. I don't know how much I could help with the articles considering that I often have more doubts than answers. If you want to know a little background about me, then I know well QB, some VB (I've made some interesting stuff), C/C++ (pretty much ok), Java (learning), Delphi (learning), Euphoria (not much), D (wanna know more!). Again, I want to help, but you should give me some advice according to the information I've given.
Jun 08 2002
next sibling parent reply "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> writes:
 considering my english isn't so deep (spanish is my native language). I

 got an idea! Maybe, when the whole project is set up, you could ask us
 (those who like D but have a different native language) to translate "The

 Journal" to other languages. Maybe.

I hate to push it, but nobody has paid attention. Has anybody thought about what I said? Think about it: right now, D is limited to english speakers (or readers) because (logically) Digital Mars site is in english. I've tried to advertise D in my university, but it seems like no one cares because over here people don't talk english well, so they can't understand D specifications. But if there was any D page or something as big as "The D Journal" (apparently) in another language (spanish in this case), then more people would be interested in D. Walter says D is gaining momentum? Believe me: momentum will increase by doing that. Maybe I'm not the right one to do the translation (at least alone), but I would love to have something like that. And if I can help, I will. Oh, and there's something else: I think I understand english well enough, but my eyes hurt now after reading 90+ posts in english, tons of technical terms (even if they're programming related), slangs, typos, idiomatic expressions, etc. Consider that I'm used to it and think about people who: (i) don't understand, (ii) aren't used to, (iii) are too lazy to read all that (D specs, "D Journal", newsgroup...). I'm to stubborn, so I ask you: give me one good reason for not doing that. And "main goal: focusing in the articles" isn't a good reason.
Jun 11 2002
next sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> writes:
I would say, let's get The D Journal up and running for at least one issue,
and then I'll be more than happy to have people translate

Is that good enough?

:)

"Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> wrote in message
news:ae632c$l6v$2 digitaldaemon.com...
 considering my english isn't so deep (spanish is my native language). I

 got an idea! Maybe, when the whole project is set up, you could ask us
 (those who like D but have a different native language) to translate


 D
 Journal" to other languages. Maybe.

I hate to push it, but nobody has paid attention. Has anybody thought

 what I said?
 Think about it: right now, D is limited to english speakers (or readers)
 because (logically) Digital Mars site is in english. I've tried to

 D in my university, but it seems like no one cares because over here

 don't talk english well, so they can't understand D specifications. But if
 there was any D page or something as big as "The D Journal" (apparently)

 another language (spanish in this case), then more people would be
 interested in D. Walter says D is gaining momentum? Believe me: momentum
 will increase by doing that.
 Maybe I'm not the right one to do the translation (at least alone), but I
 would love to have something like that. And if I can help, I will. Oh, and
 there's something else: I think I understand english well enough, but my
 eyes hurt now after reading 90+ posts in english, tons of technical terms
 (even if they're programming related), slangs, typos, idiomatic

 etc. Consider that I'm used to it and think about people who: (i) don't
 understand, (ii) aren't used to, (iii) are too lazy to read all that (D
 specs, "D Journal", newsgroup...).
 I'm to stubborn, so I ask you: give me one good reason for not doing that.
 And "main goal: focusing in the articles" isn't a good reason.

Jun 11 2002
parent "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:ae664s$o1i$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I would say, let's get The D Journal up and running for at least one

 and then I'll be more than happy to have people translate

 Is that good enough?

 :)

let's say it is ;)
Jun 11 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply Patrick Down <pat codemoon.com> writes:
"Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> wrote in
news:ae632c$l6v$2 digitaldaemon.com: 
 
 I hate to push it, but nobody has paid attention. Has anybody thought
 about what I said?
 Think about it: right now, D is limited to english speakers (or
 readers) because (logically) Digital Mars site is in english. I've
 tried to advertise D in my university, but it seems like no one cares
 because over here people don't talk english well, so they can't
 understand D specifications. But if there was any D page or something

It's hard for me to tell how well it works but have you tried babelfish? http://babelfish.altavista.com/
Jun 11 2002
next sibling parent reply "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> writes:
 It's hard for me to tell how well it works but have you tried babelfish?

 http://babelfish.altavista.com/

automatic translators s*ck (sorry for the word) :(
Jun 11 2002
parent reply Patrick Down <pat codemoon.com> writes:
"Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> wrote in news:ae6ckl$ubl$1 digitaldaemon.com:

 It's hard for me to tell how well it works but have you tried babelfish?

 http://babelfish.altavista.com/

automatic translators s*ck (sorry for the word) :(

No problem. After playing with it a little more I can say it s*cks translating stuff to english too. :) If you wanted to do a bulk translation of the D manual, is it easier to do it all by hand or would it be easier to run it through one of these tools, save the results, and then fix the translation.
Jun 12 2002
parent "Roberto Mariottini" <rmariottini lycosmail.com> writes:
"Patrick Down" <pat codemoon.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:Xns922B76ED3FFE6patcodemooncom 63.105.9.61...
 "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> wrote in

 automatic translators s*ck (sorry for the word) :(


Automatic translator are FAR to produce sensible output.
 No problem. After playing with it a little more
 I can say it s*cks translating stuff to english too. :)

 If you wanted to do a bulk translation of the D manual,
 is it easier to do it all by hand or would it be easier
 to run it through one of these tools, save the results,
 and then fix the translation.

The easiest way I've found is reading an english paper and speaking in yuor language in a microphone with a speech recognision system. The result is not so good, you need to revise it anyway, but it's the better and quicker method I've found. Once you're used to it, you need very little revision work. Ciao
Jun 13 2002
prev sibling parent "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> writes:
Wow that seems to do a pretty darn good job.

"Code of the Nerds" ?!!?

Sean

"Patrick Down" <pat codemoon.com> wrote in message
news:Xns922AD60129187patcodemooncom 63.105.9.61...
 "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> wrote in
 news:ae632c$l6v$2 digitaldaemon.com:
 I hate to push it, but nobody has paid attention. Has anybody thought
 about what I said?
 Think about it: right now, D is limited to english speakers (or
 readers) because (logically) Digital Mars site is in english. I've
 tried to advertise D in my university, but it seems like no one cares
 because over here people don't talk english well, so they can't
 understand D specifications. But if there was any D page or something

It's hard for me to tell how well it works but have you tried babelfish? http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Jun 11 2002
prev sibling parent reply andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
I totally agree, however it will take someone such as you to step up and 
provide the service.  I'm taking a Spanish class but it will be a few 
years before I feel qualified.  Generally this only gets done when there 
is someone qualified who feels strongly enough about it to do it. 
Complaining about it will do little, Translate something.  I've little 
doubt that Walter or whomever will put it up.  Start with *something* 
and move on from there.  Maybe someone will read that come upon the 
english only page and translate that.

-Andy


 
 
 I hate to push it, but nobody has paid attention. Has anybody thought about
 what I said?
 Think about it: right now, D is limited to english speakers (or readers)
 because (logically) Digital Mars site is in english. I've tried to advertise
 D in my university, but it seems like no one cares because over here people
 don't talk english well, so they can't understand D specifications. But if
 there was any D page or something as big as "The D Journal" (apparently) in
 another language (spanish in this case), then more people would be
 interested in D. Walter says D is gaining momentum? Believe me: momentum
 will increase by doing that.
 Maybe I'm not the right one to do the translation (at least alone), but I
 would love to have something like that. And if I can help, I will. Oh, and
 there's something else: I think I understand english well enough, but my
 eyes hurt now after reading 90+ posts in english, tons of technical terms
 (even if they're programming related), slangs, typos, idiomatic expressions,
 etc. Consider that I'm used to it and think about people who: (i) don't
 understand, (ii) aren't used to, (iii) are too lazy to read all that (D
 specs, "D Journal", newsgroup...).
 I'm to stubborn, so I ask you: give me one good reason for not doing that.
 And "main goal: focusing in the articles" isn't a good reason.
 
 

Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> writes:
"andy" <acoliver apache.org> escribió en el mensaje
news:3D06B113.5060500 apache.org...
 I totally agree, however it will take someone such as you to step up and
 provide the service.  I'm taking a Spanish class but it will be a few
 years before I feel qualified.  Generally this only gets done when there
 is someone qualified who feels strongly enough about it to do it.
 Complaining about it will do little, Translate something.  I've little
 doubt that Walter or whomever will put it up.  Start with *something*
 and move on from there.  Maybe someone will read that come upon the
 english only page and translate that.

 -Andy

You're right. I've noticed that a lot in books. Good computers books are originally written in english and a couple of years later translated in Mexico. There're 2 problems by that: 1. They're often translated by people who don't know the subject. Besides, there're some "localization" problems that don't fit here. 2. Two years are too much time! About doing something, I had thought about. I'll try to make some time and translate some of Walter's pages and put them in my site so they will become available for more people (and will get more hits ;) ). What comforts me is that you people have taken this well. Thanks.
Jun 11 2002
parent reply andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
 
 You're right. I've noticed that a lot in books. Good computers books are
 originally written in english and a couple of years later translated in
 Mexico. There're 2 problems by that:
 1. They're often translated by people who don't know the subject. Besides,
 there're some "localization" problems that don't fit here.
 2. Two years are too much time!
 About doing something, I had thought about. I'll try to make some time and
 translate some of Walter's pages and put them in my site so they will become
 available for more people (and will get more hits ;) ).
 
 What comforts me is that you people have taken this well. Thanks.
 
 

My advice is don't make time to translate Walter's pages.. Just do one. Find time and do one. Start with the most important page. Later, find time to do another maybe. As for taking it well, I've been begging people to translate my project pages (http://jakarta.apache.org/poi). I'm thinking it will be a kind of project for helping me with the spanish class I'm taking. People will be more likely to step forward and tell me "damn, you're wrong it should say X" than "find time" to translate them all. Most projects that seek some kind of wide acceptance would gladly welcome translations. Anyhow, generally I think the problem on most project is: 1. Those who need the translations enough to "find time" aren't qualfied (by definition) to perform them 2. Those who are qualified to translate them, are not motivated enough to do it. -Andy
Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Robert W. Cunningham" <rcunning acm.org> writes:
andy wrote:

 You're right. I've noticed that a lot in books. Good computers books are
 originally written in english and a couple of years later translated in
 Mexico. There're 2 problems by that:
 1. They're often translated by people who don't know the subject. Besides,
 there're some "localization" problems that don't fit here.
 2. Two years are too much time!
 About doing something, I had thought about. I'll try to make some time and
 translate some of Walter's pages and put them in my site so they will become
 available for more people (and will get more hits ;) ).

 What comforts me is that you people have taken this well. Thanks.

My advice is don't make time to translate Walter's pages.. Just do one. Find time and do one. Start with the most important page. Later, find time to do another maybe. As for taking it well, I've been begging people to translate my project pages (http://jakarta.apache.org/poi). I'm thinking it will be a kind of project for helping me with the spanish class I'm taking. People will be more likely to step forward and tell me "damn, you're wrong it should say X" than "find time" to translate them all. Most projects that seek some kind of wide acceptance would gladly welcome translations. Anyhow, generally I think the problem on most project is: 1. Those who need the translations enough to "find time" aren't qualfied (by definition) to perform them 2. Those who are qualified to translate them, are not motivated enough to do it. -Andy

There is a "middle way": Get a cheesy translation done any way you can, then get a native user to polish off the rough edges. I've done this for the docs for several small PalmOS apps and Linux PDA tools from Japan. The docs were initially in terrible "Japglish", but with the basic documentation form already in place, and with the program in my hand, I was able to quickly whip the docs into decent English. And I do mean quickly: About an hour per page, on average. It was fun to do, and the positive feedback kept my ego stroked for months. And I also got some serious Geek Cred for it. -BobC
Jun 11 2002
next sibling parent reply "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> writes:
"Robert W. Cunningham" <rcunning acm.org> escribió en el mensaje
news:3D06C8AF.25AB237F acm.org...
 My advice is don't make time to translate Walter's pages..  Just do one.
    Find time and do one.  Start with the most important page.  Later,
 find time to do another maybe.


 -Andy

There is a "middle way": Get a cheesy translation done any way you can,

 a native user to polish off the rough edges.

 I've done this for the docs for several small PalmOS apps and Linux PDA

 from Japan.  The docs were initially in terrible "Japglish", but with the

 documentation form already in place, and with the program in my hand, I

 to quickly whip the docs into decent English.  And I do mean quickly:

 hour per page, on average.  It was fun to do, and the positive feedback

 ego stroked for months.

 And I also got some serious Geek Cred for it.


 -BobC

I like this idea
Jun 11 2002
parent andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
 
 
 I like this idea
 
 

Me too. Oddly, I started doing it last night for jakarta.apache.org/poi. We'll see if it works. I'm doing it to learn Spanish. Since I know the content well, but not the language it might work. -Andy
Jun 12 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> writes:
Sounds like a good plan.

Bagsy not doing either half of it ... :)

"Robert W. Cunningham" <rcunning acm.org> wrote in message
news:3D06C8AF.25AB237F acm.org...
 andy wrote:

 You're right. I've noticed that a lot in books. Good computers books



 originally written in english and a couple of years later translated



 Mexico. There're 2 problems by that:
 1. They're often translated by people who don't know the subject.



 there're some "localization" problems that don't fit here.
 2. Two years are too much time!
 About doing something, I had thought about. I'll try to make some time



 translate some of Walter's pages and put them in my site so they will



 available for more people (and will get more hits ;) ).

 What comforts me is that you people have taken this well. Thanks.

My advice is don't make time to translate Walter's pages.. Just do one. Find time and do one. Start with the most important page. Later, find time to do another maybe. As for taking it well, I've been begging people to translate my project pages (http://jakarta.apache.org/poi). I'm thinking it will be a kind of project for helping me with the spanish class I'm taking. People will be more likely to step forward and tell me "damn, you're wrong it should say X" than "find time" to translate them all. Most projects that seek some kind of wide acceptance would gladly welcome


 Anyhow, generally I think the problem on most project is:

 1. Those who need the translations enough to "find time" aren't qualfied
   (by definition) to perform them

 2. Those who are qualified to translate them, are not motivated enough
 to do it.

 -Andy

There is a "middle way": Get a cheesy translation done any way you can,

 a native user to polish off the rough edges.

 I've done this for the docs for several small PalmOS apps and Linux PDA

 from Japan.  The docs were initially in terrible "Japglish", but with the

 documentation form already in place, and with the program in my hand, I

 to quickly whip the docs into decent English.  And I do mean quickly:

 hour per page, on average.  It was fun to do, and the positive feedback

 ego stroked for months.

 And I also got some serious Geek Cred for it.


 -BobC

Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> writes:
Does make me wonder whether we should maintain a list of potential
translators

At the moment I am working with a Czech and an American, so that's two more
languages. He he

"Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> wrote in message
news:ae6hnj$13hr$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Sounds like a good plan.

 Bagsy not doing either half of it ... :)

 "Robert W. Cunningham" <rcunning acm.org> wrote in message
 news:3D06C8AF.25AB237F acm.org...
 andy wrote:

 You're right. I've noticed that a lot in books. Good computers books



 originally written in english and a couple of years later translated



 Mexico. There're 2 problems by that:
 1. They're often translated by people who don't know the subject.



 there're some "localization" problems that don't fit here.
 2. Two years are too much time!
 About doing something, I had thought about. I'll try to make some




 and
 translate some of Walter's pages and put them in my site so they




 become
 available for more people (and will get more hits ;) ).

 What comforts me is that you people have taken this well. Thanks.

My advice is don't make time to translate Walter's pages.. Just do



    Find time and do one.  Start with the most important page.  Later,
 find time to do another maybe.

 As for taking it well, I've been begging people to translate my



 pages (http://jakarta.apache.org/poi).  I'm thinking it will be a kind
 of project for helping me with the spanish class I'm taking.  People
 will be more likely to step forward and tell me "damn, you're wrong it
 should say X" than "find time" to translate them all.  Most projects
 that seek some kind of wide acceptance would gladly welcome


 Anyhow, generally I think the problem on most project is:

 1. Those who need the translations enough to "find time" aren't



   (by definition) to perform them

 2. Those who are qualified to translate them, are not motivated enough
 to do it.

 -Andy

There is a "middle way": Get a cheesy translation done any way you can,

 a native user to polish off the rough edges.

 I've done this for the docs for several small PalmOS apps and Linux PDA

 from Japan.  The docs were initially in terrible "Japglish", but with


 basic
 documentation form already in place, and with the program in my hand, I

 to quickly whip the docs into decent English.  And I do mean quickly:

 hour per page, on average.  It was fun to do, and the positive feedback

 ego stroked for months.

 And I also got some serious Geek Cred for it.


 -BobC


Jun 11 2002
next sibling parent "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> wrote in message
news:ae6jdg$156s$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 Does make me wonder whether we should maintain a list of potential
 translators

 At the moment I am working with a Czech and an American, so that's two

 languages. He he

I could translate articles to Russian.
Jun 12 2002
prev sibling parent andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
Its not our fault the dang Brits can't learn to speak proper 'merican.

Matthew Wilson wrote:
 Does make me wonder whether we should maintain a list of potential
 translators
 
 At the moment I am working with a Czech and an American, so that's two more
 languages. He he
 
 "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> wrote in message
 news:ae6hnj$13hr$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 
Sounds like a good plan.

Bagsy not doing either half of it ... :)

"Robert W. Cunningham" <rcunning acm.org> wrote in message
news:3D06C8AF.25AB237F acm.org...

andy wrote:


You're right. I've noticed that a lot in books. Good computers books



originally written in english and a couple of years later translated



Mexico. There're 2 problems by that:
1. They're often translated by people who don't know the subject.



there're some "localization" problems that don't fit here.
2. Two years are too much time!
About doing something, I had thought about. I'll try to make some




and

translate some of Walter's pages and put them in my site so they




become

available for more people (and will get more hits ;) ).

What comforts me is that you people have taken this well. Thanks.

My advice is don't make time to translate Walter's pages.. Just do



   Find time and do one.  Start with the most important page.  Later,
find time to do another maybe.

As for taking it well, I've been begging people to translate my



pages (http://jakarta.apache.org/poi).  I'm thinking it will be a kind
of project for helping me with the spanish class I'm taking.  People
will be more likely to step forward and tell me "damn, you're wrong it
should say X" than "find time" to translate them all.  Most projects
that seek some kind of wide acceptance would gladly welcome


Anyhow, generally I think the problem on most project is:

1. Those who need the translations enough to "find time" aren't



  (by definition) to perform them

2. Those who are qualified to translate them, are not motivated enough
to do it.

-Andy

There is a "middle way": Get a cheesy translation done any way you can,

then get
a native user to polish off the rough edges.

I've done this for the docs for several small PalmOS apps and Linux PDA

tools
from Japan.  The docs were initially in terrible "Japglish", but with


basic

documentation form already in place, and with the program in my hand, I

was able
to quickly whip the docs into decent English.  And I do mean quickly:

About an
hour per page, on average.  It was fun to do, and the positive feedback

kept my
ego stroked for months.

And I also got some serious Geek Cred for it.


-BobC



Jun 12 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> wrote in message
news:adugli$1u1r$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 considering my english isn't so deep (spanish is my native language). I

 got an idea! Maybe, when the whole project is set up, you could ask us
 (those who like D but have a different native language) to translate "The

 Journal" to other languages. Maybe.

Seems like a good idea. By the way, D reference is also worth translating.
Jun 12 2002
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:ae6v46$1hsa$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Seems like a good idea. By the way, D reference is also worth translating.

I think it's great that y'all are willing to do translations. Keep in mind, though that the docs change as I fix errors, rewrite turgid passages, and make improvements. I've started putting date-last-modifieds at the top of the pages, so that at least it's easy to tell which pages are out of date. The html of the pages is pretty straightforward, so diff will be useful in finding the exact changes. I don't use any of those wretched html editors.
Jun 12 2002
prev sibling parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
This newsgroup would be a great source of material for the magazine.

"Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
news:adsub0$cuh$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 - monitoring the news-group for useful items for FAQ, and for people whom
 you think would be able to take a news-group item to a magazine tip with a
 little additional effort

Jun 08 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
I don't know what I'd contribute, site design maybe or general proof
reading, but I think it is a great idea...

Alix Pexton...

 So, any interest? Please shout up if you think it's (i) a good idea, (ii)

 bad idea; (iii) you would like to volunteer for one of the roles. Also,

 you think there are other features and/or roles, please speak up.

Jun 08 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Alix

Site design sounds great (as does proof reading). Are you experienced in
this? Do you have any sites we can take a look at? I would think we'd want
to have a similar (though, of course, superior) site to the cmp sites
(wdj.com, cuj.com, etc.) though without all the advertising clutter.

Can you tell me more about yourself technically, if you will? (You can
always talk to me off-group, if you wish)

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c20ee9$4d0d95e0$ca2c7bd5 jpswm...
 I don't know what I'd contribute, site design maybe or general proof
 reading, but I think it is a great idea...

 Alix Pexton...

 So, any interest? Please shout up if you think it's (i) a good idea,


 a
 bad idea; (iii) you would like to volunteer for one of the roles. Also,

 you think there are other features and/or roles, please speak up.


Jun 08 2002
next sibling parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 I would think we'd want
 to have a similar (though, of course, superior) site to the cmp sites
 (wdj.com, cuj.com, etc.) though without all the advertising clutter.

I just had a look, as I'd never heard of either site before, and I'd say I'm up to the challenge... I'll see what I can come up with in an afternoon or two... Alix Pexton...
Jun 08 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Cool.

Don't kill yourself to get something immediate, as we're still in the
process of garnering enough support to get this baby off the ground. Early
signs are encouraging though.

Thanks

Matthew



"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c20ef4$dcb5b460$ca2c7bd5 jpswm...
 I would think we'd want
 to have a similar (though, of course, superior) site to the cmp sites
 (wdj.com, cuj.com, etc.) though without all the advertising clutter.

I just had a look, as I'd never heard of either site before, and I'd say I'm up to the challenge... I'll see what I can come up with in an afternoon or two... Alix Pexton...

Jun 08 2002
parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 Don't kill yourself to get something immediate, as we're still in the
 process of garnering enough support to get this baby off the ground.

 signs are encouraging though.

I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal might look like... Alix Pexton...
Jun 10 2002
next sibling parent reply andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
Alix Pexton wrote:
Don't kill yourself to get something immediate, as we're still in the
process of garnering enough support to get this baby off the ground.

Early
signs are encouraging though.

I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal might look like... Alix Pexton...

just a suggestion. Investigate using this: www.krysalis.org/centipede It would provide you with a convienient framework for writing the content in XML and seperating the style/html from the action content. The output can statically generate in HTML. -Andy
Jun 10 2002
parent "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 just a suggestion.  Investigate using this:  www.krysalis.org/centipede
 
 It would provide you with a convienient framework for writing the 
 content in XML and seperating the style/html from the action content.
 The output can statically generate in HTML.

I have a plan, that involves writing server scripts that read .rdf files to generate each issue, and also having old issues in zip archives... I once did something similar in my university days, all the pages were generated dynamically from simple shell scripts... When we know what kind of server the journal will be running on we can make decisions about how content will be stored, I'm a great advocate of XML, I use it all the time (I'm currently working on a DOM implementation in D), so we'll see... Keep the comments flowing... Alix Pexton...
Jun 10 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> writes:
 I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal
 might look like...

 Alix Pexton...

I like it. IMHO, I would prefer the Code section not to be inside a box.
Jun 10 2002
parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 I like it. IMHO, I would prefer the Code section not to be inside a box.

It doesn't have to be in a box, it's just one line of css, but I think that something should be done to make it absolutely clear what is code and what isn't. Most magazines do something to highlight segments of code, no matter how short, ant it does help readability, but then so does the syntax highlighting... I foresee that the journal will definitely be designed by committee... Alix Pexton...
Jun 10 2002
next sibling parent "Carlos" <carlos8294 msn.com> writes:
"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> escribió en el mensaje
news:01c210a9$d79b6cc0$e1257ad5 jpswm...
 I like it. IMHO, I would prefer the Code section not to be inside a box.

It doesn't have to be in a box, it's just one line of css, but I think

 something should be done to make it absolutely clear what is code and what
 isn't. Most magazines do something to highlight segments of code, no

 how short, ant it does help readability, but then so does the syntax
 highlighting...

 I foresee that the journal will definitely be designed by committee...

 Alix Pexton...

Jun 10 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> writes:
I like the box

Style will have to evolve over the next couple of months, but I think we
have a good base to build on here.

I'm going to knock up a fictional first magazine content list, and then if
you could lay that out we could see how a full magazine would look in HTML
pages, in order to get a more informed opinion from everyone.

Matthew

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c210a9$d79b6cc0$e1257ad5 jpswm...
 I like it. IMHO, I would prefer the Code section not to be inside a box.

It doesn't have to be in a box, it's just one line of css, but I think

 something should be done to make it absolutely clear what is code and what
 isn't. Most magazines do something to highlight segments of code, no

 how short, ant it does help readability, but then so does the syntax
 highlighting...

 I foresee that the journal will definitely be designed by committee...

 Alix Pexton...

Jun 10 2002
parent "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 I'm going to knock up a fictional first magazine content list, and then

 you could lay that out we could see how a full magazine would look in

 pages, in order to get a more informed opinion from everyone.

OK... Alix Pexton...
Jun 11 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> writes:
Alix

This looks really good. It looks like we may be up and running sooner than I
first thought. I'll have to start organising the contributors soon.

Are we to take it that you've kind of volunteered yourself as the
layout/presentation guy?

Matthew

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...
 Don't kill yourself to get something immediate, as we're still in the
 process of garnering enough support to get this baby off the ground.

 signs are encouraging though.

I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal might look like... Alix Pexton...

Jun 10 2002
parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 This looks really good. It looks like we may be up and running sooner

 first thought. I'll have to start organising the contributors soon.

How soon depends on where I suppose, do we have a server yet, or just the domains???
 Are we to take it that you've kind of volunteered yourself as the
 layout/presentation guy?

Oh go on then, you talked me into it, however, I'm on holiday for 5 weeks starting July 8th (I think) and will be thoroughly incommunicado, I'll do as much as I can before I go, and if I find my self at a loose end, then while I'm away to (I'm sure I have a laptop somewhere)... Alix Pexton...
Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Alix

My original intention is that we have a really professional magazine right
from the off, so was anticipating perhaps a September first edition.

If that is the case, then perhaps we can get you to work on layout of a stub
version of the magazine before you go, and I can fill in the real content if
you don't get back onboard in time for our first deployment

Sound ok?

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c2114e$4a71f9e0$834a7ad5 jpswm...
 This looks really good. It looks like we may be up and running sooner

 first thought. I'll have to start organising the contributors soon.

How soon depends on where I suppose, do we have a server yet, or just the domains???
 Are we to take it that you've kind of volunteered yourself as the
 layout/presentation guy?

Oh go on then, you talked me into it, however, I'm on holiday for 5 weeks starting July 8th (I think) and will be thoroughly incommunicado, I'll do as much as I can before I go, and if I find my self at a loose end, then while I'm away to (I'm sure I have a laptop somewhere)... Alix Pexton...

Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 My original intention is that we have a really professional magazine

 from the off, so was anticipating perhaps a September first edition.

I think I'm back around August the 14, so that's two weeks to polish the first edition after I get back...
 If that is the case, then perhaps we can get you to work on layout of a

 version of the magazine before you go, and I can fill in the real content

 you don't get back onboard in time for our first deployment

I was thinking of writing a XSLT page that turned XML articles and abstracts (and an RDF index) into an issue with the help of a D app, but I'm fairly new to XSLT and writing the app is still a bit daunting... Making a HTML page with comment in that say !-- Articles and stuff go here -- is easy, those comments are in the example I did, does that make it a stub???
 Sound ok?

In our new found trend toward multilingoism (yes I did just make that word up to mean "multiple languages"), I shall use a term common in my local tongue... Aye... Alix Pexton...
Jun 12 2002
next sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
If you're a Yorkie, then we may be brothers!

I'm only down-under for the sun-tan.

Tha mun let me nerrh whe thas frum, lad

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c21205$5ea1e580$52bc7ad5 jpswm...
 My original intention is that we have a really professional magazine

 from the off, so was anticipating perhaps a September first edition.

I think I'm back around August the 14, so that's two weeks to polish the first edition after I get back...
 If that is the case, then perhaps we can get you to work on layout of a

 version of the magazine before you go, and I can fill in the real


 if
 you don't get back onboard in time for our first deployment

I was thinking of writing a XSLT page that turned XML articles and abstracts (and an RDF index) into an issue with the help of a D app, but I'm fairly new to XSLT and writing the app is still a bit daunting... Making a HTML page with comment in that say !-- Articles and stuff go here -- is easy, those comments are in the example I did, does that make it a stub???
 Sound ok?

In our new found trend toward multilingoism (yes I did just make that word up to mean "multiple languages"), I shall use a term common in my local tongue... Aye... Alix Pexton...

Jun 12 2002
parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 Tha mun let me nerrh whe thas frum, lad

'Baat a thums bredth from't York on't map... Where the Warf joins the Ouse... Alix Pexton...
Jun 12 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Well the daft apeth, tha's from wrong paert

Tha mun be frum reet on't Pennine's t'get any mind 'o me

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c2120b$dc106f40$52bc7ad5 jpswm...
 Tha mun let me nerrh whe thas frum, lad

'Baat a thums bredth from't York on't map... Where the Warf joins the Ouse... Alix Pexton...

Jun 12 2002
parent "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 Well the daft apeth, tha's from wrong paert
 
 Tha mun be frum reet on't Pennine's t'get any mind 'o me

Aa yoosd't live in Bradford... Alix Pexton...
Jun 12 2002
prev sibling parent reply andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
 
 I was thinking of writing a XSLT page that turned XML articles and
 abstracts (and an RDF index) into an issue with the help of a D app, but
 I'm fairly new to XSLT and writing the app is still a bit daunting...
 

Then don't write it. Steal it. krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede
 Making a HTML page with comment in that say !-- Articles and stuff go here
 -- is easy, those comments are in the example I did, does that make it a
 stub???
 

I don't hand code HTML with content. My mind doesn't work this way. I either worry about the page lining up right or I worry about the content. I can't do both in the same page. I author all documentation in XML, and rarely if ever write the XSLT because it's already been written. (once....and now it works for *every* page). Its well worth doing. Granted, I think working in plain text for the moment and getting actual content is more important. I also think that Walter (or perhaps Jan) should set up a D wiki.
 
Sound ok?

In our new found trend toward multilingoism (yes I did just make that word up to mean "multiple languages"), I shall use a term common in my local tongue... Aye... Alix Pexton...

Jun 12 2002
parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
andy <acoliver apache.org> wrote in article
<3D07536F.2080602 apache.org>...
 I was thinking of writing a XSLT page that turned XML articles and
 abstracts (and an RDF index) into an issue with the help of a D app,


 I'm fairly new to XSLT and writing the app is still a bit daunting...

Then don't write it. Steal it. krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede

I don't necessarily have a say in who's web server is used for the journal, if it is apache, then that'll be easy, else another solution would be needed. Anyway, writing apps for serving the journal is a good incentive for implementing XML support in D (which I've already started).
 Making a HTML page with comment in that say !-- Articles and stuff go


 -- is easy, those comments are in the example I did, does that make it


 stub???


 I don't hand code HTML with content.  My mind doesn't work this way.

When I first started using HTML, you didn't really have a choice...
 I either worry about the page lining up right or I worry about the 
 content.  I can't do both in the same page.  I author all documentation 
 in XML, and rarely if ever write the XSLT because it's already been 
 written.  (once....and now it works for *every* page).  Its well worth 
 doing.

That's the whole point, you still have to do it once, and for the journal, that once is just coming up...
 Granted, I think working in plain text for the moment and 
 getting actual content is more important.

My goal for assembling the journal pages has three elements, the frame, the content and the index. The frame is XSLT, the content is XML and the index is RDF, there's some CSS in there too, but that isn't dynamic... Each article has two major parts, the actual article, and an abstract. Each issue is defined as a list of articles in an RDF file which is used to assemble the abstracts into a front page for the issue (a dynamic sort of meta-article) which is passed through the XSLT to generate the front page... There may also be lots of other RDF's flying around to allow semi-automatic cross-referencing of articles, and better searching of the archives, but that is way, way down the line... I hope that all made sense and stuff... Alix Pexton...
Jun 12 2002
parent "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> writes:
All sounds way over my poor web-neophyte head.

Sounds cool though. Can't wait (and don't have to ...)


"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c21238$20fe4b00$769c7ad5 jpswm...
 andy <acoliver apache.org> wrote in article
 <3D07536F.2080602 apache.org>...
 I was thinking of writing a XSLT page that turned XML articles and
 abstracts (and an RDF index) into an issue with the help of a D app,


 I'm fairly new to XSLT and writing the app is still a bit daunting...

Then don't write it. Steal it. krysalis.sourceforge.net/centipede

I don't necessarily have a say in who's web server is used for the

 if it is apache, then that'll be easy, else another solution would be
 needed.

 Anyway, writing apps for serving the journal is a good incentive for
 implementing XML support in D (which I've already started).

 Making a HTML page with comment in that say !-- Articles and stuff go


 -- is easy, those comments are in the example I did, does that make it


 stub???


 I don't hand code HTML with content.  My mind doesn't work this way.

When I first started using HTML, you didn't really have a choice...
 I either worry about the page lining up right or I worry about the
 content.  I can't do both in the same page.  I author all documentation
 in XML, and rarely if ever write the XSLT because it's already been
 written.  (once....and now it works for *every* page).  Its well worth
 doing.

That's the whole point, you still have to do it once, and for the journal, that once is just coming up...
 Granted, I think working in plain text for the moment and
 getting actual content is more important.

My goal for assembling the journal pages has three elements, the frame,

 content and the index. The frame is XSLT, the content is XML and the index
 is RDF, there's some CSS in there too, but that isn't dynamic...

 Each article has two major parts, the actual article, and an abstract.

 issue is defined as a list of articles in an RDF file which is used to
 assemble the abstracts into a front page for the issue (a dynamic sort of
 meta-article) which is passed through the XSLT to generate the front
 page...

 There may also be lots of other RDF's flying around to allow

 cross-referencing of articles, and better searching of the archives, but
 that is way, way down the line...

 I hope that all made sense and stuff...

 Alix Pexton...

Jun 12 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
What about a D tip of the week/day in the right hand bottom corner. I could
even just be a random one from some database.

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...
 Don't kill yourself to get something immediate, as we're still in the
 process of garnering enough support to get this baby off the ground.

 signs are encouraging though.

I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal might look like... Alix Pexton...

Jun 10 2002
parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 What about a D tip of the week/day in the right hand bottom corner. I

 even just be a random one from some database.

Bottom right is fine with me, someone start writing tips... Alix Pexton...
Jun 13 2002
next sibling parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
Ok, but how should I present them? In a text file which is read by some CGI
script or something? Anyway I'll see what I can do.



"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c21305$6716b1e0$90ac7ad5 jpswm...
 What about a D tip of the week/day in the right hand bottom corner. I

 even just be a random one from some database.

Bottom right is fine with me, someone start writing tips... Alix Pexton...

Jun 13 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <matthew thedjournal.com> writes:
We'll get some formatting standards up in the near future, but for now just
make it a text file.


"anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> wrote in message
news:aebi7t$1k0i$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Ok, but how should I present them? In a text file which is read by some

 script or something? Anyway I'll see what I can do.



 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c21305$6716b1e0$90ac7ad5 jpswm...
 What about a D tip of the week/day in the right hand bottom corner. I

 even just be a random one from some database.

Bottom right is fine with me, someone start writing tips... Alix Pexton...


Jun 13 2002
parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
I just punched something up in a few minutes (it's less then a page), just
to get the brains rolling. I'll add some more when I get some more ideas.
And if anyone else has some ideas I'll add them to the list (name included).
<H1> Represents headers/Titles and <I> is for the author. I'm sure people
can think of much better ones, and I tried to be as broad as I could.


I'd like some really advanced stuff in there as well as very basic.


"Matthew Wilson" <matthew thedjournal.com> wrote in message
news:aebiid$1k6f$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 We'll get some formatting standards up in the near future, but for now

 make it a text file.


 "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> wrote in message
 news:aebi7t$1k0i$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Ok, but how should I present them? In a text file which is read by some

 script or something? Anyway I'll see what I can do.



 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c21305$6716b1e0$90ac7ad5 jpswm...
 What about a D tip of the week/day in the right hand bottom corner.




 could
 even just be a random one from some database.

Bottom right is fine with me, someone start writing tips... Alix Pexton...



Jun 13 2002
parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
There was a minor mistake in the last one which I just fix. There are
probably other errors. As I said I just did it real quickly because I don't
have much time at the moment.
Jun 13 2002
parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
Actually, I should have really tested the code ;)

Next time I post I'll start a new thread.


"anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> wrote in message
news:aeblur$1ngm$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 There was a minor mistake in the last one which I just fix. There are
 probably other errors. As I said I just did it real quickly because I

 have much time at the moment.

Jun 13 2002
parent reply Jonathan Andrew <jon ece.arizona.edu> writes:
I like it!
I think tips like these are both helpful and give newbies like me
a gentle look at some of the special features of D. Can't wait
to see what the D Journal turns into! Maybe a bit late in the
game, but I would love to help in any capacity I can, if there
is anything you need help with!
-Jon
Jun 13 2002
parent "Matthew Wilson" <matthew thedjournal.com> writes:
So long as you drop me a line (editor thedjournal.com), preferably with a
very succinct resume (just your languages / experience level, and any
writing experience, if any) and your preferred capacity, I'm sure we'll be
able to make use of you.

Thanks for offering

:)

Matthew



"Jonathan Andrew" <jon ece.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:3D0980DA.4080703 ece.arizona.edu...
 I like it!
 I think tips like these are both helpful and give newbies like me
 a gentle look at some of the special features of D. Can't wait
 to see what the D Journal turns into! Maybe a bit late in the
 game, but I would love to help in any capacity I can, if there
 is anything you need help with!
 -Jon

Jun 13 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c21305$6716b1e0$90ac7ad5 jpswm...
 What about a D tip of the week/day in the right hand bottom corner. I

 even just be a random one from some database.

Bottom right is fine with me, someone start writing tips...

There's a bunch already in the c to d and c++ to d pages!
Jun 14 2002
parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
Ok, if it's alright with you I'll append them to the file (under the author
Walter). But I do think it may be duplication of information.

"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:aee419$1617$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c21305$6716b1e0$90ac7ad5 jpswm...
 What about a D tip of the week/day in the right hand bottom corner. I

 even just be a random one from some database.

Bottom right is fine with me, someone start writing tips...

There's a bunch already in the c to d and c++ to d pages!

Jun 14 2002
parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Just stuff them all in. I'll go through all the submissions (from all
sources) as part of collating each issue, so don't worry too much about that
now

Better, in these early stages, to get too much content rather than too
little


"anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> wrote in message
news:aee89l$1a0e$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Ok, if it's alright with you I'll append them to the file (under the

 Walter). But I do think it may be duplication of information.

 "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:aee419$1617$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c21305$6716b1e0$90ac7ad5 jpswm...
 What about a D tip of the week/day in the right hand bottom corner.




 could
 even just be a random one from some database.

Bottom right is fine with me, someone start writing tips...

There's a bunch already in the c to d and c++ to d pages!


Jun 14 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...

 I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal
 might look like...

Looks great! I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =) By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)
Jun 10 2002
next sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> writes:
Ouch!

That's going to start a war

I am not convinced we need a coding standard for the site, though.
Personally I go for the Allman style

    if(x)
    {
        y;
    }

mainly because it lends clarity when the conditional expression is complex.
However, I have learnt over the years - even in situtations where I've
written the coding standards! - that people will not be forced away from
their own style.

I would much prefer that we encourage contributions as much as possible, and
let the style evolve collaboratively. Also, it can be good mental exercise
to read in another style every now and then.

 ... "Yeah, and it came to pass that the wisdom of "my" style fell upon
thee!"

Matthew

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:ae3u73$1ell$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...

 I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal
 might look like...

Looks great! I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =) By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)

Jun 10 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
Pavel Minayev wrote:
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...
 
 
I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal
might look like...

Looks great! I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =) By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)

-1 - The standard should be that the code is readable. If that is the case, who cares where the braces are. This is the stuff of pedantic flamewars that have no logical conclusion. -Andy
Jun 11 2002
next sibling parent reply "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
news:3D05ED45.8060906 apache.org...

 -1 - The standard should be that the code is readable.  If that is the
 case, who cares where the braces are.  This is the stuff of pedantic
 flamewars that have no logical conclusion.

Yep, you are right. But who decides whether the code is readable or not? I say, some sort of guidelines (not even strict rules) for this purpose would be nice to have.
Jun 11 2002
parent reply andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
 
 Yep, you are right. But who decides whether the code is readable or not?
 I say, some sort of guidelines (not even strict rules) for this purpose
 would be
 nice to have.
 
 

No.. Flamewars on brackets have no conclusion and are never productive. Readibility is subjective, but then again, one can comply with such guidelines to the letter and produce horrible unreadible code. Whats the goal? Push your bracketing standard on the world (hasn't worked for the last 30 or so years, but your incarnation of this flamewar will be different...really!), or make sure the code is helpful and readible? If the subjective consideration is the goal, go directly to the subjective consideration. If you just really have to have the machine-generated code view, then employ the use of a code formatter. -Andy
Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
I say the most pragmatic policy is: if the editors who review a peice can
read it without tearing out their eyeballs, then we let it go. Otherwise
minimal judicious editing may be performed.

Please remember guys, that magazines have their own restrictions in code
format. You cannot have very long lines (since they do not render well in
print/online) and blank lines are elided for brevity.

Let's stop worrying about this issue. We will not foist "my", "your" or
"his" standard on anyone, but will just have a part of the standards
spectrum within which we can be fluid.

Let's focus on article ideas!!??

Matthew

"andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
news:3D060B9B.90700 apache.org...
 Yep, you are right. But who decides whether the code is readable or not?
 I say, some sort of guidelines (not even strict rules) for this purpose
 would be
 nice to have.

No.. Flamewars on brackets have no conclusion and are never productive. Readibility is subjective, but then again, one can comply with such guidelines to the letter and produce horrible unreadible code. Whats the goal? Push your bracketing standard on the world (hasn't worked for the last 30 or so years, but your incarnation of this flamewar will be different...really!), or make sure the code is helpful and readible? If the subjective consideration is the goal, go directly to the subjective consideration. If you just really have to have the machine-generated code view, then employ the use of a code formatter. -Andy

Jun 11 2002
parent reply andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
Matthew Wilson wrote:
 I say the most pragmatic policy is: if the editors who review a peice can
 read it without tearing out their eyeballs, then we let it go. Otherwise
 minimal judicious editing may be performed.
 
 Please remember guys, that magazines have their own restrictions in code
 format. You cannot have very long lines (since they do not render well in
 print/online) and blank lines are elided for brevity.
 
 Let's stop worrying about this issue. We will not foist "my", "your" or
 "his" standard on anyone, but will just have a part of the standards
 spectrum within which we can be fluid.
 
 Let's focus on article ideas!!??
 

Thoughts... Cover the basics: 0. Hello D 1. Networking APIs in D 2. Threading in D 3. A simple Servlet engine in D (not to long ago this was done for C++ in Doctor Dobbs..don't remember which issue) 4. Using and/or wrapping a C API with D 5. A reprint or similar article to Walter's DDJ article. 6. Where/When to use D (once it baked a bit more) -Andy
 Matthew
 
 "andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
 news:3D060B9B.90700 apache.org...
 
Yep, you are right. But who decides whether the code is readable or not?
I say, some sort of guidelines (not even strict rules) for this purpose
would be
nice to have.

No.. Flamewars on brackets have no conclusion and are never productive. Readibility is subjective, but then again, one can comply with such guidelines to the letter and produce horrible unreadible code. Whats the goal? Push your bracketing standard on the world (hasn't worked for the last 30 or so years, but your incarnation of this flamewar will be different...really!), or make sure the code is helpful and readible? If the subjective consideration is the goal, go directly to the subjective consideration. If you just really have to have the machine-generated code view, then employ the use of a code formatter. -Andy


Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Andrew" <crxace13 comcast.net> writes:
andy wrote: 
| 
| Thoughts...
| 
| Cover the basics:
| 
| 0. Hello D
| 1. Networking APIs in D
| 2. Threading in D
| 3. A simple Servlet engine in D (not to long ago this was done for C++ 
| in Doctor Dobbs..don't remember which issue)
| 4. Using and/or wrapping a C API with D
| 5. A reprint or similar article to Walter's DDJ article.
| 6. Where/When to use D (once it baked a bit more)
| 
| -Andy

What say you to including a Learning to Program "with D" section?
A section that nurtures curiosities about programming and more
specifically about learning to program "with D." This could help
those that are curious to grow alongside the language, and
eventually can spin off into something larger (say a book maybe?)
Would this be too tedious a task? 

----------------------------
Andrew C. Edwards
"The heights that great men reached and kept, were not attained
by sudden flight.  But they, whilst their companion slept, kept toiling
upwards through the night" - Anonymous
Jun 11 2002
parent andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
 What say you to including a Learning to Program "with D" section?
 A section that nurtures curiosities about programming and more
 specifically about learning to program "with D." This could help
 those that are curious to grow alongside the language, and
 eventually can spin off into something larger (say a book maybe?)
 Would this be too tedious a task? 
 

http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/cgi-local/pragprog?TheDLanguage
 ----------------------------
 Andrew C. Edwards
 "The heights that great men reached and kept, were not attained
 by sudden flight.  But they, whilst their companion slept, kept toiling
 upwards through the night" - Anonymous
 

Jun 12 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
I agree, some of the code will probably be coming out of other programs
people have done. They don't want to have to re-style there work again. It's
just extra work.

"andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
news:3D05ED45.8060906 apache.org...
 Pavel Minayev wrote:
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...


I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal
might look like...

Looks great! I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =) By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)

-1 - The standard should be that the code is readable. If that is the case, who cares where the braces are. This is the stuff of pedantic flamewars that have no logical conclusion. -Andy

Jun 11 2002
parent reply andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
anderson wrote:
 I agree, some of the code will probably be coming out of other programs
 people have done. They don't want to have to re-style there work again. It's
 just extra work.

#define I genericPerson #define you genericPersonNotEqualToI Good point. I wouldn't do it. So the question becomes. I port the java servlet API over to D and launch cool website X under D and its fast and everyone loves it and its achieving widespread adoption of the language. You're like "Wow can you write an article for the journal". I'm like "sure why not". I write a wonderful inciteful article (like walter's in Doctor Dobbs that got me interested in D), and employ code samples from my servlet API. You're like "Wow that's great!" Then you notice that I use if (request != NULL) { // do something } instead of your standard of if (request != NULL) { } You ask me to change it. I ask if its readible and understandable. you say yes, but it doesn't conform to our somewhat arbitrary guidelines. I I don't have time or feel like it and gee you're not paying for it anyhow, how dare you enforce arbitrary pedantic rules on me (you have to pay to do that ;-) ). You get letters from all sorts of folks saying "Gee D is great if it just had a Servlet API, I could ditch Java, C, C# and C++ and use it". . . Do you publish the article or squelch it on your pedantic consideration? So there you have why the subjective consideration of "is this source readible to the average joe with C, C++ or Java skills" .. if it is... well... -Andy
 "andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
 news:3D05ED45.8060906 apache.org...
 
Pavel Minayev wrote:

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...



I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal
might look like...

Looks great! I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =) By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)

-1 - The standard should be that the code is readable. If that is the case, who cares where the braces are. This is the stuff of pedantic flamewars that have no logical conclusion. -Andy


Jun 11 2002
next sibling parent reply "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
news:3D060E26.60001 apache.org...

 samples from my servlet API.  You're like "Wow that's great!" Then you
 notice that I use

 if (request != NULL) {
   // do something
 }

 instead of your standard of

 if (request != NULL)
 {

 }

 You ask me to change it.  I ask if its readible and understandable.  you

No, I don't. I run a program which does it automatically. No need for you to worry. =)
Jun 11 2002
parent andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
You ask me to change it.  I ask if its readible and understandable.  you

No, I don't. I run a program which does it automatically. No need for you to worry. =)

Which is exactly the point. Its you're issue (in every sense of the word). If you're the editor, and you're doing the work. Format it as you like. No need for a long flamewar on brackets unless you really enjoy that sort of thing (in which case, have fun, but after like 30 years I'd think that particular flamewar would be old). -Andy
Jun 11 2002
prev sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
touche

Now, Andy, let's have that article. :)

"andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
news:3D060E26.60001 apache.org...
 anderson wrote:
 I agree, some of the code will probably be coming out of other programs
 people have done. They don't want to have to re-style there work again.


 just extra work.

#define I genericPerson #define you genericPersonNotEqualToI Good point. I wouldn't do it. So the question becomes. I port the java servlet API over to D and launch cool website X under D and its fast and everyone loves it and its achieving widespread adoption of the language. You're like "Wow can you write an article for the journal". I'm like "sure why not". I write a wonderful inciteful article (like walter's in Doctor Dobbs that got me interested in D), and employ code samples from my servlet API. You're like "Wow that's great!" Then you notice that I use if (request != NULL) { // do something } instead of your standard of if (request != NULL) { } You ask me to change it. I ask if its readible and understandable. you say yes, but it doesn't conform to our somewhat arbitrary guidelines. I I don't have time or feel like it and gee you're not paying for it anyhow, how dare you enforce arbitrary pedantic rules on me (you have to pay to do that ;-) ). You get letters from all sorts of folks saying "Gee D is great if it just had a Servlet API, I could ditch Java, C, C# and C++ and use it". . . Do you publish the article or squelch it on your pedantic consideration? So there you have why the subjective consideration of "is this source readible to the average joe with C, C++ or Java skills" .. if it is... well... -Andy
 "andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
 news:3D05ED45.8060906 apache.org...

Pavel Minayev wrote:

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...



I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the





might look like...

Looks great! I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =) By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)

-1 - The standard should be that the code is readable. If that is the case, who cares where the braces are. This is the stuff of pedantic flamewars that have no logical conclusion. -Andy



Jun 11 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Pretty much agree. Let's let such things as coding standards evolve.

Obviously before code goes up, it'll have to meet some minimum level of
readability,


"andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
news:3D05ED45.8060906 apache.org...
 Pavel Minayev wrote:
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...


I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal
might look like...

Looks great! I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =) By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)

-1 - The standard should be that the code is readable. If that is the case, who cares where the braces are. This is the stuff of pedantic flamewars that have no logical conclusion. -Andy

Jun 11 2002
prev sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Largely agree. Let's let these things evolve.

Before code goes up, it will clearly have to meet some minimum standard of
readability, but other than that ...

One idea is that we might have an "Obfuscated D" column, borrowing from C++
Journal, wherein all those terse guys can have fun

I am much more interested in getting substantive content than in worrying
too much about coding standards. A D common standard will likely evolve on
the newsgroup and on the mag, so let's follow the prime directive ... :)


"andy" <acoliver apache.org> wrote in message
news:3D05ED45.8060906 apache.org...
 Pavel Minayev wrote:
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...


I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal
might look like...

Looks great! I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =) By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the site, like where to put braces etc... =)

-1 - The standard should be that the code is readable. If that is the case, who cares where the braces are. This is the stuff of pedantic flamewars that have no logical conclusion. -Andy

Jun 11 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar
 (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =)

I wrote in all the highlighting by hand on this occasion, but I have also rewritten a certain D sample program so that it emits code that is css-able (uses spans instead of font tags). The colo(u)r values came from the aforementioned sample program...
 By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standards for the
 site, like where to put braces etc... =)

As far as code style goes, along as it compiles (if included as a part of a full program) then that's OK, we could always have a section in the journal dedicated to discussing (read "arguing" if you like) the merits of different styles. IMO, discussions about coding style amongst seasoned programmers are pointless, as we'll never change now that when we press enter is a reflex not a conscious decision. But on the other hand, a good debate is always good for the newcomers. Alix Pexton...
Jun 11 2002
next sibling parent "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c2114d$7ed77a80$834a7ad5 jpswm...

 I wrote in all the highlighting by hand on this occasion, but I have also
 rewritten a certain D sample program so that it emits code that is

 (uses spans instead of font tags). The colo(u)r values came from the
 aforementioned sample program...

Heh... I should have updated it looong ago. Yes, I've seen your HTML code. By the way, source code formatter and HTML generator could in fact be one single program. I should think about this...
Jun 11 2002
prev sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Alix makes a good point.

I say leave submitter's code as it is (within the restrictions of
readability, printability) which is also a matter of respect. However there
is no reason why we cannot have a "style" column, for the edification of
newbies.

Have I just thought of another column ... ???


"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c2114d$7ed77a80$834a7ad5 jpswm...
 I wonder how was this piece of code made? The colors look very familiar
 (in fact, those are my preferences in Visual C++ editor)... =)

I wrote in all the highlighting by hand on this occasion, but I have also rewritten a certain D sample program so that it emits code that is

 (uses spans instead of font tags). The colo(u)r values came from the
 aforementioned sample program...

 By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standards for the
 site, like where to put braces etc... =)

As far as code style goes, along as it compiles (if included as a part of

 full program) then that's OK, we could always have a section in the

 dedicated to discussing (read "arguing" if you like) the merits of
 different styles.

 IMO, discussions about coding style amongst seasoned programmers are
 pointless, as we'll never change now that when we press enter is a reflex
 not a
 conscious decision. But on the other hand, a good debate is always good

 the newcomers.

 Alix Pexton...

Jun 11 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the
 site, like where to put braces etc... =)

I just thought of a novel new solution to the problem with code formatting in the journal... We (which would probably mean me) could right a javascript code formatter that loaded the individual's preferences from a cookie. Everyone is happy because code only has to be written once, but will look just like every one prefers... I think it is possible, but not necessarily easy... Alix Pexton...
Jun 11 2002
next sibling parent reply "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c2116c$7555e9a0$48957ad5 jpswm...

 We (which would probably mean me) could right a javascript code formatter
 that loaded the individual's preferences from a cookie. Everyone is happy
 because code only has to be written once, but will look just like every

 prefers...

Write a JavaScript code formatter? This means both lexer and parser _very_ slow... we could then put "best viewed on Athlon 1GHz or higher" logo on the site. =) Maybe a server-side script could be better idea, but anyhow, does it worth it? As long as the code is readable, I personally don't care much of whether there are braces or not; thus, preformatting the code, making it more readable, before putting it to the site, seems a better idea to me.
Jun 11 2002
next sibling parent andy <acoliver apache.org> writes:
 
 Write a JavaScript code formatter? This means both lexer and parser _very_
 slow... we could then put "best viewed on Athlon 1GHz or higher" logo on
 the site. =)
 
 Maybe a server-side script could be better idea, but anyhow, does it worth
 it? As long as the code is readable, I personally don't care much of whether
 there are braces or not; thus, preformatting the code, making it more
 readable, before putting it to the site, seems a better idea to me.
 
 

Agreed. -Andy
Jun 11 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> writes:
How big would the source on the site be?  Not very big.

Java isn't *that* slow.  ;)

Beside D was built from the ground up to be easy to parse.  This would be a
good test.

Sean

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:ae5egb$317g$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c2116c$7555e9a0$48957ad5 jpswm...

 We (which would probably mean me) could right a javascript code


 that loaded the individual's preferences from a cookie. Everyone is


 because code only has to be written once, but will look just like every

 prefers...

Write a JavaScript code formatter? This means both lexer and parser _very_ slow... we could then put "best viewed on Athlon 1GHz or higher" logo on the site. =) Maybe a server-side script could be better idea, but anyhow, does it worth it? As long as the code is readable, I personally don't care much of

 there are braces or not; thus, preformatting the code, making it more
 readable, before putting it to the site, seems a better idea to me.

Jun 11 2002
parent "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ae5g9k$1nj$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 How big would the source on the site be?  Not very big.

 Java isn't *that* slow.  ;)

Java isn't. JavaScript is. =)
Jun 12 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Agreed

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:ae5egb$317g$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c2116c$7555e9a0$48957ad5 jpswm...

 We (which would probably mean me) could right a javascript code


 that loaded the individual's preferences from a cookie. Everyone is


 because code only has to be written once, but will look just like every

 prefers...

Write a JavaScript code formatter? This means both lexer and parser _very_ slow... we could then put "best viewed on Athlon 1GHz or higher" logo on the site. =) Maybe a server-side script could be better idea, but anyhow, does it worth it? As long as the code is readable, I personally don't care much of

 there are braces or not; thus, preformatting the code, making it more
 readable, before putting it to the site, seems a better idea to me.

Jun 11 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 Write a JavaScript code formatter? This means both lexer and parser

 slow... we could then put "best viewed on Athlon 1GHz or higher" logo on
 the site. =)

I've done a bit of thinking, and I think it is possible to format code in a variety of styles based only on how many spaces/tabs/returns to place before or after certain symbols ( "(", ")", "{", "}", "[", "]", ",", ";", ":" (perhaps a few more)) the only other thing you need to track is the nesting level your at. It wouldn't be perfect (in some places it would be decidedly messy) but it would be quick and consistent. It would of course take for granted that the code was legal D... I also think it is entirely possible to have dynamic formatting using css alone with its handy "content" property... Perhaps we could work towards a version of d2html that included all sugar necessary to do this, it will probably triple the size of the code (program and HTML) though...
 Maybe a server-side script could be better idea, but anyhow, does it

 it? As long as the code is readable, I personally don't care much of

 there are braces or not; thus, preformatting the code, making it more
 readable, before putting it to the site, seems a better idea to me.

I don't like the idea of having a server side style formatter, but I'm not sure why, it is probably "separation of concerns" beginning to kick in at a subconscious level... I think that the best short term solution is, if it compiles and passes the "readability test" of the editors then it goes in as it is. But this brings us back to the "what is readability?" question... Alix Pexton...
Jun 12 2002
parent reply "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:
"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c21208$7ab1b4a0$52bc7ad5 jpswm...

 I think that the best short term solution is, if it compiles and passes

 "readability test" of the editors then it goes in as it is. But this

 us back to the "what is readability?" question...

You gave the answer yourself: it's when an editor consideres it "readable" (whatever it would mean). As long as most do, it is readable. =)
Jun 12 2002
parent "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> writes:
Agreed. Let's say this is the way we'll go, until we get enough hate mail to
cause a shift in re-bracing policy.

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:ae7g2c$2jdf$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c21208$7ab1b4a0$52bc7ad5 jpswm...

 I think that the best short term solution is, if it compiles and passes

 "readability test" of the editors then it goes in as it is. But this

 us back to the "what is readability?" question...

You gave the answer yourself: it's when an editor consideres it "readable" (whatever it would mean). As long as most do, it is readable. =)

Jun 12 2002
prev sibling parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Too much effort, for too little payback.

Let's focus on content

"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c2116c$7555e9a0$48957ad5 jpswm...
 By the way, I guess we'll need some kind of coding standarts for the
 site, like where to put braces etc... =)

I just thought of a novel new solution to the problem with code formatting in the journal... We (which would probably mean me) could right a javascript code formatter that loaded the individual's preferences from a cookie. Everyone is happy because code only has to be written once, but will look just like every

 prefers...

 I think it is possible, but not necessarily easy...

 Alix Pexton...

Jun 11 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c210a2$3ac60ec0$e1257ad5 jpswm...
 I'm still alive, so I attached a very simple mockup of what the journal
 might look like...

I think it looks great! Some comments: 1) It should have it's own look and logo, not the Digital Mars one. I like the one you put together. 2) Setting up the text so people will find it quickly searching via Google means that the strings "D programming language" and "programming language D" need to be worked into the text somehow, preferably inside a header tag. 3) It'll need a "site search" dialog box. The Atomz one works well and is free. 4) It should be accessible for people who need html-to-speech synthesizers. I don't remember all the rules for that, but the basic ones are: a) the html tag should specify the language, i.e. <html lang="en"> b) all img tags should have alt text specifying what the image is. c) href links should have title sections giving a description of where the link goes to. The effect of this under Explorer is to have little yellow tooltips pop up over the links. d) all table tags should have a summary description. 5) the (4) rules also have the nice side effect of the web indexing robots can do a better job indexing the material. 6) At least the home page should be constructed with an eye towards fast downloads (under 5 seconds) for people with dialup accounts. I think your mockup design is well within that goal. 7) Yes, Digital Mars web pages set a bad example and break every one of those rules <g>. Thanks! -Walter
Jun 15 2002
parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
Walter <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in article
<aeeq9v$1ruq$1 digitaldaemon.com>...
 Some comments:
 
 1) It should have it's own look and logo, not the Digital Mars one. I

 the one you put together.

The Official D Logo thing was a side issue, Wasn't really planning on using it in the page banner, just as a brand. Java has that little "Duke" guy, Delphi has the marble head, something like that for D would give all D related sites a familiar feel...
 2) Setting up the text so people will find it quickly searching via

 means that the strings "D programming language" and "programming language

 need to be worked into the text somehow, preferably inside a header tag.

I was planning something like that...
 3) It'll need a "site search" dialog box. The Atomz one works well and is
 free.

Searching will be there eventually, when there is enough material to search through...
 4) It should be accessible for people who need html-to-speech

 I don't remember all the rules for that, but the basic ones are:
     a) the html tag should specify the language, i.e. <html lang="en">
     b) all img tags should have alt text specifying what the image is.
     c) href links should have title sections giving a description of

 the link goes to. The effect of this under Explorer is to have little

 tooltips pop up over the links.
     d) all table tags should have a summary description.
 
 5) the (4) rules also have the nice side effect of the web indexing

 can do a better job indexing the material.

The Sampler I posted was not representative of the HTML work I usually do, it was a quick mock up with just the bare bones...
 6) At least the home page should be constructed with an eye towards fast
 downloads (under 5 seconds) for people with dialup accounts. I think your
 mockup design is well within that goal.

I didn't have this in mind as a specific goal, but I agree, there won't be much on the front page, it will be visually similar to the sampler, but with all the hidden bells and whistles...
 7) Yes, Digital Mars web pages set a bad example and break every one of
 those rules <g>.

I wasn't going to say, anything... Alix Pexton...
Jun 15 2002
parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01c21471$414cb000$d6937ad5 jpswm...
 Walter <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in article
 <aeeq9v$1ruq$1 digitaldaemon.com>...
 1) It should have it's own look and logo, not the Digital Mars one. I

 the one you put together.

The Official D Logo thing was a side issue, Wasn't really planning on

 it in the page banner, just as a brand.
 Java has that little "Duke" guy, Delphi has the marble head, something

 that for D would give all D related sites a familiar feel...

Ok, now I understand what you mean. How about the "D Man"? BTW, I do really like the mockup page you made. -Walter
Jun 15 2002
next sibling parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> writes:
I'm no artist but you might find a use for this:

Sean

"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:aeg1vo$ctb$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message
 news:01c21471$414cb000$d6937ad5 jpswm...
 Walter <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in article
 <aeeq9v$1ruq$1 digitaldaemon.com>...
 1) It should have it's own look and logo, not the Digital Mars one. I

 the one you put together.

The Official D Logo thing was a side issue, Wasn't really planning on

 it in the page banner, just as a brand.
 Java has that little "Duke" guy, Delphi has the marble head, something

 that for D would give all D related sites a familiar feel...

Ok, now I understand what you mean. How about the "D Man"? BTW, I do really like the mockup page you made. -Walter

Jun 15 2002
parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> writes:
Here's two more (white background JPG and transparent PNG)

Sean

"Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:aeg8eg$jl6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I'm no artist but you might find a use for this:

 Sean

Jun 15 2002
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
Looks nice!

"Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:aegbkp$mm0$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Here's two more (white background JPG and transparent PNG)

 Sean

 "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
 news:aeg8eg$jl6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I'm no artist but you might find a use for this:

 Sean


Jun 15 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> writes:
 Ok, now I understand what you mean. How about the "D Man"?

I like the "D man", but I think he should have horns, I hope you see where I'm going with that...
 BTW, I do really like the mockup page you made.

This kind of praise is much appreciated... Alix Pexton...
Jun 17 2002
parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C21656.F69F9FD0"


------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C21656.F69F9FD0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don't know if you mean that literally or not, but here's a MR D(evil) =
with horns. ;)




"Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message =
news:01c215e7$bfc850c0$f2517ad5 jpswm...
 Ok, now I understand what you mean. How about the "D Man"?

I like the "D man", but I think he should have horns, I hope you see =

 I'm going with that...
=20
 BTW, I do really like the mockup page you made.

This kind of praise is much appreciated... =20 Alix Pexton...

------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C21656.F69F9FD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't know if you mean that literally = or not, but=20 here's a MR D(evil) with horns. ;)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><IMG alt=3D"Mr D" hspace=3D0=20 src=3D"cid:000b01c21613$e86d1d90$2273a1cb faster" align=3Dbaseline = border=3D0></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Alix Pexton" &lt;</FONT><A=20 href=3D"mailto:Alix seven-point-star.co.uk"><FONT face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>Alix seven-point-star.co.uk</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>&gt; wrote=20 in message </FONT><A = href=3D"news:01c215e7$bfc850c0$f2517ad5 jpswm"><FONT=20 face=3DArial = size=3D2>news:01c215e7$bfc850c0$f2517ad5 jpswm</FONT></A><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; = &gt; Ok, now I=20 understand what you mean. How about the "D Man"?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I like = the "D=20 man", but I think he should have horns, I hope you see where<BR>&gt; I'm = going=20 with that...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; BTW, I do really like the mockup page = you=20 made.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This kind of praise is much = appreciated...<BR>&gt;=20 <BR>&gt; Alix Pexton...</FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C21656.F69F9FD0--
Jun 17 2002
next sibling parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oh, I love this! ROFL! -Walter

  "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> wrote in message =
news:aekuu7$27rd$1 digitaldaemon.com...
  I don't know if you mean that literally or not, but here's a MR =
D(evil) with horns. ;)




------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C215EE.CE93D5F0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oh, I love this! ROFL! =
-Walter</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"anderson" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:anderson firestar.com.au">anderson firestar.com.au</A>&gt;=
 wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:aekuu7$27rd$1 digitaldaemon.com">news:aekuu7$27rd$1 digitald=
aemon.com</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't know if you mean that =
literally or not,=20
  but here's a MR D(evil) with horns. ;)</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><IMG alt=3D"Mr D" hspace=3D0=20
  src=3D"cid:000a01c21629$7af03cf0$0400a8c0 colossus" align=3Dbaseline=20
  border=3D0></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Jun 17 2002
parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
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  "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message =
news:ael823$1bp$1 digitaldaemon.com...
  Oh, I love this! ROFL! -Walter

What the devil are you talking about?

ROFL?
Jun 17 2002
parent "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
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R.O.F.L. =3D Rolling On Floor Laughing
  "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> wrote in message =
news:ael98q$328$1 digitaldaemon.com...

    "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message =
news:ael823$1bp$1 digitaldaemon.com...
    Oh, I love this! ROFL! -Walter

  What the devil are you talking about?

  ROFL?
Jun 17 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <mwilson thedjournal.com> writes:
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Very bad. Very good. :)
  "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> wrote in message =
news:aekuu7$27rd$1 digitaldaemon.com...
  I don't know if you mean that literally or not, but here's a MR =
D(evil) with horns. ;)




  "Alix Pexton" <Alix seven-point-star.co.uk> wrote in message =
news:01c215e7$bfc850c0$f2517ad5 jpswm...
  > > Ok, now I understand what you mean. How about the "D Man"?
  >=20
  > I like the "D man", but I think he should have horns, I hope you see =
where
  > I'm going with that...
  >=20
  > > BTW, I do really like the mockup page you made.
  >=20
  > This kind of praise is much appreciated...
  >=20
  > Alix Pexton...=20

------=_NextPart_001_0035_01C216AC.67E593C0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#b6fcee>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Very bad. Very good. :)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"anderson" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:anderson firestar.com.au">anderson firestar.com.au</A>&gt;=
 wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:aekuu7$27rd$1 digitaldaemon.com">news:aekuu7$27rd$1 digitald=
aemon.com</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't know if you mean that =
literally or not,=20
  but here's a MR D(evil) with horns. ;)</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><IMG alt=3D"Mr D" hspace=3D0=20
  src=3D"cid:002f01c21658$962fe6d0$0764640a nextgengaming.com" =
align=3Dbaseline=20
  border=3D0></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"Alix Pexton" &lt;</FONT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Alix seven-point-star.co.uk"><FONT face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>Alix seven-point-star.co.uk</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  wrote in message </FONT><A =
href=3D"news:01c215e7$bfc850c0$f2517ad5 jpswm"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial =
size=3D2>news:01c215e7$bfc850c0$f2517ad5 jpswm</FONT></A><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; =
&gt; Ok, now I=20
  understand what you mean. How about the "D Man"?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I =
like the=20
  "D man", but I think he should have horns, I hope you see =
where<BR>&gt; I'm=20
  going with that...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; BTW, I do really like the =
mockup page=20
  you made.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This kind of praise is much =
appreciated...<BR>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; Alix Pexton...</FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Jun 17 2002
parent reply "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
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I think it needs a pitch fork and a tail. And in that pose, Mr D should =
have been a ballerina.

Any other suggestions (ie should the eyes be smaller)?
Horns don't look that good what can I do here?

Should I keep Mr D in his devil form for all acts, or should that simply =
be one of his costumes?
Jun 17 2002
next sibling parent "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0059_01C216B2.92C10BF0"


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And here that is,




But things are not so funny the second time round so I'll stop posting =
here and you'll have to look out for him in the D Journal. Unless of =
course you would like to suggest some improvements to the model itself =
because his shap becomes set in stone.



  "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> wrote in message =
news:aem10r$q8b$1 digitaldaemon.com...
  I think it needs a pitch fork and a tail. And in that pose, Mr D =
should have been a ballerina.

  Any other suggestions (ie should the eyes be smaller)?
  Horns don't look that good what can I do here?

  Should I keep Mr D in his devil form for all acts, or should that =
simply be one of his costumes?

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And here that is,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:005301c2166f$84822da0$dc73a1cb faster" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But things are not so funny the second =
time round=20
so I'll stop posting here and you'll have to look out for him in the D =
Journal.=20
Unless of course you would like to suggest some improvements to the =
model itself=20
because his shap becomes set in stone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"anderson" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:anderson firestar.com.au">anderson firestar.com.au</A>&gt;=
 wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:aem10r$q8b$1 digitaldaemon.com">news:aem10r$q8b$1 digitaldae=
mon.com</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think it needs a pitch fork and a =
tail. And in=20
  that pose, Mr D should have been a ballerina.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any other suggestions (ie should the =
eyes be=20
  smaller)?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Horns don't look that good what can I =
do=20
  here?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Should I keep Mr D in his devil form =
for all=20
  acts, or should that simply be one of his=20
costumes?</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_001_0059_01C216B2.92C10BF0--
Jun 17 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> writes:
He could also be "Mr. D(ependable)"

or

"Mr. D(eveloper)"

or whatever

Sean

===========================
"anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> wrote in message
news:aem10r$q8b$1 digitaldaemon.com...
I think it needs a pitch fork and a tail. And in that pose, Mr D should have
been a ballerina.

Any other suggestions (ie should the eyes be smaller)?
Horns don't look that good what can I do here?

Should I keep Mr D in his devil form for all acts, or should that simply be
one of his costumes?
Jun 17 2002
parent "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
Good Idea.

"Sean L. Palmer" <seanpalmer earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:aemfgt$1898$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 He could also be "Mr. D(ependable)"
 or

 "Mr. D(eveloper)"
 or whatever

 Sean

Jun 18 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
news:adsub1$cuh$2 digitaldaemon.com...
 Site design sounds great (as does proof reading). Are you experienced in
 this? Do you have any sites we can take a look at? I would think we'd want
 to have a similar (though, of course, superior) site to the cmp sites
 (wdj.com, cuj.com, etc.) though without all the advertising clutter.

Accepting advertising might actually be a good idea, to defray some of the costs with running the site. If the ads were of interest to D programmers, and were not obnoxious flashing, pop over, pop under, etc., I think they'd be fine. After all, I many times buy a computer mag just to read all the ads to see what interesting new programming products are out there.
Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
I don't have a major philosophical objection to such things, and envisaged
that we would eventually do that. It's just that we'd have to be a
fully-fledged commercial entity to accept paid advertising, and I thought we
might leave that until we've been running a couple of issues first.

Thoughts?

(btw, it is in my medium term plan that we do become a proper commercial
mag, published in paper as well as on-line, but I think we need to take
small steps ...)

"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:ae5gg0$1uo$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
 news:adsub1$cuh$2 digitaldaemon.com...
 Site design sounds great (as does proof reading). Are you experienced in
 this? Do you have any sites we can take a look at? I would think we'd


 to have a similar (though, of course, superior) site to the cmp sites
 (wdj.com, cuj.com, etc.) though without all the advertising clutter.

Accepting advertising might actually be a good idea, to defray some of the costs with running the site. If the ads were of interest to D programmers, and were not obnoxious flashing, pop over, pop under, etc., I think they'd be fine. After all, I many times buy a computer mag just to read all the

 to see what interesting new programming products are out there.

Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
news:ae5r01$d47$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I don't have a major philosophical objection to such things, and envisaged
 that we would eventually do that. It's just that we'd have to be a
 fully-fledged commercial entity to accept paid advertising, and I thought

 might leave that until we've been running a couple of issues first.

 Thoughts?

 (btw, it is in my medium term plan that we do become a proper commercial
 mag, published in paper as well as on-line, but I think we need to take
 small steps ...)

Whenever you're ready, you should get a business license for it. "ready" is probably defined as when a suitable paying advertiser appears <g>. In any case, keeping track of your expenses is a good idea. Once a couple of issues exist, you can approach the paying advertisers in CUJ, etc., and see if they want to participate.
Jun 11 2002
parent "Matthew Wilson" <dm synesis-group.com> writes:
Sounds like a plan.

"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:ae63b0$lha$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
 news:ae5r01$d47$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I don't have a major philosophical objection to such things, and


 that we would eventually do that. It's just that we'd have to be a
 fully-fledged commercial entity to accept paid advertising, and I


 we
 might leave that until we've been running a couple of issues first.

 Thoughts?

 (btw, it is in my medium term plan that we do become a proper commercial
 mag, published in paper as well as on-line, but I think we need to take
 small steps ...)

Whenever you're ready, you should get a business license for it. "ready"

 probably defined as when a suitable paying advertiser appears <g>. In any
 case, keeping track of your expenses is a good idea. Once a couple of

 exist, you can approach the paying advertisers in CUJ, etc., and see if

 want to participate.

Jun 11 2002
prev sibling parent "anderson" <anderson firestar.com.au> writes:
Maybe someone has already mentioned these ideas already. I like what they
did is some of the VB (now VS) mags that had small tips and tricks spread
across the book. Of coarse there should also be some central place for T&T
some they can be easly found. Also (as most mags have) a Q&A section (but
that's what this newsgroups for). And how about, a best of newsgroup answers
section.

I'd like to contribute, but at the moment at least I don't have time.

My experiance is amateurish. I've been programming since I was 7 for about
14 years. I started using GW-BASIC, but progressed though to pascal, VB,
ADA, C, Java, C++. At the moment I'm a third year doing computer science.
But don't let that get you down, as I'm basicly just doing It to get the
degree and pick up some industrual standards (which arn't taught in books).
I'm in the top 5% of my uni.

Joel Anderson

"Matthew Wilson" <matthewatd hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ads2mo$26r4$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Walter

 What I was thinking of was a fully-fledged magazine, probably bi-monthly,
 which had the following features:

 A notes section (very small tips, one-liners) - 4-8 per issue
 A tips section (400-800 words) - 3-5 per issue
 An articles section (2000-4000 words) 2-3 per issue
 A "Word from Walter" column
 An FAQ column, whereby readers questions would be answered by the D

 Two more columns that would alternate (at a rate as deemed by the separate
 subject areas and the number of contributors) between a number of major D
 subject areas. Areas would include Windows development, realtime, other
 platforms, performance, etc.

 To do this we would need the following resources

 1 or 2 people to do the web-design & graphics & layout the articles
 at least 3 (preferably 5 or 6) technical editors for reviewing &

 submissions, as well as providing answers to the FAQ column
 1 or 2 supervising editors, arbitrating between article ideas, checking
 readability etc.
 Walter
 Someone to run the FAQ column (possibly including taking the most worthy
 items from the news group in times of Q drought)

 I guess once we have it up and running we _could_ get advertising and all
 that evil nonsense if there was a need, but I would have thought with a

 committed volunteers we could manage quite nicely.

 If there is enough interest I am sure we could make this into a valuable
 resource, for the promulgation of D to the thirsty folks who are currently
 starting to drink the sand ( === .NET :)

 So, any interest? Please shout up if you think it's (i) a good idea, (ii)

 bad idea; (iii) you would like to volunteer for one of the roles. Also, if
 you think there are other features and/or roles, please speak up.

 I have pre-emptively registered djournal.net and thedjournal.com
 (djournal.com is taken) in case we have interest. (I can cancel these in

 next 72 hours if everyone thinks it is a bad idea, but it's not, is it ...
 ??? ;)

 Matthew


 "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
 news:adqq49$tpq$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I've thought about doing a web page with the "best of" from this

 but I don't have the time to do it. Do you want to?

 "Matthew Wilson" <mwilson nextgengaming.com> wrote in message
 news:adpgtm$2ja6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Has anyone thought of our starting a "D journal", presumably initially


 a
 web-site?

 Does anyone think this is worth pursuing, or is it a little premature?
 Perhaps waiting until ver 1 is released?

 Thought ... ?



Jun 08 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Just to give an update. I've had a lot of responses already, but most people
are claiming (along with myself) to not being sufficiently qualified to be a
tech-editor. I think we may want to consider being a bit less formal here,
and perhaps one way would be to solicit for tech-editors on a case-by-case
basis, until we build up a regular bunch.

btw, can everyone who volunteers for any kind of duty also email me via
dmd synesis.com.au.

Thanks

Matthew


"Matthew Wilson" <mwilson nextgengaming.com> wrote in message
news:adpgtm$2ja6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Has anyone thought of our starting a "D journal", presumably initially as

 web-site?

 Does anyone think this is worth pursuing, or is it a little premature?
 Perhaps waiting until ver 1 is released?

 Thought ... ?

Jun 08 2002
parent Andy Walker <Andy_member pathlink.com> writes:
In article <adurjv$28cj$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Matthew Wilson says...
Just to give an update. I've had a lot of responses already, but most people
are claiming (along with myself) to not being sufficiently qualified to be a
tech-editor. I think we may want to consider being a bit less formal here,
and perhaps one way would be to solicit for tech-editors on a case-by-case
basis, until we build up a regular bunch.

I will also volunteer to write articles. When I think of something interesting, I will add it to my topics list. I volunteer as a tech-editor. There are probably only two or three people in the Universe qualified as tech-editors for Bright D. I prefer to have Walter working on the compiler and language. I am NOT an expert on Bright D. However, I know a lot of languages well enough to make really ugly mistakes in all of them, but I am willing to look at and evaluate whatever I get.
btw, can everyone who volunteers for any kind of duty also email me via
dmd synesis.com.au.

Will do.
Thanks

Matthew


"Matthew Wilson" <mwilson nextgengaming.com> wrote in message
news:adpgtm$2ja6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Has anyone thought of our starting a "D journal", presumably initially as

 web-site?

 Does anyone think this is worth pursuing, or is it a little premature?
 Perhaps waiting until ver 1 is released?

 Thought ... ?


Andy Walker
Jun 09 2002
prev sibling next sibling parent reply "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
We are getting lots of interest in this. Thanks for that all you guys

I'll let it run until the weekend, and then count up the volunteers and
suggestions, and post a tentative plan for the first issue.

Thanks again. I think this is going to be fun and educational for all of us

Matthew
Jun 11 2002
parent reply "Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:
"Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
news:ae4pai$2apu$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Thanks again. I think this is going to be fun and educational for all of

I'm thrilled that this is happening. This magazine will be a great step forward for D. -Walter
Jun 11 2002
parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Thrilled here too!

"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:ae5gg1$1uo$2 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> wrote in message
 news:ae4pai$2apu$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Thanks again. I think this is going to be fun and educational for all of

I'm thrilled that this is happening. This magazine will be a great step forward for D. -Walter

Jun 11 2002
prev sibling parent reply "Brander Lien" <brander mnemonic.net> writes:
I realize you are waiting up to the weekend, so I wanted to get my voice out
before then.  I'd love to help in any capacity I can, perhaps you'll come up
with a positions to fill roster and I could fall into something =)

-b

"Matthew Wilson" <mwilson nextgengaming.com> wrote in message
news:adpgtm$2ja6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Has anyone thought of our starting a "D journal", presumably initially as

 web-site?

 Does anyone think this is worth pursuing, or is it a little premature?
 Perhaps waiting until ver 1 is released?

 Thought ... ?

Jun 13 2002
parent "Matthew Wilson" <dmd synesis.com.au> writes:
Excellent Brander.

Thanks for sending me en email as well - that helps a lot in my sorting out
things.

Can I be personal, and ask you drop me a line with the briefest of resumes,
ie. just what you're up to, and how you'd see yourself helping (eg. tech
editor, article/tip/note/opinion-piece contributor, etc.)

Thanks again

Matthew

"Brander Lien" <brander mnemonic.net> wrote in message
news:aeaf06$ftu$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I realize you are waiting up to the weekend, so I wanted to get my voice

 before then.  I'd love to help in any capacity I can, perhaps you'll come

 with a positions to fill roster and I could fall into something =)

 -b

 "Matthew Wilson" <mwilson nextgengaming.com> wrote in message
 news:adpgtm$2ja6$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 Has anyone thought of our starting a "D journal", presumably initially


 a
 web-site?

 Does anyone think this is worth pursuing, or is it a little premature?
 Perhaps waiting until ver 1 is released?

 Thought ... ?


Jun 13 2002