• Pavel Minayev (2/2) Feb 07 2002 Does anybody has C#? If you do, could you please tell
• Richard Krehbiel (9/11) Feb 08 2002 Like Java, C# always and only runs code within a "virtual machine." I'm
• Sean L. Palmer (8/16) Feb 08 2002 about
• Pavel Minayev (7/11) Feb 08 2002 about
• D (6/10) Feb 10 2002 C# is not a replacement for C, but a competitor to Java.
• Mike Greenly (16/26) Feb 10 2002 You can link directly to any Windows native dll, also the Common Languag...
• Pavel Minayev (4/7) Feb 10 2002 there...
• Walter (5/12) Feb 10 2002 Language
• D (8/11) Feb 11 2002 C# and the other .net lanaguages are intended for web component and netw...
• johnwhited hotmail.com (5/19) Nov 14 2002 What does make C# unusable for systems programming is all the marshallin...
• J. Daniel Smith (6/17) Feb 11 2002 You don't (can't) do traditional Win32 API programming in C#; instead, t...
• johnwhited hotmail.com (5/26) Nov 14 2002 I'm just now browsing over the pretty stale articles here in the newsgro...
• David Crowell (24/35) Nov 14 2002 Just to clarify a bit...
• johnwhited hotmail.com (13/50) Nov 14 2002 You can actually turn off all security checking allowing even the web pa...
• Walter (3/4) Nov 15 2002 Post a list!

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:

if it has module(s) with WinAPI declarations?

"Richard Krehbiel" <rich kastle.com> writes:

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:a3ufj4$1o6d$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 if it has module(s) with WinAPI declarations?



via OLE - and you'll never ever want to code OLE in C, so just forget about
it.

--
Richard Krehbiel, Arlington, VA, USA
rich kastle.com (work) or krehbiel3 home.com (personal)

"Sean L. Palmer" <spalmer iname.com> writes:

"Richard Krehbiel" <rich kastle.com> wrote in message
news:a40njn$1r2s$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
 news:a3ufj4$1o6d$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 if it has module(s) with WinAPI declarations?



 via OLE - and you'll never ever want to code OLE in C, so just forget

about
 it.

That's not entirely true... it's supposedly *always* JIT compiled, but the

from the app load time hit for the JIT compiler.  In fact I believe this
applies to all .NET programs.

Sean

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:

"Richard Krehbiel" <rich kastle.com> wrote in message
news:a40njn$1r2s$1 digitaldaemon.com...



 via OLE - and you'll never ever want to code OLE in C, so just forget

about
 it.


windows.h and friends in C/C++ - those that have all WinAPI functions,
structures and macroses declared. I believe there are some there,
aren't they? And can you share them?

"D" <s_nudds hotmail.com> writes:

they
can access the Win32API?

Pavel Minayev <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:a419hp$2keg$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 windows.h and friends in C/C++ - those that have all WinAPI functions,
 structures and macroses declared. I believe there are some there,
 aren't they? And can you share them?

"Mike Greenly" <mike mikegreenly.com> writes:

You can link directly to any Windows native dll, also the Common Language
Runtime (Microsoft's VM) allows managed code to freely interact with
unmanaged code.  It is possible to use and manipulate unmanaged memory from



the .NET framework as your run time library the assembly created at compile
time is not native it needs the shell host (the CLR tied into the windows
shell) to load and run.


I've run across yet, but I have seen small pieces wrapped here and there...
I've even wrapped a few pieces for my own consumtion, but I would not
recomend doing it just because your not willing to learn the .Net Framework.
With no hard numbers to back it up... I'm guessing my code output has
tripled using the .Net Framework vs. C++ Standard Libs.


"D" <s_nudds hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a45fso$1mta$1 digitaldaemon.com...


 they
 can access the Win32API?

 Pavel Minayev <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
 news:a419hp$2keg$1 digitaldaemon.com...

 windows.h and friends in C/C++ - those that have all WinAPI functions,
 structures and macroses declared. I believe there are some there,
 aren't they? And can you share them?

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> writes:

"Mike Greenly" <mike mikegreenly.com> wrote in message
news:a461oc$1u00$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 You can link directly to any Windows native dll, also the Common Language


 I've run across yet, but I have seen small pieces wrapped here and

there...

"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:a46991$218s$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Mike Greenly" <mike mikegreenly.com> wrote in message
 news:a461oc$1u00$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 You can link directly to any Windows native dll, also the Common


Language

 I've run across yet, but I have seen small pieces wrapped here and

 there...




programming language.

"D" <s_nudds hotmail.com> writes:

based distributed program development.

System secutity requirements are such that Win32 API access is to be
avoided.

You can't provide security without restricting the programmer.

Do you want security?  Or do you want foolishness?

Walter <walter digitalmars.com> wrote in message
news:a46hpg$24mn$1 digitaldaemon.com...



 programming language.

johnwhited hotmail.com writes:

done between trusted and untrusted interface done via COM+. Another thing that
makes it unusable is the garbage collection. It's actually broke - since somehow
it slipped that GC allocated objects in VM should also be garbage collected. 

In article <a46hpg$24mn$1 digitaldaemon.com>, Walter says...
"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:a46991$218s$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Mike Greenly" <mike mikegreenly.com> wrote in message
 news:a461oc$1u00$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 You can link directly to any Windows native dll, also the Common


Language

 I've run across yet, but I have seen small pieces wrapped here and

 there...




programming language.

"J. Daniel Smith" <j_daniel_smith deja.com> writes:

is a whole new set of class libraries.

   Dan

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:a419hp$2keg$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Richard Krehbiel" <rich kastle.com> wrote in message
 news:a40njn$1r2s$1 digitaldaemon.com...





that's
 via OLE - and you'll never ever want to code OLE in C, so just forget

 about
 it.


 windows.h and friends in C/C++ - those that have all WinAPI functions,
 structures and macroses declared. I believe there are some there,
 aren't they? And can you share them?

johnwhited hotmail.com writes:

I'm just now browsing over the pretty stale articles here in the newsgroup.


instance, I had to bring in all the APIs for registering a service since I find
the managed interfaces to be real garbage.

In article <a48kqp$ir$1 digitaldaemon.com>, J. Daniel Smith says...

is a whole new set of class libraries.

   Dan

"Pavel Minayev" <evilone omen.ru> wrote in message
news:a419hp$2keg$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 "Richard Krehbiel" <rich kastle.com> wrote in message
 news:a40njn$1r2s$1 digitaldaemon.com...





that's
 via OLE - and you'll never ever want to code OLE in C, so just forget

 about
 it.


 windows.h and friends in C/C++ - those that have all WinAPI functions,
 structures and macroses declared. I believe there are some there,
 aren't they? And can you share them?

"David Crowell" <dave davidcrowell.com> writes:

Just to clarify a bit...


this will effect what security contexts it can run under.  You can't do it
from, say, a web application on a hosting account.  You won't have the
priveleges.

My opinion:


performance for Winforms applications is bad.  I'm used to VB (5 & 6), and
.NET Winforms applications have horrible startup times (while they are
JITed, and while the 8MB of runtime is mapped into virtual memory).

On a busy website, a pre-jitted copy is always available, and the runtime
doesn't unload from memory, so this isn't an issue.



compiler with a smaller, optional library.

Until then, I hope D matures.

Dave
www.davidcrowell.com

<johnwhited hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ar0rbp$1u1t$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I'm just now browsing over the pretty stale articles here in the

newsgroup.


For
 instance, I had to bring in all the APIs for registering a service since I

find
 the managed interfaces to be real garbage.

 In article <a48kqp$ir$1 digitaldaemon.com>, J. Daniel Smith says...



there
is a whole new set of class libraries.

   Dan

johnwhited hotmail.com writes:

You can actually turn off all security checking allowing even the web page to
run untrusted code.  Also, you can use other COM libraries that do windowing and
get reasonable performance by writing a custom marshaller that's extremely


As far as the loading/unloading behavior, the only way to even get marginal

web application.  Otherwise, it'll get finalized and unloaded as the app domain
goes away.


fat and it actually is missing some important features for what it was
originally geared (web services).

I can see several things D could add to make it much more popular.

In article <ar1cde$2gtr$1 digitaldaemon.com>, David Crowell says...
Just to clarify a bit...


this will effect what security contexts it can run under.  You can't do it
from, say, a web application on a hosting account.  You won't have the
priveleges.

My opinion:


performance for Winforms applications is bad.  I'm used to VB (5 & 6), and
.NET Winforms applications have horrible startup times (while they are
JITed, and while the 8MB of runtime is mapped into virtual memory).

On a busy website, a pre-jitted copy is always available, and the runtime
doesn't unload from memory, so this isn't an issue.



compiler with a smaller, optional library.

Until then, I hope D matures.

Dave
www.davidcrowell.com

<johnwhited hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ar0rbp$1u1t$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I'm just now browsing over the pretty stale articles here in the

newsgroup.


For
 instance, I had to bring in all the APIs for registering a service since I

find
 the managed interfaces to be real garbage.

 In article <a48kqp$ir$1 digitaldaemon.com>, J. Daniel Smith says...



there
is a whole new set of class libraries.

   Dan

"Walter" <walter digitalmars.com> writes:

<johnwhited hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ar23qu$731$1 digitaldaemon.com...
 I can see several things D could add to make it much more popular.

Post a list!